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Thread: M4/3 to Leica

  1. #51
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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Vivek, You are killing me!!!!!! The bee photos are over the top.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Thanks, Cindy.

    No need for Visoflexes (a III could go for as much as a new G1 body!!)

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Here is an ultra wide test shot (lousy weather). Kinoptik 9.8mm f/1.8 @ f/4, 1/50s, ISO640.



    Yes, bokeh with an ultra-wide on a 0.5X crop sensor.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Wow. How close is the lens to the bike seat?

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Not the closest distance possible. It was at ~12cm.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    A couple of quick grabs.

    The first from the ultra-wide (9.8mm f/1.8 @ f/8, ~60cm from the dirty car)



    This one (B/W mode during the capture) using an ancient Hektor 135mm f/4.5 wide open, ISO1600, 1/200s. Nasty weather.


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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Vivek, Your weather is almost as bad as ours. I haven't seen the sun for 2 weeks. Nice work with your amazing lens collection. Are all of these lenses adapted for the M mount?

    Regards,
    Carl

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Hi Carl, The Kinoptik 9.8mm lens is an adapted lens (LTM and then an M adapter).

    The 135mm f/4.5 Hektor is a straight M mount lens (RF coupling and all). I always wondered why they put a nice tripod mount on that tiny lens. It would come in very handy especially when used on the G1. The sample shot here was hand-held (not good, not fast enough shutter speed).

    It is very windy and wet snow here. No trace of the Sun at all.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Vivek, regarding focusing of these M mount lenses, does the G1 automatically zoom the view or is that only with manual focus on the Panasonic lenses?

    If it is manual, how does one do the zooming in?

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Monza,

    I don't understand the first part. I have not been using the kit zoom. All the samples shown here were using manual focus lenses.

    I tried to make some shots to illustrate what I thought were your questions but I felt that is pointless.

    If you have the camera, it will be easier to walk you through it. It is simple
    (hey, even I could do it from day 1!!).

    The shots through a Canon 50/0.95, wide open, should tell you something about focus accuracy, ease of focusing and the like. Equally illustrative would be the wide open shot of a fast moving person in a mini blizzard through a 135mm Hektor (the longest focal length lens from an M system).

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    OK, let me reword.

    I understand that the LCD zooms in, when using the Panasonic kit lens in manual focus mode, and this zooming is automatic.

    When you have a Canon 50/0.95 on the camera, and turn the focus on the lens, the camera doesn't know you are focusing, so it can't zoom the LCD image automatically. So, how do you zoom in manually?

    I have seen the photos, and having used fast lenses on M Leicas including the M8, where focus accuracy is spotty, I'm pretty amazed...thanks for posting those images.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    OK, there is a little button on the back (don't know what it is called). You press that and a small yellow rectangle shows in the frame. You press another button and that rectangle is magnified (~100% crop? something like that) you can move that little yellow rectangle all over the frame to choose the area of your interest/focus. In addition to this after enlarging the little yellow rectangle, if you use the thumbwheel in the camera in one direction, it magnifies it further (~200% crop?).

    Since you can choose an area in the frame and all these things, you do not have to focus and reframe. You do not need to move the camera and lose any focus (as in a rangefinder and a fast lens).

    So, focus accuracy is better than it has ever been with any system.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    I don't like that auto zoom feature when the lens is turned, so I turned it off. When I am ready for critical focus, I press the left arrow on the multi-selector. A yellow rectangle appears and can be moved with the arrow buttons. When it is precisely positioned, I press the menu/set button in the middle of the multi-selector and the G1 zooms in. Fine focus can now be achieved. As Vivek said above, you can use the thumbwheel while zoomed in for even greater magnification. A half-press of the shutter zooms it back out for final confirmation and then a full press finishes the shot. The M, R, etc. lenses should work the same way.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Thanks Cindy for the technical terms of the buttons and the further explanation.

    Since these little buttons are clustered together, unless you have eyes that will pop out like some alien creature, you can not use the eye level view finder (is that what that is called?) and use the buttons effectively.

    This is why the waist level focusing and the swivel TFT (or LCD as Panasonic says) screen are very important and useful.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    OK thanks Cindy and Vivek.

    Oddly enough, my G1 showed up courtesy of the UPS truck, so now I can try all this out.

    (BTW, Cindy I bought a Dimage scanner from you a while back off RFF...still working great.)

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Thanks Cindy for the technical terms of the buttons and the further explanation.

