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Thread: Getting to know the G3

  1. #101
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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Well before you order a black one PM me because I would love to swap an unopened black for a brown. I just couldn't buy a brown body only and lord knows I don't need another kit lens.

  2. #102
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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    I have the same issue. I have a G1 from Dec 08 and a GF1 much less used with aux EVF. I'm trying to get my husband to like one of them and give up his G9 but so far nada LOL. I really don't need 3 bodies but I do want to keep 2. Not sure which but guessing it will be the GF1 since it easily tucks into a corner in my bag for travel. Unfortunately the G1 won't bring much and it doesn't give me much incentive to try hard to sell it LOL.

    Diane

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    g3 and 14-140. Boy this is a handy combo to take anywhere.

    Boats put kids of all ages to sleep.....
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    www.finesart.com

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Yeah,
    I do like the 14-140 combined with the G3. But I also like the 14, 20, 9-18 on it LOL

    Nice tonality on the B&W

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Fines View Post
    g3 and 14-140. Boy this is a handy combo to take anywhere.

    Boats put kids of all ages to sleep.....
    Nice shot, great in B&W.

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Started a thread in DPR on G3 RAW files in case anyone's interested - I won't repeat it here but if you want to check it out, it's here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...hread=39052289

    Cheers,
    -- Joe

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Thanks Joe. I did see it and should have left a comment. Since I'm a longtime LR user hoping they update soon.

    Diane

  8. #108
    Senior Member RonSmith's Avatar
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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    The G3 seems to work alright with the 100-300.

    I downloaded a trial version of Capture One to do RAW files. Not sure I like it all that much. Still looking forward to ACR.


    20110806 073a by Ronald S. Smith, on Flickr
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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    I'm eagerly awaiting the refresh to LR3 for this camera! The JPGs look pretty good, but I know there's a lot more IQ lurking in the RAWs. Until LR refreshes, I'm capturing in both RAW and JPG, whereas normally I don't even bother with JPGs.
    Don

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Don, I'm doing the same. I haven't done much serious shooting since its just abysmal weather with near and above 100 since I got the G3. Though I live in the western foothills of NC and still def. "South" this is pretty unseasonal for us even when I get into the mts. Looks like a patch of cooler next week so really looking forward to getting out for some good shooting and hope LR upgrade isn't far behind.

    Diane

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Very nice shot Ron.

    I'm trying to like ;-)

    Cheers,
    -- Joe

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  12. #112
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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Don, I'm doing the same. I haven't done much serious shooting since its just abysmal weather with near and above 100 since I got the G3. Though I live in the western foothills of NC and still def. "South" this is pretty unseasonal for us even when I get into the mts. Looks like a patch of cooler next week so really looking forward to getting out for some good shooting and hope LR upgrade isn't far behind.

    Diane
    Diane... my sympathies are with you and much of the country with the heat and drought and what not. Fortunately, here in the Pacific NorthWest... ohhh... never mind! I do hope the climate gets a whole lot better for all of you folks who are suffering in it these days. Meantime... how 'bout a road trip to cooler climes?
    Don

    "Be kind, everyone you encounter is fighting battles you have no awareness of."

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Everytime I think I don't want the 100-300 someone posts a lovely shot with it. Very nice.

    Diane

    Quote Originally Posted by RonSmith View Post
    The G3 seems to work alright with the 100-300.

    I downloaded a trial version of Capture One to do RAW files. Not sure I like it all that much. Still looking forward to ACR.


    20110806 073a by Ronald S. Smith, on Flickr

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    It sounds dreadful!
    Yes, seconds thoughts too on buying G3
    Eduardo

    Quote Originally Posted by curious80 View Post
    Great shots ustein!

    I tried the G3 at a store yesterday and was pretty frustrated by the absence of the eye sensor for switching LCD/EVF. Take a shot, then try to review at the LCD - nops there is no image there. Take a shot then try to change some settings - nops there is nothing on the LCD to allow changing the settings. OK, so I switch to LCD, change the settings, and lift the camera to the eye to take a picture - aaargh there is no view in the viewfinder.

    I was fairly interested in G3 but having serious doubts now. Are you G3 users finding that you get used to this explicit need to switch? Looks to me that I can never get used to it and it will drive me crazy!

  15. #115
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    >Take a shot, then try to review at the LCD - nops there is no image there.

    I review via play and this can be forced to the LCD.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Not the way I'm shooting.

    1) I don't review every shot
    2) I have the camera set that when I want to review I press the playback button and the camera auto switches to the LCD. Tap shutter goes back to EVF.
    3) I don't always change the settings on the LCD. All changes can be made when you looming through the EVF. The button placement on the camera is pretty easy to remember.

