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Thread: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

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    The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Since there is a bit of discussion in another thread, I thought I will start one here.

    I do not see anything viable from Leica to go against Panasonic, Olympus and others.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Since there is a bit of discussion in another thread, I thought I will start one here.

    I do not see anything viable from Leica to go against Panasonic, Olympus and others.
    Well, I think you're quite wrong!

    At least - not as a competitor, but something the shape of a CL and the build quality of an M8, with a M4:3 sensor and mount, shipped with an m adaptor (probably one which recognises 6 bit coding).

    Two holes:
    1 is optical - with an overlay that shows dynamic framelines, and also focus confirmation using manual focus (and autofocus for those lenses).
    the other is just like the G1 EVF
    Live view like the G1

    Metal, weathersealed, sexy.

    I think it'd sell like hot cakes.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    I will be happy to be proven wrong about this.

    Hotcakes- remains to be seen if one ever appears in a few months time and not 2 years from now.

    Let us make this a petition to Leica!

    Throw in all your fantasies and suggestions and let us..wait..and..wait..

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    The time to market for Leica is way too long, and by the time such a camera launches, it will be MK.II for the other players.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    I think leica should realize they make stunning if a little over priced optics and actually haven't been successful in developing good digital bodies either in terms of sensors or ergonomics or design...

    I know the rangefinder paradigm has its fans... but in reality is leica still build cameras around a technology that is out dated.... My other half has a RF camera and much as i try ... and love the quality of the lenses.. i cannot get enthusiastic about working out which VF frame i should be looking at, working out how you should compensate for parallax, not being able to focus close, not being able to use lenses wider than 28mm or longer than 90mm without going through a whole set of hoops. I just want to take photos

    I fully understand the heritage, and adore the photos taken in the past when they were the best tool for the job... but times change and while you can still take wonderful photos with a leica its no longer the only way.

    I do love the lenses.. maybe cameras like the new Lumix G1 might offer the way to marry the best of Leica with the best of today

    before i am shot down in flames.. I am 50 years old... shot on everything from box brownie though oly pen f to zenith to Nikon, Canon, and Olympus e510... oh and yes I have shot with a M8 and a RD-1

    love and peace

    Kevin

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Hacker View Post
    The time to market for Leica is way too long, and by the time such a camera launches, it will be MK.II for the other players.
    Hi Hacker
    Let's be dismal then: Leica have already said that they aren't doing m4:3

    But if they had started with Panasonic, then they could be in the marketplace any time - for my camera there really isn't a great deal different from the G1 . . . just the optical hole with an overlay, everything else is cosmetic.

    I would assume that Panasonic would make it for them (just like the digilux cameras).

    But even if it came out when the others were at MkII - it would still be viable, as it would be providing an M 'experience' at a lower price of entry, and with the alternative convenience of auto focus zooms. It's something that Leica could easily provide in conjunction with Panasonic, but which nobody else could really do.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    I feel very sorry saying that I foresee no future for Leica at all. I cannot imagine the M8 sales being suffisant for them to live for another year time to launch the S systme, which in turn won't heat their soupe. All this during a terrible world economic crisis.
    I hope to be proved wrong but I really fear they disappear sooner than later.
    We should have the R11 by now together with the DCL for a consistant future, instead we hope for the R10 in two years from now.
    The page is turned.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    I think leica should realize they make stunning if a little over priced optics and actually haven't been successful in developing good digital bodies either in terms of sensors or ergonomics or design...
    M8 . . . S2?!

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    before i am shot down in flames.. I am 50 years old... shot on everything from box brownie though oly pen f to zenith to Nikon, Canon, and Olympus e510... oh and yes I have shot with a M8 and a RD-1

    love and peace

    Kevin
    I didn't discover rangefinders until 3 years ago, and, depressingly, I'm older than you. Leica is really trying for a renaissance - the M8 was a creditable first step (flawed, yes, but also like nothing else). The S2 looks like a home run (if anyone can afford it). I think there is real scope for a modern day CL using a M4:3 body.

    Don't you?

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Leica is really trying for a renaissance - the M8 was a creditable first step
    Jono, I have been using Leicas lot longer than you. I thought the Epson R-D1s filled that renaissance aspect and not the M8.

