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Thread: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

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    Senior Member RichA's Avatar
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    Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    http://dpreview.com/news/1108/110824...x7overview.asp

    Now, if they can make some decent lenses, it will be really good. For now, on paper, this thing looks unbeatable as far as mirrorless cameras go. Putting it up against the GH2 will be interesting.

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by RichA View Post
    Now, if they can make some decent lenses...
    Exactly. That to me is the key - good glass. The system is just not there yet. The m43 system and lens selection is far more complete right now.

    But I'm not sure that I really need 24 megapixels anyway. My poor hard drive.

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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    I've just been looking at the sample gallery for the A77 announced today which also boast a 24mp sensor (the same as the NEX-7?).

    The sample picture at iso1250 is nothing short of dreadful. This is not wishful thinking, the GH-2 does a lot, lot better at 1600.

    LouisB

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    Senior Member ggibson's Avatar
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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Yikes, I agree that ISO 1250 shot looks pretty bad. Like compact-camera bad.

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Looks at the size/cost of the glass though. Zeiss 24 looks great but its $1000 and pretty big.

    55-210 is pretty huge, and stuff like the 18-55 and 16mm weren't that good on the 14mm NEX5 I had, so even worse on 24meg I'm sure.

    Where m4/3 has its advantage isn't in IQ, because thats the bottom of the pack, but in the selection of glass, that isn't only good quality, but also very compact and also pretty cheap.

    20mm f1.7 for sub $400, 45mm 1.8 for $400 etc. These are really good lenese with nice image, bokeh etc, and yet weight mere ounces and are small enough to fit in a pocket and cheap enough to buy a few focal lengths.

    Whole reason I went m4/3, NEX etc was I wanted a compact solution for when I ddn't want to take a DSLR and that had better IQ than a compact.

    Given its only for those times when I'm on a trip etc where I'd want such as system in the first place, I didnt' really want to spend a ton of money either.


    I guess if you wanted to build your main system around a NEX thats one thing, but with and prices its getting a little big/heavy. Might as well go A77 and have way more lenses options etc for that type of money.


    NEX really needs some decent quality, pancake primes at sub $500 IMHO

    Its a great form factor body and its fun to shoot, but it needs to offer a few lenses you can pickup without breaking the bank, toss into a pocket and just go shoot on a walk etc.

    Thats where the camera excels.

    $1400 body with a $1000 lens thats as big as any other APS-C lens ? I've already got that covered with my DSLR's

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by RichA View Post
    http://dpreview.com/news/1108/110824...x7overview.asp

    Now, if they can make some decent lenses, it will be really good. For now, on paper, this thing looks unbeatable as far as mirrorless cameras go. Putting it up against the GH2 will be interesting.
    Respectfully disagree. It looks like an APS system with a too small camera body. I say too small because I don't think Sony has delivered decent ergonomics in the NEX system.

    If I want a Sony APS system, the a77 looks like a better bet to me.

    For a compact mirrorless I'll go micro 4/3 any day. Small lenses, small cameras with good ergonomics, lots of choices, it's an easy decision for me.

    My current favorite is the Olympus E-P3 with the 12mm f/2 lens.

    Best,

    Bill

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    Member kwalsh's Avatar
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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    The sample picture at iso1250 is nothing short of dreadful. This is not wishful thinking, the GH-2 does a lot, lot better at 1600.
    That ISO1250 bar shot on DPR is horrid! Check out the imaging resource samples at ISO100 and ISO1600:

    http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...LI00100NR1.HTM
    http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...LI01600NR1.HTM

    Something awful is happening with NR in the JPEG engine by ISO 1600. Sony has a reputation for crappy JPEG and heavy handed NR and this is prototype firmware as well.

    We'll see what RAW performance will be on the final camera I guess.

    Ken

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    Senior Member RichA's Avatar
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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Millsart View Post
    Looks at the size/cost of the glass though. Zeiss 24 looks great but its $1000 and pretty big.