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Uwe, Terry: Now, it doesn't sound as bad. Pardon my ignorance. I'm totally new to the system (never seen one in person) and I'm forced to comprehend these things through your posts and translating to spanish.
    What is exactly the difference between your 2 methods to overcome the lack of switch sensor?
    Thanks
    Eduardo


    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Not the way I'm shooting.

    1) I don't review every shot
    2) I have the camera set that when I want to review I press the playback button and the camera auto switches to the LCD. Tap shutter goes back to EVF.
    3) I don't always change the settings on the LCD. All changes can be made when you looming through the EVF. The button placement on the camera is pretty easy to remember.

  18. #118
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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    No difference.

    There is a setting on the camera called Play on LCD. It is on or off.
    Set to on:
    Whenever you press the playback button the LCD is activated and that is where the image is played back
    Set to Off:
    When you press playback the image will be on whatever was active at the time either LCD or EVF
    To cancel playback the fastest way is just to tap the shutter. When you cancel playback:
    The image will return to the EVF if you that is what you were using when you started the playback and you have play on LCD set to on.

  19. #119
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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    No difference.

    There is a setting on the camera called Play on LCD. It is on or off.
    Set to on:
    Whenever you press the playback button the LCD is activated and that is where the image is played back
    Set to Off:
    When you press playback the image will be on whatever was active at the time either LCD or EVF
    To cancel playback the fastest way is just to tap the shutter. When you cancel playback:
    The image will return to the EVF if you that is what you were using when you started the playback and you have play on LCD set to on.

    Not perfect but works fine.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Ok. Let's see.
    I would not want the camera's evf to show playback after shot. I want to shoot the picture and keep on looking live. Just like in an SLR, just this time happens to be an electronic image. Maybe a flicker or brief black screen at the moment of pressing the shutter.
    Is this possible and how?

    If the above is a possible setup:
    Without leaving this mode is it possible to take a picture and move my eyesight to the LCD to review the shot without pushing any button?

    In other words, I am just wanting the camera to behave like a DSLR. But only and specifically during these 2 circumstances.

    Possible?
    TIA
    Eduardo



    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    Not perfect but works fine.

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    Not perfect but works fine.
    Agreed. This is how mine is set up and I don't even think much about it. It just functions.

    Diane

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Yes, by using burst mode in M/middle speed there is no blackout. Its how I often shoot but just shoot as though its single shot. Auto review is automatically turned off.

    To review you have to select the review button.

    Diane

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    Ok. Let's see.
    I would not want the camera's evf to show playback after shot. I want to shoot the picture and keep on looking live. Just like in an SLR, just this time happens to be an electronic image. Maybe a flicker or brief black screen at the moment of pressing the shutter.
    Is this possible and how?

    If the above is a possible setup:
    Without leaving this mode is it possible to take a picture and move my eyesight to the LCD to review the shot without pushing any button?

    In other words, I am just wanting the camera to behave like a DSLR. But only and specifically during these 2 circumstances.

    Possible?
    TIA
    Eduardo

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Thanks Diane.
    Just the review button? No need to push lcd/evf switch button before?
    Eduardo


    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Yes, by using burst mode in M/middle speed there is no blackout. Its how I often shoot but just shoot as though its single shot. Auto review is automatically turned off.

    To review you have to select the review button.

    Diane

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    Thanks Diane.
    Just the review button? No need to push lcd/evf switch button before?
    Eduardo
    If you use the EVF, I strongly advise keeping auto review set to off. Otherwise the picture you just took pops up in the EVF which is really disruptive to shooting.

    Even if you leave auto review on there is no way to set the camera that the immediate picture review is automatically on the LCD

    Diane, Uwe and I all have it set up the same way. We all shoot through the EVF. We have auto review set to OFF. We all have Play on LCD set to ON.

    If we want to review a shot we push the playback button. The camera will show that image on the LCD. You do NOT need to hit the EVF/LCD button. When you are done reviewing the shot, bring the camera back to eye level and a light touch on the shutter will have the picture back on the EVF again without touching the LCD/EVF button.

    The only time I need to use the LCD/EVF button is when I want to switch from shooting through the EVF to shooting from the LCD or if I want to make changes to the camera settings and I want to do this on the LCD rather than through the EVF.

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    If you use the EVF, I strongly advise keeping auto review set to off. Otherwise the picture you just took pops up in the EVF which is really disruptive to shooting.

    Even if you leave auto review on there is no way to set the camera that the immediate picture review is automatically on the LCD

    Diane, Uwe and I all have it set up the same way. We all shoot through the EVF. We have auto review set to OFF. We all have Play on LCD set to ON.