    BTW, Kevin, I agree with you. Though I am not 50, I have experienced the whole bunch you mention (and a bit more, perhaps)

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Jono, I have been using Leicas lot longer than you. I thought the Epson R-D1s filled that renaissance aspect and not the M8.

    BTW, Kevin, I agree with you. Though I am not 50, I have experienced the whole bunch you mention (and a bit more, perhaps)
    Well Vivek, you are disagreeing with me, and I'm devastated. The only thing I can think of doing is to go to bed, get up at 5, catch a plane to Aberdeen and spend two days doing computer demonstrations.

    So - I'm off!

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    m8 is an ergonomic dog... I have handled one and hated it ...big bulky uncomfortable to hold... and s2 will kill leica... how many people ... especially in this climate are going to hand over what will probably be 25-30000 dollars for a body and lenses.

    love and peace... just my opinion... your mileage may vary

    K

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well Vivek, you are disagreeing with me, and I'm devastated. The only thing I can think of doing is to go to bed, get up at 5, catch a plane to Aberdeen and spend two days doing computer demonstrations.

    So - I'm off!
    Oh, don't take that to your heart, Jono!

    Have a good night and success with your demos!

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    vivek

    my RD-1 owning other half raised a cheer when you combined Rd-1 and renaissance

    to me in the hand the RD-1 feels better than the M8 - maybe its the shutter lever.. which does also annoy me when i forget my old instinct to wind on after shooting... that used o be second nature all those years ago.

    personally i dream of a digital olympus pen F or even a Nikon EM sizewise... or a steampunk digital Zenith which you had to load with coal and wrote to punchtape :-)

    K

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    I think they have enough on their plate with the S2, M9 and R10's...if they get those done, then maybe they can start thinking about CL's...I am pretty surprised they are not bringing out a Leica branded version of the G1 though...it must be a lens thing (they would not want to have to design dedicated lenses for it, taking away R&D money and staff from the M, R and S series), and I don't think they could have an interchangeable lens camera that they did not design at least some of the lenses for.
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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    m8 is an ergonomic dog... I have handled one and hated it ...big bulky uncomfortable to hold...

    K
    Well I shoot M6 as well as the M8 and yes the body is thicker and not as easy to hold, however the key to the correct balance is to [B]ALWAYS[B] have the optional handgrip attached.......it does make a difference.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    The M8 cool in that it gives the user either option; handgrip or no handgrip. Many cameras don't offer that.

    As for me, I had an M8 and didn't care for the handgrip.

    Instead, I pulled off the slick covering and put a Griptac cover on it. Much nicer.

    With regards to a Leica 4/3, I don't see anything viable, either. Anything with the build quality of the M8 is going to be pricey but won't really offer any better imaging, and the technology moves too fast to invest in such build quality.

    The camera body is just a computer with a lens mount. The technology in the bodies moves at such a rapid pace. Leica is too small, too slow, too methodical to keep up.

    Instead, they should expand their lens line...along the lines of the 25/1.4 they make in 4/3 mount. For comparison, the M Leica 24/1.4 is $6000, the 4/3 Leica 25/1.4 is $800 (B&H prices.)

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    ...snip....

    my RD-1 owning other half raised a cheer when you combined Rd-1 and renaissance

    ....snip...
    Kevin, Please tell your RD-1 owning other half that she is missed around here.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    Kevin, Please tell your RD-1 owning other half that she is missed around here.
    I was thinking the same thing!

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    cindy/terry

    I will tell her when she is awake :-) She is reahing for the 1st coffee of the day right now.

    back on subject... the fact that people have to add bits to their M8 just goes to show it was a poorly thought out design

    peace out

    K

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Double espresso will do it. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    back on subject... the fact that people have to add bits to their M8 just goes to show it was a poorly thought out design

    K
    So, they do have Apple "Kool Aid" in Paris

    It's so funny about design....now when I look at my 6 month old MBP all I see are the seams along the edges and think its not the unibody version. I do find it amazing how Apple continually refines its product design. I did read an article about why Steve Jobs should be hired to run one of the ailing auto companies.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    back on subject... the fact that people have to add bits to their M8 just goes to show it was a poorly thought out design
    I dunno, I think they just tried to make a digital M. I guess that makes the M a flawed camera, too.

