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Thread: OMG!

  1. #101
    Member kwalsh's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Just to go to the OMD, which if it uses the same sensor as the GX1, doesn't have as much DR as the GH2.

    - Raist
    The difference between the DR of the GX1 and GH2 is pretty small at base ISO. Don't be fooled by the flawed SNR measurement point at DxO that over-emphasizes the difference. Try actually pushing the shadows of the two sensors to a "useful" level and there is little difference between them. At 4 stops below middle gray the SNR is the same.

    Which is not to say the GH2 isn't a little better, and I'd prefer to see GH2 sensors in future cameras.

    Really, what is holding these sensors back for best base ISO performance is the saturation capacity. And that's identical between all the m43 sensors.

    Ken

  2. #102
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    new leaked photo ...

    http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...om-dlenses.jpg

    I may be off into another world of equipment now, but I'm still excited.

    Olympus has always made fine lenses, and fine cameras at the top end of their range, and this one looks like it has a lot of promise. It's good to see them moving forwards with the unique products that were always their hallmark.

    Much nicer to see this than to read about one bit after another of corporate stupidity and greed.

  3. #103
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    Re: OMG!

    Still want to hear what the flash sync speed is (hoping for 1/250), but I'm buying one. No doubt about it now.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  4. #104
    Markus
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    Re: new leaked photo ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...om-dlenses.jpg

    I may be off into another world of equipment now, but I'm still excited.

    Olympus has always made fine lenses, and fine cameras at the top end of their range, and this one looks like it has a lot of promise. It's good to see them moving forwards with the unique products that were always their hallmark.

    Much nicer to see this than to read about one bit after another of corporate stupidity and greed.
    I agree, Olympus are finally getting into the swing of things. They should have released something like this about a year ago and would have been pretty much ahead of the competition.

    The 75/1,8 is promising - finally a AF version of the Pen F 70mm.

    Maybe it's a good thing I haven't sold off my MFT lenses yet.

  5. #105
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    Re: OMG!

    This reminds me a lot of the good, old OM days, and think about it; it's less than three years since Olympus launched the E-P1 and three years and a half since Panasonic started selling the G1. And now this:



    In addition, all the Panasonic bodies and lenses, third party gear etc. Very impressive and this makes the choice for the way forward very easy for me.

  6. #106
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by kwalsh View Post
    The difference between the DR of the GX1 and GH2 is pretty small at base ISO. Don't be fooled by the flawed SNR measurement point at DxO that over-emphasizes the difference.
    Why exactly is it flawed?

    Try actually pushing the shadows of the two sensors to a "useful" level and there is little difference between them. At 4 stops below middle gray the SNR is the same.
    But total DR is shadow and also highlight DR. But I am all about seeing for myself. If you know of a good place with RAWS (photography blog I guess) Ill check it out. It's tough without having the same exposures but if the difference in the DR is as big as it seems, maybe at least a small inclination can be had towards believing what Dxo marked.

    Which is not to say the GH2 isn't a little better, and I'd prefer to see GH2 sensors in future cameras.

    Really, what is holding these sensors back for best base ISO performance is the saturation capacity. And that's identical between all the m43 sensors.
    Ken
    Hmm why is it identical between all m43rd sensors? I don't think all the designs have the same efficiency(?)

    - Raist

  7. #107
    Member kwalsh's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Why exactly is it flawed?
    Maybe flawed is a strong word on my part. How about, "not photographically relevant". They measure DR where the signal-to-noise is 0dB - noise and scene detail are equal magnitude. This is a totally unusable shadow for a photographer - you'd never even try to use such a thing. 0dB is a nice arbitrary engineering measure, and one I understand is even used in many sensor datasheets. So it isn't like they are doing anything wrong using it.

