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Thread: M4/3 to Leica

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Monza, Sorry, I thought they were your lenses. Thanks for bringing them to our attention. We have so much to explore and learn about the possibilities for the G1.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Monza, Cindy: That is from Wolfgang Rabe. He offers the Leica LTM to Arriflex adapter (far more useful).

    My Kinoptik 9.8mm lens has his adapter and so does another member's here who bought those after trying my lens on his M8.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Somehow I thought you might be acquainted.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    The G1 is now starting to look interesting to me if they would just lose the baby dSLR look. Maybe the Oly will be better in that regard. But being able to to use 16mm Cine lenses opens up some interesting things.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    I'm trying to imagine the screams of outrage if the Oly doesn't have the manual focus assist. I'm planning on getting one after the 7-14mm comes out (depending on reviews) but for the first time I'm interested in some of the old lenses after following this thread.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    The G1 is now starting to look interesting to me if they would just lose the baby dSLR look. Maybe the Oly will be better in that regard. But being able to to use 16mm Cine lenses opens up some interesting things.
    There are restrictions while considering 16mm lenses. Not all would cover the entire frame. I have a c-mount 4.9mm f/1.9 lens, for example. A tiny circle is projected.

    But more importantly, there are 16mm lenses made for non-reflex cameras. These would hit the shutter in G1 (which is very close to the mount, BTW)!

    Caution!

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    We are going to have to be careful. My Leitz 21 f/3.4 super angulon will not work (I have read). What a pity. It is not fast, but has a wonderful signature on the M8. The flange on the SA is too deep.

    Vivek, keep this information coming. I really appreciate your cutting-edge knowledge and the fact that you share it with us.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Yes, a few lenses with extended rear elements (or collapsibles) will be problematic. An M body shutter chamber has quite a bit more room than the G1 and the M adapter probably is not deep enough to provide enough room.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Yes, a few lenses with extended rear elements (or collapsibles) will be problematic. An M body shutter chamber has quite a bit more room than the G1 and the M adapter probably is not deep enough to provide enough room.
    Any problem with collaspibles can be fixed with dymo tape just like you do for the M5.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    The G1 is now starting to look interesting to me if they would just lose the baby dSLR look. Maybe the Oly will be better in that regard. But being able to to use 16mm Cine lenses opens up some interesting things.
    John,
    Be careful for what you wish for. The G1 is quite small and I don't think a smaller or not dslr type body would be overly helpful on being able to get a grip, manually focus and to the things you need to do to. While comparing it to film sized cameras of the past may be interesting we do have a number of critical buttons/dials for digitall that aren't the same. The G1 is smaller in some respects than the M8.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Per Ofverbeck View Post
    An absolutely remarkable camera! How Leica could pass on making a red dot version of it is beyond me...
    Any reason why Leica wouldn't / couldn't make a genuine M mount camera with this very same EVF technology maybe in cooperation with Panasonic, and why not even with a larger sensor while we are at it ... ?

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    Any reason why Leica wouldn't / couldn't make a genuine M mount camera with this very same EVF technology maybe in cooperation with Panasonic, and why not even with a larger sensor while we are at it ... ?
    Well, that would be even better, of course.

    Only, it would involve a lot of design work, tooling & c, and that might be too much for Leitz after their S2 (and ongoing R10), esp. since the price point would be a lot lower.

    Putting a red dot on a Panasonic with just some firmware tweaks would be far cheaper; I think Leitz has done so a few times before....

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    John,
    Be careful for what you wish for. The G1 is quite small and I don't think a smaller or not dslr type body would be overly helpful on being able to get a grip, manually focus and to the things you need to do to. While comparing it to film sized cameras of the past may be interesting we do have a number of critical buttons/dials for digitall that aren't the same. The G1 is smaller in some respects than the M8.
    I dream of the Olympus Pen look. Lose the pop-up flash and for grip a easily griped finish, like vulcanite and maybe analog like controls a'la RD-1 with a pivotable LCD so it can be out of sight.

    I had hoped Olympus would deliver something like that but from the mock up at Photokina, they aren't even on the paper.
    Last edited by johnastovall; 8th December 2008 at 12:47.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    Any reason why Leica wouldn't / couldn't make a genuine M mount camera with this very same EVF technology maybe in cooperation with Panasonic, and why not even with a larger sensor while we are at it ... ?

