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Thread: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

  1. #1
    guidomo
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    Question Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    Hi everyone, my first post here! Great to see there is a home for those interested in using their Leica lenses on the new u4/3 system.

    After all I have read about the different adapters available I am still unsure about their features, some information are even conflicting.

    What matters to me for choosing which one to buy:

    (1) Can the adapter be left on the camera when changing between M lenses, thus effectively turning the G1 into an M bayonet camera?

    (2) Dimensions/clearances: I understand that whether certain lenses can be accommodated may depend on the geometry of the adapter. Are some adapters more flexible ("accommodating") than others?

    (3) Infinity focus. John Milich advertises his adapter with "Lenses will focus to infinity". Is there an issue with other adapters?

    (4) General build quality

    (5) Colour. Though secondary, I would like to know what color finish they have. Black preferred.

    I would be most grateful if those who own the adapters could post their experiences here. Many thanks in advance, hopefully it would be of help to others as well!

  2. #2
    wblynch
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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    At least one of them (Novaflex?) remains with the lens due to the manner of the locking pins.

  3. #3
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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by guidomo View Post
    (1) Can the adapter be left on the camera when changing between M lenses, thus effectively turning the G1 into an M bayonet camera?
    With the Novoflex, no. I plan on filing down the offending pin to fix this, however.

    The Pana 4/3 adapter can be left on the camera, I don't see a reason why the M adapter cannot also.

    (2) Dimensions/clearances: I understand that whether certain lenses can be accommodated may depend on the geometry of the adapter. Are some adapters more flexible ("accommodating") than others?
    This is unknown at this time.

    It appears the Novoflex has a wider throat, which exposes the lens contacts on the G1; the Rayqual obscures those contacts.

    The RayQual has been used with various lenses as seen here: http://www.flickr.com/groups/lumixg1m/

    and here: http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/How...+Micro+4-3rds/

    The lens release button on the Novoflex is recessed.


    (3) Infinity focus. John Milich advertises his adapter with "Lenses will focus to infinity". Is there an issue with other adapters?
    No.

    (4) General build quality
    Novoflex looks well-built to me. They are experienced with all sorts of other products (ball heads, etc.) and have been around a while. I have not handled the RayQual.

    (5) Colour. Though secondary, I would like to know what color finish they have. Black preferred.


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    Senior Member Hacker's Avatar
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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    Will it be able to be left there with an M adapter for screw mount lenses? In other words, leave the LTM to M adapter in the M to M43 adapter?

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    Senior Member Per Ofverbeck's Avatar
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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hacker View Post
    Will it be able to be left there with an M adapter for screw mount lenses? In other words, leave the LTM to M adapter in the M to M43 adapter?
    While I don´t have access to them, I can see nothing that would prevent doing that; when the M/LTM adapter is locked into the MFT/LM adapter, the latter has no way of "knowing" whether the threads of the former are actually carrying a lens or not. There´s no locking pin or other moving parts on the thread mount, and of course no electrical contacts (). And the RF cam doesn´t engage anything either.

    Only, you´d better have one of those M lens rear covers that double as an adapter key; getting an empty M/LTM adapter off without it can be rather difficult....

  6. #6
    Super Duper
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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    Yes, a screw mount lens can be removed, leaving the M adapter and the LTM adapter on the camera.

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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    Perhaps John Milich should chime in here as to whether or not his M adapter can be left on the camera. His adapters are so good that regardless of the brass color this is the direction I am going.

    Speak up John!

    Woody

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    Just spent a few minutes working on the Novoflex so that the adapter can be left on the camera. Now it's an M-mount G1.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Mike Hatam's Avatar
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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Just spent a few minutes working on the Novoflex so that the adapter can be left on the camera. Now it's an M-mount G1.
    Would love to hear how you did this. Can you share, and perhaps include a photo or two?

    Thanks,
    Mike
    Mike Hatam
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    Super Duper
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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    It's not difficult to file the pin, but the pin and the adapter are finely machined; if the pin is not filed very smoothly, the lens release button will be harder to push.

    I wouldn't recommend this except for those that are DIY-savvy and don't mind the risk of screwing up the pin, and having to order a replacement from Novoflex. So proceed at your own risk.

    This is the pin. When the adapter is on the camera, this pin will not move if the lens release button on the Novoflex is pressed, because it can't. It bumps into the G1 lens mount.



