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Thread: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

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    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Assume that I will never use video from one of these cameras, and add to that I have the 14/2/5, the 20/1.7, and the 45/2.8.

    Which of the various G bodies (I have a G1) produces the best stills, and (if different) which has the best EVF?

    TIA, KL

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Right now, it's probably the GH2, with its oversized, multi-aspect ratio sensor.

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    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    Which of the various G bodies (I have a G1) produces the best stills, and (if different) which has the best EVF?
    I don't know but I have a G1 and a GH1 and I think its hair splitting. But I'll be interested to see how well the G3 compares to G1 / G2 on the JPG and RAW scene

    :-)

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    From my knowledge, it's the GH2. The G3 may well match it.

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    The results produced by all them are so similar as to make the choice very difficult on image quality. I'd choose on viewfinder, features and form factor instead. The G3 has a newer sensor than even the GH2 so it might prove an improvement even on that model, currently top of the line.

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    The results produced by all them are so similar as to make the choice very difficult on image quality. I'd choose on viewfinder, features and form factor instead. The G3 has a newer sensor than even the GH2 so it might prove an improvement even on that model, currently top of the line.
    And I would add: what is your output goal? Do you shoot for web display only? In particular, do you make prints? Large prints?

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    I have been using GH1 with 20/1.7 and 45/2.8. I am very happy with the still outputs. I would imaging that GH2 will be even better. The real plus for me of using GH1/GH2 is its ability to shoot 16:9 native format. I shoot RAW and can display in my Panasonic plasma HDTV with excellent results.

    Cheers,

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    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Thanks everyone. Responses in order:

    Allen: from what I read, the GH1 has the same multi-aspect larger sensor, too, and it is a steal right now (B&H, $399).

    Godfrey; I have not kept up on this aspect (finder) so which one of the G1 successors (apart from the G3) has a better finder?

    Pelao, I do not intend to print large from this camera; I have a Sony for that.

    Thanks everyone. Keep it coming! KL

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    Thanks everyone. Responses in order:

    Allen: from what I read, the GH1 has the same multi-aspect larger sensor, too, and it is a steal right now (B&H, $399).

    Godfrey; I have not kept up on this aspect (finder) so which one of the G1 successors (apart from the G3) has a better finder?

    Pelao, I do not intend to print large from this camera; I have a Sony for that.

    Thanks everyone. Keep it coming! KL
    Hi

    Just a small point: if I understand your responses properly (which may not be the case 'cause I can be pretty dopey...) your response to Allen implies that the GH1 and GH2 have the same sensor. Both are multi-aspect, but the GH2 is a new sensor, with greater resolution and better high ISO performance. These points may or may not be important to you.

    Given that you are not going to print large (by which I mean in the 11 x 17 to 16 x 20 range, then ultimate image quality may not be necessary. I can easily make excellent large prints from my GF1, which pretty much has the same sensor as the GH1. The GH1 and especially GH2 have other handling and video advantages, but for your purposes the amazing value of the GH1 right now might be just right.

    Hope this helps, and apologies if I have made too many assumptions.

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    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Thanks Pelao,

    I think that I have not been keeping up with the µ4/3rd's cameras, it would seem.

    Looking over the specs, it seems that the GH1 has a multi-format sensor (which, from memory and it's too cold to get out of bed and look right now, I don't recall that the G1 has!).

    Does the GH1 have an improved EVF (over the G1, I mean)?

    And the G2 is also available for the same price, $399.

    What to do?

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    Thanks everyone. Responses in order:

    Allen: from what I read, the GH1 has the same multi-aspect larger sensor, too, and it is a steal right now (B&H, $399).

    Godfrey; I have not kept up on this aspect (finder) so which one of the G1 successors (apart from the G3) has a better finder?

    Pelao, I do not intend to print large from this camera; I have a Sony for that.

    Thanks everyone. Keep it coming! KL
    Hi Kit,

    The GH2 is a different sensor from the GH1 18mp vs 12mp. The GH2 is very close to the old 1Ds2 when you are looking at properly exposed file. The M4/3 format requires exposure to the right of the histogram because the small pixel pitch is somewhat prone to noise at higher ISO's. ISO 160- 1600 is very useable and the images have a smoother type of noise compared to Canons cross hatch. The Noise is easier to remove.

    Video output from the Gh2 is a generation ahead of the 5D2 and simply excellent. Most of the Panasonic lenses are quite good, you can also use M-mount lenses with adapters.

