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Thread: Using m4/3 on safari

  1. #51
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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    OK....I've added bird gallery. There is a theme here...I did much better with big birds vs. what I dub as "bird dots".

    http://www.terrybanet.com/?page_id=324
    Some really wonderfull shots Terry!

    Regarding your other statement with DOF:
    I have encountered one critical thing with my G3: As good as the EVF is I sometimes shoot a scenne and find the focus plane to be slightly further back or closer than I would want it.
    I think its sometimes hard to judge when looking through the viewfinder. Maybe I should sometimes switch to magnification even when shooting with AF.
    I seldomly have this with very large viewfinders and the AF of the D700 or the S2. This may also be a result of relation between AF-point-size and image sensor size.
    Even with some DX sized sensors (K5 and Canon 7D) I have not been lucky how I could focus precisly where I wanted. (For some reason the D300 it worked fine for me).
    I have the same problem with the G3 (and had it with the EP2).
    The "Spot"-focus of the x1 on the other side works very good for me.

    What I am trying to say is that for me I have encountered that I can live with pretty shallow DOF for many things as long as the focus is 100% accurate. (For example on the eye of a bird). The less precise the AF can be "targeted" the more DOF I seem to need.
    Of course there are also many subjects where one wants more DOF anyways.

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I'm not sure what you are trying to explain here.

    <leans back in the deeply padded couch>

    Well it all started with the comment by ptomsu:
    after shooting m43 myself and after reading all your feedback and findings, end of the day I would go for a FF DSLR when going on Safari.

    Reasons are simple - because I would want shallower DOF and the advantages of higher ISO in combination with those larger sensors.
    to which I posted something clearly unclear. I was responding to his comment about the advantages of FF.

    I did also react to ustien's comments about:
    Besides the cost there is the size and weight to consider.
    which clearly he picked up on ...

    this is where I see it all went into a cluster f*** (assisted by my fractured responces)

    My reaction to ustiens assertion which made assumptions which were wrong: I had actually been considering that but just didn't make it clear.

    So stripping back all the stuff I feel that:

    * people often focus on how light a given camera is, and foget about adding in the lenses. Certainly Terry was taking a m4/3 camera and a m4/3 100-300 lens, but my observation was perhaps more general. I recall my own discovery of how heavy my new light kit was (after buying my G1) only to pick up my camera at a conference and say "hey that's not light anymore"

    * I appreciate there are light 100-300 zooms, but myself prefer the equivalent of Canon L series or Olympus SWD lenses so I was just making that observatoin

    I don't want to get into per pixel image quality or comparing exactly what framing a 300mm would give on a APS or 4/3 camera as I think they are so close anyway as to be insignificant.

    My injection of the seemingly elusive point about the 1.6 TC was to enable the use of a 300mm lens on a FF and have it equal the framing view of that lens on an APS camera

    so now that I've attempted to clarify wtf I was on about I'll just retire to sitting in the background and try not to comment on things again.

    :-)

  3. #53
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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    I did look at my long lens alternatives.....the Oly 150mm f2 is considered a stunning lens. However, alone the AF was not good on a m4/3 body. Add the teleconverter, it was worse. Then there was a question of is this a lens I want to own long term?

    Tbe other really popular safari lens is the sigma 100-500 and I considered that with a K5. In that instance I would then have been forced to put together a Pentax kit with extra body etc. So, a multi thousand dollar undertaking.

    Also renting big glass from Canon or Nikon would have cost about $3K given how long I was gone.

    I think all the considerations come down two considerations:
    1) What do you normally shoot and will you use that gear again once you are at home
    2) Really looking around at what safari photographers have published. What shots do you like? What are you likely to print large?

    When there and in the moment, you get sucked into shooting everything... just look at me and what I came home with. I had fun with the birds, have lots of shots with animals eating other things. These are great to tell a story, or to document the trip but they aren't the images that move me to say wow this is why I really wanted to make this trip. Yesterday, I printed this shot at 17x22 and would love to print it bigger....