    The rub is that if the SNR curves were linear it wouldn't matter where they chose. 0dB, 10dB, -10dB - whatever - we are only comparing cameras and all that matters is the comparison, not the absolute value. The problem is that the curves are not linear at all. And at least at the moment with the technology right at base ISO many cameras have a bend in their SNR curve near this 0dB point. So what happens by choosing a "really noisy shadow" as their reference point they give more benefit to a camera with really low read noise than is really useful to a photographer. If they chose a higher SNR as their reference point (6dB, 10 dB?) the GX1/G3 and GH2 sensors would have closer DR. You can see this if you look at their "Full SNR" curve tab (not available in the compare feature, must go to the individual camera reviews). Imatest provides "DR" measurements for a few different SNRs with some different number crunching to try to be a bit more "photographically relevant".


    But total DR is shadow and also highlight DR.
    That's right. DxO just measures between a saturated sensor and an SNR of 0dB, so they get both shadow and highlight in one measurement - the choice of the grey point is arbitrary. The only problem is 0dB is just a bit too low to measure if our goal is to compare "usable" DR, as described above. When they started doing their measurements it was probably a non-issue, but now that we've got some incredibly low read noise sensors out there it is skewing the results in a way not practical to photographers.

    But I am all about seeing for myself. If you know of a good place with RAWS (photography blog I guess) Ill check it out. It's tough without having the same exposures but if the difference in the DR is as big as it seems, maybe at least a small inclination can be had towards believing what Dxo marked.
    DPReview has their studio shots, and they include a shadow box that is good for pushing to see how the shadow noise looks. The RAW files are downloadable. The problem is they really don't have a good highlight feature anywhere in the scene to make sure the camera hasn't just traded shadow range for highlight range. You can kind of get around this by verifying that the exposure was the same and then go look at DxO's ISO measurements for the cameras. Their ISO measurement is in fact just a measurement of the saturation level of the RAW file. By noting the exposures used in the DPR test and checking the DxO ISO measurement you can adjust how much you push the shadows for each camera for a "fair" comparison.


    Hmm why is it identical between all m43rd sensors? I don't think all the designs have the same efficiency(?)
    They don't, but they do have nearly the same saturation level (adjusted for sensor resolution differences) - by which I mean the maximum number of photons that can be collected before clipping. The measured ISO of the sensor relates to efficiency of course. However, if what we really want is nice clean mid-tones and the freedom to push and pull an exposure without noise showing up everywhere (not just the shadows) then we want to gather as many photons as possible so we will have the lowest photon shot noise. And this is set by the saturation level, which is just about the same for all the cameras (the GH1 is the odd man out here, slightly higher than the others but only by 1/3 of a stop).

    Efficiency measures how fast "the well" fills up. Saturation measures how deep "the well" is. For best low ISO noise performance we want the deepest "well" possible but don't particularly care how fast it fills. For best high ISO performance our concerns are exactly the opposite - it could be a shallow well (we won't ever get to collect many photons anyway at high ISO) but we want it to fill efficiently.

    Ken

  8. #108
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Will the tilting OLED be reversible (flipped 180), to protect the surface when it is not in use?

  9. #109
    Member kwalsh's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Ostling View Post
    Will the tilting OLED be reversible (flipped 180), to protect the surface when it is not in use?
    No, not if it is like any of the others on Olympus or Sony cameras. The only ones that flip to face the camera back are the tilt and swivels like on the Panasonic G/GH series.

    Ken

  10. #110
    Senior Member ggibson's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Ostling View Post
    Will the tilting OLED be reversible (flipped 180), to protect the surface when it is not in use?
    Doesn't look like it. It appears to be similar to the E-PL3 screen.

    Also, did anyone else notice the double shutter buttons on the battery grip for both orientations?

    I must say, this camera is incredibly tempting...

  11. #111
    Senior Member RichA's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    NEX-7, GH2, G3, OM-D, Fuji X-Pro1????????????????

    Likely, I will get the OM-D, provided there are no issues with it.

  12. #112
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    Re: OMG!

    Tomorrow is the big hump (aka OMD) day, Rich!

