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Thread: Well the 4/3, impressive system

  1. #1
    nzmacro
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    Well the 4/3, impressive system

    90% macro for 40 odds years and coming up through full Canon and Nikon macro systems (think large systems ) through to the Sony CD-1000, Panasonic FZ10 and the Canon SX20 IS all with added 35mm lenses, either reversed or not added to the front of the lenses to get higher macro ratios.

    Along comes a Panasonic G2 4/3. My what a difference. Simply added a Raynox DCR-250 to the kit lenses and out for a few tests.......and a couple without (lightning was added BTW). So around two weeks old and loving the G2

    All the best folks.

    Danny.

  2. #2
    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Quote Originally Posted by nzmacro View Post
    90% macro for 40 odds years and coming up through
    your experience shows ... very nice work ... even the non macro

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Now I'm impressed. Absolutely stunning shots!

  4. #4
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Very nice indeed!

    Godfrey

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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Very nice work indeed. Macros are amazing but I also like the landscapes!

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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    i like

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    Senior Member JBurnett's Avatar
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    your experience shows ... very nice work ... even the non macro
    +1!
    Best regards,
    John.
    http://jburnett.ca

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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Excellent Danny
    great shots all - mind you, I suspect the photographer had more to say then the camera!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Hi Danny, I cannot agree more and wow some really nice shots you took there. I also do lots of macro with my "M43/vintage prime macro lenses" setup. I really does a great job!

    Regards Jerlijn

    --

    My best work shared with you: MacroGallery

  10. #10
    sagarmatha
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    So you came from Canikon down to Panasonic.
    I'm considering going the other way
    Have a Panasonic FZ50+Raynox 150/250/MCON40.
    Looking for a GH2+14-140/300. Somehow though I can't get the Canon 60D/600D out of my mind, although I know that GH2 is better in most respects. I just love the 100 mm macro, the 70-200/4 L IS USM and so on. So in my heart I'm a Canon fan but in my mind I'm a Panasonic fan.
    I'm eager to see what the G3 will bring in a short while.
    My thinking is to use the 300 mm as a macro lens due to the large working distance. Also together with my close up lenses. Maybe I will buy a Canon 500D close up lens of the right dimension. It would be interesting to test the ETC mode while doing macro, both still and video. We'll see what the near future brings.

  11. #11
    nzmacro
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Thanks folks for the kind words

    sagarmatha, these were taken with a kit lens 45-200 with just the Raynox added. I'm so used to seeing noise from the smaller digital cameras that the G2 is just a blessing. After seeing the results, I won't be going back or going up in size.

    Heres what I was used to.........

    http://www.macrophotos.com/setups/setupscd1000.htm

    http://www.macrophotos.com/articles/pmacro.htm

    So the whole idea was to go smaller, faster and larger images. I came originally from SLR macro systems. no way would I go back to those sizes with bellows, macro lenses, etc. Just a personal thing, but I can also see why some do. Its just not for me

    All the best folks and thanks.

    Danny.

  12. #12
    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by sagarmatha View Post
    So you came from Canikon down to Panasonic.
    I'm considering going the other way
    well ... to further Danny's wise words (especially for macro) the beauty of the G system (GHx or Gx) is that you have excellent through the lens and on the sensor view all the time. Working outside you can use the view finder to see well when you can't see the screen well due to bright light.

    given the sensor difference


    it would be expectable you may end up cropping that much anyway when using APS sized sensors.

    compared to full frame you get better DOF

    AND you don't have the issue of needing to remember to lock up the mirror.

    http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/2010/03/mirror-mirror.html

    you can get some fine optics (manual focus should be fine with macro anyway) which will be easier to mount on the m4/3 than anything else (such as Canon FD macro).

    I have a FD200f4 which has a fine working distance for macro.

    wait a few more weeks and I'll post something about my new tilt adaptor for macro too

    Have a Panasonic FZ50+Raynox 150/250/MCON40.
    which is a totally different ball game

  13. #13
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Amazing.
    Uwe Steinmueller
    -------------------

    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

  14. #14
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    great pics!

    What are the pros/cons of this screw-in macro lens attachment vs a true macro lens?

  15. #15
    nzmacro
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Pellicle (great nickname BTW, takes me back a few years ), you have virtually nailed the macro benefits. The G2 I would swear I was looking through a mirror and pentaprisim. It really is that good. That is one of the biggest bonuses IMO. Compared to what I had in the way of electronic viewfinders.

    What you see a lot now days is "I cropped this and that, etc". In the olden days with K25 positive film, we didn't crop outside the viewfinder. The problem is, thats stayed with a lot of us. I do very heavy manipulation work, but for std shots, never cropped, not even with digital. Nothing against it, just a personal thing.

    Love that comparison of the sensor sizes, thats excellent !! and well done. It shows that we have a really decent sensor size, but with the benefits of macro image ratio compared to the APS system. Still with very little noise at ISO 100 - 200. Especially if we don't like cropping.

    ywen: Thanks and its a clip on attachment but with extremely good optics. Corrected for CA which is very important. The benefit is lens to subject distance when using the 45 - 200 zoom Pannie lens. Example would be the high ratio shot of the dragonflies head. The distance would have been around 150mm lens to subject for that ratio size with the lens set at around 100 -150mm. At 200 you will end up with a higher ratio of the ant up there. So lens to subject distance for the macro ratio is the main benefit. To get those ratios without cropping you would really have to use the Canon 60mm 5x macro lens and you would need to get really, realy close to the subject. Using the Raynox DCR-250, you don't need to get that close for a decent ratio. Con's, honestly can't think of any, thats being honest.

    Sorry folks, favourite subject . You can wake up now and again. Thanks.

    Danny.

