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Thread: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

  1. #51
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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelao View Post
    I don't feel I will be able to fully judge the G3's RAW files on their own or against other cameras until RAW converters are updated to handle the files. Of course I know the converter makes a difference - that's the whole point. I did not ignore this, it was the basis for my comments.

    Sigh.
    well, then I did not understand your statement "this implies that the RAW itself is very good."...

    "very good" implies some comparison with some other raw files, right ?

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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

    We all understand that jpegs are in camera processed but how often do you hear any photographer referring to an E5 as their preferred RAW processor. LOL you are being needlessly pedantic making it not really possible to carry on much of a worthwhile discussion in this thread. Too bad.

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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

    I did not ignore this, it was the basis for my comments.

    Sigh.
    Man, that made me laugh. Reading anything takes some intelligence, and some attention to detail AND keeping context (set by previous comments) in mind.

    A. E. Houseman once wrote, "Three minutes' thought would suffice to find this out; but thought is irksome and three minutes is a long time." Now, it's about three seconds.
    Last edited by kit laughlin; 18th May 2011 at 01:53.

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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    We all understand that jpegs are in camera processed but how often do you hear any photographer referring to an E5 as their preferred RAW processor.
    as often as any photographer that is using in camera JPGs and there are many of those, specifically w/ Olympus cameras and exactly because they have good in camera raw converter... it seems that actually you are "needlessly pedantic" here by insisting that somebody must exactly say "I am using my E5 as my preferred RAW processor"...

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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by deejjjaaaa View Post
    as often as any photographer that is using in camera JPGs and there are many of those, specifically w/ Olympus cameras and exactly because they have good in camera raw converter... it seems that actually you are "needlessly pedantic" here by insisting that somebody must exactly say "I am using my E5 as my preferred RAW processor"...
    Which then means that you must live with the controls that the camera allows, doesn't give you the option for local adjustments, you are baking in a jpeg at native size regardless of how you are going to print.

    I can easily see how you would call the camera a RAW converter and I can see how certain cameras/manufacturers have better converters than others. However there are plenty of reasons to not want to start with a jpeg.

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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    You do realize there will be a RAW conversion via new upgrades of LR and PS (and others like Aperture, etc). You can never go back to LR2 for instance and convert a new camera's files unless you use dng.
    I missed that piece.

    That was not the point - the point was that you can't make the judgement about the quality of a sensor (raw files) based on the output from a raw converter (in camera in this case) if there is a reason to believe that there were improvement in that raw converter between cameras (between G3 and previous models from Panasonic)... Take some raw files (high ISO) from the camera that was supported when for example the very early versions of ACR (ACR is used just an example) and process them with that early version of ACR and then with ACR v6.4 for example... you shall see a very drastic improvement, but the raw files are the same... and this is the case w/ G3 - I bet it is the same technology as in GH2, just improved firmware that produces more pleasing JPGs (which is good of course)... now are GH2 raw files that much better if you are using "off camera" raw converter (ACR/LR/DxO/C1/Aperture/whatever) than raw files from 12mp Panasonic sensors used for example in E-PL2 or G2 or from prev. generation of Panasonic multi-aspect sensor used in GH1 ? G3 has many other virtues of course - but any statement that "raw files are very good" is a wishful thinking (if that implies that they are "very good" vs the state of Panasonic sensor technology represented by GH2 sensor)

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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Which then means that you must live with the controls that the camera allows, doesn't give you the option for local adjustments, you are baking in a jpeg at native size regardless of how you are going to print.
    yes, but I am not arguing that in camera JPGs are better than what you can get by putting some effort in raw conversion and postprocessing (I do not use in camera JPGs myself) - I am saying to Diane that there are many photographers that are using in camera JPGs + any camera is essentially a raw converter + the quality of that "in camera" raw converter can make a big difference - you can have perfect sensor and barely usable OOC JPGs or less than perfect sensor and very good OOC JPGs... so the quality of OOC JPGs proves nothing.


    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I can easily see how you would call the camera a RAW converter and I can see how certain cameras/manufacturers have better converters than others. However there are plenty of reasons to not want to start with a jpeg.
    one more time - I am only disputing the statement from OP that "this implies that the RAW itself is very good."... OOC JPGs do not imply anything except the quality of the raw converter implemented in camera's firmware... that's it.

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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

    one more time - I am only disputing the statement from OP that "this implies that the RAW itself is very good."... OOC JPGs do not imply anything except the quality of the raw converter implemented in camera's firmware... that's it.
    We will have to agree to disagree, hopefully agreeably.

    Of course the converter is incredibly important. I would contend though, that no matter how good the chef, there is a better opportunity for a good dish when the raw ingredients are of high quality. Similarly, a good jpeg engine will deliver better good when it has excellent data to work on.

    Anyway, as long as everyone is able to get what they need to make the photographs they desire, we should, as photographers, be delighted.

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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    Man, that made me laugh. Reading anything takes some intelligence, and some attention to detail AND keeping context (set by previous comments) in mind.

    A. E. Houseman once wrote, "Three minutes' thought would suffice to find this out; but thought is irksome and three minutes is a long time." Now, it's about three seconds.
    Like the Houseman quote. I was not familiar with it. So true!

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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    We all understand that jpegs are in camera processed but how often do you hear any photographer referring to an E5 as their preferred RAW processor. LOL you are being needlessly pedantic making it not really possible to carry on much of a worthwhile discussion in this thread. Too bad.

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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelao View Post
    We will have to agree to disagree
    we just have to wait until DxO tests and dpreview where they will publish results of the raw conversion w/ ACR w/o NR applied... GH2 raws were already converted w/ ACR 6.x (dpreview published it in March 2011), so it will be very clear who is right : you - raw files (G3 sensor) are "better" than what Panasonic managed to achieve so far (pre G3) _or_ me - raw converter (in G3's firmware) is better, but sensor (and raw files) is actually cropped GH2 sensor... so let us wait

  12. #62
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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

    @ Pelao: the Houseman quote was misquoted in Neil Postman's truly excellent book, "Amusing ourselves to death". "Three" became "A minute's thought..." which works even better! Cheers, KL

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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

    you - raw files (G3 sensor) are "better" than what Panasonic managed to achieve so far (pre G3)
    Um...never said that. That wasn't my point.

    Let's just say you are right, and all will be well with the world.

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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    @ Pelao: the Houseman quote was misquoted in Neil Postman's truly excellent book, "Amusing ourselves to death". "Three" became "A minute's thought..." which works even better! Cheers, KL
    Well, I have a copy on my bookshelf. it's been there for about a year, just waiting. Now you've prompted me to go and read it.
    Thanks!

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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions



    It's prescient, and brilliant (and funny). My kind of academic!

  16. #66
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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

    I added Panasonic to the pages I'm a fan of on facebook and went through their FB page to get to their website. I added the G3 and kit lens to my basket and it showed as being $559. I went to check out and put in my zip, shipping was $4 so the total should've been around $600 including tax. For some reason after I entered my CC the total they were going to charge me was the original price plus shipping and tax (somewhere around $760). Did anyone else have this issue?

    Thanks everyone,

    Dennis

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    Re: Panasonic G3: My hands-on first impressions

    looking at some pix. do you guys think it's possible to fit the contax g lens with metabones adapter in the new g3? it looks a bit tight up top on where it curves. i ordered mine and that would suck if i can't use one of my fav lens/adapter.

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