    The new Leica lenses are seriously flawed as well, because they are so expensive. They'd be perfect if I could afford 'em.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    nah... its not the kool aid.... its just that i originally studied as an industrial designer... with a lot of luck and a lot more talent i might have been Jony Ives :-)

    as for an apple car ....

    http://gwhiz.wordpress.com/2006/05/2...le-made-a-car/

    K

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    i think its quite odd that Leica wont be in this, but are you sure ?

    in a recent interview written in September with Panasonic staffers they had the following to say

    tspore: With the lack of Leica on the lenses, fuels the belief that Leica and Panasonic have had a break in partnership over the last 6 months or so. IS that true and/or why are the new lenses missing the Leica badge?

    Panasonic: Not at all. We are continuing our very fruitful relationship with Leica. Leica lenses for the Micro Four Thirds standard will be coming in the future. The reason for using LUMIX G lenses is because the G concept targets a very wide range of users, particularly the entry level users.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    The full Q&A is here: http://fourthirdsphoto.com/G1/05.php, although this doesn't address the 4/3 Leica camera body viability question.

    Regarding an Apple car, the first version wouldn't have GPS and would be slower; you'd have to wait a year for a later version with those.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    cindy/terry

    I will tell her when she is awake :-) She is reahing for the 1st coffee of the day right now.

    back on subject... the fact that people have to add bits to their M8 just goes to show it was a poorly thought out design

    peace out

    K
    People have been adding bits to their M's going back to the M3 and the rewind knobs.

    As for gripping it, no problem, just a Lugi case....

    In some 40+ years of mucking around with sail boats, sports cars, cameras, firearm and computers, I've never seen a design which always met all the users needs or requirements fully. Which is why there are after market products.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    I'm not too excited about using Leica M lenses on m43. You pay 5x the price to have a lens that is at least twice as heavy, and then you throw away almost 75% of the light. It's like putting your Hasselblad lenses on an APS-C Canon, fun but not very practical.

    I would like to see Leica and Panasonic collaborate to make some high quality m43 primes, and I expect that they will.
    Last edited by asabet; 9th December 2008 at 16:36.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by asabet View Post
    I'm not too excited about using Leica M lenses on m43. You pay 5x the price to have a lens that is at least twice as heavy, and then you throw away almost 75% of the light. It's like putting your Hasselblad lenses on an APS-C Canon, fun but not very practical.
    On the other hand, for those of us who have an M8 and some M glass, the idea of being able to use those lenses on the G1 is very exciting. Can't wait to get my adapter.

    Bill

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by fordfanjpn View Post
    On the other hand, for those of us who have an M8 and some M glass, the idea of being able to use those lenses on the G1 is very exciting. Can't wait to get my adapter.

    Bill
    I'm not saying that it won't be fun. If I had a G1, I'd put my M mount lenses on there as well, just as I stuck my OM glass on an E-420. I just imagine that for most M8 users, once the novelty has worn off, the M glass will be on the M body and the m43 glass on the m43 body.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    I don't consider it a novelty...as I sold my M8.

    Sure would like some reasonably priced 4/3 primes, Leica or otherwise. So far the only one for sure is the 20/1.7. How about a 12/2? One can dream...

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Kevin and anyone else trashing the M8
    I've been reading this thread, and thinking about the blanket criticisms of the M8 . . . and I've been mulling it over for a couple of days in Aberdeen.

    First of all I though - 'well, Kevin is an industrial designer, maybe it is rubbish, and I just don't realise'.

    Then I thought to myself that I have two bodies, one which I've had for 2 years, the other for about 20 months, and I've taken 50,000 shots with them, and I love shooting with them . . . . and I don't add on grips or straps or whatever, until I had one upgraded recently, I shot them 'as is'. I love them, I find them ergonomically lovely, and artistically, they disappear . . . which is what a camera should do (IMHO).

