Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 28 of 28

Thread: Panasonic 45-200 question

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    413
    Post Thanks / Like

    Panasonic 45-200 question

    Now I apologize in advance if this question sounds stupid, but this is the longest lens I ever owned, and I'm new to O.I.S.

    This afternoon I did some tests outside.

    The focal length was set around 185, aperture around f5,5 , shutter 1/320 and ISO around 160.

    I'm quite happy with the results, but when I view at 100% there's this blur that I don't recognize from my M lenses.

    Is it the O.I.S. ?

    BTW, I think the 'effect' looks kind of 'interesting', but I'd like to know what it is...

    Thanks, Peter
    Last edited by peterv; 23rd April 2009 at 11:50.

  2. #2
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Galveston, TX
    Posts
    947
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    171

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    I think I may have seen the same thing but I haven't yet shot enough to be sure. Also, what happens if you turn OIS off or use one of the other settings besides number 1?
    V/r John

  3. #3
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Looks like heat effects even though I know it is not but has that same look of heat thermals.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  4. #4
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    One thing to bear in mind is that you're shooting at nearly 300mm effective focal length and so any small movement will translate to blur. OIS is good, but you still need to consider shutter speed and 1/320th is not that fast for this (effective) focal length.

    Cheers,

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    413
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    John, I will do some more testing hopefully tomorrow.

    Guy, I was thinking the same thing, compressed air...
    Of course that's not what we see here, but it sure looks like it.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    413
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    One thing to bear in mind is that you're shooting at nearly 300mm effective focal length and so any small movement will translate to blur. OIS is good, but you still need to consider shutter speed and 1/320th is not that fast for this (effective) focal length.

    Cheers,
    Thanks, that's very true, but the areas that are in focus don't seem to show this phenomenon.

    Another 100% to show what I mean...
    Last edited by peterv; 23rd April 2009 at 11:50.

  7. #7
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Man that looks exactly like heat thermals. I shoot here in the desert with long glass sometimes and that is exactly the effect. Right above the guy's hat on the left is so obvious.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  8. #8
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    One thing to bear in mind is that you're shooting at nearly 300mm effective focal length and so any small movement will translate to blur. OIS is good, but you still need to consider shutter speed and 1/320th is not that fast for this (effective) focal length.

    Cheers,
    Simon exactly a good point you are at 300mm and this is when the heat thermals i experience here in the desert. Now it could be just unstable air in the cold , not sure. But the compression of the lens does bring things like this on, but usually it is heat. Very strange but maybe the cold can do this also, not sure.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    413
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Guy, you're right.

    The phenomenon occurs were the sunlight hits the background. The same OOF areas in the shade look blurry, but without the heat effect.

    It's freezing here, but the sun is at a very low angle on a bright day, so that must be the answer.

    That said, I wonder what this would have looked loke with O.I.S. switched of, and no sharpening applied.

    All in all I conclude that the lens is just fine, it's my inexperience with long lenses...

    Here's another example, the left was hit by sunlight, the right was in the shade.

    Thanks everyone!
    Last edited by peterv; 23rd April 2009 at 11:50.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    17

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    This is a wild suggestion, but are these in-camera jpegs? have you got the associated RAW files? could it be noise removal rendering OOF areas strangely?

    Panasonic are known to be 'adventurous' with their image processing... just wondering whether this is a by-product?

    Kind Regards

    Brian

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    413
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    As for the first photo in this thread, I think it's a combination of motion blur and shallow DOF.

    Another lesson learned

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    413
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    This is a wild suggestion, but are these in-camera jpegs? have you got the associated RAW files? could it be noise removal rendering OOF areas strangely?

    Panasonic are known to be 'adventurous' with their image processing... just wondering whether this is a by-product?

    Kind Regards

    Brian
    Hi Brian, thanks for the input.

    I was thinking along those same lines, so I developed the RW2 in Silkypix.

    On my monitor (24 inch CD) there's really not much difference. No strange jpg-in-camera-cooking-artifacts.

    Looks like Panasonic did quite a decent job with the camera software!

    Here's the Silkypix screenshot...

    Cheers, Peter
    Last edited by peterv; 23rd April 2009 at 11:50.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    17

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Well well well... curiouser and curiouser!

    Did you notice any shimmering when you took the shot? I guess it may not show with the EVF? Worth checking with/without OIS enabled, but probably atmospherics?

    Very interesting, thanks for sharing

    Kind Regards

    Brian

  14. #14
    Senior Member Per Ofverbeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    503
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    5

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Looks like heat effects even though I know it is not but has that same look of heat thermals.
    Well, heat effects certainly can occur in winter; they´re driven by temperature gradients more than absolute temperatures.

    So, a backlit scene with lots of cars and people on a cold winter´s day with little wind can, and often does, show the phenomenon. Like Guy, I do think that´s what we´re seeing here.

