No más 4/3rds after E-5....

[raist3d]

To those who still think that more 4/3rds stuff is coming up, though Olympus has provided already plenty of evidence to the contrary, here's the latest solid as solid can be evidence:

http://www.megapixel.co.il/english/archive/14631

Specifically slide 8:

The E-5 is a stop gap until the pro-pen comes out in a couple of years. That means 2-3 years from right now (their words). I was expecting a pro spec coming out now this year (year's end). On the other hand I would expect the pro spec pen to be quite something.

To be honest, as long as the current lenses can be used, I wouldn't sweat if I was keeping my lenses and had (or not) an E-5. But wanted to point this out because I still see people who think that line is carrying on.

Olympus mentioned in another interview that making the 4/3rds lenses work in micro four theirs well is one of their top priorities. As long as they honor that, I wouldn't worry about my 4/3rd lens collection.

- Raist

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

The fact that it seems to take a couple of years before there's a "Pen pro", is a good reason to buy an E-5 for those who want to stay with 4/3 and m4/3. And there is no reason to believe that the E-5 will suddenly stop working when the Pen pro is available. I know many who still shoot happily with their E-1 cameras. I was recently informed that a photo that I took with my E-1 and the 11-22 will be used on the front page of a local magazine. If I didn't shoot for stock, I might be able to survive fine with an E-1 and the GH1. Actually, the GH1 does just fine for stock photography.

Another side of this is that Olympus won't be alone going through this process. Panasonic has already dumped all 4/3 cameras, and Samsung is, as far as I know, totally electronic. Sony has chosen another route, but a similar hybrid option is still possible for Olympus, although probably with m4/3 mount and adapters for 4/3 lenses. What Canon and Nikon will do remains to be seen, but if the market goes for smaller, cheaper cameras with electronic viewfinders, like the A55 and G2, it's only a question of time before both of them will discontinue all entry level DSLRs and replace them with something fully electronic. What will happen at the pro level remains to be seen, but the pressure is on.

 

[ptomsu]

Not sure if this in contradiction to what I heard rom my Olympus Rep. in Austria. He told me that there will be no further 43 DSLRs as Olympus will concentrate on M43, but there will always be a Pro 43 DSLR like the E5.

So if this Pro 43 DSLR is then the E7 and can also take M43 lenses, or is a pure 43 DSLR I could not care less. I am confident that Olympus will bring this as a high quality Pro camera and it will for sure top the E5 as the E5 topped the E3.

I even hope they can use a Foveon chip, which would bring them a unique position in really high resolution and true colors.

But for the moment I am perfectly happy with the E5 and lenses and for sure will produce 10000's of great images with that system over the next years.

 

[Godfrey]

once more around the merry-go-round ...

I don't care if the E-5 is the last FourThirds SLR. It's a superb camera and I'll buy a second one eventually, if my work requires it. I bought it KNOWING that it was likely the last SLR in the line. I still use my E-1 too, and will continue using it. First to last: both superb cameras supported by the best lens line in the marketplace.

FourThirds to Micro-FourThirds is a continuum. The FourThirds SLR lenses are superb and work perfectly on Micro-FourThirds bodies excepting for autofocus speed. And I don't give a damn about autofocus speed. The "Pen Pro" mentioned will be the successor to the E-5 and will take care of that. The current Pens are better cameras than the consumer grade models they replace in the line. When Olympus releases it, it will outperform the E-5, which is a damn high water mark in camera performance. This is progress, an advance to a better generation of cameras.

Anyone who didn't understand this in October when the E-5 was released and the E-XXX and E-XX bodies end of life were announced is just being dense. It's a good thing ... the Pen line of bodies outperform the consumer grade FourThirds SLR bodies in all ways excepting for autofocus speed and sequence capture. That's why they kept a professional body in the line, to keep the autofocus speed and sequence capture option available until a pro grade Pen that supplants it is achieved.

Why do you and all the other goofballs on DPR persist in trying to spread doom and gloom? in trying to pose this as a negative thing? Do you really hate Olympus that much? or are you that in love with a clumsy, 60 year old flipping mirror?

