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Thread: OMG!

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    Exclamation OMG!

    Olympus are trying yet another curtain trick with intentional leaks about their new m4/3rds cam.

    Here is what I gather from the rumors sites and such:

    1. A "Pen Pro" with a 16MP sensor. This would have an integrated EVF. The rumored curtain raising is Feb 8th.

    2. Possibly a camera named OMD (they have registered a trade mark name recently), possibly with a new mount and possibly with a large sensor- this could be the next Photokina.

    I am excited about the 16MP (most likely the Panasonic GH-2 sensor) cam. I have a choice between that or one more GH-2. Not too thrilled with the NEX-7.

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    Re: OMG!

    Why do you think it's the GH2 sensor rather than the G3 sensor? Regardless, I'd be happy. Both are good sensors, which coupled with Olympus body image stabilization should allow for very good low light shooting with the existing primes.

    Why not too thrilled with NEX-7?

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    Why do you think it's the GH2 sensor rather than the G3 sensor? Regardless, I'd be happy. Both are good sensors, which coupled with Olympus body image stabilization should allow for very good low light shooting with the existing primes.

    Why not too thrilled with NEX-7?
    Yeah, sensor stabilization plus a good EVF would make it interesting. A tilt/swivel screen would make it VERY interesting.

    Doug

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    Why do you think it's the GH2 sensor rather than the G3 sensor? Regardless, I'd be happy. Both are good sensors, which coupled with Olympus body image stabilization should allow for very good low light shooting with the existing primes.

    Why not too thrilled with NEX-7?
    Yup!

    NEX-7, my list (to myself) isn't complete yet.

    You do any street shooting?

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Yup!

    NEX-7, my list (to myself) isn't complete yet.
    I agree . . . but Sony's history of 'completing' cameras is actually quite good - especially the higher range cameras.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    You do any street shooting?
    A little. I'm very happy with both of my cameras (E-P3 and NEX-C3) for that application.

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    Re: OMG!

    Neither of those cameras suit me.

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Olympus are trying yet another curtain trick with intentional leaks about their new m4/3rds cam.

    Here is what I gather from the rumors sites and such:

    1. A "Pen Pro" with a 16MP sensor. This would have an integrated EVF. The rumored curtain raising is Feb 8th.

    2. Possibly a camera named OMD (they have registered a trade mark name recently), possibly with a new mount and possibly with a large sensor- this could be the next Photokina.

    I am excited about the 16MP (most likely the Panasonic GH-2 sensor) cam. I have a choice between that or one more GH-2. Not too thrilled with the NEX-7.
    Sorry to hear that the NEX 7 isn't working out for you. I was quite interested in it as well, but after seeing its rendering issues with the lenses I want to use I crossed it off my list entirely. The GXR-M does a better job for me.

    I've been expecting a pro-grade Olympus Pen this year. I'm very happy to see they're ramping up to it: I think it's an essential product for Olympus to cement their FourThirds and Micro-FourThirds lines together in the most sensible way possible. What they style it to look like and what they name it is completely inconsequential to me. I'm excited to hear what they come out with ... Olympus cameras have always been excellent at the pro-grade end of their spectrum.

    That said, I've gone a different direction now. But I will keep my E-1 and ZD 35 Macro ... that's just too sweet a camera and lens to part with for the pittance it will bring in if I sold it. And my Nikkors work very nicely on the E-1 too.

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    Re: OMG!

    Silly as it may sound, Godfrey, I am still planning to buy a GXR. I don't know when and I don't know if it is going to be the A16.

    The NEX-7 does not appear to be very convincing for certain applications but it is a fairly inexpensive (I do not say this lightly at all) platform for what I intend to do with it.

    The GH-2, on the other hand, scores better in my books for a lot of the things I need. Including the EVF which is much more comfortable for me.

    One of the rumors about the Olympus "pen pro" is presumably a new type of EVF. Really nice!

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Silly as it may sound, Godfrey, I am still planning to buy a GXR. I don't know when and I don't know if it is going to be the A16.
    ...
    One of the rumors about the Olympus "pen pro" is presumably a new type of EVF. Really nice!
    I don't think it sounds silly at all. The Ricoh GXR system is a revolutionary and innovative concept ... Given my 8 months or so using it, I'm still delighted with it and will continue to use it. All the A12 camera units perform very very well, modulo some shortcomings. The A12 Camera Mount was done particularly well and really does support RF camera lenses extremely well. When and if they go to the A16 sensor in this camera unit, I am sure that it will work brilliantly ... but there's really no hurry at all about it given how well the A12 works. I hope that Ricoh continues to develop the GXR system as, when it comes to all electronic cameras, this is the most innovative system concept on the market.