    Priced at 16,000 Euros?!

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    I dream of the Olympus Pen look. Lose the pop-up flash and for grip a easily griped finish, like vulcanite and maybe analog like controls a'la RD-1 with a pivotable LCD so it can be out of sight.

    I had hoped Olympus would deliver something like that but from the mock up at Photokina, they aren't even on the paper.

    John, Don't rule out Olympus. Even without a camera, they are already there. Yes, I am also looking forward to the Olympus offerings.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    Any reason why Leica wouldn't / couldn't make a genuine M mount camera with this very same EVF technology maybe in cooperation with Panasonic, and why not even with a larger sensor while we are at it ... ?
    Hi Steen
    I think there are lots of reasons.
    However - I would have thought they could easily have Panasonic make a micro 4:3 camera like this - only looking more like a CL, with an optical 'rangefinder' having zooming frame lines and focus confirmation in an LCD overlay . . . as it isn't really a rangefinder, you could have a asecond hole for the EVF.

    I hear what you say about the larger sensor . . . but if they did that you wouldn't be able to:
    1. use small cheap autofocus IS zoom lenses made by Olympus / Panasonic
    2. have video
    3. Use the electronic stuff that Panasonic and Olympus have already developed.

    Still, it's all theoretical - as I understand it Leica have already said they'll have nothing to do with m4:3 . . . which is sad, as it's the first Panasonic development which they could really make use of to create the missing CL.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    . . . as it isn't really a rangefinder, you could have a second hole for the EVF.
    ...
    Thatīs it! A digital III G!

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Per Ofverbeck View Post
    Thatīs it! A digital III G!

    Exactly, but one with a large bright optical, and a large bright EVF!

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Before going into the ancient Leitz items, let me just add this quick note on the mini table-top tripod # 14320 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...u=30571&is=REG).

    This is a Digilux tripod. The G1 on its own is quite light and with small prime lenses, this is stable. Being light weight and well designed, it is superb!

    I am going to leave my older table top tripods and go with this one.
    Last edited by Vivek; 8th December 2008 at 15:19.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Maybe I missed it, but anyone tried R lens on the G1? Any samples?

    I am selling my L1 @ my local dealer. I will be getting a G1 after the L1 is sold. I really want to use my R lens with adaptors on the G1. I have the R to 4/3 adaptor and I guess I may need to get the 4/3 to M4/3 adaptor. & if they have the R to M4/3 that would be great... then I can sell my R to 4/3 adaptor too

    Thx
    Robert.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    I have.

    I have a self modified 50/2 Summicron-R in Nikon F mount. I can mount this on the G1 via- a Novoflex LEINIK, M to LTM, M4/3rd to Leica M adapter.

    This thing heavy. Not particularly a desirable thing to use (for me that is).

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Thx Vivek.. I can imagine the weight. It would be wild to mount the R80 lux or R280/4 or R400/6.8 on the small G1 to see what we can get. Most likely some amazing shots.

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    Zeiss Hologon 16mm/f8 and M mount/G1?

    Does anyone know if the Zeiss Hologon 16mm f8 (fitted with standard m mount) will work with the Leica M mount adapter and G1? Apparently it protrudes more deeply than most lenses into the camera body.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Vivek, maybe you have answered this already, but is there a C-mount to G1 adapter available, or are you just saying a C-mount lens would be easy to mount to a G1 ?

    If there is an adapter for C-mount lenses, could you point me to it.....thanks.

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    Re: Zeiss Hologon 16mm/f8 and M mount/G1?

    Quote Originally Posted by rweissman View Post
    Does anyone know if the Zeiss Hologon 16mm f8 (fitted with standard m mount) will work with the Leica M mount adapter and G1? Apparently it protrudes more deeply than most lenses into the camera body.
    I've got one of these guys. The lens projects 22mm from the m mount flange into the body. If it works with the G1 that by itself is reason for me to buy the camera (I've got an adapter on order from Steve Gandy). Someone who has the G1 and adapter can measure it to see if it works. If it does the rear element of the lens will be very close to the sensor causing color shift at the edges (on the M8 it's blue on one side and green on the other).