If things continue as they are now, Olympus will be the first to market with a full suite of professional to consumer grade, completely electronic imaging system cameras and a lens line to work with them that outperforms everyone else's. They'll get there before Canon, before Nikon, before Pentax, before Sony. And they'll be better performing cameras and lenses.

That's something to look forward to.

I bet Nikon and Canon are trying to figure out how to spin their lack of products in this domain ... or are busily at work in secret to try to coup Olympus on this.

 

[jonoslack]

Re: once more around the merry-go-round ...

If things continue as they are now, Olympus will be the first to market with a full suite of professional to consumer grade, completely electronic imaging system cameras and a lens line to work with them that outperforms everyone else's. They'll get there before Canon, before Nikon, before Pentax, before Sony. And they'll be better performing cameras and lenses.

Well - I quite agree - I don't think it's something to be sorry about either. I'm increasingly wondering about how Canon and Nikon can easily catch up, and it doesn't seem that Pentax are even going there. Not sure I agree about Sony - I'd rather have a Pen than a Nex anyday, but they, at least, are not sitting on their laurels - and the SLT cameras have a lot going for them too. Seems to me like Sony are taking this pretty seriously. . . . . but they're just a walkman company :ROTFL:

 

[kweide]

Agree -- just a WalkCam company

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

I saw the price of the new Canon 300mm f/2.8 today. It's around $6,500. That's just about three times the cost of a Zuiko 150mm f/2.0 which has the same reach on an E-5 as the Canon lens has on a 5DII. The price of the Zuiko is probably less than most photographer has to write off in value on the Canon lens during the first 5 years of use, so even if the Zuiko should be completely obsolete in 5 years, it's still a better investment. Actually, one can easily buy the 150/2.0, the 35-100/2.0 and the 14-35/2.0 for the price of that Canon (or the corresponding Nikon or Sony lenses).

Yes, I think that Canon and Nikon must be scratching their heads. We are entering a new era, with fully electronic cameras, cheaper and more compact, with advanced firmware that can do real-time corrections of optical data. Interestingly, Nikon has just launched the f/1.4 primes that they should have launched more than 5 years ago, each of them weighing more than a GH2 with a 20mm f/1.7. They are great lenses of course, but great for who? Those who need a 40MP D5X? Some probably have that need, but when I see what Olympus gets out of an old 12MP sensor and the tiny 50mm f/2.0, it's easy to decide that it's not me.

Which gives me a distinct feeling that further investments in Nikon cameras and lenses might be just as much a dead end as an E-5. The difference is that with the lenses for the E-5 (and for Sony), there is already a system available that can use those lenses with an adapter. Maybe not to shoot ice-hockey or other fast paced sports, but for more or less anything that this photographer needs.

 

[kweide]

Jorgen, that is exactly my thoughts. 5 years is a very long time and for my needs the E-5 fits perfect. Why bother what will happen in 5 years ?? I even don´t know what will happen tomorrow ! So i decided to stay with Olympus, save money for glass, beer and girls

Regards
Klaus
BTW: Noise was never and is no issue for me !

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Just a thought:
If Kyocera, Minolta and Fuji saw this coming 5-6 years ago, it makes it much easier to understand why they all pulled out of the DSLR business. The investments needed to play along simply couldn't be justified with the small production volume these companies had. Minolta (and Olympus) must have been thinking along those lines. Just look at the Minolta A1 and Olympus E-10; except for the sensor size and fixed lens, they are very similar to Panasonic G/GH series cameras.

 

[Godfrey]

Just a thought:
If Kyocera, Minolta and Fuji saw this coming 5-6 years ago, it makes it much easier to understand why they all pulled out of the DSLR business. The investments needed to play along simply couldn't be justified with the small production volume these companies had. Minolta (and Olympus) must have been thinking along those lines. Just look at the Minolta A1 and Olympus E-10; except for the sensor size and fixed lens, they are very similar to Panasonic G/GH series cameras.