    $1400 body with a $1000 lens thats as big as any other APS-C lens ? I've already got that covered with my DSLR's
    I was thinking the same thing about the upcoming Samyang 24mm f1.4. Way to large for the m4/3rds when you can get a 20mm f1.7 literally 1/4 the size. There is no getting away from big glass for bigger sensors, at least not yet. Pentax has produced a 40mm f2.8 that is very small, but I haven't seen much else that was AF that was small. For smallness, your only real choice would be Leica M or Voigtlander rangefinder lenses. If they work on the NEX.

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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by kwalsh View Post
    Something awful is happening with NR in the JPEG engine by ISO 1600. Sony has a reputation for crappy JPEG and heavy handed NR and this is prototype firmware as well.

    We'll see what RAW performance will be on the final camera I guess.

    Ken
    Yikes! I thought perhaps the iso1250 shot was just bad photography by the user. That is another dreadful capture. It gives me no pleasure to say this because I really like the look of a A77 and I still believe that in the end Sony will become the dominant camera manufacturer in the world.

    LouisB

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    I'll agree with the last posters. As a gadget lover the NEX-7 looks great. It doesn't have a great lens selection and not one that does justice to the sensor. The lenses are also too big to go with the camera. Seems popular enough here in Japan though, and almost always with a zoom.
    Charles - flickr

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    One thing I'm sure about is that judging the high ISO on the A77 from the Sony jpg engine is unkind. I think one must wait for the RAW processing and the final firmware.

    Added to which, looking at a 24mp sensor at 100% is not the same thing as looking at a 12 or 16mp sensor at 100%.

    However, although the NEX7 does look very attractive, I look at my little bag with an EP3, 12 f2, 20 panasonic and 45 PL macro, and there really is nothing in the Sony lineup to compare, and if one wants a zoom like the zuiko 14-150 . . . . I guess if you're wanting to use legacy prime lenses, then the NEX really does come into it's own, but personally I have another camera for using lenses like that.

    So, the specs of the NEX7 may be orgasmic (they are) but coming down to earth and comparing lenses and usage, it's hard to convince oneself that it's better than m43 has to offer.

    I just wish Olympus could manage a new sensor!

    Just this guy you know

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I just wish Olympus could manage a new sensor!
    +++1 for this!

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Millsart View Post
    Looks at the size/cost of the glass though. Zeiss 24 looks great but its $1000 and pretty big.

    55-210 is pretty huge, and stuff like the 18-55 and 16mm weren't that good on the 14mm NEX5 I had, so even worse on 24meg I'm sure.

    Where m4/3 has its advantage isn't in IQ, because thats the bottom of the pack, but in the selection of glass, that isn't only good quality, but also very compact and also pretty cheap.

    20mm f1.7 for sub $400, 45mm 1.8 for $400 etc. These are really good lenese with nice image, bokeh etc, and yet weight mere ounces and are small enough to fit in a pocket and cheap enough to buy a few focal lengths.

    Whole reason I went m4/3, NEX etc was I wanted a compact solution for when I ddn't want to take a DSLR and that had better IQ than a compact.

    Given its only for those times when I'm on a trip etc where I'd want such as system in the first place, I didnt' really want to spend a ton of money either.


    I guess if you wanted to build your main system around a NEX thats one thing, but with and prices its getting a little big/heavy. Might as well go A77 and have way more lenses options etc for that type of money.


    NEX really needs some decent quality, pancake primes at sub $500 IMHO

    Its a great form factor body and its fun to shoot, but it needs to offer a few lenses you can pickup without breaking the bank, toss into a pocket and just go shoot on a walk etc.

    Thats where the camera excels.

    $1400 body with a $1000 lens thats as big as any other APS-C lens ? I've already got that covered with my DSLR's
    Yep.

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Looks interesting - in a typical Sony kitchen sink fashion, shame Sony didn't target their efforts on the m4/3rds standard... we could use the Sony tech combined with m4/3rds lenses.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Looks interesting - in a typical Sony kitchen sink fashion, shame Sony didn't target their efforts on the m4/3rds standard... we could use the Sony tech combined with m4/3rds lenses.

    Cheers

    Brian
    +1 on that!

    I would love an E7 or EP4 with a Sony sensor.