    I've not found the NEX line to be much to my liking due to their control and ergonomics choices. The NEX 7 is the best of the lot, but for my use and intent it just doesn't make it.

    Olympus will I hope pull off a new EVF and focusing system that completes the integration of FT and mFT. I can't see them completely re-developing a lens line like the Zuiko Digital super-high-grade lenses ... they're just too superb in their current implementation and the cost to do so would be astronomical. So they need to focus on the focusing system and viewfinder to surpass what the E-5 provides for that brilliant lens line. The only sensible direction is electronic imaging of a very high calibre ... and that will take time.

    My own photography has changed timbre enough in the past year that I no longer want or need the pro-grade SLR system. I love the E-5but it and the lenses for it are far more than I want to carry for the photography I am doing now. My experience with Micro-FourThirds was good but again the lenses were the limiting factor: native lenses not to the spec I wanted, FourThirds SLR lenses too bulky, adapted mount lenses better but still not quite the right solution. For my use the GXR system and M-mount has moved well past what I was doing with the G1 and continues to provide satisfying results, in a smaller package with better controls and features, and with lenses that I prefer.

    From here the path I am going is known... :-)

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I've not found the NEX line to be much to my liking due to their control and ergonomics choices. The NEX 7 is the best of the lot, but for my use and intent it just doesn't make it.


    From here the path I am going is known... :-)
    The NEX' make gorgeous cams. I hope Sony will find it in themselves to issue ltd editions sets one of these days.

    As for the last line, how I wish I could say that..... about anything!

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Olympus are trying yet another curtain trick with intentional leaks about their new m4/3rds cam.

    Here is what I gather from the rumors sites and such:

    1. A "Pen Pro" with a 16MP sensor. This would have an integrated EVF. The rumored curtain raising is Feb 8th.

    2. Possibly a camera named OMD (they have registered a trade mark name recently), possibly with a new mount and possibly with a large sensor- this could be the next Photokina.

    I am excited about the 16MP (most likely the Panasonic GH-2 sensor) cam. I have a choice between that or one more GH-2. Not too thrilled with the NEX-7.
    The NEX-7 has two major specs that dwarf the offering from Pan/Olympus.
    -24 megapixels with great image quality.
    -The best EVF going.

    Has made my head spin trying to decide between it and the GH2 which I've used fairly extensively. But, this OM could very well change the game.
    Failing any of them, I'll throw in the towel, save money and buy a G3

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    Re: OMG!

    The OMD is more likely to use a g1x sensor tweaked, not the gh2, unfortunately.

    However the nex has one thing that puts them at a disadvantage and that is bigger worse lenses on the nex mount. 16 mp unless you do landscape I see as a non issue particularly if with a weaker as filter the OMD would come close.

    The Evf on the nex is higher Rez but I bet the OMD one will look better in low
    Light.

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by RichA View Post
    The NEX-7 has two major specs that dwarf the offering from Pan/Olympus.
    -24 megapixels with great image quality.
    -The best EVF going.
    G3
    And quiet remarkable high ISO performance compared to all M4/3 cameras, and that with so many more megapixels.
    I did not test bigger prints yet, but I will soon. I expect a lot from it.

    Michiel

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by RichA View Post
    -24 megapixels with great image quality.
    The day Sony offers a collection of lenses that compares to m4/3, 24MP may be of significance, but until then... nah. I went to an exhibition opening yesterday. A couple of my photos, and several photos by others, taken with 12MP cameras (D300 and GH1 in my case) had been printed 500 x 250 cm and the viewing distance was 5-6 meters at the most. I doubt that anybody would have noticed the difference if they had been taken with a 24MP camera. They simply looked great.

    If the OM-D uses the GX sensor and Olympus gives it the same treatment as they did with the 12MP sensor in the E-5, the results will most probably be great and hard to beat with any camera this side of medium format, considering the high quality lenses that have been developed for 4/3 and m4/3.

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    Re: OMG!

    Could be Jorgen. I am really glad with my 12MP Ricoh sensor, makes beautiful prints.

    Still for legacy lenses, the focussing (focus peaking and Quality EVF), MP and High ISO perfoemance is just a tad better.