  16. #16
    sagarmatha
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    With the Raynox 250 you have +4.8 diopters, i.e a focal length of about 210 mm. The 45-200 at 200 will give you almost 1:1 magnification. Due to the crop factor you will get 2:1 instead.
    Now the 100-300 will give me from 1:2 up to 1.5:1 and after cropping 1:1 - 3:1. Not bad. The MPE-65 goes from 1:1 to 5:1 on FF but on e.g a 60D you'll get 1.6:1 up to 8:1. In order to achieve that on a Panasonic GH2 with Raynox 250 you have to use the ETC mode. If that will degrade the image I don't know but you can use it in video.
    Anyhow the DOF is extremely narrow above say 3:1 so for practical purposes in the field I think the combo GH2 + 100-300 + R250 will do.

  17. #17
    nzmacro
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Yep that makes sense.

    The only figure you are really missing and to me a very important one for the 65mm x5 Canon, is the lens to subject distance. Heres the main problem, getting that close to a fly or dragonfly to get those ratios. For Canon SLR's I used the Canon 100 macro and a bellows and for Nikon I used the 60mm micro Nikkor. No way could I get that close to a dragonfly in the above shot taken with the G2 and the Raynox for that ratio. Still very hard to get a 1:1 on a Dragonfly with a 100mm let alone a 50mm macro lens. 200mm, not a problem.

    So for me, you really need to work out the lens to subject distance. For me personally, thats the critical question.

    And one of mine started 7 years ago, www.photomacrography.net just out of macro interest

    Danny.

  18. #18
    nzmacro
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Fair enough and correct.

    One figure and the most important one that you don't mention, is lens to subject distance for those ratios . Thats the most critical one for successful macro of things that can fly.

    So ratio vs lens to subject distance is the most useful of all. Its no good having a 5:1 ratio if the insect is almost touching the lens, unless its very cold, very slow or can't fly .

    All the best and very interesting thread. Learning all the time.

    Danny.

  19. #19
    sagarmatha
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Sorry I messed things up with the Raynox lenses (since I have both )
    Correct:
    Raynox 150 gives you +4.8 diopters and 250 gives you +8 diopters.
    100-300 + R150 gives you 1:2 - 1.5:1 and after cropping 1:1 - 3:1 at 300 mm
    100-300 + R250 gives you 1:1.25 - 2.4:1 and after cropping 1.6:1 - 4.8:1 at 300 mm

    The lens to subject distance is determined by the close up lens in this case. With the 100-300 at 300 you have about 1500 mm.
    Put on Raynox 150 and you will come down to about 200 mm
    Put on Raynox 250 and you will come down to about 120 mm

    The 100-300 without any close up lens will give you a magnification of about 1:5 and after cropping 1:2.5. The size of a dragonfly/butterfly is about say 60 mm. The width of your sensor is 18 mm so a magnification of 18/60=1:3.3 will do.
    So I will be able to get a fair "macro" of these insects already at a distance of 1.5 m.
    Not bad

  20. #20
    nzmacro
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Very interesting thanks

    So with the Raynox DCR-250 and the lens set at 300mm we end up with a 4.8:1 , so lets call that very close to a 5:1. Gets very interesting and especially when the lens to subject distance is at 120mm.

    Okay, now with the MPE we end up with a 5:1 with a lens to subject distance of 41mm.

    So roughly the same ratio with lens to subject distance of:

    MPE 65mm = 41mm @ 5:1

    300mm + Raynox DCR-250 = 120mm @ extremely close to 5:1

    I know which one would scare off a fly or butterfly easier and make it tough to get close enough.

    Yes, the Canon on a full sized sensor would be sharper. But with high ratio macro shots, for example a 5:1 of a flies eye, it actually makes little difference.

    Very interesting and thanks for the work. Appreciated. So which macro shooter would have more success.

    All the best.

    Danny.
    Last edited by nzmacro; 20th April 2011 at 02:57.

  21. #21
    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by nzmacro View Post
    Pellicle (great nickname BTW, takes me back a few years )
    I think you're about the first one to get it (or at least vocalise it). Loved the RT too (still have my 630's with E focusing screens)

    :-)

  22. #22
    Senior Member kweide's Avatar
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Uff, what beautiful macros. I feel the urgent need to invest some money in that Raynox lenses....
    __________________________________________________
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    see more ( NSFW ) on : http://www.klaweide.de

  23. #23
    nzmacro
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Hi

    I think you're about the first one to get it (or at least vocalise it). Loved the RT too (still have my 630's with E focusing screens)

    :-)
    I started off with the Canon FTB, so followed the Pellicle idea as well since at that time I was shooting on a microscope and the idea of not worrying about a moving mirror appealed. From there I went to the Canon EF (Gorgeous camera and still have it), then onto the A1's and finally the T90. So yep, I hear ya

    This has turned into one interesting thread and I've learnt a lot about the 4/3, so a huge thanks to all.

    Danny.

  24. #24
    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Quote Originally Posted by nzmacro View Post
    I started off with the Canon FTB,
    the Pellix was always something I admired but could not afford or justify :-) I started on OM-1 as my first SLR and mirror lockup was more common back then. I never understood why they didn't incorporate it in electronic cameras from day 1 ... its so easy to do

    :-)

  25. #25
    sagarmatha
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Well I started with a Konica Autoreflex T3 back in 1975
    After some years I went for both OM-2 and OM-4. I had some interest in macro also
    back then so I bought the telescopic auto-tube.

  26. #26
    nzmacro
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    Re: Well the 4/3, impressive system

    Hmm, theres a few of us oldies in here huh . Well its a pleasure to meet you folks and like I said, I learn something new everyday and that includes here. This forum has been a great find and thanks all

    Danny.

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