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    Senior Member Tesselator's Avatar
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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by RichA View Post
    http://dpreview.com/news/1108/110824...x7overview.asp

    Now, if they can make some decent lenses, it will be really good. For now, on paper, this thing looks unbeatable as far as mirrorless cameras go. Putting it up against the GH2 will be interesting.
    Looks good. But I don't care about Sony AF glass. Just give me a set of adapters and I'll be fine! MF classics are the way to go here.

    Also I don't think it would be a fair fight to compare an APS-C to a MFT sensor. I mean for IQ my 5-year old (now $100) Pentax APS-C already beats the IQ from a GH2 in every way. It's just inherent to the sensor sizes I guess. So I assume a new APS-C is going to be even better than that and just snuff the GH2. Of course these days "snuffing" is measured through a microscope almost so there will be lots of folks who will be hollering "IT'S GOOD ENOUGH" as is already so common among generalists here and elsewhere.

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesselator View Post
    Looks good. But I don't care about Sony AF glass. Just give me a set of adapters and I'll be fine! MF classics are the way to go here.

    Also I don't think it would be a fair fight to compare an APS-C to a MFT sensor. I mean for IQ my 5-year old (now $100) Pentax APS-C already beats the IQ from a GH2 in every way. It's just inherent to the sensor sizes I guess. So I assume a new APS-C is going to be even better than that and just snuff the GH2. Of course these days "snuffing" is measured through a microscope almost so there will be lots of folks who will be hollering "IT'S GOOD ENOUGH" as is already so common among generalists here and elsewhere.
    An interesting approach to making a case. You make very broad statements about a comparison of IQ between two cameras, and position anyone who is happy with a certain level of IQ as a generalist.

    Plenty of people, who may or may not be generalist, but many of whom make money from MFT camera output, are clearly happy to work with cameras that are snuffed.

    Perhaps it's better to be a snuffed generalist than an argumentative elitist.

    Perhaps also, we could celebrate if someone is happy with the camera they are using, and the quality it offers them.

    Back to the original discussion, I think I share some of brian's fantasy: Sony's implementation in the MFT format would have been nice. Oh well.

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesselator View Post
    Looks good. But I don't care about Sony AF glass. Just give me a set of adapters and I'll be fine! MF classics are the way to go here.

    Also I don't think it would be a fair fight to compare an APS-C to a MFT sensor. I mean for IQ my 5-year old (now $100) Pentax APS-C already beats the IQ from a GH2 in every way. It's just inherent to the sensor sizes I guess. So I assume a new APS-C is going to be even better than that and just snuff the GH2. Of course these days "snuffing" is measured through a microscope almost so there will be lots of folks who will be hollering "IT'S GOOD ENOUGH" as is already so common among generalists here and elsewhere.

    I agree, NEX-7 will be a super camera for Manual Focus legacy glass. EVF should be much better than already great VF2, at least that's what I think. (plus focus assist should be nice, controls and looks of the camera are much improved) Put some Leica-M or Cine-glass and you good to go, I dont care about AF sony lenses at all.

    On a different note, I'm not though completely understand why so many people think that APS-C sensor will always be superior to m4/3 sensor? Size is not the factor here, its the raw materials and jpeg processing, etc. Sensor are cut from one large disc, Panasonic just need to buy their discs from Sony or Canon. (but I'm not complaining, I'm not really have problems with m4/3 performance)

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomorgana View Post
    Sensor are cut from one large disc, Panasonic just need to buy their discs from Sony or Canon.
    Not Canon! The GH2 and G3 sensors are already matching Canon's most recent sensors in almost all IQ specs (accounting for the sensor size difference). Canon and Panasonic pixel technology is just about the same performance level right now.

    (but I'm not complaining, I'm not really have problems with m4/3 performance)
    Me neither. Of course if a Sony sensor or similar sensor technology made it into an m43 camera I'd still be happy!

    Ken

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelao View Post

    Perhaps it's better to be a snuffed generalist than an argumentative elitist.
    I'll remember this for the next time I have a debate with Tesselator

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I'll remember this for the next time I have a debate with Tesselator


    (couldn't help it!)

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    Senior Member RichA's Avatar
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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    +1 on that!