    Your Planar 85 would even shine more on that camera.

    But don't get me wrong I did enjoy Olympus and Panasonic cameras for a long time.
    The new Olympus 45/1.8 lens is the only one I did not sell. Such a nice quality lens that I probably will buy an Olympus E-PL3 body or another tiny camera just to use it when they get a little cheaper.

    Michiel

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    Re: OMG!

    I'm following the development at Ricoh very closely, Michiel. I find the size and the ergonomics very attractive, and if they launch a body with built in viewfinder (and an M-mount unit with the 16MP sensor), it will be a difficult choice between Ricoh and Olympus.

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    Re: OMG!

    Pentax (owned by Ricoh now) is rumored to come up with a mirrorless version of their K5:

    http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/hot-...a-coming-soon/

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Pentax (owned by Ricoh now) is rumored to come up with a mirrorless version of their K5:

    http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/hot-...a-coming-soon/
    Just what we need; another potentially excellent camera to choose from...

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    Re: OMG!

    Yes - this is going to make life difficult.

    Keith

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Olympus are trying yet another curtain trick with

    [deleted]

    I am excited about the 16MP (most likely the Panasonic GH-2 sensor) cam. I have a choice between that or one more GH-2. Not too thrilled with the NEX-7.
    Not sure why you think it's the GH2 sensor. I bet it's a tweaked GX1 sensor. That's better than nothing though not the leap forward I would like to see. But depending on the price, not bad.

    - Raist

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by RichA View Post
    The NEX-7 has two major specs that dwarf the offering from Pan/Olympus.
    -24 megapixels with great image quality.
    -The best EVF going.
    While I really like what Sony did with the Nex-7 there are two issues:

    - lenses (and 24 megapixels are nothing without good lenses)
    - the EVF is not exactly the best going. It has the best resolution, not the best refresh particularly as things go dark.

    Sony will fix both issues in due time though. There are about two good Nex lenses afaik (the last two ones they did). One issue in general for the platform still exists though: lenses are too big, sort of negating the idea of a small body. I think if they can make small pancake good quality primes, then they got a win from my view.

    - Raist

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    Re: OMG!

    To be frank guys, why would this make the choice difficult (what Olympus is doing, what Pentax is doing?) What was the last camera you bought and how long ago? It isn't good enough?

    - Raist

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    To be frank guys, why would this make the choice difficult (what Olympus is doing, what Pentax is doing?) What was the last camera you bought and how long ago? It isn't good enough?

    - Raist
    Shhhhh.... it was two weeks ago, but I'm sure I can invent some more, urgent needs

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    Re: OMG!

    The rumor site is leaking continually:

    http://www.43rumors.com/

    - Camera has a classic OM design
    - It has a magnesium body
    - It is weathers sealed
    - weight 373 g (body only).
    - 16 megapixel sensor optimized for High Dynamic Range
    - 200 up to 25.600 ISO
    - Built-in electronic viewfinder 1.44 million dots (positioned in the center of the body liek the old OM optical viewfinders and same resolution as the external VF-2 viewfinder (Click here to see on Amazon).
    - 610.000 pixel OLED swivel 3 inch screen.
    - Five-axis image stabilizer in body.
    - FAST AF and 3D tracking
    - Comes in Balck or Silver.
    - Price: Around $1.100 in USA or 1.000 Euro in Europe.

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    Re: OMG!

    And the first image has been leaked...notice the thumb grip

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    Re: OMG!

    If it really continues to look like that leaked image, I am almost sure I will get one

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    Re: OMG!

    The Long Slow Strip-Tease Of Modern Marketing continues.

    ;-)

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    The Long Slow Strip-Tease Of Modern Marketing continues.

    ;-)
    as a user of an OM2 and 2 OM4s over several years I lust for this type of compact while same time highly capable "semi" pro camera

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    as a user of an OM2 and 2 OM4s over several years I lust for this type of compact while same time highly capable "semi" pro camera
    That's what the Ricoh GXR-M and Leica M9 give me: compact, highly capable, semi-pro cameras to work with.

    I had Olympus Pen F and OM system cameras in addition to the E-system and others. It's great to see Olympus moving forward with this, I expect it will be a delightful camera ... Hopefully as delightful as the E-1 and E-5 were, and as the OM-1, 2, 3 and 4 were before them. Olympus has always delivered excellent cameras and lenses at the higher-end semi-pro and pro grade level.