And Panasonic, of course. Panasonic has taken a lead on delivery of higher-end mFT cameras with the G1/GH1/G2/GH2 bodies. Their FourThirds SLR bodies (L1, L10) were never produced in high volume, never really intended to sell in large quantities. They did them, I feel, as a training program, a way to get to know and work with FourThirds. They were both excellent quality performers. Panasonic knows exactly what it takes to make a top-notch FourThirds SLR lens fully compatible with a Micro-FourThirds body now ... ;-)

 

[ptomsu]

And Panasonic, of course. Panasonic has taken a lead on delivery of higher-end mFT cameras with the G1/GH1/G2/GH2 bodies. Their FourThirds SLR bodies (L1, L10) were never produced in high volume, never really intended to sell in large quantities. They did them, I feel, as a training program, a way to get to know and work with FourThirds. They were both excellent quality performers. Panasonic knows exactly what it takes to make a top-notch FourThirds SLR lens fully compatible with a Micro-FourThirds body now ... ;-)

Agree, they learned their lessons from Leica Which is good!

 

[pikme]

Just a thought:
If Kyocera, Minolta and Fuji saw this coming 5-6 years ago

I'd forgotten this, but I had a conversation with Olympus representative in 2002 in which he told me 'off the record' about the work Olympus was doing on 'live view' and mirrorless cameras with video. He told me then that Olympus was expecting DSLRs to go away in favor of mirrorless cameras, but it all seemed so futuristic to me - like something that might happen in 50 or 100 years!

 

[kweide]

I'd forgotten this, but I had a conversation with Olympus representative in 2002 in which he told me 'off the record' about the work Olympus was doing on 'live view' and mirrorless cameras with video. He told me then that Olympus was expecting DSLRs to go away in favor of mirrorless cameras, but it all seemed so futuristic to me - like something that might happen in 50 or 100 years!

Future trends. Ever thought about magnetic lenses ??? Liquid gear, focal length and focus done by electricity, magnetic fields ??? How small can such things be ? Ever thought about storage based on crystals ?? Programmed thru laser directly inside the lattice ??? Fiction ??? Are you sure ??
Is a CMOS, CCD necessary to produce a photographic image ??? No, it is not ! But this is fiction now, and reality in 5 - 10 years....
So Olympus is thinking far beyond the limits or just nuts driven by the market searching for arguments why things happen as they happen ???

Okay, i don´t care no more. Taking pictures with already overaged E-5

Klaus

 

[raist3d]

Re: once more around the merry-go-round ...

I don't care if the E-5 is the last FourThirds SLR.

Then I am not sure why you are reacting so defensively if you don't care.

It's a superb camera and I'll buy a second one eventually, if my work requires it. I bought it KNOWING that it was likely the last SLR in the line. I still use my E-1 too, and will continue using it. First to last: both superb cameras supported by the best lens line in the marketplace.

FourThirds to Micro-FourThirds is a continuum. The FourThirds SLR lenses are superb and work perfectly on Micro-FourThirds bodies excepting for autofocus speed. And I don't give a damn about autofocus speed. The "Pen Pro" mentioned will be the successor to the E-5 and will take care of that. The current Pens are better cameras than the consumer grade models they replace in the line. When Olympus releases it, it will outperform the E-5, which is a damn high water mark in camera performance. This is progress, an advance to a better generation of cameras.

Except for the obvious E-5 hyperbole that not everyone agrees with (not sure how the E-5 can be that high mark given it has a 3 year old sensor, even bested by a GH2), I actually said this. Read carefully.

Anyone who didn't understand this in October when the E-5 was released and the E-XXX and E-XX bodies end of life were announced is just being dense.
It's a good thing ... the Pen line of bodies outperform the consumer grade FourThirds SLR bodies in all ways excepting for autofocus speed and sequence capture. That's why they kept a professional body in the line, to keep the autofocus speed and sequence capture option available until a pro grade Pen that supplants it is achieved.

Dense indeed, yet many, several were saying it. Right?

Why do you and all the other goofballs on DPR persist in trying to spread doom and gloom? in trying to pose this as a negative thing? Do you really hate Olympus that much? or are you that in love with a clumsy, 60 year old flipping mirror?