    I would love an E7 or EP4 with a Sony sensor.
    We will finally see a true comparison, pixel to pixel of m4/3rds and Sony when they are released because the overall pixel density of it and the GH2 will be about the same. There will be no more questions!

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    There will be no more questions!
    True. But that won't stop the arguments about the answers...

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Looks interesting - in a typical Sony kitchen sink fashion, shame Sony didn't target their efforts on the m4/3rds standard... we could use the Sony tech combined with m4/3rds lenses.

    Cheers

    Brian
    And why is that a shame? Both Panasonic and Olympus made micro four thirds a closed standard (4/3rds also is a closed standard but Olympus let more people in initially). They clarified that much on its creation. And Sony doesn't have to play 2nd to the wishes and desires of the other two- they are their own force. I really think these new Sonys will do better than what they are seen at first pass when good lenses are put on them. I also think it's not so hot to compare 100% pixel peep and JPEG when a RAW comparison and a resize down to even 14 MP would probably blow whatever 4/3rds has now out of the water.

    That said, to me as far as the Nex7 goes, the main issue for me is quality lenses at a small size. I think the body looks pretty interesting and they finally announced two lenses which will look like they will be pretty good (ironically sort of equivalent to the two new good Olympus lenses in the type of photography they can do)... and that looks cool but I want small.

    I don't see much difference on that end on a Nex 7 and the Olympus 4/3rds since neither fits in a pocket with the good lenses. Of course that's just me.

    - Raist

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    I don't see much difference on that end on a Nex 7 and the Olympus 4/3rds since neither fits in a pocket with the good lenses. Of course that's just me.

    - Raist
    I probably have larger pockets than you. I think this combo would easily fit in my pocket



    as would the GF3 or the E-PM1 with 14mm f/2.5, 17mm f/2.8 or 20mm f/1.7.

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    And why is that a shame? Both Panasonic and Olympus made micro four thirds a closed standard (4/3rds also is a closed standard but Olympus let more people in initially). They clarified that much on its creation. And Sony doesn't have to play 2nd to the wishes and desires of the other two- they are their own force. I really think these new Sonys will do better than what they are seen at first pass when good lenses are put on them. I also think it's not so hot to compare 100% pixel peep and JPEG when a RAW comparison and a resize down to even 14 MP would probably blow whatever 4/3rds has now out of the water.

    That said, to me as far as the Nex7 goes, the main issue for me is quality lenses at a small size. I think the body looks pretty interesting and they finally announced two lenses which will look like they will be pretty good (ironically sort of equivalent to the two new good Olympus lenses in the type of photography they can do)... and that looks cool but I want small.

    I don't see much difference on that end on a Nex 7 and the Olympus 4/3rds since neither fits in a pocket with the good lenses. Of course that's just me.

    - Raist
    You just answered your own question... it's a shame because all that techery is going to waste without decently matched lenses - NEX looks totally out of balance to me... nicely sized bodies, shame about the frankenlenses

    If they'd tapped into the m4/3rds standard, they could have made compelling bodies with well matched lenses. Missed opportunity imho.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    You just answered your own question... it's a shame because all that techery is going to waste without decently matched lenses - NEX looks totally out of balance to me... nicely sized bodies, shame about the frankenlenses

    If they'd tapped into the m4/3rds standard, they could have made compelling bodies with well matched lenses. Missed opportunity imho.

    Cheers

    Brian
    Brian, it is all relative to your shooting style. The NEX system was designed to change the way the photographer composes and shoots, so lens balancing becomes irrelevant depending on your stance. For me, shooting at waist level is the new norm and the lens barrel becomes an extension of the body, arguably making for an even more steady platform. For other people, this mode of shooting will be unacceptable but again, for me - damn it is fun and has improved my style of photography immensely.

    It really boils down to whether you are an AF guy or into adapted lenses. This is a greater argument than the whole lens balance "issue". Simply put, NEX AF lenses are few and their quality is middling.

    Now compare NEX to m4/3 in the adapted lens space and you have a different story. Peaking was a game changer and when matched with the tilt screen flexibility you have a very powerful tool that is quicker to focus and control than any m4/3 system I have tried or owned. I used to dread MF on anything other than a rangefinder or film SLR w/split prism but with the NEX it is fun fun fun!

