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Thread: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Per Ofverbeck's Avatar
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    Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    I just found this lens on sale locally, well used but at a decent price.

    Would it be something for the G1, or is it known as a dog?

    Should be both lighter and cheaper than the f 0.95 one, and noticeably faster than my Summicron 50 - if it can indeed be used wide open.

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    Senior Member back alley's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    it actually a very good lens. it suffers from re-occurring haze but it is easily cleaned up.

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    Senior Member Per Ofverbeck's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Sounds good; thank you!

    At present, it has a bid of (equiv) $120 on a local auction site, but who knows what happens when coming to a close....

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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    i had one for awhile, and iirc, i paid about 300 u.s. for it.

  5. #5
    TimF
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by Per Ofverbeck View Post
    Should be both lighter and cheaper than the f 0.95 one, and noticeably faster than my Summicron 50 - if it can indeed be used wide open.
    My copy is somewhat soft wide open, but very good indeed at medium apertures. I understand that's pretty normal though others MMV of course.

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    Deceased, but remembered fondly here... johnastovall's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Have a Canon 50/1.2 and have used it wide open without any problems.
    Here are couple of examples.


    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Senior Member Per Ofverbeck's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    John, if one can get this kind of contrast and drawing wide open, Im certainly convinced it is "worth having"

    I saw in your gallery here that you used it on a M8; on the G1 it would be equal to a portrait lens. But Ive always liked the 90 - 100 mm (eq) range.

    Thanks a lot for showing this lens potential! Now, Ill see how high this auction gets (hope no other local bidders read this thread...).

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    I really liked my 50/1.2 and regret selling it. I took a chance on an auction, the lens arrived with a opaque film on one of the internal surfaces. However the lens was very easy to disassemble and clean, and once that was done, it looked nearly new. Performance wide open was excellent...there is no reason to get the lens if you aren't shooting it at 1.2.

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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Anyone know of a modern canon lens that draws like that? Would make an incredible addition to my wedding lens lineup, portraits with that look and B&W would look incredible, so much better than any PS tomfoolery.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    did you get it in the end Per?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Senior Member Per Ofverbeck's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    did you get it in the end Per?
    Sadly, no. It started to rise (as usual) shortly before the auction end, and went beyond the limit I had set.

    There are two kinds of camera gear deals that one regrets for ever after....

    1) Selling something

    2) Not buying something


  12. #12
    Ranger 9
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Keep watching, there are a lot of these lenses out there and another one will come around soon.

    I've owned several examples of them. They tend to be characterized by moderate contrast (at best) and like a lot of older high-speed lenses, the image structure at wide apertures consists of a fairly sharp central core surrounded by a haze of blur. Back in the film era we usually dismissed this kind of performance as "mushy," but now digital shooters seem to enthuse about this "drawing quality." (And it's worth noticing that unsharp masking usually cleans up this kind of mushiness well when required.)

    One thing worth watching about this lens is that it's very susceptible to flare from light sources near the picture area, so a lens hood is very helpful. Canon made an impressive-looking vented hood specifically for this optic, but don't be surprised if it costs almost as much as the lens! Another quirk: the front element is unusually convex, to the point that some standard filters will rub against it when screwed in; check before installing. Again, Canon made special filters with the glass mounted flush to the front of the rim.

    A shocker is that Canon's 50/0.95 lens is sharper than the 50/1.2 at every aperture -- but the 0.95 will need an expensive mount conversion to use it on any camera except the Canon 7/7s, whereas the 50/1.2 will fit on any LTM camera, or any M camera with an adapter.

  13. #13
    kiloran
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    I would think so - its by far and away my favourite Leica mount lens. Used it on my R-D1 and also various film bodies. You might lose a little of its dreamy signature on the G1 because you're going to lose the corners. Example of it on a film body @ f/1.2:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/kiloran...7603556519082/



    and on an R-D1 @ the same aperture:



    I'm looking forward to using this on the G1

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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    The hood is huge! Anyway, I tell myself that for 2009, I have to thin my collection of lenses, and this is on the list of lenses to go (I have the Canon 50mm f/0.95 and the optical design is exact).