Excuse me but where exactly did I pose that as a negative? Can you point where? Are you reading what I wrote? You can shove the goofball where it doesn't shine, particularly when you hang out at DPR. Here's the part that apparently you didn't care to read:

"On the other hand I would expect the pro spec pen to be quite something."

- Does that sound negative to you? To me it sure doesn't.


"To be honest, as long as the current lenses can be used, I wouldn't sweat if I was keeping my lenses and had (or not) an E-5. But wanted to point this out because I still see people who think that line is carrying on.

Where exactly is the negative here? I am even saying, that I wouldn't worry about my collection (that I still have) of 4/3rd lenses then I add:

"Olympus mentioned in another interview that making the 4/3rds lenses work in micro four theirs well is one of their top priorities. As long as they honor that, I wouldn't worry about my 4/3rd lens collection. "

I even bring up that they said this themselves (like many other things, like this very thread I started), that they are working on this- on carrying on 4/3rd lenses. Where exactly is the negative in this?

If things continue as they are now, Olympus will be the first to market with a full suite of professional to consumer grade, completely electronic imaging system cameras and a lens line to work with them that outperforms everyone else's. They'll get there before Canon, before Nikon, before Pentax, before Sony. And they'll be better performing cameras and lenses.

Well if things continue as they are now Olympus Imaging won't exist. They have been consecutively loosing cash and /or market in the last 4 years (oh wow , oh noes! I said something negative even though it's true! Children run!). Which is why I want to see what the new Olympus President is going to do. We should see big changes soon enough.

That's something to look forward to.

I bet Nikon and Canon are trying to figure out how to spin their lack of products in this domain ... or are busily at work in secret to try to coup Olympus on this.

I certainly want Olympus to succeed. But apparently some people are simply allergic to discussing facts. When people make up that the 4/3rds line will continue body wise and the E-7 is coming, I sure don't see you questioning that.

Let's just keep this civil and stick to facts. If you don't like discussion of facts, or worse: paint "negative" where I actually even said positive things that I even partially agree with you, then take a look in the mirror and ask yourself why are you so defensive. I am not touching this with you here again.

- Raist

 

[raist3d]

Re: once more around the merry-go-round ...

and the SLT cameras have a lot going for them too. Seems to me like Sony are taking this pretty seriously. . . . . but they're just a walkman company :ROTFL:

Reichman said that a few years back one high end executive in the camera industry (apparently not quite a camera maker, maybe a lens maker or major distributor) said to him:

"You see Canon/Nikon doing the usual- better ISO, more megapixels, etc. But watch those two over there - Panasonic and Sony. Watch them carefully, they are the future and where this is going. You just watch."

Look around now. Panasonic has the best micro four thirds implementation overall (taking out the fantastic Olympus JPEG engine) with a semi pro GH2 that has AF speeds in the middle class pro DSLR Phase detection cameras and the best 4/3rds or micro four thirds sensor you can buy, and Sony while they have been making sensors for everyone all along, is already #3 after Canon and Nikon with a new upcoming more pro specced Nex camera also.

And the cheapest good high resolution full frame you can buy.

They are missing the lenses, but now that they completely open their mount you see others jumping to their platform also. 2-3 years from now well see Carl Zeiss and others too with line up for them by then.

But you are right, they are only a walkman company

- Raist

 

[raist3d]

The fact that it seems to take a couple of years before there's a "Pen pro", is a good reason to buy an E-5 for those who want to stay with 4/3 and m4/3. And there is no reason to believe that the E-5 will suddenly stop working when the Pen pro is available. I know many who still shoot happily with their E-1 cameras. I was recently informed that a photo that I took with my E-1 and the 11-22 will be used on the front page of a local magazine. If I didn't shoot for stock, I might be able to survive fine with an E-1 and the GH1. Actually, the GH1 does just fine for stock photography.

The real problem of the E-5 (for many, certainly not all) is that 3 year old sensor. Here's an idea that I would like to think shouldn't cost much cash: Release a "e-5 Mark II" in a year. Put a newer sensor on it. Keep the rest the same. Push that ISO and DR to GH2 sensor levels and that becomes a really nice refresh. The R&D spent for exploring and calibrating that sensor could certainly be shared with whatever they are doing with the Pen line at the moment.