    Different strokes I guess and it is interesting how the manufacturers are moving to combine all these features. Look at the E-PL3 with its NEX like tilt screen and the new NEX 7 that combines the traditional NEX look with a more conservative eye-level EVF and larger body. We are lucky that these guys are so rapidly evolving the notions of what a camera can do.

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    I know exactly what you mean - I took this yesterday with the E-PL3 + Hexanon 57mm f1.2 from waist level using the tilted screen to nail manual focus. We (the whole Olympus Safari Group) lobbied Olympus over 18 flipping months ago for peaking functionality... I guess they want to sell more mZD 45mm f1.8 lenses (not exactly a hard sell! lol)

    E-PL3 + Hexanon 57mm f1.2
    1/160s f/1.8 iso200


    I wonder if I can get a Hexanon AR adapter for the Nex 5?

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I probably have larger pockets than you. I think this combo would easily fit in my pocket

    []

    as would the GF3 or the E-PM1 with 14mm f/2.5, 17mm f/2.8 or 20mm f/1.7.
    I did think about that, I wish the ergonomics were better. Would like to see how it feels. Not a big fan of a slower zoom but compared to an ultra compact, it's offset by the sensor I guess.

    Would be more interesting if Panasonic made a pro version of that.

    - Raist

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    You just answered your own question... it's a shame because all that techery is going to waste without decently matched lenses - NEX looks totally out of balance to me... nicely sized bodies, shame about the frankenlenses

    If they'd tapped into the m4/3rds standard, they could have made compelling bodies with well matched lenses. Missed opportunity imho.

    Cheers

    Brian
    But my point Brian is that *they can't tap into the m4/3rds standard* because both Panasonic and Olympus made it quite closed! And the Nex is finally going to have good lenses. As far as cameras that can't fit in a pocket, they are in good company with micro four thirds, though finally micro four thirds is going with some models towards smaller, but there are still some compromises.

    I don't think the Nex 7 techery is going to waste. If you go say smaller micro four thirds you do pay a price- those sensors. No built in EVF (yet). And the better micro four thirds with the better lenses are not pocketable, so it's a similar situation.

    Sure I will agree, with you that they don't have (yet) high quality small lenses (like pancake primes). The best lenses I am seeing in micro four thirds though, don't make for a pocketable system, except maybe a GF3 with a Panny pancake F1.7 but you miss on the better F1.4 from Panny and the two new Olympus lenses.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    But my point Brian is that *they can't tap into the m4/3rds standard* because both Panasonic and Olympus made it quite closed!
    It's closed in the sense Olympus controls the standard. Panasonic developed it with Olympus, but I'm not sure they have much control in it. Other manufacturers can create cameras based on the standard to the best of my knowledge. Unlike 4/3s where anyone could 'join' without creating a 4/3s product, a m4/3s product has to be released to join the m4/3s group.

    Sony couldn't take m4/3s extend it and still call it m4/3s, but I'm fairly sure they could join and create cameras and lenses matching the standard if they wished. If you have a link that says otherwise I'd be interested in reading it. Cosina is obviously in as they are using the m4/3's logo.
    Charles - flickr

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by cjlacz View Post
    It's closed in the sense Olympus controls the standard. Panasonic developed it with Olympus, but I'm not sure they have much control in it. Other manufacturers can create cameras based on the standard to the best of my knowledge. Unlike 4/3s where anyone could 'join' without creating a 4/3s product, a m4/3s product has to be released to join the m4/3s group.

    Sony couldn't take m4/3s extend it and still call it m4/3s, but I'm fairly sure they could join and create cameras and lenses matching the standard if they wished. If you have a link that says otherwise I'd be interested in reading it. Cosina is obviously in as they are using the m4/3's logo.
    The most important difference compared to some other camera system standards is that the interface specifications are available to potential suppliers of lenses etc. When Sigma and other 3rd party suppliers make lenses for Nikon AF-S or Canon EF standard, it's based on reverse engineering, sometimes with the result that the camera manufacturers make changes that Sigma etc. hadn't anticipated, with malfunctioning lenses as a result.

