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Thread: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

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    Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    All of a sudden, Adorama has major discounts on the G2 in the form of instant rebates, and the Panasonic Online Store has the G2 as unavailable all of a sudden.

    Guess it will be interesting. My G2 has been purloined by my wife, so I am going to be in the market again soon.

    I've been debating on the really cheap GH1 available these days... Or perhaps the GH2.

    Doug

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Doug, the G3 is highly rumored to be announced May 11 or 12. If you go to 4/3 rumors there is some possible leaked info. I'm ready to upgrade my G1 and have been seriously considering the GH2 but if the sensor is substantially improved along with the better EVF on the G3 that's a strong possibility.

    http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-panasoni...-lens-for-649/

    Diane

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Diane,
    Yeah, I was thinking that the GH1 for cheap or the GH2 was the way to go, but if there is enough goodness in the G3, that would be my preference as videos are not my thing.

    I really hadn't paid much attention to the rumors until I found myself in the market sooner than I expected due to my wife's "adoption" of my G2 on our recent trip to Yosemite :-).

    Should be interesting to see what they come out with.

    Doug

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    but if the sensor is substantially improved along with the better EVF on the G3 that's a strong possibility.
    given how good the EVF is on the G[H]1/2 I would be surprised to see anything significant.

    The G1 is a great camera, I suspect we'll not see much significantly better than it. I'm happy to be wrong, but at the same time I think the G1 represents the most amazing amount of camera / dollar I've seen since digital started (especially used with people dumping G1 to get G2 and whatnot)

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    given how good the EVF is on the G[H]1/2 I would be surprised to see anything significant.

    The G1 is a great camera, I suspect we'll not see much significantly better than it. I'm happy to be wrong, but at the same time I think the G1 represents the most amazing amount of camera / dollar I've seen since digital started (especially used with people dumping G1 to get G2 and whatnot)
    My G1 is a happy infrared camera these days .

    I must admit being able to get the GH1 for so cheap is very intriguing given that it is supposed to have better low light perf than the G2 sensor.

    I am more than a little worried that Panasonic will dumb down the G3 somehow and make it less photographer friendly.

    Doug

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    given how good the EVF is on the G[H]1/2 I would be surprised to see anything significant.

    The G1 is a great camera, I suspect we'll not see much significantly better than it. I'm happy to be wrong, but at the same time I think the G1 represents the most amazing amount of camera / dollar I've seen since digital started (especially used with people dumping G1 to get G2 and whatnot)
    Yes, I understood the EVF was really good (and better than the G1s) on the GH2 which is one of the reaons why its been my first choice (a bit better sensor, low light shooting but video is not muh of a priority at all). I just feel I need to see what the G3 offers. Maybe, since the GH2 isn't easily come by, I'll end up waiting even longer and live with my G1 and GF1 longer than I planned. I always have my 5D still even though I've decided not to upgrade it.
    I agree about the G1 though. Still using it and enjoy shooting with it.

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    +/- the same here, have a G1 for over two years now, I'm very happy with it.

    And the G3 ? Well, I'm looking forward to it, but it must be a substantial increase in quality before I will switch. Since I'm not interested in video, ... I can only dream of a better sensor, a better viewfinder, better external connections (tethered shooting), better ergonomics, ....

    But, I dream ....

    C U,
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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Yes Rafael, I agree and so do many here I think. Just a G1 with grainless ISO 3200 would be ideal. Oh, and a one button push for manual focus please Panasonic!
    It's funny how the first thing I grab is the G1 and the D700 stays at home so much ...

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    Senior Member m3photo's Avatar
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    Re: G1 vs X100

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    I'm ready to upgrade my G1 ...
    By the way Diane, before selling your X100 did you by any chance test it against the G1+20mm?

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    , better ergonomics, ....
    an interesting point, what would you change? Where would the room be on the camera to change it? Would you swap out one aspect in favor of another?

    As an aside I can say there are a few minor points about the GH1 which niggle me, while nothing much niggled me about the G1 at all. I am actually seriously considering selling the GH1 to go back to a G1 (which I regret selling, but didn't see the sence in keeping both)

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    Re: G1 vs X100

    Quote Originally Posted by m3photo View Post
    By the way Diane, before selling your X100 did you by any chance test it against the G1+20mm?
    'Twasn't me that had X100 LOL. Terry had 2 of them, her Japanese purchase and the just delivered US version which she's sold. Maybe her?????

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    For me the G1 ergonomics are about right except the one button push for MF lenses. Otherwise, the better sensor, better low light shooting and the better EVF are the reasons for considering an upgrade.

    I can't believe I still have my 5D after 5 years (or longer???). When I started with digital DSLR with the D30 and D60 (Canon), with the Oly E10 and Canon G1 sneaking in there, I upgraded consistently until I bought the FF. In the last several years as I stopped shooting commercially I was looking for an acceptable small alternative, from a Rebel to G9 and finally trying the MFT. That seems to be a fit for me right now. I seem to have more patience for an upgrade so we'll see what the G3 brings and if I, in the end, decide to wait for the next generation.

