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Thread: It figures: No sooner does the Oly 12mm arrive than I dig-out my Voigtlander 12mm...

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    It figures: No sooner does the Oly 12mm arrive than I dig-out my Voigtlander 12mm...

    and fall in love with it all over again. Perhaps the best thing about it is that mine is the N.L.A. Nikon F-mount version, so I can use it on a shift adapter (the Fotodiox one, except modified to achieve infinity focus) and correct perspective optically pre-exposure instead of digitally post-exposure. It's nowhere near as sharp and contrasty as the Olympus, to be sure, but it has an appealing character nonetheless. Here are a half-dozen photos I took with it earlier this week for my SoFoBoMo 2011 project...
    Last edited by Audii-Dudii; 20th August 2011 at 07:05.

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    Re: It figures: No sooner does the Oly 12mm arrive than I dig-out my Voigtlander 12mm

    The photos from Tempe Lake are fantastic! That sounds like a very interesting rig. I hope that you post more. I used the CV 15mm on my G1 a few years ago and found it lacking, but I know that the CV 12mm is a sharper lens. I would love to be able to add a tilt-shift to my m 4/3. I really like my Panasonic 7-14mm, but it does require post correction.

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    Re: It figures: No sooner does the Oly 12mm arrive than I dig-out my Voigtlander 12mm

    Don't you dare get my ultra-ultra-wide jones itching! =8^0

    Nice stuff. The M-bayonet version of this lens is on my "wait until i am sure" list for the GXR ...

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    Re: It figures: No sooner does the Oly 12mm arrive than I dig-out my Voigtlander 12mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    The photos from Tempe Lake are fantastic!
    Thanks for the kind words, although these are not photos from the Tempe Town Lake area. Instead, they are photos of the Portales building and parking garage (formerly known as the Finova building prior to their bankruptcy a decade-ish ago), which is where I work and which is located on the southwest corner of Scottsdale and Chaparral Roads in Scottsdale, just north of the Fashion Square mall.

    That sounds like a very interesting rig. I hope that you post more. I used the CV 15mm on my G1 a few years ago and found it lacking, but I know that the CV 12mm is a sharper lens.
    I originally bought the CV12 for use on my 4/3-format Panasonic DMC-L1 and I bought the Nikon F-mount version because the Leica M-bayonet version wouldn't have worked for that application. At the time, I had no idea that Panasonic and Olympus would soon be introducing m4/3 bodies with a lens register that was considerably shorter still, but in retrospect, my decision to buy the F-mount version has proved to be a stroke of genius because today it means I'm able to have a very good shift lens with an effective 24mm focal length. (Note: The Olympus 12/f2 is technically a better lens and it's quite a bit sharper, with more contrast, than the CV12. I wouldn't want to be without one of these, either, and it's nice to finally have the choice.)

    That said, I'm puzzled by your comment about the CV12 being sharper than the CV15, as I owned one of those as well for a while and my conclusion was exactly the opposite. Sample to sample variation or ??? Alas, I sold it because I wasn't using it, so I can't compare them. However, earlier this week, I bought another N.O.S. CV15 and I can compare this one to my CV12 when it arrives sometime next week. Stay tuned...

    I would love to be able to add a tilt-shift to my m 4/3. I really like my Panasonic 7-14mm, but it does require post correction.
    I also have the 4/3-format Olympus 7-14 and wouldn't want to be without it so long as I own an m4/3 body, but its lack of "shiftiness" is a major deficiency for architectural work. I rarely need front tilt, but some rear tilt would be nice and one of these days, if I ever get around to building my own shift adapter, I'll incorporate this function into it. (FWIW, the Fotodiox adapter is too thick to allow the CV12 and CV15 lenses to focus at infinity, but I found that it's fairly easy to fix this if you're reasonably handy and are willing to invest the time to get it just right. The tricky part of assembling a rig like mine is getting your hands on the lenses, as they're not exactly thick on the ground these days...)

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    Re: It figures: No sooner does the Oly 12mm arrive than I dig-out my Voigtlander 12mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Don't you dare get my ultra-ultra-wide jones itching! =8^0
    Hah! If it's any consolation, I love a good ultra-wide angle perspective as much as the next guy, but with an effective focal length of 24mm, 12mm lenses in the m4/3 format barely qualify as ultra-wide.

    Nice stuff. The M-bayonet version of this lens is on my "wait until i am sure" list for the GXR ...
    FYI, the max shift on both the E-P1 and GF1 bodies is approx. 7mm, at which point, there is fairly serious vignetting over the last quarter of the frame. This is great when it happens to be the sky, but with the GXR's longer 3:2 format, I expect you'll see some amount of vignetting even without any shift. This is easy to fix digitally, of course, but just thought I'd point it out in case you need any help keeping your jonesing for a CV12 at bay...

