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Thread: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

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    Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Well, not really!

    I just found an interesting website - I think that in most comparisons you only see 1/4 of the sensor, which makes the difference look bigger.

    There is a common feeling that APSc is much bigger than m4/3, but, when you look at it like this:

    Sensor Size Comparison


    It shows that it's not that much of a big deal (mind you, other APSc sensors are a little larger than the Canon one).

    If you think of this as equivalent print sizes for a given resolution, then one realises how small the difference really is.

    all the best

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Great comparison. The M4/3 does look much bigger than I commonly think of it.

    I love my OM-D but it sure is smaller than the one on your M9 or my 5D2. That's one of the reasons I keep the larger camera around.

    That and sometimes I need to look more like a photographer (grin) and a big SLR with a 70-200 does that. Unfortunately (for the 5D2) the big camera and lens is still in the closet and the OM-D has been out and about a lot lately.

    Jim

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Thanks for the link, Jono! I've seen some static comparisons but they only contain a few sensor sizes.

    How about this:

    Sensor Size Comparison

    I was never a great fan of the Pentax Q concept, but this shows how it's nearly in the iPhone class. On the other hand, even a 35mm FF sensor does not look so huge compared to a (crop) medium format one.

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    It's interesting that my newly departed GH-2 sensor was as "high" as the Canon APSC, though not quite as wide. With this sensor Panasonic is giving us square frame types a bit of a break. If they pushed a bit higher they would get to square format, which would still encapsulate the current m4/3 sensor size from Oly.
    I would love this to happen!

    Keith

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Yes, the 4:3 aspect ratio of m4/3 does make up a bit in sensor area wrt to APS-C's 3:2.

    I easily notice the difference in DOF between m4/3 and APS-C though. Its about a stop, about the same as the difference between APS-C and FF. Of course what is best depends what you want - small or large DOF.
    David Anderson

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Size only seems to matter when yours is smaller than mine...
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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    for a moment, I thought that Jono was on the wrong track

    I'm reassured ...

    Good night,
    Rafael
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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Jono,

    Nice try, but I still want an IQ160.

    That website doesn't have the S2, but it DOES have the Pentax 645D, which is almost the same size.

    --Matt
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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Comparing the area of the 'teeny' micro 4/3 to the APS-C, it's 224.9 square mm vs 366.6 square mm, so the APS-C is 163% of the size of the micro 4/3. To me this is substantial...whether this makes a practical difference is another discussion however
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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    A bit OT but I remember shooting with several generations of Canon APS-c bodies. I couldn't wait until I could own a FF. I was figuring I would have to be patient and buy a used--and then the 5D was announced and I pounced. I kept an APS-c for backup but never shot with it. I did try a Rebel down the road too when I was soon to give up commercial shooting and wanted a small body for travel and hiking. That was sort of the beginning of the end as I moved from it to try a Canon G body (I had had the original G1) and quickly passed it to my husband. Then the Panasonic G1 was announced and I tried skeptically. I carried both, then started leaving the DSLR home sometimes, then all the time and now with the EM5 I may divest myself of all Canon gear.

    It just seems ironic to me how much I wanted shut of an APS-c sensor and now accept a bit smaller sensor and talk about 'accepting compromises'

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Diane,

    The question is - is it really a compromise? I have shot with a 7D (borrowed) and used to own a 1DMk2 and I would take the IQ of the OM-D over them any day. Now my 5D2 is obviously better for some applications but even so it isn't seeing much use.

    Jim
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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Quote Originally Posted by JMaher View Post
    Diane,

    The question is - is it really a compromise? I have shot with a 7D (borrowed) and used to own a 1DMk2 and I would take the IQ of the OM-D over them any day. Now my 5D2 is obviously better for some applications but even so it isn't seeing much use.

    Jim
    Jim, I really don't feel its a compromise. I don't shoot sports so I don't need a DSLR to be truthful. I'm really enjoying shooting with the EM5 and I think I just have gotten past the whole sensor thing. I have not printed yet but I really do think I'll be happy with those too.