    A truly sensational lens on the M8. This is gratuitous but here are samples from Tulum and Guadalajara:

    Attachment 9913

    Attachment 9914

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    Re: Zeiss Hologon 16mm/f8 and M mount/G1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    ...If it does the rear element of the lens will be very close to the sensor....
    Careful, Woody!!!

    Thereīs a shutter in there as well, and it is normally open, so you canīt see it.

    It is MUCH closer to the mount than is the sensor itself - and anything obstructing it will make a paperweight of that camera at first release...

    My guess is, that lens is out....

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Seascape View Post
    Vivek, maybe you have answered this already, but is there a C-mount to G1 adapter available, or are you just saying a C-mount lens would be easy to mount to a G1 ?

    If there is an adapter for C-mount lenses, could you point me to it.....thanks.

    Seascape, Wolfgang Rabe (there is flickr link posted by Monza in this thread) would be making some M4/3rds to C-mount adapters soon and they will be available from him. He is also found on eBay.de. He knows more about c-mount lenses than I.

    As I mentioned, I did try a 4.9mm lens and it does not cover the whole sensor.

    I also (have) and tried a 200mm f/6.3 lens in C-mount. Same story.

    As I said earlier, and Per says it here, the shutter is close to the mount. So any lens that would protrude into the M4/3rds body (perhaps there is a 2-3mm allowance) is generally out of consideration.

    Those who have the G1, can check where the shutter is by firing the camera at bulb setting without a lens. This would convince you.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    If it does the rear element of the lens will be very close to the sensor causing color shift at the edges (on the M8 it's blue on one side and green on the other).
    Woody, I am afraid that you have to stick with the M8 for those psychedelic special effects.

    The G1, for starters, has no UV or IR sensitivity (a shame, really. I could have used that for UV and IR captures) like the Epson R-D1/s or the M8/8.2.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Thanks Vivek, I was thinking about some of the adapters from 35mm lenses to C-mount, and the use of that combination on a G1.

    Maybe going directly from a 35mm lens (Nikon, Olympus, etc) with just one adapter makes more sense.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Here are some accessories (dating back to the 1950s!) that I find useful.



    #4 is the most useful of all. The OUFRO (16469). This a thin M extension ring. Most RF lenses do not close focus (not meant to). So, this becomes a very important accessory with the M4/3rds adapter.

    #3 OUAGO. Useful focusing adapter with an M mount (see below for an example).

    #2 OTZFO. Similar to the OUAGO. I might add a 39mm ring to the front.

    #1 COOED. This was the OUAGO equivalent in LTM from 1939 (I have it now with an M adapter). The front end has 40mm threads. Very useful to add adapters from Leitz Aristophot and use Summars, Milars and Photars for macro work.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Another view of the two from the above.


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    Re: M4/3 to Leica



    Xenon from the "junk" pile. A superlative lens. It focuses from infinity to about 20cm.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica



    That is a shot of the OUFRO and my M 4/3rds to M adapter. The resemblance is not coincidental as the front part of my M 4/3rd adapter comes from an OUFRO.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    There is a pile of Leitz "stuff" that I have not had a chance to explore yet. So, I will just stop with these.

    In general, many of the focus accessories made for use with a reflex housing are useful.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Very good info. There is a OUFRO at KEH for $21 and a couple on the bay.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Monza, Not sure if the KEH listing is still available or you are looking at a picture of it on the left in the above photo!

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    HI Vivek
    Thanks for that.
    I just bought an OUFRO on ebay - hopefully it'll arrive from the states at around the same time as my m/m4:3 adaptor. so my 50mm 'cron will become a 100mm f2 macro on the G1?!
    Or am I missing something?

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Hi Jono,

    My pleasure. This is posted here exclusively for our group so we get a head start.

    With the extension ring, how any lens will behave would depend on the lens' construction and the focus throw of the lens focus mechanism. The free working distance would generally go down as you go from a longer focal length lens (say a 135mm Elmar or Telyt) to short (35mm Summicron).