    Diane

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    I'm looking forward to read about the G3. The G1 serves me well, since November 2008 now, but I would like to see some improvements:
    Better ergonomics (one push button for enlarged view, no pushable control wheel at the front of the camera, a video record button not possible to press by accident, two control wheels, touch control) and if possible lower noise at base ISO - that's what I need to upgrade from my G1.

    I'm waiting for specifications and some hands-on reports and will then buy either the NEX-7 or the G3. Somehow I suspect none of these cameras will have two control dials. That's a shame - I would assign one of them to ISO setting and the other one to exposure compensation (and use the camera in A mode with legacy lenses).

    If NEX-7 offers something missing with the G3, or is on par with the G3 in every aspect except for the sensor I'll switch from Panasonic to Sony.

    /Jonas

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Jonas, would you miss the EVF? I've shot with a VF for many years and would have trouble giving it up. Light in the southeast US is VERY bright for 3/4 of the year and maybe more so its an issue (and I'm not always able to shoot early morning or late afternoon) plus I'm just used to shooting with a VF. i do use the tilt LCD when on tripod or shooting odd angles.

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    an interesting point, what would you change? Where would the room be on the camera to change it? Would you swap out one aspect in favor of another?
    I would definitely be in favor of the one-touch MF magnifier that so many owner seem to need. They can have LCD/LVF button for that, AFAIC, but there is plenty of space left next to the Display or the Dustbin buttons.

    C U
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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    On the GF1 the back dial is pushed for the one button MF magification. Is it the same for the GH's and I guess the G2 and G10? I like it well enough but since I have both the G1 and GF1 I sort of forget it on the GF1 and still roll my thumb from one button to the next. Still, if my main body had the one button I'd get used to it quickly LOL.

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Jonas, would you miss the EVF? I've shot with a VF for many years and would have trouble giving it up. Light in the southeast US is VERY bright for 3/4 of the year and maybe more so its an issue (and I'm not always able to shoot early morning or late afternoon) plus I'm just used to shooting with a VF. i do use the tilt LCD when on tripod or shooting odd angles.
    Hi Diane,

    I would have owned and used a NEX-5 now if it had been a decently equipped with a hot shoe, an EVF and a few more buttons. I can't imagine using a camera without a good eye-level viewfinder and preferably an electronic one.

    Rumours say a higher specified NEX (NEX-7) will be announced some time this summer, maybe looking a little like the Konica Minolta A2 including all I things I miss on the NEX cameras of today.

    I bought a Sony A55 to check out the feeling and the EVF. For me the viewfinder worked as well as the G1 one also if technically really not par yet. So the rumours about a 3MP EVF in the NEX-7 suits me fine.

    Now rumours are rumours. We know pretty much what we have, and can expect from Panasonic. The reason for me to look at the NEX at all is the problem Panasonic and Olympus have with border and corner smearing with some old lenses, the harsh transitions from blown out highlights to darker parts around those and also the one small step up from the 2x crop sensor to the APS-C sized sensor. (I would for example very much rather use the CV35/1.2 for a fast normal than the CV25/0.95 offered for 4/3, or I can stick to my SMC-P FA31/1.8 which is an excellent but slower lens).

    babbling stops, regards,

    Jonas

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Thanks for that info. I hadn't kept up with the rumors about specs for the NEX. I guess I'm not in as much a hurry to upgrade as I thought I was so can afford to sit and wait for some more developments this year. The Japanese disaster has probably slowed them all down a bit (I just read in maybe the New York Times that DSLRs generally are hard to find in US and getting harder) so patience might reward me this time LOL.

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    I must say that I would only go for the G3 if it has a GH2 kind of sensor. Which I really hope!

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    With a G1 there is no need to hurry with anything.
    It's impressing; the G1 is now over 2.5 years old, and for being the first model out of a new system it has been fantastic and unusually mature from start.

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    Re: Terry's X100

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    'Twasn't me that had X100 LOL. Terry had 2 of them, her Japanese purchase and the just delivered US version which she's sold. Maybe her?????
    I do apologize for the confusion.

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    Re: Sony A55

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
    I bought a Sony A55 to check out the feeling and the EVF.
    Jonas, how does it compare to the G1 with regard to the images it produces? Better high ISO? The critics seem to agree on the heavy smearing in the noise reduction, did you see the same?
    Thanks in advance.

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    Senior Member m3photo's Avatar
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    Calling Terry ...

    Hi Terry, before selling your X100 did you by any chance test it against the G1+20mm?

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    I have been looking at getting a second m4/3 body to go with my GF1. (For some reason my wife won't let me swipe her G1...)

    So, it looks like the GH1 and the G2 are about the same price at Adorama right now, with various combinations of lenses. I'd love to pick up the 7-14 or the 14-140 and one of those cameras.

    Can somebody suggest reasons why I would pick one over the other? I don't really need video. Also, I'm not that interested in touch screens and the like. Main use is street and travel photography.

    Thanks!

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Off the top of my head if you are choosing between these two I'd likely go with the GH1. It has the bit larger sensor that allows for lossless resolution regardless of aspect (4:3, 3:2, 16:9). Also supposedly has a bit better sensor than the G1--and I believe the G2 has the G1 sensor. It doesn't have the touch screen but, AFAIK, has all and more options of the G2.

