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Well the 4/3, impressive system

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nzmacro

Guest
90% macro for 40 odds years and coming up through full Canon and Nikon macro systems (think large systems :)) through to the Sony CD-1000, Panasonic FZ10 and the Canon SX20 IS all with added 35mm lenses, either reversed or not added to the front of the lenses to get higher macro ratios.

Along comes a Panasonic G2 4/3. My what a difference. Simply added a Raynox DCR-250 to the kit lenses and out for a few tests.......and a couple without (lightning was added BTW). So around two weeks old and loving the G2 :)

All the best folks.

Danny.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Excellent Danny
great shots all - mind you, I suspect the photographer had more to say then the camera!
 

JerryMK

New member
Hi Danny, I cannot agree more and wow some really nice shots you took there. I also do lots of macro with my "M43/vintage prime macro lenses" setup. I really does a great job!

Regards Jerlijn

--

My best work shared with you: MacroGallery
 
S

sagarmatha

Guest
So you came from Canikon down to Panasonic.
I'm considering going the other way :)
Have a Panasonic FZ50+Raynox 150/250/MCON40.
Looking for a GH2+14-140/300. Somehow though I can't get the Canon 60D/600D out of my mind, although I know that GH2 is better in most respects. I just love the 100 mm macro, the 70-200/4 L IS USM and so on. So in my heart I'm a Canon fan but in my mind I'm a Panasonic fan.
I'm eager to see what the G3 will bring in a short while.
My thinking is to use the 300 mm as a macro lens due to the large working distance. Also together with my close up lenses. Maybe I will buy a Canon 500D close up lens of the right dimension. It would be interesting to test the ETC mode while doing macro, both still and video. We'll see what the near future brings.
 
N

nzmacro

Guest
Thanks folks for the kind words :)

sagarmatha, these were taken with a kit lens 45-200 with just the Raynox added. I'm so used to seeing noise from the smaller digital cameras that the G2 is just a blessing. After seeing the results, I won't be going back or going up in size.

Heres what I was used to.........

http://www.macrophotos.com/setups/setupscd1000.htm

http://www.macrophotos.com/articles/pmacro.htm

So the whole idea was to go smaller, faster and larger images. I came originally from SLR macro systems. no way would I go back to those sizes with bellows, macro lenses, etc. Just a personal thing, but I can also see why some do. Its just not for me :)

All the best folks and thanks.

Danny.
 

pellicle

New member
Hi

So you came from Canikon down to Panasonic.
I'm considering going the other way :)
well ... to further Danny's wise words (especially for macro) the beauty of the G system (GHx or Gx) is that you have excellent through the lens and on the sensor view all the time. Working outside you can use the view finder to see well when you can't see the screen well due to bright light.

given the sensor difference


it would be expectable you may end up cropping that much anyway when using APS sized sensors.

compared to full frame you get better DOF

AND you don't have the issue of needing to remember to lock up the mirror.

http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/2010/03/mirror-mirror.html

you can get some fine optics (manual focus should be fine with macro anyway) which will be easier to mount on the m4/3 than anything else (such as Canon FD macro).

I have a FD200f4 which has a fine working distance for macro.

wait a few more weeks and I'll post something about my new tilt adaptor for macro too

Have a Panasonic FZ50+Raynox 150/250/MCON40.
which is a totally different ball game
 
N

nzmacro

Guest
Pellicle (great nickname BTW, takes me back a few years ;)), you have virtually nailed the macro benefits. The G2 I would swear I was looking through a mirror and pentaprisim. It really is that good. That is one of the biggest bonuses IMO. Compared to what I had in the way of electronic viewfinders.

What you see a lot now days is "I cropped this and that, etc". In the olden days :) with K25 positive film, we didn't crop outside the viewfinder. The problem is, thats stayed with a lot of us. I do very heavy manipulation work, but for std shots, never cropped, not even with digital. Nothing against it, just a personal thing.