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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Forget about the gear, that is an awesome shot

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    This last shot of the zebras is absolutely gorgeous, Terry .

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Beautiful, Terry - at what focal length was this taken?

    This puts me in mind of something Ray Mears wrote in his book Vanishing World a life of bushcraft... The hardest thing about photography is getting to the image.

    What a privilege, to get on a safari like this - you certainly seem to have made the most of the opportunity Terry, thanks for sharing

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Thans Amin, Jorgen and Brian

    That shot was taken with the G3 and Oly 14-54 (f2.8-3.5) for 4/3 used with adapter. The zebras seem to be very photogenic taking the more organic environment and making it very graphic.

    The person who organized our trip goes to Kenya every year. He knows what works and what doesn't. A non photographer would probably have wanted to blow their brains out on our trip as we were out shooting a lot. We had plenty of time (the most important ingredient) and lots of patience. This meant we never rushed from spot to spot and could take our time with different scenes or animals. We took a boxed breakfast with us every morning which allowed us to head out at 6AM and come back in at about 12:30. Many other groups would come back for breakfast or leave later - robbing them of the best light or pinning them closer to the camps. Not to be under estimated was the fact that we had a superb guide that was with us the whole trip (we did a driving trip and had a couple of long drives (Nairobi to Samburu, Samburu to Nakuru and Nakuru to the Mara) instead of flying domestically to the locations. This allowed us to not worry about luggage weight restrictions and to really get to know our guides. They were part of our trip and we had all meals with them.

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    I would bet that the close relationships with your guides/driver made your experience quite unique for a safari. It was a really good decision for you two to choose to have your own vehicle.

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Terry, how did the Oly glass work with the G3? I have a lot of Oly lenses and haven't decided whether to get a G3 or stay with my E620.
    Did you have any missed shots with the Oly/G3 combination? Is your G3 still for sale?

  10. #60
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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    First off Terry, thanks for taking the time to share your experiences here. I'll probably do an Africa photo safari at some point in the next few years and gear selection is going to be a quandary. Your thoughts and experiences are really valuable.

    Second, I can see there are some great images in the pipe! Anxious to see more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I think all the considerations come down two considerations:
    1) What do you normally shoot and will you use that gear again once you are at home
    2) Really looking around at what safari photographers have published. What shots do you like? What are you likely to print large?
    I think this is an excellent point. It also goes along with your "storytelling" consideration.

    When I step out of my forte (landscapes) the caliber of my photos drops quite a bit. Sure, I can take a nice wildlife shot, but I feel I wouldn't bring much to the table compared to a dedicated wildlife photographer. I think most of my shots in the super-telephoto "look at the lion yawn" portrait genre would end up being nice travel log photos not unlike the tens of thousands that already exist. They would hold great personal value to me. A small heavily edited selection might be of interest to friends. I have a hard time imagining I'd produce any "wow" shots in that genre even with heavy tools. The subject matter is no longer novel to the audience. Our culture is saturated with nature films and photos, so a technically well executed documentary photo of wildlife is not going to provide interest. As someone who would be stepping into the role of "wildlife photographer" for a vacation I don't feel I'd be able to adapt creatively into that role in such a short time beyond documentary and storytelling. I don't think I'd want to haul a 15 lb lens that I'd never use for anything else to capture storytelling images, "lesser" gear would do just fine.

    What I would hope (perhaps naively) is that I could bring my landscape experience to bear on a landscape I've not shot before that has wildlife as a significant element to it. For me I'd probably be better at making creative images that might connect with viewers in that context. Your zebra shot here being a nice example. I suspect much of my current gear and techniques would fit that role already and I could perhaps supplement a bit to get "documentary" shots of wild life along the way.