    I might not buy anything as I've pretty well got everything I need to do my photography, but I'm enthusiastically cheering Olympus on. We need diversity in the camera equipment market, not the obliterating dominance of just two camera manufacturers.

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    Re: OMG!

    I am afraid I am getting quite interested...

    Sigh

    The potential is definitely there.

    Doug

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    Re: OMG!



    Doug, More leaks are expected in a few hours.

    The central question about the sensor, for the first time could be- new! Not much is known as to what that "new" really means.

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    Re: OMG!

    The same rumor sites also suggested that the E-P3 had a new sensor designed by Olympus. Then the lingo changed to "tweaked", and finally, we learned that it was the same old sensor. I'd love to see a brand new sensor in this camera but expect (and wouldn't be disappointed by) the G3/GX1 sensor.

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post


    Doug, More leaks are expected in a few hours.

    The central question about the sensor, for the first time could be- new! Not much is known as to what that "new" really means.
    I guess I have to agree somewhat on the sensor, even though I was quite happy with the G2 and am even more satisfied with the GH2. For me, though, just sensor improvements alone won't seal the deal. It needs to move the bar towards a better shooting experience enough to pul me away from the GH2.

    You see it throughout these threads: "I loved the OM", or the Pentax or in my case, the Nikon FM2... And I constantly see people chasing this (the Fuji X100 and the new Fuji come to mind).

    For me, if this camera significantly moves the bar on:

    Image quality
    Manual focusing
    Ergonomics
    Getting out of the way of taking the picture the way I want to take a picture.
    Better yet, making it easy for me to work "my way"

    Then my interest goes up.

    And yes, it is funny how a simple picture showing metal dials and knobs peaks my interest .

    But, the hype is hype. We shall see. I certainly am in now way hurting with my GH2.

    Doug

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    And quiet remarkable high ISO performance compared to all M4/3 cameras, and that with so many more megapixels.
    I did not test bigger prints yet, but I will soon. I expect a lot from it.

    Michiel
    From DPReviews test of the NEX-7, with respect to noise performance in RAW:

    "The graphs confirm that the NEX-7's pixel-level noise is higher than the NEX-5N's, and indeed about the same as the GH2's."

    The NEX-7 benefits from having more pixels, but those pixels being quite close in size to those in the m43 16mp cameras, don't actually produce less noise.

    Henning

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by henningw View Post
    From DPReviews test of the NEX-7, with respect to noise performance in RAW:

    "The graphs confirm that the NEX-7's pixel-level noise is higher than the NEX-5N's, and indeed about the same as the GH2's."

    The NEX-7 benefits from having more pixels, but those pixels being quite close in size to those in the m43 16mp cameras, don't actually produce less noise.

    Henning
    From my actual use, one of my GH-2s (it has lost its AA filter) does better than the NEX-7 in terms of noise (ie., lower noise) and details.

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    From my actual use, one of my GH-2s (it has lost its AA filter) does better than the NEX-7 in terms of noise (ie., lower noise) and details.
    Hi Vivek - is that looking at 100% - or is it in a similar sized print? . . . or even a comparison between the NEX7 image and an upsized GH-2s image?

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: OMG!

    Similar sized prints. At 100% pixel level, NEX-7 shows recognizable noise even at ISO100. That had never been the case with the GH-2 at ISO160.

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    Re: OMG!

    Me? I only care about how the camera looks of course
    Here's another fake rendering. These guys are rather clever if you ask me.

    羮ͤ - ۤϤ⤦褽 - : ѥ OLYMPUS OM-DOM-D5ˡ꡼̿˱äĴ

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Similar sized prints. At 100% pixel level, NEX-7 shows recognizable noise even at ISO100. That had never been the case with the GH-2 at ISO160.
    I find this virtually impossible to believe for all shots given I have seen Nex-7 shots at ISO 100 with no discernible noise on screen, not sure how they would have noise on paper. Is it a particular kind of shot?

    - Raist

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    Re: OMG!

    Just random snaps that I normally do.

  42. #42
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    Re: OMG!

    I wonder what the UI on the new OMG will be like? If its like most Olympus cameras, I will not want it. I bought a E-P3 and its twice as hard as my Leica X1 to use.
    I want something small and simple to replace my 5D Mk II

  43. #43
    Senior Member Riley's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    The same rumor sites also suggested that the E-P3 had a new sensor designed by Olympus. Then the lingo changed to "tweaked", and finally, we learned that it was the same old sensor. I'd love to see a brand new sensor in this camera but expect (and wouldn't be disappointed by) the G3/GX1 sensor.
    I know someone else who got the same rumour about EP3
    but his came from Olympus...