    If we want to review a shot we push the playback button. The camera will show that image on the LCD. You do NOT need to hit the EVF/LCD button. When you are done reviewing the shot, bring the camera back to eye level and a light touch on the shutter will have the picture back on the EVF again without touching the LCD/EVF button.


    The only time I need to use the LCD/EVF button is when I want to switch from shooting through the EVF to shooting from the LCD or if I want to make changes to the camera settings and I want to do this on the LCD rather than through the EVF.
    ^^^^^ in BI ^^^^^^

    That is how a DSLR would work in most cases.... no EVF preview, but preview on the LCD... only difference, is that in a DSLR, the preview, if turned on, would be on the LCD right after the shoot automatically.

    Makes using the G3 much faster to capture fast moving subjects on the fly. That is how my G3 is set up also.

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Thank you guys. I think I got the feeling of it. Small thing to do for reviewing a pic. I guess I wouldn't mind.
    I assume that if kept the same way, the LCD won't interrupt live image after a shot, it will resume live image immediately.
    The key is to set auto-review to OFF. Simple!
    Or do you have a certain setup when shooting out of the LCD? Just wondering.
    Thanks
    Eduardo
    Last edited by Uaiomex; 7th August 2011 at 16:49. Reason: added

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    Thank you guys. I think I got the feeling of it. Small thing to do for reviewing a pic. I guess I wouldn't mind.
    I assume that if kept the same way, the LCD won't interrupt live image after a shot, it will resume live image immediately.
    The key is to set auto-review to OFF. Simple!
    Or do you have a certain setup when shooting out of the LCD? Just wondering.
    Thanks
    Eduardo
    Push the [EVF/LCD] button for LCD viewing:
    With the LCD preview [off], there is no interruption between shoots. When you are ready to preview, you will push the [play] button as usual, and tap the shutter button to get back to live-view.

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Got it! One big step closer to getting a G3.
    Thanks
    Eduardo


    Quote Originally Posted by M5-Guy View Post
    Push the [EVF/LCD] button for LCD viewing:
    With the LCD preview [off], there is no interruption between shoots. When you are ready to preview, you will push the [play] button as usual, and tap the shutter button to get back to live-view.

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    terry,
    are you still shooting your X100 or do you feel the G3 IQ is on par with the Fuji X100?
    Steven Kornreich
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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    terry,
    are you still shooting your X100 or do you feel the G3 IQ is on par with the Fuji X100?
    I've been getting ready for a trip to Africa so I've been working with the kit I'm taking with me. I will make any gear decisions once I'm back.

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I've been getting ready for a trip to Africa so I've been working with the kit I'm taking with me. I will make any gear decisions once I'm back.
    So am I, and a number of other people, mostly from the Leica User's Group (e-mail). 5 couples. 3 are taking large Nikon gear (200-400/4, 300/2.8 & D3, D700) and 2 of us are going with m43. Main camera will be GH2 with G1 & G3 extra/backup and a bunch of lenses (all the Panasonics and the Olymppus 12/2). Still only about as big and heavy as a D700 with a 70-200. Comparisons with my big Canon stuff convinced me that the Panasonics are the way to go.

    Henning

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Quote Originally Posted by henningw View Post
    So am I, and a number of other people, mostly from the Leica User's Group (e-mail). 5 couples. 3 are taking large Nikon gear (200-400/4, 300/2.8 & D3, D700) and 2 of us are going with m43. Main camera will be GH2 with G1 & G3 extra/backup and a bunch of lenses (all the Panasonics and the Olymppus 12/2). Still only about as big and heavy as a D700 with a 70-200. Comparisons with my big Canon stuff convinced me that the Panasonics are the way to go.

    Henning
    Exactly - I'm going with GH2 and two G3's and I have an XZ1 in my safari short pocket. I am the only one with m4/3 and my whole kit weighs about what my friends 800mm lens weighs.

    100-300
    14-140
    14-54 f2.8-3.5 (Oly 4/3)
    9-18
    14
    20

    I was hoping the 25mm or 45mm would have been available but no such luck.
    I could try and go and get a 12mm today but I don't really think I will need that wide very much.

  33. #133
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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Exactly - I'm going with GH2 and two G3's and I have an XZ1 in my safari short pocket. I am the only one with m4/3 and my whole kit weighs about what my friends 800mm lens weighs.

