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Thread: F0.95 really worth it?

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    F0.95 really worth it?

    Hi guys,

    I´ve seen some really amazing footage from the 17,5mm f0.95 but I keep wondering if it´s really worth it over the Panasonic 25mm 1.4 or the 20mm 1.7. What do you guys think? The 17,5mm costs around us$1300, which is double the 25mm and more than double the 20mm.

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    Member ErikTande's Avatar
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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    If you're getting a bunch of paid work where you need to shoot in the dark, then it's probably worth it.

    Otherwise, I'd go for the 25mm 1.4. The 20mm 1.7 is great as well.

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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    The reason for comparison with 20 and 25mm FL lenses isn't clear to me.

    Do you need a 17.5mm? Do you need a 0.95 lens?

    If the Olympus 17/2.8 is lacking then it is worth consideration.

    Also, among the C-V lenses (ie., compared to the 25/0.95), the price of this one has been falling quite steadily. Right now, the prices are ~ 1/3rd less than a month or so ago when it debuted.

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    Vivek, I´m looking for a fast prime for shooting video and photo and these are more or less similar FOVs (at least the 17,5mm and the 20mm). I won´t be able to boost the iso on the GH2 as much as I do on the NEX5-N, so I thought I could compensate with the extreme aperture.
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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    Vivek, I´m looking for a fast prime for shooting video and photo and these are more or less similar FOVs (at least the 17,5mm and the 20mm). I won´t be able to boost the iso on the GH2 as much as I do on the NEX5-N, so I thought I could compensate with the extreme aperture.
    I don't know, Rawfa. I find 17.5, 20 and 25 mm distinctly different FoV choices. Particularly between 17.5 and 25 mm, you're going from wide to normal.

    You're getting about an additional stop over the 25mm, and about a stop and a quarter over the 20mm, with the 17.5mm f/0.95. While useful in some circumstances, it comes with the price of very narrow focus zone.

    For me, I tend to prefer manual focusing. A fast wide and a fast normal (and a fast short tele) make a great kit for what I like to shoot. So the Voigtländer 17.5, 25, and 40 (the last with adapter) are a very nice trio lens kit for my needs on Micro-FourThirds. I wish I could get a 17mm lens lens like that for my E-1 that wasn't a heavy zoom lens.

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    In a different forum someone point out that the 17.5 is massively heavy and not very much well suited for extended hand held work...which happens to be my thing.
    FOV wise there is no doubt that my favorite is 35mm. If the Olympus 17mm was at least f1.8 I would have no doubts at all.

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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    The CV 17.5mm is also manual only... That will not be my preference for videos.
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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    In a different forum someone point out that the 17.5 is massively heavy and not very much well suited for extended hand held work...which happens to be my thing.
    FOV wise there is no doubt that my favorite is 35mm. If the Olympus 17mm was at least f1.8 I would have no doubts at all.
    It's a bit o a lump, for sure. I thought you knew that. :-)

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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    Compared to my Nikon D700 + 24-70 f/2.8 zoom, the OM-D + Grip + CV 17.5 f/.95 would not be that big a deal to hand-hold.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Senior Member mediumcool's Avatar
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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosermage View Post
    The CV 17.5mm is also manual only... That will not be my preference for videos.
    Some would take the opposite tack; manual focus and aperture can be adjusted on the lens during a shoot.
    Last edited by mediumcool; 27th June 2012 at 23:06. Reason: changed shot to shoot

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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    i have both the 25mm f0.95 and the 25mm f1.4...the 25mm f0.95 is a brick and the 17mm f0.95 is suppose to another 25% heavier. With my e-pl1, it is so unbalanced and uncomfortable to use, and then you must use the vf-2 as the screen doesn't have enough resolution to focus and of course it is hard to actually nail focus...so handling wise the 1.4 is better. however, i find the AF to be so unreliable in situations when i need to shoot at 1.4 that it is almost pointless
    iq wise, 25mm f1.4 is sharp and good but 25 mm f0.95 is SPECIAL (but there is a learning curve) especially shooting at night in available light
    the 20mm f1.7 (which i used to have) is almost as good as the 25mm f1.4 but is currently overpriced (my copy was bought at $330)
    it mostly comes down to your shooting style and needs :P i have the same problem as to which one to keep to fund for an om-d