    When the pin is shaved (ever so slightly) it will no longer bump the G1 lens mount when the lens release button is pressed, allowing the M lens to be removed, leaving the adapter on the camera.

    First, press the lens release button, and note now far the pin extends. This is how much you'll need to file. It's not much at all.

    To file it, first remove the four screws on the adapter, separate the two halves of the adapter, take out the pin, watch for the spring, it is liable to pop out and fly away.

    File down the pin and reassemble. Don't file the wrong end of the pin! The other end is what holds the M lens onto the adapter, you don't want to mess with that. File only the smaller diameter pin.

    Be prepared to take it apart a few times until the pin is filed smoothly enough.

    Last edited by monza; 30th December 2008 at 10:00.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Mike Hatam's Avatar
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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    Thanks Monza - this is very helpful. I'm also eager to see how the other adapters (especially the Milich version) handle this situation.

    It would be nice to buy just one adapter, leave it on the camera, and freely switch M lenses while shooting.
    Mike Hatam
    Sony A99, RX1, RX100

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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    I traded emails with John Milich yesterday. I know he was working on how to do the spring for the release on the M mount adapter. Funny thing happened yesterday. I opened a package with an extension tube adapter (OUFRO) from KEH. I couldn't get it off the lens until I realized that you don't pus the pin in but slide it down (hard to explain). It looks like a simpler solution to taking the lens off the adapter. I wrote to John about this method. He is out of town for a couple of days....so more to come.

  13. #13
    Super Duper
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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    M mount G1 I think I have too much time on my hands.


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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    ok...i just got back in town. The female side of the M bayonet is a bit tricky because you need to provide the detent/release pin and button, but more tricky is the spring method to provide tight flange contact when the bayonet is seated. Leica (and G1) use a leaf spring, Novoflex uses a sort of integral spring/tab. I made a prototype a few weeks ago, determined the bayonet seating and flange tightness to be correct and now have to implement the detent pin. I expect to have these ready by early next week

    jm

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    Senior Subscriber Member Mike Hatam's Avatar
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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    M mount G1 I think I have too much time on my hands.

    Awesome!!!
    Mike Hatam
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    Senior Subscriber Member Mike Hatam's Avatar
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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    ok...i just got back in town. The female side of the M bayonet is a bit tricky because you need to provide the detent/release pin and button, but more tricky is the spring method to provide tight flange contact when the bayonet is seated. Leica (and G1) use a leaf spring, Novoflex uses a sort of integral spring/tab. I made a prototype a few weeks ago, determined the bayonet seating and flange tightness to be correct and now have to implement the detent pin. I expect to have these ready by early next week

    jm
    Excellent news! We can't wait to get your adapters in our hands
    Mike Hatam
    Sony A99, RX1, RX100

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    Senior Member Per Ofverbeck's Avatar
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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    It's not difficult to file the pin...
    No, I did get an idea this might be a possibility already when seeing your first set of pictures of the Novoflex adapter, but I don´t have it in my hands yet...

    My one question to you is: do you notice any increase in "sideways" (i.e. radial) moveability of the lens after filing that pin? I´d imagine it helps in keeping the lock pin parallel to the optical axis; the radial force on the pin if someone tried to turn a mounted lens should be something to take into account, since the length of that pin determines the resulting torque, or rather shearing force.

    Edit: Well, yet another question: how does one pay when ordering directly from Novoflex? Will a credit card do? They´re closed for the holidays, so I can´t reach them directly...

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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    I think the Novoflex could be left on the G1 with an LTM to M39 adapter, so one camera can be dedicated to using LTM lenses since the adapter will not come loose without taking the entire adapter off the camera.

    The Rayqual or similar one can then be used for M lenses on another body.

  19. #19
    Super Duper
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    Re: Different u4/3-LM adapter designs - what differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Per Ofverbeck View Post
    My one question to you is: do you notice any increase in "sideways" (i.e. radial) moveability of the lens after filing that pin?
    Due to the design of the pin and lens release, there is no effect on the lens side of the adapter.

    Edit: Well, yet another question: how does one pay when ordering directly from Novoflex? Will a credit card do? They´re closed for the holidays, so I can´t reach them directly...
    I paid with credit card.

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