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Diane,

    I have not printed yet but plan to do a vacation book and maybe a canvas from my vacation. I'll see what the quality is like then but I really expect it to be very good.

    JIm

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Comparing the area of the 'teeny' micro 4/3 to the APS-C, it's 224.9 square mm vs 366.6 square mm, so the APS-C is 163% of the size of the micro 4/3. To me this is substantial...whether this makes a practical difference is another discussion however
    Based on its area, it gets roughly half a stop less light than canon APS-C and 2/3rd stop less than Sony APS-C. So given identical technology, you would expect Canon ASP-C to be about half a stop better and Sony to be about 2/3rd of a stop better. Its up to you to decide how significant that is. With Sony's superior sensor technology EM-5 seems to have offset the gap compared to Canon APS-C and seems a bit behind Sony APS-C. Pretty much what you would expect based on sensor size.

    In terms of DOF the difference is roughly 1.2x wrt to Canon and 1.3x wrt Sony. Again up to you to decide if that's significant. In my opinion it is way less significant than what people imagine. If you have 1ft of DOF with a NEX-5N, an equivalent canon shot would have just under 1.1ft, and m43 would have 1.3ft. Hardly as big a difference as people think.

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    >so the APS-C is 163% of the size of the micro 4/3

    Maybe a linear comparison is more realistic? 128% linear and the diff sounds less.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Working in the range from FourThirds to "Full Frame" cameras, I've not bothered to worry about sensor size very much at all. FourThirds and APS-C are so close as to be a toss up once I'm done cropping. The big advantage to FF is more focus zone control.

    Otherwise, eh? who cares? Take pictures, don't argue pixels.

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, not really!

    I just found an interesting website - I think that in most comparisons you only see 1/4 of the sensor, which makes the difference look bigger.

    There is a common feeling that APSc is much bigger than m4/3, but, when you look at it like this:

    Sensor Size Comparison


    It shows that it's not that much of a big deal (mind you, other APSc sensors are a little larger than the Canon one).

    If you think of this as equivalent print sizes for a given resolution, then one realises how small the difference really is.

    all the best
    The Canon EOS M is the world's first serious mirrorless camera.
    says



    There are also plenty of other nuggets there.

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    That'll stir things up for sure.

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss


    Ah! Trust Click Through Ken to come up with a headline like that.

    I haven't read it, because, although he sometimes says good things, reading his articles always seems to have a negative effect on my temper, and I don't need to get grumpy on a sunny afternoon!

    Uwe - of course linear is a better way to deal with it (at least as far as print size is concerned). Of course, if you tend to crop to 4:3 anyway, (and depending on your paper sizes that may be convenient), then it's only 114%.

    But hey - my point was really as a response to talking to various people who obviously thought of 43 as closer to compact cameras than to APS/c.

    Personally I think it makes a good companion to full frame.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    ...
    There are also plenty of other nuggets there.
    Like wow. It must be good to be clairvoyant so you can review a camera you have not even touched. I wonder if he even watched any youtube videos showing the slow as molasses focusing.

    Still I see a lot of posts about people pre-ordering this. They must be seeing something I don't.

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    I wonder why KR doesn't consider the OM-D E-M5 a pro level camera? Sensor size? Lens selection? Weather sealing? The fact that Olympus won't send him a freebie? Who knows?

    (BTW: This is post #2000 for me - )
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO
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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    If you think of this as equivalent print sizes for a given resolution, then one realises how small the difference really is.
    I'd have thought this was done to death, but then there's always the new people to the table.

    Personally I'm more interested in:
    • size of photosite (to minimise noise)
    • size of format to change bokeh and DoF


    from where I sit the difference to APS is negligible, the steps are more like doubling before you see substantial changes. So:
    • 4/3
    • 35mm
    • 645
    • 6x9
    • 4x5
    • 8x10

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    I'd have thought this was done to death, but then there's always the new people to the table.