  13. #113
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by kwalsh View Post
    Maybe flawed is a strong word on my part. How about, "not photographically relevant". They measure DR where the signal-to-noise is 0dB - noise and scene detail are equal magnitude. This is a totally unusable shadow for a photographer - you'd never even try to use such a thing. 0dB is a nice arbitrary engineering measure, and one I understand is even used in many sensor datasheets. So it isn't like they are doing anything wrong using it.
    But I don't see this as an issue because the measurements are all equal for all cameras. So if a camera is ranked at 12 stops, and another at 10, I certainly would expect a comparative difference here.

    The rub is that if the SNR curves were linear it wouldn't matter where they chose. 0dB, 10dB, -10dB - whatever - we are only comparing cameras and all that matters is the comparison, not the absolute value. The problem is that the curves are not linear at all. And at least at the moment with the technology right at base ISO many cameras have a bend in their SNR curve near this 0dB point. So what happens by choosing a "really noisy shadow" as their reference point they give more benefit to a camera with really low read noise than is really useful to a photographer.
    But again, a camera with a sensor with a really low read noise can certainly have a lot of DR. If you expose to the right you are using it. Or by under exposing and developing up. This would move the DR to the highlights and cut in the shadows but if the shadows are that good you can afford to without much impact to image quality (specific case: K-5 sensor for example)

    If they chose a higher SNR as their reference point (6dB, 10 dB?) the GX1/G3 and GH2 sensors would have closer DR. You can see this if you look at their "Full SNR" curve tab (not available in the compare feature, must go to the individual camera reviews). Imatest provides "DR" measurements for a few different SNRs with some different number crunching to try to be a bit more "photographically relevant".
    But that would mean then that they are ignoring the DR in the shadows. Again, low shadow noise is equal to DR you can use- either when you expose to the right or under expose and develop back up. And when you do the last you move the whole DR scale to capture more highlight range. This is what the Pentax/Canon call "highlight priority" (er.. highlight correction in Pentax). Sony allows the same.

    With Olympus coming the E-30, they are doing this but other than setting the camera to ISO 100 (when available) you are stuck with very noisy shadows as the whole DR scale was prioritized for highlights at all times.

    So I still don't understand how DXo doing it that way still fails to account for real world photographic DR we can use.

    That's right. DxO just measures between a saturated sensor and an SNR of 0dB, so they get both shadow and highlight in one measurement - the choice of the grey point is arbitrary. The only problem is 0dB is just a bit too low to measure if our goal is to compare "usable" DR, as described above. When they started doing their measurements it was probably a non-issue, but now that we've got some incredibly low read noise sensors out there it is skewing the results in a way not practical to photographers.
    Once again, that is indeed part of DR. I can tell you right now the K-5 has bags of shadow DR and I can shift it at will to get highlights, making it quite real world usable indeed.

    DPReview has their studio shots, and they include a shadow box that is good for pushing to see how the shadow noise looks. The RAW files are downloadable. The problem is they really don't have a good highlight feature anywhere in the scene to make sure the camera hasn't just traded shadow range for highlight range. You can kind of get around this by verifying that the exposure was the same and then go look at DxO's ISO measurements for the cameras. Their ISO measurement is in fact just a measurement of the saturation level of the RAW file. By noting the exposures used in the DPR test and checking the DxO ISO measurement you can adjust how much you push the shadows for each camera for a "fair" comparison.
    Well in general I have measured DR relative to other cameras my own way with several Olympus cameras (e-300, e-330, e-410, e-420, E-3, e-620) and other brands (LX3, LX5, K-5, Pentax Q) and the numbers that DXo has have pretty much always corresponded to a certain level of "where do these cameras stand" relative to each other's DR.

    They don't, but they do have nearly the same saturation level (adjusted for sensor resolution differences) - by which I mean the maximum number of photons that can be collected before clipping. The measured ISO of the sensor relates to efficiency of course. However, if what we really want is nice clean mid-tones and the freedom to push and pull an exposure without noise showing up everywhere (not just the shadows) then we want to gather as many photons as possible so we will have the lowest photon shot noise. And this is set by the saturation level, which is just about the same for all the cameras (the GH1 is the odd man out here, slightly higher than the others but only by 1/3 of a stop).