  15. #15
    kiloran
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    lol, that thing is gonna look huge on a G1. I'd be interested in buying the hood if/when you come to sell it...

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    Senior Member kweide's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    WOW, thats a dreammachine... wish this could have a CMOS Sensor

    Still waiting fpr DP2 or digital version of Pen F

  17. #17
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Lots of 50/1.2 sample shots here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...ad.php?t=68134

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    Senior Member Per Ofverbeck's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    Keep watching, there are a lot of these lenses out there and another one will come around soon.

    I've owned several examples of them. They tend to be characterized by moderate contrast (at best) and like a lot of older high-speed lenses, the image structure at wide apertures consists of a fairly sharp central core surrounded by a haze of blur. Back in the film era we usually dismissed this kind of performance as "mushy," but now digital shooters seem to enthuse about this "drawing quality." (And it's worth noticing that unsharp masking usually cleans up this kind of mushiness well when required.)

    One thing worth watching about this lens is that it's very susceptible to flare from light sources near the picture area, so a lens hood is very helpful. Canon made an impressive-looking vented hood specifically for this optic, but don't be surprised if it costs almost as much as the lens! Another quirk: the front element is unusually convex, to the point that some standard filters will rub against it when screwed in; check before installing. Again, Canon made special filters with the glass mounted flush to the front of the rim.

    A shocker is that Canon's 50/0.95 lens is sharper than the 50/1.2 at every aperture -- but the 0.95 will need an expensive mount conversion to use it on any camera except the Canon 7/7s, whereas the 50/1.2 will fit on any LTM camera, or any M camera with an adapter.
    Well, that "lot of those lenses out there" sounds just a bit reassuring. I just received a private message pointing to a couple, and the prices make me even more angry with myself for botching that auction...

    And, yes the price of the hood is daunting in itself. For now, Ill lick my wounds, wait for the adapter, and try my Summicrons on it; theyre not exactly bottle-bottoms either... And for dreaminess, I have an uncoated 1936 Summar...

    After evaluating the results, Ill decide what to do.

    BTW, has anyone actually mounted that lens on a G1? Its rather fat; will it go clear of the "prism" bump? The M adapter should only be about 8 mm thick.

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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Vivek had the 50/0.95 working on the G1, so the 50/1.2 should fit.

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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Vivek had the 50/0.95 working on the G1, so the 50/1.2 should fit.
    Did Vivek post any sample pictures, and/or more info about what he did? I've seen several mentions about this experiment, but haven't tracked down the original.

    This is a combination I'm really interested in trying; in fact, one of the main reasons I'm interested in Micro Four Thirds.

    I shoot with my 50/0.95 a lot [examples] -- it makes things look just weird enough, but not too weird. It's even a good non-weird lens if you stop it down a bit and keep light sources away from the frame area.

    Of course, I and others have kind of shot ourselves in the foot now by talking it up on fora over the past couple of years. Back in the days when uninformed net.nellies and magazine pundits would routinely dismiss it as "terrible" -- often without ever having used one -- they were fairly affordable; now they've gotten kind of expensive. (I've learned my lesson, though -- I'm keeping my mouth shut about the Canon 85/1.5. If anyone asks you, it's awful, lousy, completely useless...)

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    Deceased, but remembered fondly here... johnastovall's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    A note on Canon 50/1.2 lens hoods: I found the 500+ price for originals too much and found an excellent screw-in from HeavyStar for 20 dollars.

    On filters: Get a cheap Tiffen UV filter remove the filter and use it as and extender for the required IR/UV Cut filter on the M8.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    Did Vivek post any sample pictures, and/or more info about what he did? I've seen several mentions about this experiment, but haven't tracked down the original.

    Click this link and scroll down a bit:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...?t=4194&page=2

    And yes most Canon lenses are junk.

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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiloran View Post
    lol, that thing is gonna look huge on a G1. I'd be interested in buying the hood if/when you come to sell it...
    It is for sale: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4823

    I will have to stick to my New Year's resolution of thinning down my lenses.