    Personally I'm more interested in:
    • size of photosite (to minimise noise)
    • size of format to change bokeh and DoF


    from where I sit the difference to APS is negligible, the steps are more like doubling before you see substantial changes. So:
    • 4/3
    • 35mm
    • 645
    • 6x9
    • 4x5
    • 8x10
    Hi There
    I quite agree - on all counts except noise, which doesn't seem to me to be much of an issue these days - but it's worth re-iterating occasionally when you see the 4/3 is tiny messages appearing.

    It was mostly meant as a casual interest - I thought the sensor size site interesting and informative. I wasn't trying to start a bun-fight, and there doesn't seem to be one (good!).

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    The whole size thing matters very little for most (all?) amateur uses. I'd even argue for professional work it matters less and less, unless you are shooting food pictures for MacDonalds.

    LouisB

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Oh Ken huh? I treat what he says with a large bag of salt.
    The way his opinions shift is interesting, wasn't he a Nikon zealot a few years ago?

    Oh wow read the article, should have listened to you Jono.
    Anger levels rising, stress-related damage to inanimate objects likely
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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, not really!

    I just found an interesting website - I think that in most comparisons you only see 1/4 of the sensor, which makes the difference look bigger.

    There is a common feeling that APSc is much bigger than m4/3, but, when you look at it like this:

    all the best
    The only real jump is from APS to FF or larger. The only APS sensor that is better than the Olympus m4/3rds sensor is the one in the Fuji X-Pro1 and that has to do with design, not size. If Fuji releases a FF sensor, that'll be it for Nikon-Canon dominance in image quality.

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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Interesting and valid points.

    I am still using a newly acquired epm-1 rather than my E-410 or Nikon D100. After successfully and almost painlessly acquiring a grandchild, I gave my ep-1 to the mother of that child and have been getting visual proof of continued good health, but not as often as I would like!

    Trend is for semi-conductors to improve and we have no theoretical boundaries on that front as yet, so sensors will become more sensitive and pack more into less, at less cost. Micro4/3 is looking very mature as a system, for stills and video and is more than acceptable at the moment. We are also surrounded by 16:9 display devices with 4k planned for the next credit boom! Delayed 20 years, but some will buy anyway. In a few short years, I will be telling my daughter off about the length of her daughter's skirts and we will have amazing sensors, quad deckers, detecting maybe 800Mp at the flick of a damned small switch, annoying placed, allowing 16 bits of light pp and with all this there will still be arguments about this or that sensor!

    I wholeheartedly agree with Godfrey on this one.

    Lenses will be more important than ever, as that part of the process as a bottleneck will then be more apparent and the user, as always?

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    Senior Member Riley's Avatar
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    Re: Micro 4/3 have teeny sensors - discuss

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >so the APS-C is 163% of the size of the micro 4/3

    Maybe a linear comparison is more realistic? 128% linear and the diff sounds less.
    thats the case,
    whenever you square the result its bound to look a little stretched

    Then theres another way to look at it, the marketing arena which is how the habit of squaring became popular and Olympus should have woken up to this when the entered mFT, there is no differentiation between mFT and 43rds aka no real reason for 43rds to exist. They could have taken the sensor size out to 15x20mm for 300 sq mm which would put them so close to canon APSC that it all just goes away, 43rds would be given back some purpose. But they didnt.

    But then they made a lot of little mistakes there that make it difficult to engineer a merging of the two technologies mFT and 43rds. If the mounts were just a few mm closer in register that would have meant a pdAF adapter between the two would be possible, or if the micro mount were just a tiny bit narrower it could fit within the 43rds mount, and you could sleeve mFT lenses inside the 43rds mount. Stupid, hasty, negligent improperly thought out proposition and particularly unclever engineering has left 43rds marooned and disenfranchised a lot of people for no good reason. Just to be able to punch out a bunch of little boxes that look virtually the same while hungry 43rds users looked on. They might just as well have told us theyre out of the camera business b/se now theyre going to make lawnmowers and panama hats.

    for mFT the present size seems more ideal as it is the axis of all mirrorless formats
    I guess unless something cheaper than M9 rocks up in FF theyre pretty safe
    unless...
    Last edited by Riley; 29th July 2012 at 10:10. Reason: steam power is wonderful

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