    So then I think - well, maybe I'm simply not critical enough, and having spent that money I don't want to admit that I've bought a lemming

    Then I think . . .Hang on! I just spent a lot of dosh on a D3 / D700 / 14-24 . 24-70 / 105 macro / 70-300 and various Zeiss ZF lenses this year, and I didn't like:
    the colour
    the handling
    the obsessive complexity.
    the files.

    . . . .and what did I do . . . I sold the lot, but the M8 bodies stay, and I still love them.

    So, what gives - when you guys dismiss the M8 in a few short words, is it because
    1. I'm stupid
    2. you're stupid
    3. you haven't used it enough
    4. different folks like different strokes.

    Of course, it's 4 - you don't have to like it, but then, the terms you use to issue your dismissal, are not 'Well, I've had a go, and I didn't think it was that great personally'. It's that it is a bad design.

    After much thought I've decided that my acceptance (qualified by the obvious rider that it might not be for everyone); does not need to bow down to other people's total dismissal.

    So, if you're reading this thread, and you've been thinking you might like an M8, and then you read that it's clearly a poor piece of design (period). Here is me saying that two years of photography with it says that it might be different for some people.

    One of the great things about these forums, is that there is very little trashing of equipment . . . I like that!

    Finally Kevin - I think your 4:3 photos are great, I've been enjoying them without reservation, I think your better half is a dream, and I really hope you don't take this personally!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by asabet View Post
    I'm not saying that it won't be fun. If I had a G1, I'd put my M mount lenses on there as well, just as I stuck my OM glass on an E-420. I just imagine that for most M8 users, once the novelty has worn off, the M glass will be on the M body and the m43 glass on the m43 body.
    The proof (of course) will be in the pudding. I have to say, if it isn't good with those leica lenses (I still fancy my 75 f2 as a 150 f2 - even with the expanded depth of field). The the G1 won't last long.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    The proof (of course) will be in the pudding. I have to say, if it isn't good with those leica lenses (I still fancy my 75 f2 as a 150 f2 - even with the expanded depth of field). The the G1 won't last long.
    Yes, I didn't mean to dampen anyone's enthusiasm. Sorry if I came across that way. It may work out very well. I would have highest hopes for the 35mm or longer, fast lenses, as these are likely to offer something unique in result.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    I think we've already seen from Vivek's posts that the G1 is capable of some very nice quality with M glass on it. I know I'm looking forward to it. And it will be interesting to compare the G1 to the M8 too. I'm sure it won't be long before those of us who have both will be posting some comparisons.

    Bill

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    So, if you're reading this thread, and you've been thinking you might like an M8, and then you read that it's clearly a poor piece of design (period). Here is me saying that two years of photography with it says that it might be different for some people.
    I've been wanting one every since I read about rangefinders. They are just way out of my price range right now so I'm hoping for some m4/3s cameras and lenses to keep me satisfied. I'm glad I haven't picked up any other lenses for my E-510 yet.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    jono

    no time for a full reply at this moment... but great post

    no offense taken and I truly hope none delivered

    K

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    ....

    Then I thought to myself that I have two bodies, one which I've had for 2 years....!
    Wow! Cloning is a wonderful thing.....

    At 66, Id be more than happy to get another body myself....

    (At least, Im not too old for silly jokes.....)

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    jono

    no time for a full reply at this moment... but great post

    no offense taken and I truly hope none delivered

    K
    Thank you!
    I woke this morning and thought . . . "bollocks - over the top again" - so it's great to see your reply.

    I'll look forward to a spirited rebuttal later!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Jono

    you have the perfect excuse - having to be be in Aberdeen AND doing computer demos in December is enough drive anyone to misery and despair :-) .... I at least arranged that my last demo of the year is in Cairo next week :-)

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Per Ofverbeck View Post
    Wow! Cloning is a wonderful thing.....

    At 66, Id be more than happy to get another body myself....
    You need to think hard about this before going ahead Per. I've had terrible trouble remembering where each body is . . . it was bad enough with one, let alone many!