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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    On filters: Get a cheap Tiffen UV filter remove the filter and use it as and extender for the required IR/UV Cut filter on the M8.
    I tried both the B+W and Leica filters, and they both fit the lens without any issues without any need for extenders. You can see the Leica UV/IR filter on it in the picture. The copy of the lens in the picture is my 6th and final copy which is the best of all.

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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hacker View Post
    I tried both the B+W and Leica filters, and they both fit the lens without any issues without any need for extenders. You can see the Leica UV/IR filter on it in the picture. The copy of the lens in the picture is my 6th and final copy which is the best of all.
    I was using a Heliopan.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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  26. #26
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Click this link and scroll down a bit:
    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...?t=4194&page=2
    Thanks for that. There still seem to be some unreferenced image links in the thread, but at least I got to see several of the images.

    Seems as if the G1 would be an interesting way to make use of a 50/0.95 and various other exotic oldies.

    Did Vivek fabricate his own adapter?

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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    Did Vivek fabricate his own adapter?
    Yep: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpo...&postcount=133

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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    A note on Canon 50/1.2 lens hoods: I found the 500+ price for originals too much and found an excellent screw-in from HeavyStar for 20 dollars.

    On filters: Get a cheap Tiffen UV filter remove the filter and use it as and extender for the required IR/UV Cut filter on the M8.
    Correction: The 500+ dollar price was for the original Canon 50/0.95 hood.

    Have no idea what the 1.2 original is. I use HeavyStar hood on both my 0.96 and 1.2.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Is anyone here familiar with the Canon 55/1.2 FL lens? Is it optically the similar to the 50/1.2 LTM lens?


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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    I have never shot with the Canon but I just found a mint 50 1.2 Konica Hexanon which, while expensive, seems to be a fine performer. I'll take some shots and post for all to see.

    Woody

  31. #31
    kiloran
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Is anyone here familiar with the Canon 55/1.2 FL lens? Is it optically the similar to the 50/1.2 LTM lens?
    I think it is - it was a very early Canon SLR lens so its likely to be, same as the early Nikkor SLR lenses were rehashes of the Nikon rangefinder lenses.

  32. #32
    kiloran
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    It retains its signature on the G1. Took this this afternoon - a non-shot but it does illustrate all the attributes of this lens:



    That's straight out of the camera using the standard film preset, RAW+JPG fine.

    Full-size version here:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/kiloran...53112/sizes/o/

  33. #33
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiloran View Post
    I think it is - it was a very early Canon SLR lens so its likely to be, same as the early Nikkor SLR lenses were rehashes of the Nikon rangefinder lenses.
    They're both 7-element, 5-group lenses of Gauss type... but the same can be said of almost all 50-ish f/1.2 and f/1.4 lenses. The RF lens was introduced in 1956 and the FL lens in 1968, so there was a lot of time lapse between them; in the meantime, Canon had introduced a 58mm f/1.2 for its early R-mount SLRs, followed by two revisions of the 58/1.2 in the FL mount. The 55/1.2 carried over to the FD mount (in several versions) and in 1971 was joined by a version with an aspheric element, which was quite an exotic feature back then as the aspheric surfaces had to be individually ground and polished.

    So I'd call the 55/1.2 a relative of the original 50/1.2, but a fairly distant relative.

    Lots of fun Canon lens lore can be found in Canon's online museum.

  34. #34
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiloran View Post
    It retains its signature on the G1. Took this this afternoon - a non-shot but it does illustrate all the attributes of this lens:
    Wow, that's a great illustration of the lens' "signature." If anything, the effect looks stronger than I remember when I used to use one on an R-D 1.

    You can see how with the wrong subject, this lens would be disgustingly mushy -- but with the right subject, it gives a very aesthetic effect.

  35. #35
    kiloran
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    Wow, that's a great illustration of the lens' "signature." If anything, the effect looks stronger than I remember when I used to use one on an R-D 1.

    You can see how with the wrong subject, this lens would be disgustingly mushy -- but with the right subject, it gives a very aesthetic effect.
    Definitely a stronger effect than it was on the R-D1. Given that this lens was notorious/notable for its poor edge performance I'm surprised and pleased it still performs in the same way on a 2x crop. I think I'm addicted to this lens - if I was forced to just choose one from my arsenal it would be this one.