    Efficiency measures how fast "the well" fills up. Saturation measures how deep "the well" is. For best low ISO noise performance we want the deepest "well" possible but don't particularly care how fast it fills. For best high ISO performance our concerns are exactly the opposite - it could be a shallow well (we won't ever get to collect many photons anyway at high ISO) but we want it to fill efficiently.
    Ken
    Hmm ok.

    - Raist

  14. #114
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    Re: OMG!

    The expression of this thread OMG is very APT.
    I grew up with an extensive line of Olympus OM cameras, as a student, the OM10. Then I got the OM2n, OM4, OM4Ti, OM3 and OM1n for nostalgia. I had all their famous lenses and motor-drives and their amazing flash system... loved it.
    Now Oly have come out with this same LOOK and all of a sudden the Canikony LUMPS of dslr look dated... what a paradigm shift. Dont get me wrong cos I used the Canons and Nikons extensively too, both Film and Digital. But betting that an OM look is relevant today...WOW what a good bet. It's going to sell really well. The old pentaprism instead of darth vader's helmet for example... shouts MAN TOY. Getting this camera just for the LOOKS is a no-brainer. The fact it has 16mp, shoots high ISO 3 times better than an Ep2 and is going to be superbly competent is icing on the cake...hehe. Now my Olympus Ep2 with a small 25mm cmount f1.4 lens can be used as a travel/stealth outfit whilst the OM-D is for some serious shooting. My Ep2 is so battered its probably not worth selling it, plus it still works perfectly. Samples here.
    Flickr: Please wait...

  15. #115
    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    The silver one looks really nice to me:


  16. #116
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    Re: OMG!

    Thanks for that Amin
    It Looks great doesn't it
    definitely drool (I must not bite, I must not bite, I must not bite!)
    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: OMG!

    Finally, it appears that the "new sensor" in EM-5 is only 40% less noisy than the dated EP-3' s 12MP sensor.

    => GH-2 still rules.

  18. #118
    Member kwalsh's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Finally, it appears that the "new sensor" in EM-5 is only 40% less noisy than the dated EP-3' s 12MP sensor.

    => GH-2 still rules.
    Yeah, as somewhat useless as that quote was in my mind it confirms G3/GX1 sensor (which is fine by me, a whole lot better than the old 12MP sensor).

    Ken

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    Re: OMG!

    I'm a little surprised at the positive reaction to the looks of it, when so much criticism was dumped on the Panosonic G1 for the "faux" bump on the top. Can't get anymore "faux" than the OM bump - no prism in that prism housing!
    It would be nice to get a real motor in that bolt-on battery grip, so it would remind us of film moving through this thing.
    I admire Pentax's sentiments with the fresh modern K-01 design rather than this Oly OM rehash.

    Keith

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    I admire Pentax's sentiments with the fresh modern K-01 design rather than this Oly OM rehash.

    Keith
    HI Keith
    I reckon there's room for both . . . but I'm inclined to agree that the K-01 design is more innovative . . . . . . except that it doesn't have any kind of viewfinder option I just spent a week shooting in snowy mountains - the EVF of the NEX7 was bad enough (and no better than the Olympus VF2 in this case) - but the LCD was completely unseeable on any camera . . . which would mean pointing and hoping with the K-01!

    I'm also not sure that 'rehash' is quite fair - it's got the references on the outside, but, like the modern mini, there's not much else in common. I think the back is rather stunning on the OMD as well (and of course, has nothing to do with an OM).

    Just this guy you know

  21. #121
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    I don't know - Olympus seem to have a good eye for camera esthetics... at least to my taste.

    I do like that Pentax tried to go 'out there' on their camera design - and wouldn't write it off on looks, before trying it for feel. Looks can be deceptive.

    Cheers

    Brian

  22. #122
    Member kwalsh's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    But I don't see this as an issue because the measurements are all equal for all cameras. So if a camera is ranked at 12 stops, and another at 10, I certainly would expect a comparative difference here.
    Only if the SNR curves are linear, which they are not. That was my point. For the GX1 and GH2 for example going from 0dB to around 12dB takes the difference in DR from 0.9EV to 0.6EV. Not a huge difference, to be sure, but not the same either.