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The most important difference compared to some other camera system standards is that the interface specifications are available to potential suppliers of lenses etc. When Sigma and other 3rd party suppliers make lenses for Nikon AF-S or Canon EF standard, it's based on reverse engineering, sometimes with the result that the camera manufacturers make changes that Sigma etc. hadn't anticipated, with malfunctioning lenses as a result.

    Sony NEX lens mount specs are al publicly available.

    - raist

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Sony NEX lens mount specs are al publicly available.

    - raist
    ... which makes them both partly open standards, the difference being that with m4/3, you can also participate as a camera manufacturer.

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Both are closed standards. You can't participate as a camera manufacturer on micro four thirds without an agreement and both Olympus and Panasonic made it very clear it wasn't going to be easy to get in if someone gets in.

    4/3rds was more open and it's still a closed standard.

    I don't know where people get the idea that Fuji or Sony could just "jump in" anytime they want.

    - Raist

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Both are closed standards. You can't participate as a camera manufacturer on micro four thirds without an agreement and both Olympus and Panasonic made it very clear it wasn't going to be easy to get in if someone gets in.

    4/3rds was more open and it's still a closed standard.

    I don't know where people get the idea that Fuji or Sony could just "jump in" anytime they want.

    - Raist
    Of course it isn't easy. If anybody could jump in, the quality standard would deteriorate faster than you can say microfourthirds, destroying the brand long term. The point is that it's possible to participate, as opposed to most other camera system standards.

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    Senior Member RichA's Avatar
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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    And why is that a shame? Both Panasonic and
    I don't see much difference on that end on a Nex 7 and the Olympus 4/3rds since neither fits in a pocket with the good lenses. Of course that's just me.

    - Raist
    Give the specific size you would need to fit in a pocket. If you spec something like a 1" thick P&S, then much more conversation about an interchangeable lens cameras is moot, since it isn't going to happen.

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by RichA View Post
    Give the specific size you would need to fit in a pocket. If you spec something like a 1" thick P&S, then much more conversation about an interchangeable lens cameras is moot, since it isn't going to happen.
    From the point of view of expecting an interchangeable lens camera to fit in a pocket maybe (then there's the Pentax Q but let's ignore that). From the point of view that it puts micro four thirds and the Nexes in not so distant categories usability wise on the size end, I think it's worth mentioning.

    Now, as far as I see it, there's still advantages in having a bit smaller, slightly smaller primes, etc. All I am saying is that the difference in category/usability diminishes making them more valid to compare.

    I would agree with the statement that Sony should still seek to make some quality pancake primes.

    - Raist

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Of course it isn't easy. If anybody could jump in, the quality standard would deteriorate faster than you can say microfourthirds, destroying the brand long term. The point is that it's possible to participate, as opposed to most other camera system standards.
    My point is not just that it's hard. My point is that micro four thirds *is* a closed standard. Whether you can really participate or not, whether in pragmatic terms is like almost no participation or not is another question.

    And my point in mentioning all of this is that I see comments constantly thrown around like "Why Sony wasted time on their own standard and not join micro four thirds?" "Is about time Fuji puts out a micro four thirds camera! They are part of the consortium are they not?" "Why Fuji doesn't come out with a micro four thirds camera instead of making an X100 line type one?"

    The first two questions are false and the last a game of chance against the odds. Sony nor Fuji can't just "join on a whim" (one of my points). And in the case of Fuji, they are not part of the micro four thirds consortium, only four thirds (in which they did nothing). Given the apparent success of the X100 (I could be wrong), I don't see why they should "give something in" to Olympus & Panasonic instead of coming up with their own (though maybe a whole set of patent exchange is something of a win win for both).

    So what I am saying is that while it's possible Fuji could join and make say a micro four thirds camera, it's far from easy, and far from something Fuji could just "decide on a whim." Rumor was Panasonic didn't want them in but Olympus did- but that's just rumor. When Fuji comes out with their own mirror less (almost a certainty, in line of the X100) and it's not micro four thirds, I can imagine many saying the same baseless comments again.