    If you've bothered reading this far, one question

    These trips are all vehicle based, and everyone stays in the vehicles. The vehicles are typically filled with people with giant super telephoto lenses all trying to get the "lion yawning" shot of the century. (And since some of them probably know what they are going, unlike me, they have a passing chance of doing it). The guides are probably used to catering to this as well. I have the feeling that if I approached such a trip as a landscape photo shoot I'd be a fish out of water often trapped in a vantage point not amenable to what I was trying to shoot (wildlife in the landscape instead of just the wildlife). Any thoughts about that after your experience?

    Thanks again,

    Ken

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Terry,

    You say "I tried where I could to get some cross lighting. We didn't do much backlighting by choice. I was traveling with a birder who really wanted to get good detail and catchlight in the birds eyes which really needs them facing the light. "

    I personally think the shot you posted with that message is the best 'picture' you have shown so far. To me it has more atmosphere and is more unusual.

    Tony

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Quote Originally Posted by kwalsh View Post
    First off Terry, thanks for taking the time to share your experiences here. I'll probably do an Africa photo safari at some point in the next few years and gear selection is going to be a quandary. Your thoughts and experiences are really valuable.

    Second, I can see there are some great images in the pipe! Anxious to see more.



    I think this is an excellent point. It also goes along with your "storytelling" consideration.

    When I step out of my forte (landscapes) the caliber of my photos drops quite a bit. Sure, I can take a nice wildlife shot, but I feel I wouldn't bring much to the table compared to a dedicated wildlife photographer. I think most of my shots in the super-telephoto "look at the lion yawn" portrait genre would end up being nice travel log photos not unlike the tens of thousands that already exist. They would hold great personal value to me. A small heavily edited selection might be of interest to friends. I have a hard time imagining I'd produce any "wow" shots in that genre even with heavy tools. The subject matter is no longer novel to the audience. Our culture is saturated with nature films and photos, so a technically well executed documentary photo of wildlife is not going to provide interest. As someone who would be stepping into the role of "wildlife photographer" for a vacation I don't feel I'd be able to adapt creatively into that role in such a short time beyond documentary and storytelling. I don't think I'd want to haul a 15 lb lens that I'd never use for anything else to capture storytelling images, "lesser" gear would do just fine.

    What I would hope (perhaps naively) is that I could bring my landscape experience to bear on a landscape I've not shot before that has wildlife as a significant element to it. For me I'd probably be better at making creative images that might connect with viewers in that context. Your zebra shot here being a nice example. I suspect much of my current gear and techniques would fit that role already and I could perhaps supplement a bit to get "documentary" shots of wild life along the way.

    If you've bothered reading this far, one question

    These trips are all vehicle based, and everyone stays in the vehicles. The vehicles are typically filled with people with giant super telephoto lenses all trying to get the "lion yawning" shot of the century. (And since some of them probably know what they are going, unlike me, they have a passing chance of doing it). The guides are probably used to catering to this as well. I have the feeling that if I approached such a trip as a landscape photo shoot I'd be a fish out of water often trapped in a vantage point not amenable to what I was trying to shoot (wildlife in the landscape instead of just the wildlife). Any thoughts about that after your experience?

    Thanks again,

    Ken
    Hi Ken - you nailed it for me and what I wanted from this trip. Landscapes with at the animals as an element of the composition. I was also very interested in the overall experience - which includes the hunting or yawning lion, wildebeest river crossings etc. but those weren't the images I was keen on "nailing". I thought if I did a safari that I would probably go with Andy Biggs because he has a lot of landscape shots that appeal to just this aesthetic. I was invited on this trip by a friend and it was being organized by one of her friends that travels to Kenya every year. I just decided to "go for it" as she was someone that I knew and was comfortable that I could share accommodations with for a long duration trip and I had confidence with the organizer based on emails and his guidance on what to expect, bring along etc.

    Our itinerary and trip was clearly geared toward photography. What that means is vehicles with only two or perhaps three people. Our Vehicles also had roof hatches which work better for camera support than some of the more open vehicles. Two people in the land cruiser gives each person room to move around and get the vantage point they need (of course less people in the vehicle costs more but was important to me). With only two people telling our guide to stop/backup/move left or right (to line up tress or animals or importantly get the right light) was no problem at all.