    Andrew
    Home page: www.aphotovid.com

    Check out my gear blog!

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    Does the GH1 have an improved EVF (over the G1, I mean)?
    side by side I can't see anything I'd call on ...

    I've done comparisons on the RAW data and didn't see anything much. Ultimately I just wanted to dabble in video, was thinking of the GF and got the GH1 at such a steal I just couldn't justify the GF to myself.

    The differences in sensor sizes aren't much btw

    all formats overlaid:


    and 16:9 vs 4:3 in particular


    taken with a Canon FD adapted lens (to ensure uniform coverage) in manual focus - extracted with dcraw to keep the full RAW pixel widths.

    Essentially if you crop down a 4:3 to a 16:9 you only loose that little bit on the sides (which you can see there easily)

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    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Andrew, the GH2 is out of my toy price range for now.

    pellicle, that's an incredibly handy comparison; thank you—should be a 'sticky'.

    If the G2 or GH1 does not have a better finder, then the advantage of the G2 over the G1 is the rear button. If it has the same finder, I will probably stick with the G1.

    Vivek mentioned this a while ago: it ia amazing how much Panny got right with the G1, which was the first version of this type of camera. Cheers to all, KL

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    wow the GH1 bodies are $399 now? I'm thinking of getting it and selling my GF1 then...

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    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Kit

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    pellicle, that's an incredibly handy comparison; thank you—should be a 'sticky'.
    glad you found it useful, its in a blog post here, the other salient information (quantatively thinking) is:
    * 4016 x 3016 Pixels (12.11 MPixels) (4:3)
    * 4144 x 2768 Pixels (11.47 MPixels) (3:2)
    * 4368 x 2464 Pixels (10.76 MPixels) (16:9)
    * 3008 x 3008 Pixels (9.05 MPixels) (1:1)

    The G1 was just such a great camera when released wasn't it! :-)

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    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    @ ywen: I owned the GF-1 (twice; I know!) and personally, I much prefer the form factor of the G1, its finder (much better than the GF-1, and the external shoe-mounted one makes the combination awkward to pocket, or to put in a small bag), and the rotating LCD—which I don't use very often, but which is invaluable for certain shots when I do.

    Can anyone comment on whether the finer of the G2 is any better than the G1? Right now. the G1 (apart from the front wheel) is looking like the bargain of the decade, especially with the 14 or the 20 on board, and I have one, so even better!

    Cheers to all, KL

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    I'm not positive but I think its the same. i think the GH2 and now the G3 are the MFts with the next gen EVF. I agree about the G1 but I am going for the G3 LOL to upgrade my G1 and GF1.

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    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    I will wait for your esteemed impressions before I do the same!

    And that new body is showing (as a pre-order) on B&H for only $599. That's a lot of camera for that money.

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    the G1 (apart from the front wheel) is
    what don't you like about the front wheel? I know I bump the switch a bit but being an EOS user sort of prefer it to the thumb (so I mean is it only a personal thing?)

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    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    I much prefer the form factor of the G1, its finder (much better than the GF-1, and the external shoe-mounted one makes the combination awkward to pocket, or to put in a small bag), and the rotating LCD—which I don't use very often, but which is invaluable for certain shots when I do.
    as someone who still harbours feelings that a GF-1 would be a good addtion I'd be interested to hear if you used the GF-1 with a compact prime and no hot shoe mounted EVF at all? I'm sort of thinking that that and a 14mm would make a good camera for keeping in my pack netting. Perhaps that way I could just trust the AF and that would enable me to not worry much about the rear screen (and my inability to see things closely sharply anymore)

    be keen to hear your thoughts on that (if you don't mind side tracking this thread a little...)

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Probably gh2 and after that gh1. If you shoot raw either is best of all micro or four thirds bodies. But looks like the g3 may very well be a notch better, though you don't get multiple aspect ratios without scalin like the gh1/gh2.

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    The G1 - bargain of the century? I guess that depends on whereabouts you're looking! I do see some good bargains overseas (like in the US). Though someone recently warned me about warranties from overseas and how tricky it can be to get your money back if something breaks down. Meanwhile, Ive been searching extensively for the G1 here in Australia and very few places have them anymore and those that do usually ask just over $1000 for them. I wish we had the bargains here.