    The reality is, this is not a business choice that is just "easily available to be made by Fuji."

    - Raist

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    It looks like Fuji's interchangeable lens camera could be a full frame M-mount rangefinder competitor.

    I'm quite happy with the X100 approach, and can see a future version with faster processor improving responsiveness nicely.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    I think what is now proprietary is the 6 bit coding for Leica lenses. Identification of the lens in use is important in digital because of the corner color shift corrections etc that need to be made. So, someone like Fuji may have to make a menu so you can tell the camera what lens you just mounted.

    If you look at Zeiss and Voigtlander M glass, none of those lenses come with factory 6 bit codes. they are all done after the fact with lens mount swaps or through the menus.

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    It looks like Fuji's interchangeable lens camera could be a full frame M-mount rangefinder competitor.

    I'm quite happy with the X100 approach, and can see a future version with faster processor improving responsiveness nicely.

    Cheers

    Brian
    I have been asking Fuji for years (on dpreview) if they can come out with a specialty high end SR sensor type camera, with a set of prime lenses - custom mount. It is taking forever but sounds like the interchangeable lens APS-C X100 type camera will finally be it. Count the years- since the F710 came out.

    Still crossing my fingers the X10 delivers.

    - Raist

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    I don't think the NEX7 is comparable to either the 'micro four thirds' items or the 'posercam' (x100) as these are quite different animals to the NEX. However, the real competition that Sony must have in it's corporate mind is the other mirrorless compacts that are in the pipeline from some very influential players including Nikon and Leica. Sony will probably have planned in a large price drop on th eNEX models for when the going gets tough and consumers turn away towards new wonders from Samsung, Leica, Nikon, and presumably Canon and Pentax......

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    'posercam' - interesting... according to Erwin Puts, "the X100 is a serious camera for serious photographers." Do you think he's mistaken?

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    No I don't think he is mistaken at all,..and one or two of the thousands sold may well find their way to "serious photographers"..........

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    I know exactly what you mean - I took this yesterday with the E-PL3 + Hexanon 57mm f1.2 from waist level using the tilted screen to nail manual focus. We (the whole Olympus Safari Group) lobbied Olympus over 18 flipping months ago for peaking functionality...

    I wonder if I can get a Hexanon AR adapter for the Nex 5?

    Cheers

    Brian
    Yes, Olympus (or Panny) need to get on the Peaking bandwagon! And yes, you can get the Hexanon AR adapter for NEX.

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    It looks like Fuji's interchangeable lens camera could be a full frame M-mount rangefinder competitor.

    I'm quite happy with the X100 approach, and can see a future version with faster processor improving responsiveness nicely.

    Cheers

    Brian
    Full-frame (except for Leica's M9) just means huge lenses. Pass.

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    As a side note to the Nex-7, the new Nex-7 lenses and shots at dpreview look quite good indeed.

    If I was looking for a compact non pocketable camera, I would give it some serious consideration.

    - Raist

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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    I bought a G3 and sold it 2 days later. My reasons had nothing to do with IQ. It was more of a personal hang-out than anything. Even before I bought it, I hated the looks. I can't stand that "mini dslr" look! I thought I would overcome it, but didn't. Also it was too little for my hands. (I have average and rather thin fingered hands)
    This camera was meant to be for recreational purposes. My 5D2 is my workhorse and I'd buy it again tomorrow at first hour if it got stolen or broken.
    My other attempt for a recreational camera was a G10 3 years ago. It didn't work either. The Sony Nex7 sounds terrific if a little of an overkill for my purposes. I've been dreaming of Panasonic coming with a model just like the size, features and controls of the Nex7 to use with the new retractable 14-42 zoom lens. Now, that sounds more like the camera I've been waiting for!
    Eduardo
    Last edited by Uaiomex; 17th September 2011 at 19:07. Reason: Added

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    Senior Member Tesselator's Avatar
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    Re: Sony's NEX-7 specs...wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelao View Post
    An interesting approach to making a case.
    Thanks, but then you went on to assume things that weren't said nor meant.

    You shall remain snuffed... Tee-Hee-Hee

    Photomorgana got it. Read his post maybe.

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