    We went to Samburu as our first place. It was a good appetizer for what we were going to see on the rest of the trip but also had the least "openness" for landscapes. My favorite area was the Mara triangle with the long grasses - The zebra shot was right near the Ololoolo gate of the National park. Also, the areas are so vast that what you think of as a landscape lens is probably too wide. for instance the zebra shot above was taken between 90 and 100mm. I have other shots that I consider landscape that were taken with the 100-300.

    Our guide knew from the beginning even before I arrived in kenya that I was interested in landscape and as I took shots that were in that genre I would show him what I was shooting and he then really understood.

    Our guide had a general plan with what we were going to do each day but there was nothing etched in stone and ours was a very individualized trip. So, my overall advice would be to plan well and speak to the company you use before going on the trip. We used a company called Topcats the other company that I know of that really specializes in photography is Origins.

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Quote Originally Posted by clark666 View Post
    Terry, how did the Oly glass work with the G3? I have a lot of Oly lenses and haven't decided whether to get a G3 or stay with my E620.
    Did you have any missed shots with the Oly/G3 combination? Is your G3 still for sale?
    I only had one lens the 14-54 Ver II. It was fine. Before deciding on glass I tried the 150mm f2 with and without teleconverter and focus was really not good. I don't have a stash of Oly glass or a 4/3 body so you should ask Oly people who have used their glass on the m4/3 bodies.

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Thank you. I will ask. There are threads at dPreview showing different opinions

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Lovely lovely images, Terry.
    Long gone are my Canons, these little Panasonics do most what I need other then MF.
    -bob

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post

    Lovely.
    Uwe Steinmueller
    -------------------

    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I only had one lens the 14-54 Ver II. It was fine. Before deciding on glass I tried the 150mm f2 with and without teleconverter and focus was really not good. I don't have a stash of Oly glass or a 4/3 body so you should ask Oly people who have used their glass on the m4/3 bodies.
    I only can confirm that 43 glass on m43 bodies just sucks WRT AF speed and accuracy.

    On the other side I must say that especially the SHG glass on 43 bodies like E5 is stellar - fast and accurate AF, sharp that it hurts and relatively light compared to FF, although still heavier and bulkier than it could be on m43.

    I especially liked the 2/150, which I used to shoot with my E1. The ideal wildlife lens and good to combine with teleconverters. Also great for shooting portrait BTW. Was one of my favorite and best lenses I ever owned. Could be one of the main reasons I might stay with the 43 E system

  18. #68
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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Terry, thanks for taking the time to reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Also, the areas are so vast that what you think of as a landscape lens is probably too wide. for instance the zebra shot above was taken between 90 and 100mm. I have other shots that I consider landscape that were taken with the 100-300.
    I've noticed that with what I've seen of Africa landscapes, it is a very good point. I frequently do landscapes at longer focal lengths already, I use my 45-200 for landscape all the time and have been thinking about the 100-300 as well. I even tote around a compact 500/8 reflex in my vehicle for highly compressed landscapes, though it is rare to find atmospheric conditions in which to use it!

    Thanks for the input on the vehicle selection. We know some hard core safari folks who are old hands at it so we might arrange a private tour with just a few people. I like the driving idea to avoid luggage limits. From what you've said I think I'll investigate that approach and perhaps stick to two photographers in a vehicle. My wife and I should be able to coordinate where we want the guide to put the vehicle without too much conflict!

    Thanks again,

    Ken

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    ZeebraShot
    fantastic image ... if you and I are in any way alike you'd be *really* pleased wit that one


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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    fantastic image ... if you and I are in any way alike you'd be *really* pleased wit that one

    Don't worry it made my 5 star cut.
    Last edited by Terry; 5th September 2011 at 21:13.

