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Fun with Panasonic GH3

Tesselator

New member
Yeah, pretty interesting. If they were talking about the GH2 vs. D800 I would comment:

They WAY over stated the general accuracy of AF all together and WAY under stated the difference between AF on the GH and the D800.​

But of course they were talking about the GH3 vs the D800 and they said the GH3 was "30% to 40% better AF than the GH2" so then I guess I have to accept that.

I've found that the general accuracy (and often speed) on consumer grade Canikon as well as mirrorless cameras is totally lacking! I prove this to myself over and over by Using AF on any of the systems and then using the MF assist (live-view zooming) to check the focus. 4 out 5 times on both the GH2 and GH1 as well as all of the Canikons I've tried, the AF is inaccurate. This is not even considering the times where the AF couldn't find my subject AT ALL because of the BG or FG (or both). The Canon 1D systems (not consumer grade models) for example don't suffer so and the inverse is true: 4 out of 5 times the AF nails it - again not counting the times where AF will just always fail.



The ending was kinda interesting too:

"Have you taken a look at Nikon's mirrorless camera?"
"No, I haven't."
"Don't! It'll ruin your opinion of Nikon."​

:eek: hehehehe.... :watch:
 

ustein

Contributing Editor
>The ending was kinda interesting too:
"Have you taken a look at Nikon's mirrorless camera?"
"No, I haven't."
"Don't! It'll ruin your opinion of Nikon."

I did not like this part because the Nikon V1 is not bad at all for a 1" sensor camera. EVF is very good and the AF is fast.
 
O

OJO

Guest
No network is needed. The camera and the iPhone/iPad will work directly. Before you start make sure you do step 1.

Step 1: Download Lumix Link application to your iPad/iPhone.

Step 2: Choose Wi-Fi under Setup (see image later).
 
O

OJO

Guest
Step 3: Select Wi-Fi function.

Step 4: Select New Connection

Step 5: Select Send Images While Recording

Step 6: Select Smartphone

Step 7: Select Direct

Step 8: Select Manual Connection

Step 9: On your iPhone choose Settings

Step 10: On your iPhone select Wi-Fi and turn it on and select the Panasonic GH3 Wi-Fi name.

Step 11: Enter the password that was given to you in step 8.

Step 12: Back to your GH3 screen and Select iPhone as the device to connect

Step 13: Turn on the Lumix Link application on your iPhone after the connection

Step 14: Shoot your camera and the data will be transfer or downloaded to your iPhone.

This was simple to setup. I did not read the manual yet. I will describe more in TheCameraForum.com
 
I've found that the general accuracy (and often speed) on consumer grade Canikon as well as mirrorless cameras is totally lacking! I prove this to myself over and over by Using AF on any of the systems and then using the MF assist (live-view zooming) to check the focus. 4 out 5 times on both the GH2 and GH1 the AF is inaccurate.
there is something wrong w/ you, because neither my GH3 (which I got last Friday) nor my GH2 (since Jan 2011) were not missing AF at all... do you try to focus on a featureless piece of blank white paper ? a totally clear blue sky ? and no I do not check using MF - I am checking the raw files afterwards... I can only suggest that switching to MF somehow moves the focus from where it was correctly set by CDAF...
 

Tesselator

New member
It's usually very slight, but it's there. It's the difference one can often only see by comparing the AF result with the human adjusted correction in MF. Sometimes it's bigger and can be seen in the files but this could easily be mistaken for a bit (1 pixel or so) of camera shake or just a naturally soft lens. So if you're not checking by MF you're probably just thinking that's how it's supposed to look.

But we're asking the camera to both do the impossible by reading our minds and also go beyond it's physical limits too. It can't actually read our minds so for one example when the AF box is the size of our subject (say, a coffee mug on a table) selecting which part it should focus on (the front, the upper lip, the lower seat, the outline edge, the handle, the rear rim lip) is just random chance or maybe the part with the strongest contrast. Same with a face when not in face detection mode. It won't know if it should focus on the tip of the nose or the stray hairs from the pony-tail in back. The AF systems in the GH1 and 2 are extremely limited and can almost NEVER achieve "critical focus". This is well known by many.

It does also sometimes get the entire shot (or mug in our previous example) wrong. This is true with the OM-D, 3 different GH2s that I've used and a countless (8 or 10) GH1s - also several of the other Olympus µ4/3 models too. It's just the nature of the beast. If you never half-press plus re-half-press your shutter release button when it doesn't focus satisfactorily the first time you will get a large number of images which are out of focus - mostly only slightly but sometimes enough to be bothersome too. These count as misses even if you didn't go ahead and capture the image the first time.

Then there are the mechanics of the DOF range which compounds the errors mentioned above. If you're shooting with a typical µ4/3 zoom or any of the slower-ish primes there is a huge margin for error between where the optimal focus setting actually is and what the AF system comes up with. Any of these alone or combined may be within your own personal tolerances but it's not perfectly accurate. In my case 4 out of 5 AF attempts are outside my personal tolerance levels and noticeable to me. So much so that I usually prefer to shoot adapted mechanical manual-focus lenses.

The way in which a DSLR usually works is different. The AF areas (points!) are smaller and MUCH more precise. On consumer grade DSLRs there are usually a lot less of these points which leaves a lot of margin for error in between them. So it is in concept and so it is in practice. Thus my distinction between consumer grade and pro bodies.