    100-300
    14-140
    14-54 f2.8-3.5 (Oly 4/3)
    9-18
    14
    20

    I was hoping the 25mm or 45mm would have been available but no such luck.
    I could try and go and get a 12mm today but I don't really think I will need that wide very much.
    I would get the 12 and mount it fix on one of the G3's

  34. #134
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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Terry... I think the 12 (24mm equiv.) would be indispensible. Although, you do have the 9-18 which will give you that and more, and the 14 so..... ah, I'm sure you'll be fine without the 12. ;-)
    Don

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    My goal is to changes lenses as little as possible. That being said, it is in stock at the dealer.

  36. #136
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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    I was not able to resist the call of the 12. Should be here, courtesy of B&H, with a GF3 on Monday... can't wait!
    Don

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    I winder how usefull a faster lens is for 4/3 in the wideangle range.
    Also have the 9-18, and the 14 over the weekend and the 12 I can check out on Monday.
    Now the 14 has the advantage of very small size and a very flexible focal length vs the 12 the more dynamic focal length, slightly faster, maybe optically slightly better?, but IMO pretty high priced for what it is.

    For the 20 or a 45 I see it much more usefull to have a faster lens than in the wide angle area.

  38. #138
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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Certainly a 45 or a 20 might seem more suitable focal lengths for a fast lens, but in dim interiors and for keeping higher shutter speeds in lower light street situations, as well as for more dramatic focus isolation with the subject very close to lens and a distant BG blurred, the fast wide angle is wonderful. For some people, the fast 12 is a very desirable option and well within the realm of affordable. Of course, it's an expensive lens. So that will make it less of an option for some folks who may prefer the 14 as a more generally affordable wide angle option.
    Don

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    The 12 seems like a great lens, both in performance and design. I have spent considerably more than it's price on past lenses. For me it's about value, and for what I shoot, and how shoot, the 12 price is not good value. It's a little wide for me, and from what I can see not significantly better than my 14.

    If I needed the the 12 I would certainly try it, but less than 30% of my shots are that wide, and f2.5 is enough for me too. I print large, and am of the opinion that the 14 is actually not an OK, affordable lens, but actually a bit of a marvel and a steal.

    Overall though, I am delighted at the growth in choice. I have been shooting M4/3 for nearly two years, and the camera situation is reasonable. I can see that evolving nicely. For me it's about the lenses, and it's looking pretty good.

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    I'm trusting my original analysis and not getting the 12 for right now. I'd rather spend the money on the 25 and 45 when they are released. I want the new 45mm to be a good lens or I can rebuy the 45 macro.

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I'm trusting my original analysis and not getting the 12 for right now. I'd rather spend the money on the 25 and 45 when they are released. I want the new 45mm to be a good lens or I can rebuy the 45 macro.
    I too hope the 45 is good. That's one thing I am lacking - an AF prime in the 75 - 90 range.

    The 25 is, I think, a certain target for me, but it's a 45 first. I will likely upgrade my camera in the next 6 months, and want to see what the rumored GF is like.

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    I've thought of selling my 45 macro and buying the 45/1.8 but rethought that. I use the 45 quite a lot for closeups and macro and I have a Hexanon 40/1.8 as well as a fast 50 so still have the 25 in my sights instead. I do wonder if I will shoot with it more than the 20 and not sure if I need both. But....I'm so remiss when it comes to getting around to selling gear that I would likely have both for a good while LOL. Its just would I carry both?!?!? If I ever get a fast mid range zoom then that would solve things. I hate to buy the Oly 4/3---hoping that either Panny or Oly will announce the MFT 12-50/2.8-3.5 soon.

    Diane

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    If I ever get a fast mid range zoom then that would solve things. I hate to buy the Oly 4/3---hoping that either Panny or Oly will announce the MFT 12-50/2.8-3.5 soon.

    Diane
    I really wanted a fast midrange zoom and tried to wait it out as long as I could. But I ran out of time and just bought the 4/3 14-54 f2.8-3.5. I tried very hard to be disciplined and get a good price. Doesn't seem like there are a lot of them around, hard to find a used version II. Mostly everyone was at full $599 list. I did finally find that Unique Photo in NJ had them listed for $499 and I bought it. The lens isn't too big (sort of like the 14-140). What gives me a lot of hope is looking at that lens if you were to scale it back for m4/3 you can get a fast enough lens at a relatively good size. Not as teeny as the little Oly kit lens but certainly a lens size that people wanting a fast lens can live with.