    Since these little buttons are clustered together, unless you have eyes that will pop out like some alien creature, you can not use the eye level view finder (is that what that is called?) and use the buttons effectively.

    This is why the waist level focusing and the swivel TFT (or LCD as Panasonic says) screen are very important and useful.

    Vivek, That is exactly right. For the most critical focus, you must use the LCD, not the viewfinder if you are going to use the method I use.
    I use the viewfinder a lot of time and can achieve good focus, but for the most precision, then it is the LCD.
    The only problem that I have using the LCD, is that I can't brace the camera (to myself) like I do when I use the viewfinder. Do you have any hints to supporting the shot?...or are you just super steady? Your shots with the M lenses have sure been stellar.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    OK thanks Cindy and Vivek.

    Oddly enough, my G1 showed up courtesy of the UPS truck, so now I can try all this out.

    (BTW, Cindy I bought a Dimage scanner from you a while back off RFF...still working great.)
    Monza, Congratulations on the new G1. Now you can join in on the picture thread! (And yes, I remember you from RFF and the Dimage.)

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    .....
    The shots through a Canon 50/0.95, wide open, should tell you something about focus accuracy, ease of focusing and the like. Equally illustrative would be the wide open shot of a fast moving person in a mini blizzard through a 135mm Hektor (the longest focal length lens from an M system).
    Indeed, Vivek, they are impressive. I have the camera, with just the kit lens, and had planned to get the 20/1.7 pancake as soon as it comes.

    Also, I´m on Stephen Gandy´s waiting list for the M adapter. I had planned to use the adapter mainly with my 50 and 90, for portraits & c, but the ease of manual focussing makes me wonder if I´ll really need that pancake after all, or if I should start looking for old gems like you have (at present I own nothing shorter than a Summicron 35, not short enough).

    An absolutely remarkable camera! How Leica could pass on making a red dot version of it is beyond me...

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Per Ofverbeck View Post
    An absolutely remarkable camera! How Leica could pass on making a red dot version of it is beyond me...
    Hi Per
    It's completely bizarre isn't it . . . the first Panasonic camera which comes along which REALLY suits what they do . . . . . and they turn it down


    Maybe something will appear later . . .

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    Vivek, That is exactly right. For the most critical focus, you must use the LCD, not the viewfinder if you are going to use the method I use.
    I use the viewfinder a lot of time and can achieve good focus, but for the most precision, then it is the LCD.
    The only problem that I have using the LCD, is that I can't brace the camera (to myself) like I do when I use the viewfinder. Do you have any hints to supporting the shot?...or are you just super steady? Your shots with the M lenses have sure been stellar.
    Hi Cindy, I don't understand? what's the problem using the viewfinder for manual focusing? it's fiddly, but you can certainly locate the left arrow / OK buttons with the thumb of your right hand...

    I prefer to shoot this way, it's more steady having the camera to your eye and there's no problem with glare.

    Kind Regards

    Brian

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Cindy, My hand, it appears, is ergonomically suited to handle this cam with the LCD screen. The body rests in the mid palm and the wrist. The LCD screen going over the wrist (almost like cradling a new born baby while bathing it) while the thumb and two fingers(index, middle) used for focusing the lens. The right hand holds the grip, fingers used for the buttons (multiselector, shutter release).

    Yup, I do not use the eye level finder at all.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Per, The 135mm focal length ( I have an Elmar and a Hektor, both can be found for very cheap prices) is very useful on this camera (when there is light!).

    The 135/4.5 is a pain to use on a Leica camera. You need a separate view finder to frame and use the RF focus (hence the tripod mount).

    That is a worthwhile lens to get (especially if it is a bargain).

    Yes, I am looking forward to the 20/1.7 as well. I am also hoping that Olympus will weave their magic.

    I also have ~10 lenses () from another system that I am currently trying to adapt (ie making an adapter).

    Remarkable camera it is! I have to locate my thesaurus to find a list of adequate superlative words.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Hi Cindy, I don't understand? what's the problem using the viewfinder for manual focusing? it's fiddly, but you can certainly locate the left arrow / OK buttons with the thumb of your right hand...

    I prefer to shoot this way, it's more steady having the camera to your eye and there's no problem with glare.

    Kind Regards

    Brian
    I do use the viewfinder for regular manual focusing. I'm used to manual focusing for many years and don't use AF that often even on my E3. It is just that for very critical focusing (like macro), it works better for me to use the lcd to really get fine adjustment.
    Now, Stephen Gandy, please bring on that M converter--soon!