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    Re: Calling Terry ...

    Quote Originally Posted by m3photo View Post
    Hi Terry, before selling your X100 did you by any chance test it against the G1+20mm?
    I still have my X100 - I sold the second copy that I got. Really like the X100.
    I don't have a G1 to test against but can tell you for sure the files are better and after you get past ISO 400 it gets to be a bigger and bigger difference.

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    Re: Sony A55

    Quote Originally Posted by m3photo View Post
    Jonas, how does it compare to the G1 with regard to the images it produces? Better high ISO? The critics seem to agree on the heavy smearing in the noise reduction, did you see the same?
    Thanks in advance.
    Hi,

    The A55 is definitely better than the G1 at high ISO, as expected. I shoot raw only so I don't know about the noise reduction compared to other cameras.

    What 's more important to me than the lower noise is that the images could take more abuse from processing than the G1 images. Transitions between overloaded pixels and the surrounding area was nicer. 0.8 stops of more DOF control (not much but welcomed anyway).

    Everything else was worse or maybe on par with the Panasonic Gx. The Sony EVF was good enough for me, maybe not as good (more tearing) as Panasonic but close and a coming model will probably be better.
    Some settings I was used to control using a knob or button were available via the menu only, the articulated screen felt much more fragile and "plastic" and when on tripod it was hard to open with the hinge at the bottom. The GPS was cool.

    I use imperfectum as I managed to have the store taking the camera back. (I bought the camera and the Sony 35/1.8 Easy Choice lens. The PDAF was fast but never correct. The camera visited Sony twice in a short time and then I got my money back as Sony Sweden kept the lens. (The store offered me a Sigma 30/1.4 instead which wasn't an option for me.)

    In the grand scheme some differences, some pros and cons, nothing making me rejecting a coming NEX-7 if they make it right for my hands.

    regards,

    /Jonas

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Well,
    I started this thread more as an FYI, but it certainly has got me thinking about my forthcoming purchase. And those thoughts are echoed in various comments here.

    For me, Having just shot in Yosemite for four days with my D200:

    1) I really missed the swivel screen for odd angle and tripod shots.
    2) Using the OVF on the D200 was not substantially better than the EVF on the G2.
    3) Manual focus is significantly better on the G2 than on the D200 (no surprise there).
    4) The weight was a significant difference maker in what I brought along.
    5) Because of the above, I tend to experiment more with the G2.

    So, pretty much the only thing that could sway me away from another m43 would be IQ and if the forthcoming G3 improves there, all the better.

    My only concern is that they "improve" the G3 in such a way as to make it less enjoyable to use. The most likely cause of that would be taking away control from the photographer because they decide they need to focus on the neophyte or because they fall in love with the touch screen approach (which is worthless when you are using the EVF).

    Oh well, time will tell...

    Doug

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Off the top of my head if you are choosing between these two I'd likely go with the GH1. It has the bit larger sensor that allows for lossless resolution regardless of aspect (4:3, 3:2, 16:9). Also supposedly has a bit better sensor than the G1--and I believe the G2 has the G1 sensor. It doesn't have the touch screen but, AFAIK, has all and more options of the G2.
    Thanks, Diane, I appreciate the info.

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    Re: Sony A55

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonas View Post

    Everything else was worse or maybe on par with the Panasonic Gx.
    Thank you Jonas. I think I'll wait for the G3 ...

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    Re: X100

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I don't have a G1 to test against but can tell you for sure the files are better and after you get past ISO 400 it gets to be a bigger and bigger difference.
    Thank you Terry.

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Michael, the fairly strong rumor is it will be announced Wed or Thurs (or did I say that earlier LOL). We know it will be awhile, most likely, until it starts shipping but if it is what I want I'll wait.

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Quote Originally Posted by bennettk View Post
    Thanks, Diane, I appreciate the info.
    you may (if you have not seen it already) find this useful too
    http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/2011/03...aw-pixels.html

    from that:
    It has been documented elsewhere that if you use RAW and a raw converter which does not attempt to apply lens aberration corrections that you can get the following sizes from the sensor:

    4016 x 3016 Pixels (12.11 MPixels) (4:3)
    4368 x 2464 Pixels (10.76 MPixels) (16:9)

    This is the difference you'll get


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    Re: Calling Terry ...

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I still have my X100 - I sold the second copy that I got. Really like the X100.
    I don't have a G1 to test against but can tell you for sure the files are better and after you get past ISO 400 it gets to be a bigger and bigger difference.
    in favor of which?

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Sorry...strongly in favor of X100

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    Re: Pretty clear G3 or whatever is coming...

    Quote Originally Posted by greypilgrim View Post
    All of a sudden, Adorama has major discounts on the G2 in the form of instant rebates, and the Panasonic Online Store has the G2 as unavailable all of a sudden.

    Guess it will be interesting. My G2 has been purloined by my wife, so I am going to be in the market again soon.

    I've been debating on the really cheap GH1 available these days... Or perhaps the GH2.

    Doug
    The G2 is not a strong seller. I think it's being discounted to move stock, nothing more.

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