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I really wanted a fast midrange zoom and tried to wait it out as long as I could. But I ran out of time and just bought the 4/3 14-54 f2.8-3.5. I tried very hard to be disciplined and get a good price. Doesn't seem like there are a lot of them around, hard to find a used version II. Mostly everyone was at full $599 list. I did finally find that Unique Photo in NJ had them listed for $499 and I bought it. The lens isn't too big (sort of like the 14-140). What gives me a lot of hope is looking at that lens if you were to scale it back for m4/3 you can get a fast enough lens at a relatively good size. Not as teeny as the little Oly kit lens but certainly a lens size that people wanting a fast lens can live with.
    How about AF speed and accuracy?

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    It isn't speedy but seems OK and the G3 has picture in picture for easier MF or MF fine tuning. Where the 14-45 doesn't work very well is touch focus where faster focus is important to avoid camera shake in the focus --> shoot process.

    I look at this solution as a stop gap and tried to figure how much it was going to cost me if I bought the 14-54 and then needed to sell it. Also, the 14-54 is supposed to be better balanced on the m4/3 cameras than the 12-60 and it was a less expensive "gamble".

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    It isn't speedy but seems OK and the G3 has picture in picture for easier MF or MF fine tuning. Where the 14-45 doesn't work very well is touch focus where faster focus is important to avoid camera shake in the focus --> shoot process.

    I look at this solution as a stop gap and tried to figure how much it was going to cost me if I bought the 14-54 and then needed to sell it. Also, the 14-54 is supposed to be better balanced on the m4/3 cameras than the 12-60 and it was a less expensive "gamble".
    The balance must for sure be better than the relatively big and heavy 12-60. I also would not assume that the 12-60 focuses faster. These 43 lenses are really optimized for 43 cameras and their AF, but not for M43. I also think that AF speed improvement of 43 on M43 is not going to happen, because it seems not possible.

    I learned that the expensive way with my 14-35 and 35-100, both excellent lenses producing stunning results, but AF is almost not useable on any M43 body I tried - GH2, EP2 and even EP3.

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Peter I know how the lens would focus before I bought it. I agree the 4/3 will never focus as well. They were never built for full time CDAF and were optimized for PDAF. Panasonic has many of the basic lenses covered and now they can concentrate on round two and up the ante on lens speed etc. I say Panny as I want OIS lenses.

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    I didn't have an awesome trip like yours staring me in the face giving me a time limit so I'm okay with waiting a bit. If one doesn't get announced by the first of the year though I will rethink it. From your thoughts I'm sure I will be fine with it--doesn't have to be teeny but built for the m4/3, esp. by Panny, it will be optimized for corrections too plus I won't have to use the adapter with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I really wanted a fast midrange zoom and tried to wait it out as long as I could. But I ran out of time and just bought the 4/3 14-54 f2.8-3.5. I tried very hard to be disciplined and get a good price. Doesn't seem like there are a lot of them around, hard to find a used version II. Mostly everyone was at full $599 list. I did finally find that Unique Photo in NJ had them listed for $499 and I bought it. The lens isn't too big (sort of like the 14-140). What gives me a lot of hope is looking at that lens if you were to scale it back for m4/3 you can get a fast enough lens at a relatively good size. Not as teeny as the little Oly kit lens but certainly a lens size that people wanting a fast lens can live with.

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Guys: I did it. I bought today a black G3 with kit lens. I will start reading the pdf manual after this post. Very excited. I tried it at the store and I loved the way it autofocused (live view). Got a great deal. Couldn't resist anymore.
    I kind of freaked at holding it. It feels like its going to slip out my hand. It only felt safe if resting the lens and body over my left palm. I think practice will make this issue disappear. What do you think? I know some photographers familiar with the GH2 noticed this. I tried the Canon 600D and it felt wonderful in my hands. Too bad it can't AF in video. I'm 58. Suffice to say I can't focus with my 5D2 LCD.
    Salud everybody!
    Eduardo

    P.S. I just noticed the kit lens hs no IS switch. Is it on always?
    Last edited by Uaiomex; 18th August 2011 at 18:42. Reason: finger error

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    Re: Getting to know the G3

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    Guys: I did it. I bought today a black G3 with kit lens. I will start reading the pdf manual after this post. Very excited. I tried it at the store and I loved the way it autofocused (live view). Got a great deal. Couldn't resist anymore.
    I kind of freaked at holding it. It feels like its going to slip out my hand. It only felt safe if resting the lens and body over my left palm. I think practice will make this issue disappear. What do you think? I know some photographers familiar with the GH2 noticed this. I tried the Canon 600D and it felt wonderful in my hands. Too bad it can't AF in video. I'm 58. Suffice to say I can't focus with my 5D2 LCD.
    Salud everybody!
    Eduardo

    P.S. I just noticed the kit lens hs no IS switch. Is it on always?
    Congrats on the G3...
    On AF with Video, with the G3, you will like the different ways you can AF

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