Love that comparison of the sensor sizes, thats excellent !! and well done. It shows that we have a really decent sensor size, but with the benefits of macro image ratio compared to the APS system. Still with very little noise at ISO 100 - 200. Especially if we don't like cropping.

ywen: Thanks and its a clip on attachment but with extremely good optics. Corrected for CA which is very important. The benefit is lens to subject distance when using the 45 - 200 zoom Pannie lens. Example would be the high ratio shot of the dragonflies head. The distance would have been around 150mm lens to subject for that ratio size with the lens set at around 100 -150mm. At 200 you will end up with a higher ratio of the ant up there. So lens to subject distance for the macro ratio is the main benefit. To get those ratios without cropping you would really have to use the Canon 60mm 5x macro lens and you would need to get really, realy close to the subject. Using the Raynox DCR-250, you don't need to get that close for a decent ratio. Con's, honestly can't think of any, thats being honest.

Sorry folks, favourite subject :). You can wake up now and again. Thanks.

Danny.
 
S

sagarmatha

Guest
With the Raynox 250 you have +4.8 diopters, i.e a focal length of about 210 mm. The 45-200 at 200 will give you almost 1:1 magnification. Due to the crop factor you will get 2:1 instead.
Now the 100-300 will give me from 1:2 up to 1.5:1 and after cropping 1:1 - 3:1. Not bad. The MPE-65 goes from 1:1 to 5:1 on FF but on e.g a 60D you'll get 1.6:1 up to 8:1. In order to achieve that on a Panasonic GH2 with Raynox 250 you have to use the ETC mode. If that will degrade the image I don't know but you can use it in video.
Anyhow the DOF is extremely narrow above say 3:1 so for practical purposes in the field I think the combo GH2 + 100-300 + R250 will do.
 
N

nzmacro

Guest
Yep that makes sense.

The only figure you are really missing and to me a very important one for the 65mm x5 Canon, is the lens to subject distance. Heres the main problem, getting that close to a fly or dragonfly to get those ratios. For Canon SLR's I used the Canon 100 macro and a bellows and for Nikon I used the 60mm micro Nikkor. No way could I get that close to a dragonfly in the above shot taken with the G2 and the Raynox for that ratio. Still very hard to get a 1:1 on a Dragonfly with a 100mm let alone a 50mm macro lens. 200mm, not a problem.

So for me, you really need to work out the lens to subject distance. For me personally, thats the critical question.

And one of mine started 7 years ago, www.photomacrography.net just out of macro interest

Danny.
 
N

nzmacro

Guest
Fair enough and correct.

One figure and the most important one that you don't mention, is lens to subject distance for those ratios :). Thats the most critical one for successful macro of things that can fly.

So ratio vs lens to subject distance is the most useful of all. Its no good having a 5:1 ratio if the insect is almost touching the lens, unless its very cold, very slow or can't fly :).

All the best and very interesting thread. Learning all the time.

Danny.
 
S

sagarmatha

Guest
Sorry I messed things up with the Raynox lenses (since I have both :))
Correct:
Raynox 150 gives you +4.8 diopters and 250 gives you +8 diopters.
100-300 + R150 gives you 1:2 - 1.5:1 and after cropping 1:1 - 3:1 at 300 mm
100-300 + R250 gives you 1:1.25 - 2.4:1 and after cropping 1.6:1 - 4.8:1 at 300 mm

The lens to subject distance is determined by the close up lens in this case. With the 100-300 at 300 you have about 1500 mm.
Put on Raynox 150 and you will come down to about 200 mm
Put on Raynox 250 and you will come down to about 120 mm

The 100-300 without any close up lens will give you a magnification of about 1:5 and after cropping 1:2.5. The size of a dragonfly/butterfly is about say 60 mm. The width of your sensor is 18 mm so a magnification of 18/60=1:3.3 will do.
So I will be able to get a fair "macro" of these insects already at a distance of 1.5 m.
Not bad :)
 
N

nzmacro

Guest
Very interesting thanks :)

So with the Raynox DCR-250 and the lens set at 300mm we end up with a 4.8:1 :), so lets call that very close to a 5:1. Gets very interesting and especially when the lens to subject distance is at 120mm.

Okay, now with the MPE we end up with a 5:1 with a lens to subject distance of 41mm.

So roughly the same ratio with lens to subject distance of:

MPE 65mm = 41mm @ 5:1

300mm + Raynox DCR-250 = 120mm @ extremely close to 5:1

I know which one would scare off a fly or butterfly easier and make it tough to get close enough.

Yes, the Canon on a full sized sensor would be sharper. But with high ratio macro shots, for example a 5:1 of a flies eye, it actually makes little difference.

Very interesting and thanks for the work. Appreciated. So which macro shooter would have more success.

All the best.

Danny.
 
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