    This is also why the MF sensors look so "poor" on DxO. Using 0dB as the reference the K5 vs the 645D gives you 13.6 vs 11.3. Using 20dB gives 8.4 vs 7.5. That's 2.3 stops difference with one measure, 0.9 stops with another. The choice of DR measurement level can't be arbitrary without imparting an arbitrary bias to the differences between sensors.

    It is just the problem with trying to take a complex system and boil it down to a single number. Certainly the numbers do indicate which sensor has the lower read noise, and that means the lower shadow noise as well. The issue is that the differences can be arbitrary magnified. They of course don't include things like WB which can be as large a difference as well - especially when you consider most low light shooting is tungsten.

    So when you see differences at a fraction of a EV on DxO one should be really careful to start looking at real images instead. When you see huge differences (e.g. K5/D7000 vs m43) then you can be fairly confident you'll see a noticeable difference in real world shooting.

    So I still don't understand how DXo doing it that way still fails to account for real world photographic DR we can use.
    It's just a question of what SNR level to use. Why not use -20dB instead? Then the GH2 and K5 advantage would be even more EV. Why 0db? Because it is a round number? Go push shadows to the level that DxO claims for the dynamic range and see if you consider them useful - they aren't. So maybe 10dB or 15dB is a better number?

    Again, if you could arbitrarily chose an SNR number and it wouldn't affect the differences between cameras then that would be fine. But that is not the case, what level you choose does affect the differences. Not necessarily between all cameras, and not necessarily by huge amounts, but on the other hand you have forum nuts belittling sensors that have DxO DR measurements of a fraction of an EV lower than other sensors and as just demonstrated the choice in SNR level can affect the measurements by that much or more.

    Ken

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    I'm a little surprised at the positive reaction to the looks of it, when so much criticism was dumped on the Panosonic G1 for the "faux" bump on the top. Can't get anymore "faux" than the OM bump - no prism in that prism housing!
    It would be nice to get a real motor in that bolt-on battery grip, so it would remind us of film moving through this thing.
    I admire Pentax's sentiments with the fresh modern K-01 design rather than this Oly OM rehash.

    Keith
    I'm somewhat agnostic to the looks, but at first glance, it appears to be a camera that will handle well for me. I have never minded the "hump" on the G series either though.

    The Pentax design definitely didn't work for me with respect to functionality: no viewfinder, no tilting screen. The whole holding the camera out at arms length thing...

    So far, I am remaining quite positive about this one. Waiting to see real world info about the IQ and how the controls are laid out and used. It has pretty much everything else I could ask for.

    Doug

  24. #124
    Member kwalsh's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    "Full" specs now at 43rumors, just FYI...

    Ken

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    Re: OMG!

    Underwater housing? I think I'm going to have to start saving.

  26. #126
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by photoSmart42 View Post
    Still want to hear what the flash sync speed is (hoping for 1/250), but I'm buying one. No doubt about it now.
    You got your wish according to 43rumors... 1/250th sync speed.

    I'm wondering what the video improvements are, since rumors indicated that the EM-5's video quality was better than the GH2. Since it's likely using the G3/GX1 sensor (analog), I'm slightly doubtful.

  27. #127
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Tomorrow is the big hump (aka OMD) day, Rich!
    Yes, it won't be long now! I also have faith in Olympus actually HAVING product to sell reasonably soon, unlike the other 4/3rds company that seems to exist in a perpertual state of product shortage!

  28. #128
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    The silver one looks really nice to me:

    Looks nice, like an SLR camera of 1970s-1980s vintage: slim, trim and crisp. I hope it performs to meet the expectations of its OM system heritage. I look forward to seeing one in the flesh when they hit the stores.

  29. #129
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    Re: OMG!

    http://olympusomd.com/global/omd/e-m5/overview/gallery/

    Perfect! I'm going down to the local pusher today to check delivery time

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by ggibson View Post
    You got your wish according to 43rumors... 1/250th sync speed.