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I'm not sure what you are trying to explain here. With the two lenses you mention, a 1.4x TC will only get you to 450mm on an FF body and you will lose or at least get very slow AF. You would get more reach with a 1.6 crop body of course, but I doubt that a camera like the 7D will give better image quality if you use a 70-300 zoom with a TC than a GH2 without. The Canon alternative that would work well on a 7D is the 100-400mm, but that is considerably heavier, not to speak about much more expensive than the Pana 100-300. Better image quality? Maybe, maybe not.
    Since i have both 7D with 100-400 and GH2 with 100-300, and am leaving on a two week safari in Kenya tomorrow, I have tested both combinations. My FF Canons don't give me the detail resolution that either the above two combinations give me, so it will stay home. Either of the two above give me a lot more quality than I could ever manage with film for long reach.

    The GH2 with 100-300 in general gives me better image quality, particularly in good light because the optical quality of the 100-300 is noticeably better than that of the 100-400 Canon. I've tried 6 examples of the latter now, and while I have kept the best all have decentering which compromises performance and reduces it below that of the GH2 and 100-300 level. When the light gets low enough, the 7D and 100-400 pull ahead due to the better low light performance of the 7D. However, it's not worth taking the 7D just for that and it's also a lot bigger and heavier.

    So I'm taking the GH2, G3 with 14-140, 100-300, 7-14, 12/2, 20/1.7, 45/2.8 and also a 75 AA Summicron with adapter. This is one lens that is fully up to the requirements of the m4/3 sensor, and the focal length is just short enough to make MF reasonable. Many other lenses aren't up to use on the m4/3 sensor, including pretty well most 200 and above lenses originally designed with 35mm film in mind. I'd love to get my hands on the Leica 280/4 APO and put that on the GH2, but they're too much for a MF lens for my taste.

    I know that my Nikkor 180/2.8 ED isn't worth taking, because the image quality isn't good enough, and neither is any version of the 300mm ED Nikkors, and the only good enough 400, the old Nikkor 400/5.6PC is too clumsy to handle. My tests with all these longer lenses, including most Nikon and Canon MF, increase my respect for the unassuming 100-300 all the more.

    On previous trips to Africa I've taken FF cameras with 100-400, with 1.4x and that combination didn't do it, especially if taking pictures of birds. I'd want to take something like the Nikkor 200-400/4 and tc, (but the image quality of that lens isn't that exciting) and at least a 500/4 or 600/4.

    As I don't use that sort of glass for my work, I'd have to buy/rent it and then haul it. Not going to happen. My whole Panasonic kit fits in a Domke 803, and that goes with me into the airplane cabin.

    Great pictures, Terry. I'll look at them in more detail when I get back.

    Henning

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Have a great trip. My bet is you will keep the 100-300 bolted on the GH2 the entire time.

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Terry...would you have been hampered in any way if you used 2 G3s instead of the GH2?

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Quote Originally Posted by jsnack View Post
    Terry...would you have been hampered in any way if you used 2 G3s instead of the GH2?
    I don't think so. I had two G3's with me but one had never been used. So, I figured I might as well keep it unused unless I needed it. I knew I would sell at least one if not two bodies when I got back so having one remain new was a consideration as to why I used both GH2 and G3 combo. Because the controls are a bit different, using two G3's would have been marginally simpler.

    I won't deny with the bigger grip the 100-300 is probably a bit better on that body but that doesn't mean I would't have gotten the same shots with the G3. However the biggest consideration is finding a good shooting position where you can use your arms/elbows to set up a stable shooting platform on the roof of the vehicle. You can see the person standing with their head out of the hatch.

    Attachment 48482

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    Terry

    That landscape shot with the Zebras is fantastic! It also illustrates another feature of 100-300 I have noticed when using it for landscape - good microconstrast in distant objects. Well done!

    LouisB

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    That zebra shot is fantastic Terry!

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    Re: Using m4/3 on safari

    I've finally got some working galleries up on my site......They are still going to change with some additions and in the color gallery some whittling down and most importantly getting all the file sizes equalized, but....it is a start

    http://www.terrybanet.com/?page_id=11








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