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    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    what don't you like about the front wheel?
    Just a habit; I had my Nikons and the present Sony set up aperture priority, and use the thumb to adjust; some jobs exp. comp. on the same wheel.

    (if) you used the GF-1 with a compact prime and no hot shoe mounted EVF?
    I did, but holding a camera at arm's length doesn't work for me—I'd be better off with an LX-3 (which I have)—the GF-1 plus prime and no EVF is too close to a P&S in performance and use because of that, for me.

    warranties from overseas
    No problem if you are buying from B&S, in my experience: just send it back after getting a number from them. They are excellent to deal with, in my experience, and faster than getting a warranty claim from the local dealers.

    More later; cheers

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    No problem if you are buying from B&S, in my experience: just send it back after getting a number from them. They are excellent to deal with, in my experience, and faster than getting a warranty claim from the local dealers.

    More later; cheers
    Ah cool. Very tempting. Now the only thing that's worrying me about overseas transactions is Customs. Even if I buy something across the pond at a bargain price, Customs will no doubt demand some extra $$$ from me.

    A few years ago, I had bought a pro 3CCD analogue video camera from the US via eBay. Customs wanted their fair share from me, even though it was second hand and without any accessories and no lens, not brand new. I can't remember how much they wanted but it was a fair bit - over $50 or something like that, maybe even close to $100 or over - but I can't recall. And they were pretty vague about why they requested this amount. On the Customs label, after the tax and similar stuff, there is an additional $-grabber that simply reads: "Other charges." And apparently, if it was a digital video camera, I would have had to pay even more.

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Kit, since you've ruled out the GH2, I think it's good bet that the G3 will offer you the best still image quality and EVF.

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    @ tribal: no worries there, if under $1,000 AUD: it will simply sail in unencumbered. I do this on a weekly basis.

    @ Amin: that's what I'm hoping, and the price (as mentioned above) makes this a lot of camera, if you already have all the primes, as I do. I will take the G2 to a workshop I am presenting in Piacenza, and hopefully bring back a nice image or two. The G1 and the three primes fits in a tiny bag—imagine if I was taking the big Sony and the equivalent lenses! Cheers, KL
    Last edited by kit laughlin; 19th May 2011 at 00:49. Reason: typo

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    yep under 1k in Australia and your sweet =) I have only been hit with customs when i bought my laptop yrs ago which was way over 1k.

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Ah cool.

    My interest is also invested in the G2. Out of curiosity, do you still have the option of controlling / setting everything with the EVF (rather than the LCD screen) with the G2? If it retains that sort of flexibility from the G1, it looks like I'll probably be happy with the G2, along with it's image quality, from what Ive seen from samples.

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Quote Originally Posted by tribal-warrior View Post
    The G1 - bargain of the century? I guess that depends on whereabouts you're looking! I do see some good bargains overseas (like in the US). Though someone recently warned me about warranties from overseas and how tricky it can be to get your money back if something breaks down. Meanwhile, Ive been searching extensively for the G1 here in Australia and very few places have them anymore and those that do usually ask just over $1000 for them. I wish we had the bargains here.
    Ebay? I just picked up a mint used body here in the UK for £150. There are lots available, I was watching about 6 at the same time and there are still more going on. One of them went for £112.

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Saw a preview from an European website and Panasonic is pushing the new G3 sensor as better than the gh2 for high iso.. So it's very possible the g3 will be it the moment it cones out.

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Quote Originally Posted by davemillier View Post
    Ebay?
    Yea, Ive been scanning eBay for G1s but for a while, there was only one second hand one on Australia eBay. And with that particular auction, it stated ' No Returns Accepted.' Though another one has popped up now.

    Yea, not as common over here but with the second hand market, I guess it's a bit of a waiting game. I have bought heaps and heaps of film gear second hand but I'm a bit cautious with buying used digital equipment (something Ive never actually done before.)

    Anyhow, now I am tempted to bite the bullet and buy a brand new G2.

    Back to the topic at hand - it seems that many people on this forum are looking for improvements in high iso performance. That seems to be the driving focus of many individuals here. Whereas for my uses (mainly tripod-mounted time lapse of nature / landscapes) I'm more than happy with the sort of image quality that can be obtained at 'base iso.' There would likely be some occasions of course where I need to bump the iso up but for the most part, good IQ at 100iso is the keeper for me.
    Last edited by tribal-warrior; 19th May 2011 at 20:02.