  36. #36
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiloran View Post
    Definitely a stronger effect than it was on the R-D1. Given that this lens was notorious/notable for its poor edge performance I'm surprised and pleased it still performs in the same way on a 2x crop. I think I'm addicted to this lens - if I was forced to just choose one from my arsenal it would be this one.
    Now you need to go shopping for a Canon 35mm f/1.5 so you can get the same look when you need a slightly wider focal length.

    Sigh... once people start seeing all these G1 pictures, I guess the prices of Canon RF lenses are going to take another jump...

  37. #37
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Can someone go into further detail as to how this is a 'stronger effect' on the G1 than the Rd1?

  38. #38
    kiloran
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    I guess its just down to the different sensor but the bokeh seems edgier and more defined than it does on the R-D1. Out of the camera to me the images look like they have more contrast. I'm sure you could get the same effect in post-processing.

  39. #39
    kiloran
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    Now you need to go shopping for a Canon 35mm f/1.5 so you can get the same look when you need a slightly wider focal length.

    Sigh... once people start seeing all these G1 pictures, I guess the prices of Canon RF lenses are going to take another jump...
    Well the 50/1.2 has gone up considerably in value since the R-D1 and M8 arrived. Mine is absolutely mint condition with original caps and leather case. I bought it in 2006 for about a third of what they fetch now

    I've been avoiding thinking about the 35/1.5 but may have to give in to temptation at some point. I had the big Voigtlander Nokton for a while and like most Voigtlanders I just didn't like the bokeh (have the 40/1.4 as well) so maybe the Canon is the fast 35 solution. Would make a hell of a portrait lens on a G1!

  40. #40
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    Sigh... once people start seeing all these G1 pictures, I guess the prices of Canon RF lenses are going to take another jump...
    Use Canon FL or FD lenses instead, they are dirt cheap in comparison. For now.

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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    One thing to consider is that the size and weight of the Canon RF lenses are still noticeably less than that of the FD/FL lenses. Anyway, for kicks - heres one from my 50/1.2 LTM with an extension tube mounted on the G1 w/Milich adapter (at 1.2)


  42. #42
    kiloran
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Phobus your link is broken for me, if it is for everyone else as well here is the image:



    Significant creative possibilities 8)

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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    I'm going to try this little beauty on the G1 as soon as I get the FD adapter. I don't know what the image quality will be like, but the relatively small size of this fast f/1.2 lens should make it easy to handle on the G1.




  44. #44
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Good plan. Carl, you can use that lens with one of these, along with your Milich LTM adapter:

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...nverter_B.html

  45. #45
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Novaflex makes a Lieca M to Canon FD adapter but it is expensive.
    V/r John

  46. #46
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Rayqual does too, and it is shipping (the Novoflex isn't yet.)

    Rayqual adapters can be purchased from Japan now, instead of waiting to get them from Cameraquest:

    Canon FD: http://www.japanexposures.com/shop/p...roducts_id=253
    Leica M: http://www.japanexposures.com/shop/p...roducts_id=252

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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Good plan. Carl, you can use that lens with one of these, along with your Milich LTM adapter:

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...nverter_B.html
    Thanks for the link Robert. I'll give that a try.

    Regards,
    Carl

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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Finally received the Rayqual FD adapter and tried it with the Canon 50mm f/1.2 on the G1. Here are a few shots taken with this combo, all at f/1.2 except the first "self portrait" taken at f/5.6.










  49. #49
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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Carl, I like the way that lens renders...how does the camera/lens combination feel? Is it a little front-heavy? Could you do a side shot of the G1 with lens and adapter?

    Interestingly, I just received my Canon Lens Converter B today. Add an LTM adapter, and presto, it becomes a Canon FD --> Leica M adapter. But I don't have any FL or FD lenses yet to play with.

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    Re: Canon 50/1.2 for LTM: worth having?

    Could be interesting for portraits, Carl. It appears that CA could be a problem.

    Are you using a long enough hood on it?

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