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Cindy, My hand, it appears, is ergonomically suited to handle this cam with the LCD screen. The body rests in the mid palm and the wrist. The LCD screen going over the wrist (almost like cradling a new born baby while bathing it) while the thumb and two fingers(index, middle) used for focusing the lens. The right hand holds the grip, fingers used for the buttons (multiselector, shutter release).

    Yup, I do not use the eye level finder at all.
    Vivek, Thanks for explaining your technique. It is fantastic. I am able to steady it much more with my hands braced at my waist. It also makes it easier to work the buttons with the right hand. (One caveat to anyone trying this, turn off LVF/LCD auto, or it blacks out the LCD when it gets close to your body.)

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Per
    It's completely bizarre isn't it . . . the first Panasonic camera which comes along which REALLY suits what they do . . . . . and they turn it down


    Maybe something will appear later . . .
    Yes, I hope so.... (My credit card will be less happy). The G1 has "dual personalities", with stupid scene modes and iA mixed up with an extremely versatile and competent system camera (as yet without a system...). A m4/3 Leica might be less schizophrenic, with a cleaner user interface.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Per, The 135mm focal length ( I have an Elmar and a Hektor, both can be found for very cheap prices) is very useful on this camera (when there is light!).
    ...
    Sigh.... I sold one (with short & long mounts, a Visoflex I, and a bellows), for a pittance last year, since I saw no chance of ever using it again...

    Also the incredible Apo Macro Elmarit R 2.8/100, complete with the special Elpro; not for a pittance, but nevertheless....

    Never, ever sell Leica gear!!!!

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Per Ofverbeck View Post
    Yes, I hope so.... (My credit card will be less happy). The G1 has "dual personalities", with stupid scene modes and iA mixed up with an extremely versatile and competent system camera (as yet without a system...). A m4/3 Leica might be less schizophrenic, with a cleaner user interface.



    Sigh.... I sold one (with short & long mounts, a Visoflex I, and a bellows), for a pittance last year, since I saw no chance of ever using it again...

    Also the incredible Apo Macro Elmarit R 2.8/100, complete with the special Elpro; not for a pittance, but nevertheless....

    Never, ever sell Leica gear!!!!
    Per, Right on with the "dual personality" of the G1. Good example is the useless Film Mode button. However, I am very thankful for the many other innovative features that this camera offers. I guess Leica put all of their chips on the high end of the market with the S2. If the G1 and future m4/3 models targeted more towards advanced amateurs take off then Leica may have cause to worry about M8x sales taking a hit. Think we will see some nice little Zeiss or CV m4/3 format lenses?

    Regards,
    Carl

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Per Ofverbeck View Post
    Yes, I hope so.... (My credit card will be less happy). The G1 has "dual personalities", with stupid scene modes and iA mixed up with an extremely versatile and competent system camera (as yet without a system...). A m4/3 Leica might be less schizophrenic, with a cleaner user interface.
    I don't have any problems with the G1's personality. And a firm no thanks to any Leica m4/3. I love the plastic (G1). The cheaper the better.

    Frankly, I do not think Leica have a fleeting chance to compete. The M4/3 is light years (as implemented in the very first camera, even) ahead of their camera making technology. Perhaps they can come up with some M4/3rd D lenses. Useful for everyone.

    Sigh.... I sold one (with short & long mounts, a Visoflex I, and a bellows), for a pittance last year, since I saw no chance of ever using it again...
    You can find them again for a pittance now.

    Also the incredible Apo Macro Elmarit R 2.8/100, complete with the special Elpro; not for a pittance, but nevertheless....

    Never, ever sell Leica gear!!!!
    That Elpro is something special. I understand what you think.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    ....
    Frankly, I do not think Leica have a fleeting chance to compete. The M4/3 is light years (as implemented in the very first camera, even) ahead of their camera making technology.
    Well, I don´t think of Leica as necessarily being at the cutting edge of technology to prove their unique value. Why is the first choice of accessory for our new G1:s the M adapter? One of the first lenses *I* will mount on it when I get it is an uncoated, 1936 vintage Summar 50/2, to try some dreamy portraits. And you´re using an old Hektor 135....