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    I have a G2 and I find the IQ to be terrific. When it comes to IQ, I see the test results and clearly the GH1 and GH1 are better but in practical terms how much better are they? Despite being told that the G2 is inferior image wise to the GF1, GH1 and GH2 I have to say that I find the images to be quite good and I print my work up to 13x19 and I have never had an image come out that I thought was problematic because of the G2's lack of IQ (because of my lack of skill yes but not the camera's fault).

    FWIW, when I bought I was choosing between the GH1 and the G2 and the difference for me was the ergonomics. I really liked the way the G2 felt in my hand and it was little things like the thumbwheel that made a big difference for me.

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    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Diane, on the eve of my return from Italy (with less shots than I wanted; Vivek's charger is lost in the Italian system, somewhere...), please post here when you get the G3, even if you start a thread elsewhere!

    And that new Leica 25/1.4 looks good...

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    Senior Member Tesselator's Avatar
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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Just to jump in at the middle, I'd say the GH2 was the best as well. It is hair splitting but most comparisons between photo gear are. People typically pay huge amounts of money for those hairs. It's like the difference between the Macro-Elmarit-R 60/2.8 and the Micro-Nikkor 55/2.8 The differences are perhaps even less than hairs but the people will pay $1,400 more for the Elmarit. Conclusion: hairs are expensive? Or maybe those slight differences are pretty much all anyone is ever talking about when they say this or that bit of photo gear is "superior", exceptional, or better? In any case, judging from the results I've seen on-line I think the GH2 has enough hairs to justify the recommendation and the purchase. I keep bidding on them myself but they always go over the $500 mark and I'm too cheap to bid any higher. The last one I bid on sold at $550... I'm kicking myself for that... I should have gone for it!

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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Forgot about this thread, Kit. Several of us have G3, Terri, Uwe and myself I know for sure. Very happy with mine. I'm considering the 25/1.4 as well. I've been shooting with my FD or Nikkor 24/2.8 just to be sure the FL is one I'll use a lot. I do know my 50/1.4 is on my 5D quite a lot so I don't know why I wouldn't feel I would use the FL a lot LOL.

    Diane

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    Re: 25/1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    I'm considering the 25/1.4 as well. I've been shooting with my FD or Nikkor 24/2.8 just to be sure the FL is one I'll use a lot. I do know my 50/1.4 is on my 5D quite a lot so I don't know why I wouldn't feel I would use the FL a lot LOL.
    My 50/1.4 Nikkor is on my D700 most of the time. Would really appreciate your opinions on the 25/1.4 when you get it. Thanks.

  37. #37
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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    For the money, you can't beat the G1. I had the G2 for a while and sold it. The touch screen actually slowed me down because I would accidentally touch it and set a focus point I didn't want and there is no way to disable that. G3 has the same problem. Also, I thought I would like the the rear dial but I found it to be harder and more awkward to use than the front one. The GH-* models are nice for vacation and family shots (and video) but I found having your eye up to the built-in EVF of the G1 essential to reducing camera shake.

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    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Jim, I have the G1, and the 20/1.7 is on it most of the time. And I agree completely re. EVF, and that's what I use most of the time, too.

    I will be interested in reports on the 25/1.4, though. It will have to be very good to be better than the 20/1.7!

    Cheers to all, KL

  39. #39
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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim88 View Post
    For the money, you can't beat the G1. I had the G2 for a while and sold it. The touch screen actually slowed me down because I would accidentally touch it and set a focus point I didn't want and there is no way to disable that. G3 has the same problem. Also, I thought I would like the the rear dial but I found it to be harder and more awkward to use than the front one. The GH-* models are nice for vacation and family shots (and video) but I found having your eye up to the built-in EVF of the G1 essential to reducing camera shake.
    Oops. I meant GF-* not GH-*.

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    Senior Member DHart's Avatar
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    Re: What is the best Panasonic body for stills?

    Even with the G3 out now, I believe the GH2 may still reign as the m4/3 body with the highest quality still image and the lowest noise at higher ISOs. I have the GH2 and the G3 and the G3 is very close to the performance of the GH2, but if high ISO and low noise is your desire, the GH2 probably is still the king. At ISO 800 and below, and web use primarily, you probably won't see much if any difference between the RAWs from the G3 and the GH2. As for OOC JPGs (which I prefer not to use), the G3 may edge out the GH2 for colors.
    Don

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