    I'm wondering what the video improvements are, since rumors indicated that the EM-5's video quality was better than the GH2. Since it's likely using the G3/GX1 sensor (analog), I'm slightly doubtful.
    Yes, I did. The Olympus spec sheet confirms it. Now to just decide silver or black. Pre-ordering tomorrow.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  31. #131
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    Re: OMG!

    I'm thinking black will match the grip better, and be lower profile. The silver looks very retro stylish.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: OMG!

    Not only that, it is easier to blacken the white logos than convert the black logo to silver.

  33. #133
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    Re: OMG!

    I think my m43rd Lieca DG 25/1.4 deserves to be mounted on one of these!

    However, I must see some full size samples at high iso, at least 3200 before making a decision.

    LouisB

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    Re: OMG!

    Saw the official announcement now. Looks very nice, but I am a little concerned with how many buttons and knobs there are on such a small body. It might be somewhat cramped in use. It's the sort of thing that only handling it in person can answer.

    Other questions aside, bravo! Looks very nice.

  35. #135
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    True, you can never tell how a cameras will feel from the web... Although there's a first introduction video from Olympus, showing the control dials behave similarly to the E-5... which should be very satisfying for rapid control.

    Cheers

    Brian

  36. #136
    Senior Member RichA's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    I'm a little surprised at the positive reaction to the looks of it, when so much criticism was dumped on the Panosonic G1 for the "faux" bump on the top. Can't get anymore "faux" than the OM bump - no prism in that prism housing!
    It would be nice to get a real motor in that bolt-on battery grip, so it would remind us of film moving through this thing.
    I admire Pentax's sentiments with the fresh modern K-01 design rather than this Oly OM rehash.

    Keith
    The G1 was a bad execution. I liked the body and the hump is mostly flash so no problem there, but the "skin" covering the camera did not work out, it peeled from key impact areas in all cases. The GH2 isn't much better, it is basically a slippery camera to hold onto because they got rid of the rubbery skin and replaced it with semi-smooth plastic. The Olympus is traditional with apparently a much better covering. Maybe in future they could put a GPS or a flash in the hump area?

  37. #137
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    True, you can never tell how a cameras will feel from the web... Although there's a first introduction video from Olympus, showing the control dials behave similarly to the E-5... which should be very satisfying for rapid control.

    Cheers

    Brian
    In some of the videos it looks like with the grip attached it makes for a nice, solid setup.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  38. #138
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    I admire Pentax's sentiments with the fresh modern K-01 design rather than this Oly OM rehash.
    Well, I guess that makes two of you... you and Marc Newson.

  39. #139
    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    For me, the icing on the cake is the report coming from Imaging Resource and elsewhere that this camera has a pleasing, muted shutter sound.

    From IR:

    When we first tried the E-M5, we noticed that the shutter sound was considerably quieter than the E-PM1 I'd brought along. Then we got out the Sony NEX-7 and put it in electronic first curtain mode, its quietest setting, and the Olympus E-M5 was quieter than that as well. Very impressive. The Olympus E-M5 is likely to be an excellent street camera.
    You can hear the shutter sound relative to the volume of the guys voice at ~3:12 in this video.

    I feel as though Olympus made this camera specifically for me. I can find absolutely nothing to complain about.

  40. #140
    Senior Member Riley's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    But I don't see this as an issue because the measurements are all equal for all cameras. So if a camera is ranked at 12 stops, and another at 10, I certainly would expect a comparative difference here.
    it isnt 'equal'
    they do not account for Sony sensor black-level offset in Nikon's for instance, this gives Nikon an advantage in reducing the noise floor, hence artificially widening the DR as they have a noise cut-off.
    The same is true to Sony sensor cooked RAWs, they can tell you its happening but they dont correct their data, another advantage to Sony sensors.

    measure a K5 or D7000 in IMATEST and they produce around 12 stops of DR not all that far from anyone else.
    The same system sees 4/3rds sensors with 11.5 stops DR in RAW that magically gets reduced to 10.5 stops engineering DR or so in DxO,
    which is of course - impossible. DxO Im sure are good for some things, this isnt one of them ...

    youve been told this time after time and still dont get it
    but eventually, like the faked ISO you used to claim one can hope that somehow it penetrates
    eventually

  41. #141
    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    Ive been waiting for a camera to bring me back to the micro 4/3 world and this might just be it. Im sure Oly is exagerating, but they say that ISO 12,800 is "totally usable". If I can get iso 6400 and DR comparable to the NEX5 then Im sold!