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    Re: It figures: No sooner does the Oly 12mm arrive than I dig-out my Voigtlander 12mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Audii-Dudii View Post
    Thanks for the kind words, although these are not photos from the Tempe Town Lake area. Instead, they are photos of the Portales building and parking garage (formerly known as the Finova building prior to their bankruptcy a decade-ish ago), which is where I work and which is located on the southwest corner of Scottsdale and Chaparral Roads in Scottsdale, just north of the Fashion Square mall.



    I originally bought the CV12 for use on my 4/3-format Panasonic DMC-L1 and I bought the Nikon F-mount version because the Leica M-bayonet version wouldn't have worked for that application. At the time, I had no idea that Panasonic and Olympus would soon be introducing m4/3 bodies with a lens register that was considerably shorter still, but in retrospect, my decision to buy the F-mount version has proved to be a stroke of genius because today it means I'm able to have a very good shift lens with an effective 24mm focal length. (Note: The Olympus 12/f2 is technically a better lens and it's quite a bit sharper, with more contrast, than the CV12. I wouldn't want to be without one of these, either, and it's nice to finally have the choice.)

    That said, I'm puzzled by your comment about the CV12 being sharper than the CV15, as I owned one of those as well for a while and my conclusion was exactly the opposite. Sample to sample variation or ??? Alas, I sold it because I wasn't using it, so I can't compare them. However, earlier this week, I bought another N.O.S. CV15 and I can compare this one to my CV12 when it arrives sometime next week. Stay tuned...



    I also have the 4/3-format Olympus 7-14 and wouldn't want to be without it so long as I own an m4/3 body, but its lack of "shiftiness" is a major deficiency for architectural work. I rarely need front tilt, but some rear tilt would be nice and one of these days, if I ever get around to building my own shift adapter, I'll incorporate this function into it. (FWIW, the Fotodiox adapter is too thick to allow the CV12 and CV15 lenses to focus at infinity, but I found that it's fairly easy to fix this if you're reasonably handy and are willing to invest the time to get it just right. The tricky part of assembling a rig like mine is getting your hands on the lenses, as they're not exactly thick on the ground these days...)
    My experience was with M mount CV 12mm and 15mm on M8. I sold the 12mm when I sold my M8. I found 12mm sharper than the 15mm on M8, but both were very nice lenses. I kept the 15mm for a while and used it on G1, but found it to not be too sharp, so maybe I did not have the best sample.

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    Re: It figures: No sooner does the Oly 12mm arrive than I dig-out my Voigtlander 12mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Audii-Dudii View Post
    (the Fotodiox one, except modified to achieve infinity focus)
    How did you modify the adapter to get it to achieve infinity focus?

    I am facing the same issue with mine, and am looking at using a metal lathe that has enough precision to remove the slight excess metal. The rim and the mount are going to require just a very marginal amount of material removal to achieve infinity focus while preserving the overall structure of the mount.

    if you have a better way, I would love to hear it.

    Thanks,

    Doug

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    Re: It figures: No sooner does the Oly 12mm arrive than I dig-out my Voigtlander 12mm

    Quote Originally Posted by greypilgrim View Post
    How did you modify the adapter to get it to achieve infinity focus?

    I am facing the same issue with mine, and am looking at using a metal lathe that has enough precision to remove the slight excess metal. The rim and the mount are going to require just a very marginal amount of material removal to achieve infinity focus while preserving the overall structure of the mount.

    if you have a better way, I would love to hear it.
    Trimming it on a lathe is the preferred way, obviously, but in my case, seeing that I had to remove only approx. .1mm (.004"), I decided instead to simply sand the two halves of the adapter to the desired thickness. If you have access to a lathe, I'd suggest you do it that way, but as I recently lost access to the lathe I'd been using, I decided to give this approach a shot. Worst case, I'd be out the $110 I paid for the adapter and would have to start over with another one...

    Using a thick piece of glass to insure a flat work surface, I used spray adhesive to attach several small pieces of emery cloth (ranging from medium to extra fine) and a piece of 1000-grit sandpaper, and then made several circular passes over each grade with each half, being careful to rotate them slightly every few passes and using as even an amount of pressure as I could manage so the excess material was removed equally. (You can gauge how equally you're applying pressure by watching how equally the black finish is removed from each side; if one side is becoming shiny aluminum at a quicker rate than the other, then you're applying pressure unequally.)