    That said, I do see the point in good but inexpensive plastic cameras instead of heirlooms as working tools.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    You can find them again for a pittance now.
    Yes, there´s that. Would have been fun, however, to mount that Visoflex 1 on the G1. Would confuse everybody mightily (myself included...). Just kiddin´...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    That Elpro is something special. I understand what you think.
    Not only the Elpro. The lens itself was/is absolutely incredible. While it probably wouldn´t have balanced well on the tiny G1 (it was biggish even on my R6; better on a SL), macro shots with it would have been marvellous...

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Well, I don´t think of Leica as necessarily being at the cutting edge of technology to prove their unique value. Why is the first choice of accessory for our new G1:s the M adapter? One of the first lenses *I* will mount on it when I get it is an uncoated, 1936 vintage Summar 50/2, to try some dreamy portraits. And you´re using an old Hektor 135....
    In fact, my first adapter was not an M adapter!

    Anyway, yes, that is the problem for Leica. There are way too many old lenses still kicking around and functioning well!

    Sigma, for example, does not have that problem at all!

    It is a different case when it comes to cameras in the digital era.

    I just found few old Leitz accessories I had. I was surprised to discover that an unknown Xenon 50/2 (I always thought it was not a very useful lens!) fits nicely in an OUAGO (straight fit!). What a stunner this one is!
    (I will take this out for a spin tomorrow).

    It is this sort discoveries that is possible with this 20mm camera registry with live view and makes it very exciting!

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Thanks Cindy for the technical terms of the buttons and the further explanation.

    Since these little buttons are clustered together, unless you have eyes that will pop out like some alien creature, you can not use the eye level view finder (is that what that is called?) and use the buttons effectively.
    .
    Hi Vivek
    of course, being a computer programmer I DO have eyes like some alien creature which will pop out, and so I find it quite easy to press the buttons with my eye to the viewfinder.

    I got my adaptor today, and have been fiddling about with the 50mm macro (manual focus) and the 9-18 - which focuses very well automatically.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Hi Jono,

    Glad to hear that it works for you. Are you running online fora as well (that comment on this site wasn't directed against anyone, it was just a general observation and true too! )?

    Glad you can add some versatility to your new system.

    I will show some useful (at least they are to me) Leitz accessories that are useful with G1 (via an M adapter) a bit later if anyone is interested.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Hi Jono,

    Glad to hear that it works for you. Are you running online fora as well (that comment on this site wasn't directed against anyone, it was just a general observation and true too! )?

    Glad you can add some versatility to your new system.

    I will show some useful (at least they are to me) Leitz accessories that are useful with G1 (via an M adapter) a bit later if anyone is interested.
    Hi Vivek
    Well, I don't really think of myself as a programmer - developer maybe? Parasite on the edge of the software industry? My geek credentials are actually pretty low (and getting lower by the day).

    As for online fora . . .no, but we are setting one up for the business; it will be fabulously boring!

    I will be fascinated by your Leitz accessories!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Vivek
    ...snip...
    I will be fascinated by your Leitz accessories!
    Me too!

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Vivek, I'll say me three.

    Can't wait to put my Nokton 40/1.4 on this thing. I actually held it up to the G1 without a mount and took a few shots. It was kind of a dreamy look, heh. In the meantime I'm going to get the 4/3 to m4/3 adapter, and a Nikon F-->4/3 adapter, so I can use all my Nikkors, especially my 55 Micro. The manual focus/ articulated live view is perfect for macro shots, nothing beats it, and 110mm equivalent gives some nice working room.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Ok, I need a life... I just couldn't wait till I get ahold of the M adapter. This is my first M photo. It is totally unworthy except for the fact that it was made with my old Leica Summarit f/1.5 (a couple of stops down). I held it in front of the G1 because I am not talented like my hero, Vivek.

    I sure hope Santa brings me that adapter...please, Stephen Gandy.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Cindy,
    Our letters to santa were both addressed to the same place. Mr Gandy. It is getting exciting that's for sure!

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    yehh...eye couLdn't resist...M summiLux 35mmmmm @ f/1.4 / Panasonic G1...Lens cap-body cap...bLack tap adapt'r this is going t' be fun...

  38. #88
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    Re: M4/3 to Leica



    Intrepid group we are.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Cindy, I bet you your Summarex is no lemon! Prices have shot through the roof on this lens already!! The contrast will get a big boost when you use it with the proper adapter.

    Jan, Welcome. Yeah, why not? I still have my body cap intact. It is not a bad construction but I would not trust it with my Canon 50/0.95.

    I still have to get a few details of the old accessories I have before I put them here. Some (may be very few) die hard Leica nuts would know if something is wrong or not but I do not want to mislead anyone. Soon.