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    Senior Member Tesselator's Avatar
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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    I love the feel of both lenses on my GH1 and GH2! Very nice handling, balance, and feel!
    I liked the IQ of the 25mm f/o.95 very much indeed! The 17.5mm f/o.95, not so much.
    In fact I thought the 17.5mm was quite bad. Especially from wide open to about 2.8.
    Both were extremely easy to use assuming you've ever used a MF lens before. Very easy to get exact focus - even without MF assist zoom!
    At about a grand a piece I could justify keeping the 25mm but not the 17.5 - which IMO is worth about $300 to maybe $500 absolute tops.

    I also agree with medium cool. Manual lenses are the tits for video. AF sucks nuggets. But only if you're serious about the video and going for cinematographic level results. If you're the type who just takes 5min to 30min shots all hand-held waving it from subject to subject with little or no post then yeah, it either doesn't matter or AF is preferable. Cinematographic level shooting is usually 10s to 2min "cuts only" working from an x-sheet - all on a tripod or a nice shoulder rig. In those cases MF rocks and a half - which seems to be the overwhelming consensus as well.

    Just my 2¢

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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    Not all 0.95 lenses are big and heavy. This one weighs about the same as my 20mm f1.7. I got lucky a few years back at $400.

    Schneider Xenon 25mm f0.95

    Pretty sharp as well

    Coffee and candlelight
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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    What mount is that ReeRay?
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    C-mount.

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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    See FUJINON 25mm 0.85 C mount | eBay

    Looks a good price

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    Senior Member Tesselator's Avatar
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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    Both also look as though they can't focus to infinity or anywhere out past about 5 meters.

    Can they?

    On top of that they both look like they will not cover the entire 4/3 frame and have to be used in 2x digital zoom mode or ETC if you have a GH2.

    You can pick these up in 4mm to about 25 mm in f/1.0 or f/0.9 for about $20 in junk-shops. I have a pile of them I paid $5 to $10 for including the CCTV camera. There's no need to pay very much for one of those.

    And after you get it I can almost promise you will be greatly disappointed if you're expecting consistently good photographs from it. Basically it will turn your camera into a low-rez limited-focus P&S sized sensor camera. So everything your cameras does well enough now, cut in half and you'll get the idea. 1080... No sorry. 740.. yeah ok maybe. 20" prints... No sorry... 10" prints... yeah, maybe. and so on.

    They are fun little toys when you can find them for nominal prices but they can't even come close to competing with something like the Voigtlander or the 20mm Lumix or even the 14-42mm cheapy Lumix /M.Zuiko ED - which both go for about $75 these days.

    And one last point: If the c-mount lens in question doesn't cover the entire sensor as most WA ones do not, then the effective focal length multiplier (AKA crop factor) will be greater than two. From my experience 18mm and above is about 2.5x and below 18mm or so is closer to 3x. And that's if you hand crop the image circle. Obviously if you use the ECT or 2x zoom then the effective crop factor is just a tad over 4x.



    .
    Last edited by Tesselator; 5th July 2012 at 11:16.

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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    The Schneider shown did indeed focus to infinity and you may be surprised to hear it outperformed my Nokton equivalent by a large margin. It is sharp wide open whereas the Nokton needed stopping down to f1.4 at least. But you're right in not covering the full frame at 4:3 ratio although the vignetting is insignificant in low light where I use the lens the most. Conversely, at 3:2 ratio the vignetting is significantly reduced and correctable in software.

    I can't speak for the Fujinon but as for the Schneider It sure ain't no toy believe me.

    _1090926

    Click on the image and see a 100% crop shown alongside at Flickr.

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    Senior Member Tesselator's Avatar
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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    Not bad! Those qualities (∞ OK, good IQ, near full coverage) are extremely rare in a C-Mount lens of 25mm and under.

    Do you have to stop down much to get infinity or does it achieve infinity wide open?



    ________
    Also to note is that many of them can be modified to work too. Not usually full coverage but infinity is sometimes achievable.

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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    Infinity is achieved from f1.2 onwards. This was shot at 4:3 and f1.2 and focused on the ukulele head. The vignetting is clear here also.