    I worked slowly and used a pair of digital calipers to measure the thickness of each piece in several places after each pass to be certain that I didn't remove too much material or get out of square. (In fact, the two pieces, as delivered, are slightly skewed -- i.e., thicker on one side than the other -- I believe, to compensate for the upward pressure applied by the ball-and-spring used for the detents. Alternatively, they are not machined to very tight tolerances, but since the skew on each piece was matched to the other piece, I believe this was done intentionally. Anyway, because I removed the ball-and-spring -- I find the detents to be annoying and not useful -- I removed the skew by sanding those sides a bit more (by sanding with one side on the paper and the other side over the glass) and ultimately made both pieces "square.")

    Because making the halves thinner also makes the dovetail portion less wide, you have to carefully adjust the tightness of the dovetail clamp that holds the assembly together to minimize any play in the mechanism. Fortunately, I found there was enough play in the holes and rebates for the clamp's two mounting screws that it was only necessary to use a small screwdriver to lever them into the correct position while carefully tightening the screws. Although it took a few attempts, I was able to dial-in enough resistance so the thumbscrew stop is no longer needed, but not so much that I can't still move the lens with the pressure from a single finger while holding the camera in my hand.

    Oh, and because sanding the aluminum removed the black finish, I used a permanent marker to "paint" it black again because this was the easiest way to accomplish this without adding any significant thickness to the surfaces.

    All in all, it took maybe two hours from start to finish, including making at least a dozen trials to verify that I'd not yet removed enough material. (And if you do somehow screw things up and make the adapter slightly too thin, this isn't the end of the world as it only means you can't flip the lever all the way to its stop to focus at infinity, but will now have to pull it back from there ever-so-slightly.)

    I have been asked to write up this procedure and illustrate it with step-by-step photos by another blogger and had hoped to do so this weekend, but since I have just bought a CV15 lens, I've decided to wait until it arrives and see how it focuses first. If I can, I'd like to be able to use just one adapter between both lenses, so I don't want to do anything further to this one just yet...

    Anyway, I know I've gone on at some length here -- my apologies if I oversimplified (or overcomplicated!) anything -- and I hope this answers your question.
    Last edited by Audii-Dudii; 20th August 2011 at 10:49.

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    Re: It figures: No sooner does the Oly 12mm arrive than I dig-out my Voigtlander 12mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Audii-Dudii View Post
    Hah! If it's any consolation, I love a good ultra-wide angle perspective as much as the next guy, but with an effective focal length of 24mm, 12mm lenses in the m4/3 format barely qualify as ultra-wide. ...
    LOL ... A matter of perspective for sure. For me, anything wider than a 28mm "equivalent focal length" is ultra wide to my eye. The widest lenses I've used regularly are 20mm EFL, that's well into ultra wide for me.

    12mm on 24x36 mm format ... that's 120 degrees of diagonal AoV! Surely that's ultra-ultrawide ??? ;-)

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    Re: It figures: No sooner does the Oly 12mm arrive than I dig-out my Voigtlander 12mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    LOL ... A matter of perspective for sure. For me, anything wider than a 28mm "equivalent focal length" is ultra wide to my eye. The widest lenses I've used regularly are 20mm EFL, that's well into ultra wide for me.
    Po-tay-to / Po-tah-to ... as you say, it's all a matter of perspective, and personally, I rarely ever use a lens longer than 35mm. I did a four-day road-trip this past June from Scottsdale to Santa Fe and back, and I used only one lens for the entire trip: an Olympus 7-14 zoom and even then, it was parked on the 7mm setting for at least half of the photos I captured.

    12mm on 24x36 mm format ... that's 120 degrees of diagonal AoV! Surely that's ultra-ultrawide ??? ;-)
    Absolutely! If only there was an m4/3 equivalent, as I find even 7mm to be too long for me much of the time...

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    Re: It figures: No sooner does the Oly 12mm arrive than I dig-out my Voigtlander 12mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Audii-Dudii View Post
    Thanks for the kind words, although these are not photos from the Tempe Town Lake area. Instead, they are photos of the Portales building and parking garage (formerly known as the Finova building prior to their bankruptcy a decade-ish ago), which is where I work and which is located on the southwest corner of Scottsdale and Chaparral Roads in Scottsdale, just north of the Fashion Square mall.



    I originally bought the CV12 for use on my 4/3-format Panasonic DMC-L1 and I bought the Nikon F-mount version because the Leica M-bayonet version wouldn't have worked for that application. At the time, I had no idea that Panasonic and Olympus would soon be introducing m4/3 bodies with a lens register that was considerably shorter still, but in retrospect, my decision to buy the F-mount version has proved to be a stroke of genius because today it means I'm able to have a very good shift lens with an effective 24mm focal length. (Note: The Olympus 12/f2 is technically a better lens and it's quite a bit sharper, with more contrast, than the CV12. I wouldn't want to be without one of these, either, and it's nice to finally have the choice.)