    Yes, in general, you can make use of all your M mount lenses for close-ups/macros using this adapter.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Hi Jono,

    My pleasure. This is posted here exclusively for our group so we get a head start.

    With the extension ring, how any lens will behave would depend on the lens' construction and the focus throw of the lens focus mechanism. The free working distance would generally go down as you go from a longer focal length lens (say a 135mm Elmar or Telyt) to short (35mm Summicron).

    Yes, in general, you can make use of all your M mount lenses for close-ups/macros using this adapter.
    Good to get in early - this one was a bit expensive ($65 including shipping to the UK) but it really did look in mint condition. I guess they will suddenly be in demand!

    So, what kind of working distance would you expect with, say a 75mm 'cron?

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Jono, The OUFRO I used for my adapter cost exactly that ($65/-). It still is very inexpensive. You will recognize that when you hold the OUFRO in your hand and compare it with any other modern adapter.

    On the 75 'cron. No definite figures. I would just say, that it would be "comfortable".

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    OK, I just got the one from KEH, don't yet know about usage but but ready to play around.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    On the 75 'cron. No definite figures. I would just say, that it would be "comfortable".
    I thought you were a biochemist Vivek, not a bloody politician

    comfortable indeed!

    Terry - glad you got one too - seems you got the good deal. Are you still waiting for Stephen Gandy's adaptor, or do you have other plans?

    How is your chaos going on? Ours is great - now we have the office . . with telephones, but no desks, and no internet

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Ha! Don't know what is worse (bio- or poli..)!

    I am a plain Chemist with hyphenations along the way (materials-, nano-).

    I am envious of Terry's current aboard. Though I stayed there only for a very short time (and did not even get any free time to wander around or even take snaps), it is a lovely, lovely area.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I thought you were a biochemist Vivek, not a bloody politician

    comfortable indeed!

    Terry - glad you got one too - seems you got the good deal. Are you still waiting for Stephen Gandy's adaptor, or do you have other plans?

    How is your chaos going on? Ours is great - now we have the office . . with telephones, but no desks, and no internet
    Jono - the chaos is getting better. First I haven't been on an airplane for a couple of weeks so I can get in a routine. Next, I have my car which makes life much easier. Seriously, I'm actually moving into my new apartment on Thursday. So, next weekend I will have a home. Think about starting a new apartment from scratch, dishes, sheets, towels everything. However, first with the help of Jack, I got my technology squared away (MBP + 30" cinema display +drobo). Next up the TV's believe it or not best deal (by a significant $ amount) I ordered from B&H in NY. The temporary apartment is now full of stuff that I need to load into the car and get moved but nice to know I'm on the downslope....Next up tackle getting sleep and not waking up at 4M everyday.

  45. #145
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Been fighting that one since the beginning of time. If i actually slept just imagine how more dangerous i would be. Today is a record though made it to 6:30 must of been in a coma.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  46. #146
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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Vivek
    I'm terribly sorry to stick you in a bio bucket (I was a microbiologist of sorts, so I like to give everyone a bio-tag . . hmmm polibiotition)

    Terry - of course, your chaos is much more chaotic than mine - I'm glad it's slowly getting sorted out.

    As for sleep. . . . . I'm an expert, I can sleep anywhere, anytime, for as long as is available, the problem is waking up!

    Just this guy you know

  47. #147
    marknorton
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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    I bought a G1 yesterday, ex display, for around Ģ390 including the kit lens. A lot of camera for the money and I'm excited about the possibility of using it with M lenses, in particular the ability of the camera to sense actual focus instead of relying on both the camera and the lens being correctly adjusted as on an M camera.

    Wide angle is going to be a challenge but the 21mm Elmarit, WATE and CV 12/15 are interesting, as is the Zeiss 18mm/4.

  48. #148
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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Good to see you here, Mark. Can't wait til the take-apart photos.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    MARK!
    Great to see you here - congratulations on your new toy, it's a lot of fun!

    Just this guy you know

  50. #150
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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Mark:

    the camera is a cutie. wait until you get a focusable 12mm CV on it! my LTM-G1 adapters will start to ship next week, then in another week or so the M-G1. I am just now milling the female M bayonet portion for the M-G1 prototype

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