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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReeRay View Post
    I can't speak for the Fujinon but as for the Schneider It sure ain't no toy believe me.

    [
    Hello ReeRay

    I just registered to this forum to ask you a few question...

    There are very few information and samples from this lens on the interent.

    I'd like to buy one for filming video with my GH2.
    Do you have any experience concerning 16:9 mode and vignetting?

    I'm also wondering if one could fine down the filter thread a little bit to get less vignetting... Or do you know where the vignetting actually comes from?

    Cheers,
    Till

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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    In a different forum someone point out that the 17.5 is massively heavy and not very much well suited for extended hand held work...which happens to be my thing.
    FOV wise there is no doubt that my favorite is 35mm. If the Olympus 17mm was at least f1.8 I would have no doubts at all.
    Olympus offers a 18mm F2.8 pancake since they introduced the E-P1 in 2009. It is not a very good lens. But don't confuse it with the recently announced 17mm F1.8 which should be issued in a few months : it will be a lens of the same kind as the 12mm F2, with the same smart trick for MF and with distance scales.

    I'd wait for that lens : the 17mm F0.95 Voigtländer is has not received a raving review from Admiring Light : it is even heavier and bigger than the 25mm F0.95 and not as sharp. (fast wide lenses are more difficult to make).
    Personnally I think that at such wide aperture MF is too difficult to get right. I like MF when I can use zone focusing. But with shallow DOF and or the need to work quickly I prefer AF (but then, I can't trust my eyes anymore).

    Look here for a review : Review: Voigtländer Nokton 17.5mm f/0.95 @ Admiring Light

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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    I can't comment on filing down the filter thread but I can assure you that at 16:9 there is no vignetting.

    Hope this helps

    Ray

    Quote Originally Posted by rantanplan View Post
    Hello ReeRay

    I just registered to this forum to ask you a few question...

    There are very few information and samples from this lens on the interent.

    I'd like to buy one for filming video with my GH2.
    Do you have any experience concerning 16:9 mode and vignetting?

    I'm also wondering if one could fine down the filter thread a little bit to get less vignetting... Or do you know where the vignetting actually comes from?

    Cheers,
    Till

  24. #24
    rantanplan
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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReeRay View Post
    ... but I can assure you that at 16:9 there is no vignetting.
    This is very good news!

    Thanks a lot
    Till

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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    The only compact 0.95 lens that does not have any vignetting on the m4/3rds that I know of is the SOM Berthiot 25/0.95.

    Do not attempt to file down filter threads on any c-mount fast lenses with the hope that there will be less vignetting!

  26. #26
    rantanplan
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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Do not attempt to file down filter threads on any c-mount fast lenses with the hope that there will be less vignetting!
    Is this a dogma thing or did you try it?

    Vignetting gets more focused when the aperture is near closed, so i guess its not a question of the lens size... what we actually see in the corners is part of the housing e.g. the filter thread.

    Cheers,
    Till

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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    You are assuming/hoping that the lens would offer more illumination. By all means try it and find out for yourself if my suggestion (especially when dealing with c-mount lenses in the 25mm FL region) is correct or not.

    May be you will learn something from your experiment.

  28. #28
    rantanplan
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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    I could easily check this before i "destroy" the lens:

    Putting a light source (FT framed) in place of the chip behind the lens and then see if the beam touches the thread...

    Did you do any experiments or you just "know"? Please share your experiences...

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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    I'd wait for that lens : the 17mm F0.95 Voigtländer is has not received a raving review from Admiring Light : it is even heavier and bigger than the 25mm F0.95 and not as sharp. (fast wide lenses are more difficult to make). Look here for a review : Review: Voigtländer Nokton 17.5mm f/0.95 @ Admiring Light
    That's strange, I just read that review and came away thinking that, yes, this was a "raving review". It is peppered throughout with superlatives, and ends with the words "very highly recommended". I suppose there might be an "extremely highly recommended" category, too, but either way sounds pretty good to me ;-)

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    Re: F0.95 really worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by rantanplan View Post
    I could easily check this before i "destroy" the lens:

    Putting a light source (FT framed) in place of the chip behind the lens and then see if the beam touches the thread...

    Did you do any experiments or you just "know"? Please share your experiences...
    I might have posted on this a few years ago here...search.

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