    That said, I'm puzzled by your comment about the CV12 being sharper than the CV15, as I owned one of those as well for a while and my conclusion was exactly the opposite. Sample to sample variation or ??? Alas, I sold it because I wasn't using it, so I can't compare them. However, earlier this week, I bought another N.O.S. CV15 and I can compare this one to my CV12 when it arrives sometime next week. Stay tuned...



    I also have the 4/3-format Olympus 7-14 and wouldn't want to be without it so long as I own an m4/3 body, but its lack of "shiftiness" is a major deficiency for architectural work. I rarely need front tilt, but some rear tilt would be nice and one of these days, if I ever get around to building my own shift adapter, I'll incorporate this function into it. (FWIW, the Fotodiox adapter is too thick to allow the CV12 and CV15 lenses to focus at infinity, but I found that it's fairly easy to fix this if you're reasonably handy and are willing to invest the time to get it just right. The tricky part of assembling a rig like mine is getting your hands on the lenses, as they're not exactly thick on the ground these days...)
    I've had the 12 and 15mm CV lenses since they came out many years ago and have also used various sample os them. Overall, I would say the 12 is very slightly 'sharper', but there certainly is sample variation in the 15mm at least.

    On the M8 and M9 the 12 performs better than the 15; I would imagine because of the more advantageous location of the exit pupil on the 12. In any case, while using the 15 has been a struggle, using the 12 has been a lot easier. On m43 the 15 has also been worse with respect to the 'smearing' that wider M mount lenses are prone to. I don't use either since the 7-14 came out, and I'm delighted to having the 12/2 Oly lens now. Since I got it a month ago, I've shot more with it than any other lens. As far as shifting goes, I'll do correction in software as it's needed. If I get serious, I'll get out the FF Canon and the 17 and 24. But if someone makes an 8.5mm shift lens for m43, I'll be there! BTW, the Canon 17 looks pretty stupid on the G series.

    Henning

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    Re: It figures: No sooner does the Oly 12mm arrive than I dig-out my Voigtlander 12mm

    Quote Originally Posted by henningw View Post
    I've had the 12 and 15mm CV lenses since they came out many years ago and have also used various sample os them. Overall, I would say the 12 is very slightly 'sharper', but there certainly is sample variation in the 15mm at least.
    Well, this certainly won't be the first time I've had a copy of a lens that performs differently than everybody else's copy. Unfortunately, with my luck, the reason that my 15mm lens was sharper than my 12mm isn't because it was better than average, but because the 12mm was worse than average.

    I don't use either since the 7-14 came out, and I'm delighted to having the 12/2 Oly lens now. Since I got it a month ago, I've shot more with it than any other lens.
    In my case, the CV12mm is the only other lens I've used this month and it's my intention to leave the Oly 12mm on my GF1 indefinitely. It's a great performer and the focal length (and speed) are perfect for my purposes.

    As far as shifting goes, I'll do correction in software as it's needed. If I get serious, I'll get out the FF Canon and the 17 and 24. But if someone makes an 8.5mm shift lens for m43, I'll be there! BTW, the Canon 17 looks pretty stupid on the G series.
    I'll do minor touch-ups during post-processing, but it really is better to get it correct optically whenever possible. That said, if I had Canon 17 and 24 TS lenses available, then I'd use them over an m4/3-based shift setup every time as well, but my only other option is a modified Mamiya 50mm/f4 shift lens on my Contax 645, and that has a significantly narrower FoV.

    Oh, and in case anybody is curious, Photo nos. 3, 4, and 6 above used the full ~7mm of shift available -- you can tell by the amount of vignetting in the skies -- and the others used only about half of that amount.

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    Re: It figures: No sooner does the Oly 12mm arrive than I dig-out my Voigtlander 12mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Audii-Dudii View Post

    Anyway, I know I've gone on at some length here -- my apologies if I oversimplified (or overcomplicated!) anything -- and I hope this answers your question.
    No, this write up was excellent. Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I was away from the Internet in the Olympics :-).

    Thanks for the info,

    Doug

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    Re: It figures: No sooner does the Oly 12mm arrive than I dig-out my Voigtlander 12mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Audii-Dudii View Post
    and fall in love with it all over again.
    all excellent examples of why you'd love that lens

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    Re: It figures: No sooner does the Oly 12mm arrive than I dig-out my Voigtlander 12mm

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    all excellent examples of why you'd love that lens
    Thanks for the kind words! It has indeed been a fun project...

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