    Today started out cold and sunny. I had an Elmar 90/4 on the G1.



    Later, in the evening, it was time to check out the newly discovered Schneider Xenon 50/2 that screws directly into a Leitz OUAGO (I will post a picture later). All these shots were taken with it (f/2), ISO400~640, low shutter speeds (~1/15s to 1/20s).

    The spectators..




    (this man was confused to see a tiny gadget with a LCD screen like the one on his Sonycam!)




    .. and the Performer (it was sweet).


    I did find a B+W push on hood for the Xenon 50/2 but did not have it on for these shots. It is quite flare resistant. I suspect (because of its screw thread dimensions and the performance, it is one of the original Schneiders made for an LTM lens. I have no clue where/when I got it!)
    Last edited by Vivek; 7th December 2008 at 12:58.

  40. #90
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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    As a non-rangefinder person--I'd appreciate someone pointing me to a good site (or even a good book) to understand these lens names--Sumicron, Nokton, etc. I've been googling for each one but still haven't figured out if there's a quality (ala L lenses/Canon) or what. I do understand that the Nokton is Voigtlander, Sumicron Leica (Leitz??? LOL)--but why are names attached rather than just FL/maximum aperture (as 50 f/1.4)? Until I understand this I won't be able to understand exactly what is possible.

    Diane

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    As a non-rangefinder person--I'd appreciate someone pointing me to a good site (or even a good book) to understand these lens names--Sumicron, Nokton, etc. I've been googling for each one but still haven't figured out if there's a quality (ala L lenses/Canon) or what. I do understand that the Nokton is Voigtlander, Sumicron Leica (Leitz??? LOL)--but why are names attached rather than just FL/maximum aperture (as 50 f/1.4)? Until I understand this I won't be able to understand exactly what is possible.

    Diane
    Buy some books (better than google)!

    I will throw in these that are closeby:

    ISBN 1 874707 05 7

    ISBN 0-906447-88-7

    ISBN 1 874707 34 0

    I was enquiring about a Zuiko lens (from the early 1970s) the other day and the sales kid tells me that they only have lenses for the 4/3rds.

  42. #92
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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    diane

    yes the leica fans do love their insider talk :-- I know i live with one :-)

    In very broad terms cameras from Leitz are called Leicas

    the lenses.. of which there are many some of which are idolized by the Leica lovers are commonly known by their pet names summilux, summarit etc... actually at least one - Hektor - is a pet name

    anyway regardless of focal length in the Leica world

    Noctilux means f1 or less
    Summilux is f1.4
    Summicron is f2
    Summarit is f2.5
    elmar/elmarit is f2.8
    http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Leica_M_lenses

    there are variations.. i will leave you to look up Hektor

    cheers
    Kevin

  43. #93
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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    According to a post in the following RFF thread the Novoflex adapter will be available starting tomorrow:
    http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...711#post947711

  44. #94
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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    diane

    yes the leica fans do love their insider talk :-- I know i live with one :-)

    In very broad terms cameras from Leitz are called Leicas

    the lenses.. of which there are many some of which are idolized by the Leica lovers are commonly known by their pet names summilux, summarit etc... actually at least one - Hektor - is a pet name

    SNIP

    Kevin
    Kevin, you don't know how much that helped LOL. I would not have figured that out I don't think. I'll try a book too--and laughed at vivek's comment about the salesperson saying that there are lenses now only for the 4/3rds LOL.

    Diane

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    diane

    glad to help...

    K

  46. #96
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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Kevin, you don't know how much that helped LOL. I would not have figured that out I don't think. I'll try a book too--and laughed at vivek's comment about the salesperson saying that there are lenses now only for the 4/3rds LOL.

    Diane
    HI Diane
    This is a dealer in the UK
    http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/
    if you look under
    35mm
    then
    Zeiss
    Leica
    Voigtlander

    and look at M mount lenses, then it should give you an idea as to what's what.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Diane,
    Stephen Gandy has a lot of information on his cameraquest.com web site. It is a good place to start.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Monza, Gorgeous photo! Please tell me more about the angeniex-1. I looked through your flickr and see many beautiful G1 shots with unusual lenses.



  50. #100
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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Cindy, I *wish* those were my lenses and photos. The owner of the flickr set made his own c-mount adapter (movie camera lenses.)

    The ebay link is to a lens he's offering for sale...a 25mm f/0.95 for $749...

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tachar/
    Last edited by monza; 7th December 2008 at 20:03.

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