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    You just have to give them unique names, Jono.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    You just have to give them unique names, Jono.
    Here I have to come clean, there are, actually, 3 of me:
    jon
    jonathan
    jono

    unfortunately one can make some interesting equivalences:

    jonathan = jon
    jonathan <> jono
    jono = jon
    jono <> jonathan
    jon <> jonathan
    jon <> jono

    It's nearly time for a glass of wine

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    Jono

    you have the perfect excuse - having to be be in Aberdeen AND doing computer demos in December is enough drive anyone to misery and despair :-) .... I at least arranged that my last demo of the year is in Cairo next week :-)
    It could have been worse, it was my first demonstration with Silas (new employee, old son) in tow, He had made all the contacts with the customer, but we hadn't quoted them. We did a double act, haggled a bit, and they bought the software on the spot. This has only happened to me once before.
    Of course, we now have to fit installation in between a new one in Germany (I'm doing that one) and one in Khazakstan (Silas is doing that one ).

    Cairo sounds cooool . . . erm . . .

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    jono

    Been trying to work out in my head all day on how to defend my 'less than enhusiasm' for the M8.

    Notice i said M8... not Leica per se... and there lies the the truth

    Leica made great cameras.. they offered photographers a tool that met their needs and was state of the art cutting edge echnology. Small body, quiet shutter, bright viewfinder, interchangeable lenses and the abiilty focus them with confidence. This all came in a package that was built to the highest engineering standards.

    Of course these cameras were nothing without lenses... and this as where Leica were truly masters. The had the designers and the skill to produce lenses that resulted in a look that had never been seen before or probably since.

    the problem is that this was all before I was born...more than 50 years ago. The Leica M3 still remains their best selling camera. It defined a whole generation of photographers and captured many of the iconic images of the 60's

    The problem is that was were they stopped leading... they barely struggled through the 70's 80's and 90's.

    SLRS got better smaller faster and less expensive... sure the lenses might not be as good but they got the shot... and whatever lens you put on a slr... thats what you got full frame on the albeit duller viewfinder... even when focusing close

    But still the legend of Leica and the wish of every photographer/lawyer/dentist to be a Cartier Bresson or a Vietnam war photographer kept them in business...just

    So the digital age arrives and what happens... Leica sit on the sidelines too long hoping the fad will go away and dont embrace the opportunity to once again redefine the ultimate must have camera.

    Instead they shoehorn the technology into a form factor they are comfortable with... but actually they discover that the body need to be just a bit bigger.. they get rid of the redundant shutter cock lever that offered a reassuring point of grippage on the right hand side. But they retain the removeable baseplate to access the battery and the storage media.. forgetting or ignoring that this is likely to be a more regular occurrance in the digital world

    Oh and removing the shutter cocking lever means that they have to now have a noisy motor rewind the shutter immediately... destroying one of their legendary advantages.

    Then there is the quality of the image.. micro lenses to ensure the light hits the sensor just right... then they have to ship out IR filters because basically they cant record black properly.

    None of this sounds like good design to me.. Design is about finding the best solution to the problem.. and with the M8 they failed.

    To me the M8 is a VW Beetle with satnav, air con and electric wing mirrors... a classic car.. probably a lot of fun... but not the best solution available today

    Granted nobody has yet produced the definitive digital camera... they all suffer from flaws... mainly in terms of interface.. The Canon 9 is my closest yet... but i dearly wish it had a focus ring i could touch. LX3 while i hear it takes wonderful pictures fails in its market segment because i cant safely put it in my pocket because it has a lens cap.

    I look at Olympus Pen F' and OM1's and even Nikon EM's and FG's of 20 to 30 years ago and wonder why nobody does a digital SLR of that size and simplicity.

    All I want is a light tight box with wonderful optics i can easily carry and quickly use..

    Leica could give me the optics.. why not the rest

    OK its late ramble off

    Peace and love

    Kevin

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post

    All I want is a light tight box with wonderful optics i can easily carry and quickly use..

    Leica could give me the optics.. why not the rest
    Hmmm sounds like an M8 to me!
    Still, I read what you say, but:
    1. IR filters become no issue when you use them (apart from the cost)
    2. the base plate removal is no issue with practice (I really like it - but I thought it was a REAL pain in the butt with my M6)
    3. It's still quieter than every SLR I've used except the Olympus E1
    4. The image quality has a certain something which really isn't available this side of medium format (even if it is only a lack of AA filter).