Keep the rest literally identical- minimal R&D, but big pay off. Address the E-5's Achilles heel and keeps the product/presence flowing.

I dont' know how hard this is to do but I would think shouldn't be too hard.

- Raist

 

[Godfrey]

Re: once more around the merry-go-round ...

... When people make up that the 4/3rds line will continue body wise and the E-7 is coming, I sure don't see you questioning that. ...

I don't waste my time responding to such silliness. Those people don't listen anyway.
Guess the same for you based on your dozens and dozens of negative posts.

bye.

 

[raist3d]

No proof of negativity...

I don't waste my time responding to such silliness. Those people don't listen anyway.
Guess the same for you based on your dozens and dozens of negative posts.

bye.

You just jump to conclusions, when asked to point out where the negatives where you get all self righteous and dash off. I humbly suggest that next time you make false accusations you bak them up with evidence. Otherwise it's like slander and you don't look very smart.

- raist

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Raist,
You are missing a few very important points:

- Hardly any potential E-5 customers are interested in hearing yet again that 4/3 will be discontinued, the sensor is to small/old/noisy, Olympus is losing money/going bankrupt, the E-5 focuses slowly in low light, Pentax makes a better camera body etc. We all know this now, but some of us still believe that the E-5 or some other 4/3 camera are viable options for our photography.

- When film was the dominant medium for photography, the most important components needed to take a good photo were 1. The photographer 2. The lens 3. The film 4. The camera. This is still true. Some of us believe that Olympus makes some of the best lenses available for photography, only equaled by the likes of Leica an Zeiss. When it comes to zoom lenses, this is certainly true. No sensor technology can change that fact.

- Most photos are taken during daylight at relatively low ISO. Under those circumstances, Olympus cameras deliver files that for me requires much less post processing than what my Nikon cameras do. There may be the odd blown highlight, some shadow noise and the E-1 files lack resolution for really big enlargements, but somehow, my clients don't seem to care. When correctly exposed, even the E-1 delivered files at ISO800 that was perfectly usable for commercial purposes. Most of the time, I don't need more than that.

- All camera systems have weaknesses, but none seem to attract as many doomsday prophets as Olympus. It has been like that since the OM-1 and possibly before. It seems to annoy those who use other camera brands that they still survive, in spite of making cameras that sometimes seem to defy the "Rules of Canikon".

- As has been pointed out several times, Olympus, Panasonic and Sony are so far the only camera manufacturers that offer a transition between old, mechanical and new electronic camera technology. The fact that the E-5 is probably the last fully mechanical DSLR from Olympus is a natural consequence of that. Somehow, that is now played against Olympus even if it's a proof that Olympus is at the leading edge of camera technology. Canikon are the ones trailing behind, and at the moment, they seem to be surprisingly detached.

I participate on this forum to discuss ways of improving my photography and to find what camera equipment suits my needs the best. Hearing for the umpteenth time that Olympus is not a viable option because in theory, it's dead already, doesn't contribute much. It's typical for the situation that on most 4/3 fora, here and elsewhere, the top pro Zuiko lenses are hardly ever discussed, in spite of the fact that, in most cases, they are superior to their Canikon equivalents.

As a Nikon user the last 6 years, owning 4 different F-mount bodies at the moment, it puzzles me to observe that every time I use an Olympus or Panasonic camera, I feel more at home ergonomically and produce image files that are more usable straight from the camera than with most of my F-mount bodies (the S3 being the exception, but then we are talking about a camera that really has issues).

So please stop telling me that 4/3 will be discontinued and that the E-5 has an old sensor. I, and most other candidates for that camera, know that already, and it doesn't affect our photos one single bit.

 

[Terry]

Everyone time out and take a deep breath here.

I read this thread this AM and was going to comment then. The orginal post did point out the slides about what Oly was doing (these slides have been on a number of internet sites over the weekend) but all the verbiage around it was positive about keeping lens, that the pro spec pen to be something good.

Somewhere along the way it got derailed to be a negative thread and I don't believe that was the intent. So, everyone lets cool off.