    Olympus OM-D E-M5 Micro Four Thirds camera preview (video) -- Engadget

  42. #142
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    Re: OMG!

    ummm
    I dont think so
    but have a look for your self, these are camera processed jpegs in a scene that can only be described as well lit
    Olympus OM-D E-M5 ??????? ???? - ???? - Olympus OM-D E-M5??? - ePrice ???

    still, should be ok for video

  43. #143
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    Re: OMG!

    Youre right. Its hard to come to any conclusions in conditions like this.

  44. #144
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    True, you can never tell how a cameras will feel from the web... Although there's a first introduction video from Olympus, showing the control dials behave similarly to the E-5... which should be very satisfying for rapid control.
    I saw the video, but they don't give me much sense for the feel in the hand. The Olympus E-1 and E-5 are much larger bodies and the major controls fit my hands beautifully, particularly with the E-1 (still a masterpiece of camera ergonomic design IMO).

    It's a concern only, though, as I'm pretty much done buying equipment for some time to come. What I have now is doing me very well.

  45. #145
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    Re: OMG!

    The camera Gods say "more you talk about not needing it, greater the chance you will buy it!"
    Turned out to be true with me - I ordered the Nex 7 after holding out for months. This OM-D, I definitely do not need. I'm happy with my GXR. I've dusted off my OM-2, my Nex 7 is yet to arrive, I have to see what the 15mp sigmas look like, I haven't used my GH-2 yet - how could I possible need the . . . . . . . . . ?
    Oh, dear

    Keith

  46. #146
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    The camera Gods say "more you talk about not needing it, greater the chance you will buy it!"
    Turned out to be true with me - I ordered the Nex 7 after holding out for months. This OM-D, I definitely do not need. I'm happy with my GXR. I've dusted off my OM-2, my Nex 7 is yet to arrive, I have to see what the 15mp sigmas look like, I haven't used my GH-2 yet - how could I possible need the . . . . . . . . . ?
    Oh, dear

    Keith
    Excellent . . . I've made a grand start in my quest not to by the OMG . . . it's been announced for more than 12 hours and I haven't placed an order.

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  47. #147
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    I'm thinking black will match the grip better, and be lower profile. The silver looks very retro stylish.

    Cheers

    Brian
    Pre-order placed. I agree that the black one looks better.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  48. #148
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Excellent . . . I've made a grand start in my quest not to by the OMG . . . it's been announced for more than 12 hours and I haven't placed an order.
    Playing hard to get, eh? A sign of long lasting love if there ever was one

    Oh, and by the way, Jono, I think they made this one specially for you

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igcMA...ature=youtu.be

  49. #149
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    I'm a little surprised at the positive reaction to the looks of it, when so much criticism was dumped on the Panosonic G1 for the "faux" bump on the top. Can't get anymore "faux" than the OM bump - no prism in that prism housing!
    It would be nice to get a real motor in that bolt-on battery grip, so it would remind us of film moving through this thing.
    I admire Pentax's sentiments with the fresh modern K-01 design rather than this Oly OM rehash.

    Keith
    Maybe you should check the reaction at 43rumors and dpreview m4/3rds forum :-) I think it's fine when people see it because the camera is very small.

    - Raist

  50. #150
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    True, you can never tell how a cameras will feel from the web... Although there's a first introduction video from Olympus, showing the control dials behave similarly to the E-5... which should be very satisfying for rapid control.

    Cheers

    Brian
    To me it looks better than the E-3/E-5 - no confusion on the upper left on the three buttons with no tactile feel. The buttons on the upper right (looking at it from the back) look very small though.

    - Raist

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