    Saying that your best so far is the Canon G9 seems (to me) to be completely laughable. I mean, I have one, it's fine, but comparing the use and image quality to an M8 is like comparing a cheap Australian shiraz with a really good Rioja, neither is the best or the worst . . . . . but they are worlds apart.

    I wouldn't dream of suggesting that an M8 is for everyone (or that it's perfect), but I think that all things worth using have idiosyncrasies, the M8 is no different. Your assessment seems to me to be simply a precis of the bitching which has gone around the internet, and to me it just suggests that you haven't spent enough time with one (why should you . . but if you haven't I'm not sure that you have the credentials for a meaningful panning). . . . . . and when you speak of G9's and LX3's in the same breath, I'm pretty certain I'm right.

    We can agree on the peace and love though!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Your assessment seems to me to be simply a precis of the bitching which has gone around the internet, and to me it just suggests that you haven't spent enough time with one (why should you . . but if you haven't I'm not sure that you have the credentials for a meaningful panning). . . . . . and when you speak of G9's and LX3's in the same breath, I'm pretty certain I'm right.

    We can agree on the peace and love though!
    Jono,

    I think you nailed it. Just another M8 rant from a bystander ... nothing new of interest here. If folks so prescriptive of how bad the M8 is actually used them then these comments would have more credibility.

    As regards a Leica m4/3rds camera - sure, slap a red dot and Leica nameplate on the G1 but produce some m4/3rds Leica design lenses!

    The G1 has me intrigued enough to sell off the G10 & GRD II that have been languishing in my travel bag and get a G1. Like you though, you'd have to prise my M8's from my cold dead fingers ...

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    The G1 has me intrigued enough to sell off the G10 & GRD II that have been languishing in my travel bag and get a G1.
    Comparing the G1 to G10 and GRDII is no worse or better than comparing those with the M8.

    Different classes of cameras.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    As regards a Leica m4/3rds camera - sure, slap a red dot and Leica nameplate on the G1 but produce some m4/3rds Leica design lenses!
    I think the square golden L can be replaced with a red M.

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    HI Graham
    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Jono,

    I think you nailed it. Just another M8 rant from a bystander ... nothing new of interest here. If folks so prescriptive of how bad the M8 is actually used them then these comments would have more credibility.
    Well, Thank you for agreeing with me, but I wouldn't class Kevin as a bystander exactly. I think he worded it pretty well, but of course, we DO agree, and the criticisms certainly sound as if they're based in sentiment rather than experience.

    Vivek
    I quite agree M8 is to the G1 what the G1 is to the G10/G200.
    At least, in terms of image sophistication.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: The Viability of a Leica M4/3rd camera

    jono

    thanks for the kind defence.. I take your points... and perhaps Graham should realise that I am not saying the M8 or indeed any Leica is a bad camera. That would be absurd to say... it is quite obvious that a Leica is capable of taking the very best photos.... but most of that has to do with the superb quality of the lenses.

    my premise is that the industrial and to a certain extent engineering design of the M8 disappoints me... as do many many other digital cameras. I don't think any digital camera has really effectively tackled how to combine the control a keen photographer seeks with the options a digital sensor offers

    I was in no way comparing the G9 quality-wise to the M8... But I know the first time I picked up the G9 it felt 'right' in my hands and knew that i would happily throw it in my pocket or bag when going out and be able to take pictures when and where I wanted.

    Everytime I have picked up and used an M8 it just feels awkward.. cold, unwelcoming... and thats before i even think of the fact that I cant just throw 5000 bucks around like i would My G9 or Oly 510.

    Maybe it is the price I baulk at, maybe it is I just don't see the advantages of the rangefinder in the 21st century or indeed those advantages actually improved from where they were 50 years ago.

    If you gave me an M8.2 tomorrow - I would probably keep the lens, sell the body , buy an RD-1 which from my perspective does pretty much everything the M8 does but with more character, and take a nice trip somewhere to take photos... or maybe a lumix G1 and an adaptor and take an even longer trip. I think through the same lens photos from each of those cameras would be indistinguishable to most people.

    Just don't tell my other half... she is still hankering after a Leica... but looking to film :-)

    take care all... I never mean to be nasty... just enjoy the banter

    peace out

    K

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