  44. #44
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    Re: OMG!

    At the end of the day, a rumor is only a rumor. Olympus (if they are the source) can always distance themselves from such while hoping that the hype will boost their sales.

  45. #45
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    Really wish that Oly made it to a new sensor custom designed for them exclusively!

    Albeit - the last few years showed that they only got the mediocre old stuff from Panasonic.

    Cannot see how that would have changed - so best to expect is that they got a G3 (or similar) sensor, while Panasonic will move on to the next generations in their models.

    16MP would have already been doable in the E5 - and literally if the E5 would have got 16MP I would have stayed with that camera. But it was not meant to be.

  46. #46
    Member kwalsh's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Cannot see how that would have changed - so best to expect is that they got a G3 (or similar) sensor, while Panasonic will move on to the next generations in their models.
    I wouldn't be surprised to see both Olympus and Panasonic using the GX1/G3 sensor jointly for awhile. At the GH1 introduction in one of the interviews with Panasonic they brought up how important using a single sensor across both their and Olympus's product line was to reducing cost because their volumes are small compared to Canikony. The GH series are unusual and more expensive on account of their low production volume sensor (or so Panasonic says).

    So - if there is any truth to that - Olympus is almost certainly using the GX1/G3 sensor and we'll see it in both their and Panasonic's cameras for a bit.

    But of course, we won't know until the camera is released and tested!

    Ken

  47. #47
    Senior Member ggibson's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by kwalsh View Post
    Panasonic they brought up how important using a single sensor across both their and Olympus's product line was to reducing cost because their volumes are small compared to Canikony.
    Interesting observation, Ken. From all the rumors, it certainly seemed like the new Olympus camera was going to be using the 16MP G3/GX1 sensor. This is further confirmation in my mind.

    On one hand, it's disappointing that Panasonic's new sensor has a pretty minimal low-ISO dynamic range improvement. On the other though, Olympus has managed to extract some pretty impressive high-ISO performance with the last generation 12MP sensor. I'm eager to see how they do with this one.

  48. #48
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    Re: OMG!

    If Olympus can give the G3 sensor a similar treatment to what they did with the 12MP sensor in the E-5, it's good enough for me

  49. #49
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by ggibson View Post
    On one hand, it's disappointing that Panasonic's new sensor has a pretty minimal low-ISO dynamic range improvement.
    From the very little information available about the sensors it appears that the original 12MP sensor and the G3/GX1 sensor are using an "analog" sensor (as Panasonic has called them in a few interviews) meaning that the data coming off of the sensor chip itself is analog and is then digitized in a separate chip. Such a design often has higher read noise at lower ISOs (i.e. lower base ISO dynamic range) for a variety of technical reasons.

    The GH2 uses a "digital" sensor (again, Panasonic's term) which we interpret as meaning the data is digitized directly on the sensor chip. This typically allows you to keep low ISO read noise to a minimum. This is also the architecture that all the recent Sony sensors with really good base ISO dynamic range are using. These designs are relatively recent as integrating a good pixel design and a good digitizer design into the same semiconductor fabrication process is a bit tricky. But if you can pull it off there is a lot of benefit.

    I think most people expect the industry to move towards "digital" sensors exclusively. So perhaps the GH2 sensor or a derivative may become the new "mass produced" sensor for m43 and all the cameras will have improved base ISO DR. Who knows, maybe the OM-D will be using the GH2 sensor? It seems a pricey camera from the rumors so maybe it would work economically to include a pricier sensor?

    Well, before I drift off into even more rampant speculation I'll just wait for the announcement

    Ken

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    Re: OMG!

    This board is a little behind on the rumors.

    The latest bet is that the OM-D sensor is brand new technology, a back-lit sensor from Aptina.

    If correct, it would be revolutionary.

    Texsport
    Exacta VX,500;Leica M3;Voigtlander Bessa L;Olympus OM4, OM4T,35SP,E-M5;Nikkormat FTN;Nikon FG,F4,F5;Canon EF,T90,EOS A2,EOS3,SL1;Fujica 670/690G and BL;Pentacon Six TL;Rittreck 66;Warner 66;Norita 66; Widelux F7;H XPan;Noblex 150;Linhof 617.

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