No AF is perfect. Pro body AF can often be very good but still has faults. Consumer grade DSLR AF and µ4/3 AF is problematic for all but the most casual styles or high personal tolerance levels. That the GH3 might be better than the GH2 and I would hope the OM-D as well, is good news IMO. However, I won't be expecting a perfect AF system on any camera anytime in the foreseeable future. Unfortunate but true I'm afraid.
 

Tesselator

New member
>The ending was kinda interesting too:
"Have you taken a look at Nikon's mirrorless camera?"
"No, I haven't."
"Don't! It'll ruin your opinion of Nikon."

I did not like this part because the Nikon V1 is not bad at all for a 1" sensor camera. EVF is very good and the AF is fast.
In my case I thought it was accurate and reflective of my own thoughts and opinions.

When they first came out I gave them a look. After a few moments with the camera I wanted to throw it down and crunch it under foot. Nikon's design concept behind these cameras did indeed (slightly) "ruin my opinion of Nikon". I can't help it, it just did. Excusing it for it's small sensor has not been a satisfactory remedy in my case.

Oh well, life goes on. I wonder how well those cameras are selling anyway?
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
In my case I thought it was accurate and reflective of my own thoughts and opinions.

When they first came out I gave them a look. After a few moments with the camera I wanted to throw it down and crunch it under foot. Nikon's design concept behind these cameras did indeed (slightly) "ruin my opinion of Nikon". I can't help it, it just did. Excusing it for it's small sensor has not been a satisfactory remedy in my case.

Oh well, life goes on. I wonder how well those cameras are selling anyway?
The 1 series has been selling extremely badly, and Nikon has problems getting rid of them even at less than half the price which is the going rate at the moment. For the V1, I think that's purely due to the bad ergonomics. Nikon clearly didn't understand that their potential customers for that model were mostly experienced photographers, people who want easy access to control functions.

It seems to me that Nikon has tried to address some of the shortcomings with the V2, but when we see what Panasonic is doing rather successfully with their GH1/2/3 series, Nikon would probably had much more success giving it a full DSLR user interface. Everything else about the V1/V2 seem to be rather good. Nikon's failure to handle this properly is one of the reasons why I'm now the owner of two GH1 and one GH2 bodies and no V1/V2.

Another result is that when I'm giving myself a compact, carry-everywhere street camera for Christmas, it will be the camera to the left rather than the one to the right in this picture, even if I think the one to the right is soooo much cooler :toocool: :

 

ustein

Contributing Editor
>Step 13: Turn on the Lumix Link application on your iPhone after the connection

>Step 14: Shoot your camera and the data will be transfer or downloaded to your iPhone.

Tried with iPhone and iPad and could not get images downloaded.

Finally worked when I set it to Raw/JPEG
 

ustein

Contributing Editor
I kind of liked the Nikon V1 with the 30-100mm (81-270mm equivalent). Super light and small for that range and not bad.
 

Tesselator

New member
The 1 series has been selling extremely badly, and Nikon has problems getting rid of them even at less than half the price which is the going rate at the moment. For the V1, I think that's purely due to the bad ergonomics. Nikon clearly didn't understand that their potential customers for that model were mostly experienced photographers, people who want easy access to control functions.

It seems to me that Nikon has tried to address some of the shortcomings with the V2, but when we see what Panasonic is doing rather successfully with their GH1/2/3 series, Nikon would probably had much more success giving it a full DSLR user interface. Everything else about the V1/V2 seem to be rather good. Nikon's failure to handle this properly is one of the reasons why I'm now the owner of two GH1 and one GH2 bodies and no V1/V2.

Another result is that when I'm giving myself a compact, carry-everywhere street camera for Christmas, it will be the camera to the left rather than the one to the right in this picture, even if I think the one to the right is soooo much cooler :toocool: :

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/4/9/olynikon.jpg
Such a shame. I want Nikon, Canon, Olympus, and Pentax to snuff out junker companies like Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, Hitachi, and so forth. It's probably just marketing memory and mind-wash but those four "real camera companies" have been publicly doing the right thing in terms of feature implementation, warrantee support, and user support for so long it's hard not to root for them. I've actually heard otherwise about Sony but the others I've seen to be pretty heartless when it comes to those things. Although those companies have or have had a foot in the professional video arena, generally their respective histories have been steeped in low quality consumer junk. So I'm sorry to see a company like Nikon having such a tough time of it.

Heh, they should have had me design their mirrorless, it would have been a resounding hit! :lecture: :facesmack: :p
 
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ustein

Contributing Editor
Shot with GH3 and 12-35mm zoom. These are from Lightroom but I think that C1 gets more fine detail,







 
O

OJO

Guest
Uwe
Have you try the Silky Raw Conversion for fine detail?

Unfortunately Wi-Fi only works with JPG and not raw.
 

ustein

Contributing Editor
>Have you try the Silky Raw Conversion for fine detail?

Silkypix is not really for me :)
 

ustein

Contributing Editor
Shot today with our 30-100 f/2.8 zoom. On Nikon and Canon 70-200mm was often our favorite range and having it in such a small package is nice (though quite expensive).















 
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