  15. #15
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    3,848
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question


  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    413
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Brian, I didn't notice the shimmering. But than I don't have tele-eyes...

    What do you find curious?

    I think we solved this one, definitely a case of inexperience on my part

  17. #17
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Yea that is exactly what i thought , okay mystery solved. Per hit the correct term with temperature gradients. That last photo is a great example.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  18. #18
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Exactly I shoot jets all the time on hot runways and exactly my experience.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  19. #19
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    17

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Hi Peter,

    no - I can quite believe it's atmospherics... Just curious how pronounced these are without you noticing at the time through your viewfinder.

    Kind Regards

    Brian

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    North Carolina western foothills
    Posts
    1,860
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    If these are 100% crops, would you have been able to see that in the VF? Interesting.

    I'm not as interested in this lens to start with as the kit lens and going to wait for the 20 f/1.7 and maybe look for a good 3rd party, but I've been seeing a lot of shots on other forums and hadn't seen this phenomenen but I doubt similar circumstances have come up in those shots.

    Diane

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    413
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    If these are 100% crops, would you have been able to see that in the VF? Interesting.

    I'm not as interested in this lens to start with as the kit lens and going to wait for the 20 f/1.7 and maybe look for a good 3rd party, but I've been seeing a lot of shots on other forums and hadn't seen this phenomenen but I doubt similar circumstances have come up in those shots.

    Diane
    Hi Diane,

    I think that this could have been seen through the VF, or at least on the LCD. (if only I had taken the time to watch closely :-)

    Again, I'd like to emphasize that this phenomenon has nothing to do with this particular lens. It would have occured on other lenses too, under the same atmospheric circumstances.

    Now as for the motion blur and shallow DOF, I hope to be able to some more testing today, or tomorrow.

    Kind regards,

    Peter

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    North Carolina western foothills
    Posts
    1,860
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    Hi Diane,

    I think that this could have been seen through the VF, or at least on the LCD. (if only I had taken the time to watch closely :-)

    Again, I'd like to emphasize that this phenomenon has nothing to do with this particular lens. It would have occured on other lenses too, under the same atmospheric circumstances.

    Now as for the motion blur and shallow DOF, I hope to be able to some more testing today, or tomorrow.

    Kind regards,

    Peter
    Yes, thanks, I understood that from the thread--but still interesting. I've never seen it (I don't shoot in the desert like Guy LOL).

    I'll be really interested in your further tests. I've been wondering if this is a lens for me--I rarely carry my 70-200 for the 5D--so I might be better off with a fixed longer and faster lens--but seeing what others get with it will help decide. There's something to be said about having a smallish zoom when one needs it.

    Diane

  23. #23
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    6,955
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1145

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Yes, thanks, I understood that from the thread--but still interesting. I've never seen it (I don't shoot in the desert like Guy LOL).

    I'll be really interested in your further tests. I've been wondering if this is a lens for me--I rarely carry my 70-200 for the 5D--so I might be better off with a fixed longer and faster lens--but seeing what others get with it will help decide. There's something to be said about having a smallish zoom when one needs it.

    Diane
    the 45-200 is about the size of the lens shade for the 70-200. I did not buy the Nilon version becuase I just couldn't see myself ever wanting to carry it.

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    330
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    130

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Peter - were there any restuarants/cafes with heated outdoor patios? It seemed like in some images, the "shimmer" effect was highest near places with canopies.

  25. #25
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    3,848
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    the 45-200 is about the size of the lens shade for the 70-200.



  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    413
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Quote Originally Posted by Shac View Post
    Peter - were there any restuarants/cafes with heated outdoor patios? It seemed like in some images, the "shimmer" effect was highest near places with canopies.
    Hi Shac,

    no restaurants or cafes. Just freezing air, intense sunlight and a long lens

    Cheers,

    Peter

  27. #27
    olyinaz
    Guest

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    Definitely heat currents in the air (highly localized changes in air density thus the refractive index or the air - I see it all the time in the desert and also in aviation) are visible in the shots but the other item I noted is that the lens was wide open no? It's a good lens (good value in other words) but still, you're going to get some dreamy softness (when viewed at 100%) when wide open at certain focal lengths from an inexpensive lens such as this. Just thinking "out loud". :-)

    Cheers,
    Oly

  28. #28
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Galveston, TX
    Posts
    947
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    171

    Re: Panasonic 45-200 question

    I can definitely tell the difference between a far distant shot with the lens set to 200mm and a closer shot. Since it is effectively a 400 the effect of the atmosphere at a distance is increased making the image softer. I will post some samples to illustrate. The first is the full image and then at 100% crop. The first set taken about 100 yards away and the second about 25 yards away.
    Last edited by barjohn; 9th August 2009 at 22:11.
    V/r John

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •