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Thread: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    The only thing notably lacking from m43 (in my humble opinion) is good AF. When visiting our daughter at camp, my wife said (about an OM-D with 75/1.8 lens) "This thing is so slow to focus. Why didn't you bring the Canon with the big white lens?"

    Matt
    What suits your wife and what suits me are two very different things.

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonygamble View Post
    Am I the only person around here bemused at the number of people placing orders for the GX7 before we know which sensor it contains?
    We know what sensor it contains ... a new one. What we are not sure of yet is the measurement of its performance. However, since I am still quite happy with the performance of my ancient E-1's old 5Mpixel sensor, and every later camera seems to have an even more capable sensor, I'm sure the GX7 will perform well enough. :-)

    G

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    We know what sensor it contains ... a new one. and every later camera seems to have an even more capable sensor, I'm sure the GX7 will perform well enough. :-)

    G
    I'm still using the GH2. I thought that Panasonic had overproduced, or overbought, that sensor (antiicipating sales to Olympus that dwindled rather than grew). Did I not read around here that all the newer bodies were using essentially the same sensor, albeit with evolving software?

    Tony

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonygamble View Post
    I'm still using the GH2. I thought that Panasonic had overproduced, or overbought, that sensor (antiicipating sales to Olympus that dwindled rather than grew). Did I not read around here that all the newer bodies were using essentially the same sensor, albeit with evolving software?
    I don't know what you read around here or what the GH2 sensor use has been across models, but Panasonic says quite clearly in their press release that this is a new design sensor:

    from Popular Photography - New Panasonic Lumix GX7 and Leica Nocticron 42.5mm f/1.2 lens and official Panasonic Press Release

    ...Panasonic developed a new 16.00-megapixel Digital Live MOS Sensor for LUMIX GX7 that achieves both high resolution and high sensitivity image recording with minimum noise by utilizing cutting-edge Semiconductor Fine Technology to improve color saturation by approx. 10% and a redesigned on-chip lens that enhances light condensation to achieve approx.10% higher sensitivity. Noise generation is minimized in both pixel circuit and digital signal readout circuit for better S/N ratio by approx. 25% and detail reproduction by approx.10% compared to the LUMIX DMC-GX1, making it possible to capture clear images even in low lit situations. The image processor Venus Engine features advanced noise reduction systems, including Multi-process NR (Noise Reduction) and Detail Reproduction Filter Process, which enhances the limit resolution. The combination of the digital Live MOS Sensor and the Venus Engine achieves max. ISO 25,600. ...
    It doesn't give much in way of technical specifications for the new sensor, but press releases never do.

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Hi Matt, yes I was a little surprised by the focusing speed of the 75mm f1.8, but the quality seems to approach that of the sublime ZD150mm f2, which I never quite afforded for 4/3 rds but seriously desired for years.

    The GX7 looks like a winner... Viewfinder in the right place, nice shape and I hope Olympus finally add focus peaking as a firmware upgrade to the E-M5 now everyone else has it!

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Yeah, even though Panasonic called the G5 and G6 sensors "new" because they used partially updated parts, the output still stayed very similar to the GH2.

    Now, with the GX7, Panasonic has again called it a "new sensor", but also provided some technical explanation of what is different: larger photo-diodes and a new noise-reducing electronic circuit, primarily. This seems to be at least a more substantial update in sensor technology than the G series was getting.

    I think a lot of people recognize that while that GH2 series sensor performed well, the Sony sensors in the GH3 and most recent Olympus cameras has slightly better dynamic range and low-light performance. The oldest of these, the E-M5, is now nearly 18 months old so the big question is, will we see a step beyond even that? Or will it merely be similar to what we have now?

    At the end of the day though... only the pixel peepers know for sure. The rest put in their early pre-orders and happily take pictures when the camera arrives, without a care for how the camera they didn't order would have performed. :-)

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    This camera has so many things going for it that they could sell it with the E-1 sensor

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by ggibson View Post
    Yeah, even though Panasonic called the G5 and G6 sensors "new" because they used partially updated parts, the output still stayed very similar to the GH2.

    Now, with the GX7, Panasonic has again called it a "new sensor", but also provided some technical explanation of what is different: larger photo-diodes and a new noise-reducing electronic circuit, primarily. This seems to be at least a more substantial update in sensor technology than the G series was getting.

    I think a lot of people recognize that while that GH2 series sensor performed well, the Sony sensors in the GH3 and most recent Olympus cameras has slightly better dynamic range and low-light performance. The oldest of these, the E-M5, is now nearly 18 months old so the big question is, will we see a step beyond even that? Or will it merely be similar to what we have now?

    At the end of the day though... only the pixel peepers know for sure. The rest put in their early pre-orders and happily take pictures when the camera arrives, without a care for how the camera they didn't order would have performed. :-)
    All the m43 sensor discussion and hype is getting really boring. There were 2 major achievements in the past years, the GH2 sensor (which was already 18MP and multi ratio) and the OMD sensor some 18 months ago. Never ever have we seen a real 18MP sensor on m43 format, which at least was the goal behind 43 when it was developed (more than 10 years ago).

    I am sure with todays sensor and processing technology it would be feasible to produce an extremely well working m43 sensor in the range from 20-24MP. None of the tons of new m43 cameras hitting the street get even close to that range, but rather keep staying at 16MP and claiming better performance.

    Come on Olympus and Panasonic, just get your task done and bring finally a sensor in the 20MP range, which is on par with what we know from the OMD with DR and high ISO performance.

    I would not be surprised, if the new (to come) Pro OMD will have finally this new sensor.

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Some more musings about m43:

    Yesterday I had the chance to finally play with the new VF4 (on an EP5). I had very high expectations in the IQ I would see when looking through - at least after all the overwhelming reports - but I was badly disappointed. While the image you see is definitely larger that the one in the OMD, the quality was rather below the EVF of the OMD. Plus I had the impression that the colors were still a bit off.

    So maybe the GX7 EVF is better this time and even more importantly shows better (more accurate) colors - at least we still can hope.

    Other than that I only can say that for me all EVFs I have seen to date are not even coming close to an average OVF - PERIOD. I think that the OMD EVF is still the best, as although it does not have the largest magnification, it shows a "quiet" and not "nervous" image and is pretty accurate in colors.

    Again high hopes here on the EVF from the GX7 .....

    PS: the OVF of my K5IIs is miles ahead of all existing EVFs I could see so far (have seen pretty much all of them), not to speak of the OVF of the D800E!

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    I hesitate before posting this as I don't want to start a pixelpeeper war.

    BUT

    My experience of talking to photographers earning a living from their cameras suggests that they would prefer better high ISO performance to get more available light opportunities when they have had to use flash in the past. Plus the benefits of speed/aperture that optional high ISO brings.

    Most are happy with the number of pixels they already own.

    Tony
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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonygamble View Post
    I hesitate before posting this as I don't want to start a pixelpeeper war.

    BUT

    My experience of talking to photographers earning a living from their cameras suggests that they would prefer better high ISO performance to get more available light opportunities when they have had to use flash in the past. Plus the benefits of speed/aperture that optional high ISO brings.

    Most are happy with the number of pixels they already own.

    Tony
    I agree with that, but actually we are already there with IQ and high ISO capabilities in most cameras sold today. Definitely this is true for m43 since the introduction of the OMD.

    So the question which comes up is, do we need even better high ISO? Are we all shooting surveillance or do most of us (including pros) shoot at least in low light? Photography is painting with light at least, so I think this answers the question.

    Point with Pana sensors is, that so far their sensors were not so great low light performers, this might have changed with the GX7.

    My point is, they are late to the game, given what the OMD offered already 18 months ago. Then concluding from that I could not care less about a slightly better high ISO performance compared to an increase to decent and versatile resolution - which for me is in the range from 20-24MP. I agree more is not necessary for most applications.

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Yesterday I had the chance to finally play with the new VF4 (on an EP5). I had very high expectations in the IQ I would see when looking through - at least after all the overwhelming reports - but I was badly disappointed. While the image you see is definitely larger that the one in the OMD, the quality was rather below the EVF of the OMD. Plus I had the impression that the colors were still a bit off.
    Peter
    I own the VF-4 which I use mainly for macro with the mZuiko 60mm on the OM-D and we must have very different copies!!

    The VF-4 resolves at twice that of the OM-D EVF with a very clear optically adjustable screen with very natural colours which is exactly what I need for nature photography in the wild. Add the fully adjustable to 90 degrees tilt it is the same as the GX7. How it compares in the metal so to speak, we shall just have to wait and see.
    Cheers, Dave
    www.simmondsphotography.com

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by dhsimmonds View Post
    Peter
    I own the VF-4 which I use mainly for macro with the mZuiko 60mm on the OM-D and we must have very different copies!!

    The VF-4 resolves at twice that of the OM-D EVF with a very clear optically adjustable screen with very natural colours which is exactly what I need for nature photography in the wild. Add the fully adjustable to 90 degrees tilt it is the same as the GX7. How it compares in the metal so to speak, we shall just have to wait and see.
    Great to hear your VF4 performs so well, I only can speak about my test yesterday and I was underwhelmed. Maybe there is a difference if you use it on the EP5 or the OMD - something like refresh rate ????

    Even the Leica VF2 on the Leica X Vario performed much better IMHO.

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Are we all shooting surveillance or do most of us (including pros) shoot at least in low light? Photography is painting with light at least, so I think this answers the question.
    The pros I work alongside do just as much work indoors as outdoors. We are helped by the new fast f1.* primes that m43 has made affordable.

    But stick your camera on auto ISO and see what reading it gives in your living room or office after dark with the lights on and I'd be surprised if you were seeing readings brighter than ISO1000. Move to somewhere more atmospheric like a bar or restaurant and you'll be nudging 3200 often.

    Probably half my paid work is in these situations.

    Tony
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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonygamble View Post
    The pros I work alongside do just as much work indoors as outdoors. We are helped by the new fast f1.* primes that m43 has made affordable.

    But stick your camera on auto ISO and see what reading it gives in your living room or office after dark with the lights on and I'd be surprised if you were seeing readings brighter than ISO1000. Move to somewhere more atmospheric like a bar or restaurant and you'll be nudging 3200 often.

    Probably half my paid work is in these situations.

    Tony
    I wouldn't dream about using auto ISO for paid work, but the I am a bit old-fashioned.
    Things I sell: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/epixx?language=en
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    Smile Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I wouldn't dream about using auto ISO for paid work, but the I am a bit old-fashioned.
    Not old fashioned. Just stating the obvious After all we are PROFESSIONALS aren't we? We don't dig auto like the p&s brigade

    My point though, was suggesting that you took your camera into an ambient lit room and then maybe into a bar or restaurant and let it tell you (auto saves time though unprofessional ) what ISO it needs.

    Unless you are relying on the pancake primes you will almost certainly be groping around settings from 1000 to 3200. Give me a noiseless 3200 and I'll willingly forfeit the craved for 24mb pixels for my current 16mb.

    How big do you guys print your stuff?

    Tony

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonygamble View Post

    Originally Posted by Godfrey
    Are we all shooting surveillance or do most of us (including pros) shoot at least in low light? Photography is painting with light at least, so I think this answers the question.
    You've misattributed that quote. I never said that.

    With that understood, my 'indoor work' is usually done at ISO 800 to 1600. Yes, I've used higher too, once upon a time now and then. But I feel stratospheric sensitivity settings are just as much a marketeeting-driven silly fad as the massive mega Mpixel obsession. I'm much more interested in camera responsiveness, handling, and control ergonomics with nearly any recent sensor. I had occasion to pull out my ancient E-1 the other day and do some shooting with it. It's ridiculously quaint 5Mpixel sensor with a realistic ISO 800 limit for best results still returns beautiful results and allows me to capture amazing quality photos in dim circumstances. I've printed work from the E-1 at 20x24 inch size, which isn't easy but works very well. Aside from the lethargic write speed to card, the E-1's responsiveness in shooting still place it at the head of the class, even with an adapted manual lens it's ahead of the much more recent M9, six years newer, and its ergonomics are second to none.

    I hope the GX7 can at least challenge that standard. ;-)

    G
    Last edited by Godfrey; 6th August 2013 at 11:38.

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    You've misattributed that quote. I never said that.

    G
    Sorry. I am not sure why your name got attached - but then I am not sure about the quote system here anyway

    In the last year I have had to supply digital files taken from a quite old Ricoh DR. Also a low pixel count by today's standard and they have been used A4 in magazines.

    Camera marketing staff find it much easier to talk pixel count than to tell the man in the street about noise reduction or shutter reaction. In my view that is what drives the industry and, in my view again, to our detriment.

    Only this morning my dentist was asking what I though of the Nokia phone with its forty something pixel count. As soon as I moved the conversation to ease of use and speed of shutter button his conversation came to a standstill.

    Who the heck wants a forty something pixel shot if the shutter has clicked the major part of a second later than you intended? But that sells Nokias!

    Tony

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonygamble View Post
    How big do you guys print your stuff?

    Tony
    I have a photo taken with the GH2 and 7-14mm touring trade fairs as a background wall at the moment. The print is around 300 x 250 cm. The client complains that he can't read what it says in fine print on the machine parts, but his customers are very impressed

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    but his customers are very impressed
    And so would I be. That is a big print.

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    I have been waiting for several years, for a camera like this, but perhaps, not this one. My first thoughts, after seeing pictures were - the EVF sure sticks out a long way and why did they have to make it tilt, if the LCD tilts the same exact way?

    I've read a couple hands on impressions, that mentioned the EVF sort of catches on things. I wish they would have just did something like the Fuji XE1, instead of trying to be fancy, because I think they got so fancy that I'm not really interested anymore. I do like my new G6 though, with an all black 14 2.5. Maybe it's the "one" I've been waiting for - a mini R9 with a 28 2.5 pancake.

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    You can build ANY camera with ANY viewer, ANY display, 100 milliards of pixels, 10 inch² sensors - and you ALWAYS will find 100 milliards of people saying:

    I have been waiting for several years, for a camera like this, but perhaps, not this one.

    Perhaps they should try a HelloKittyCam ...

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    I have been waiting for several years, for a camera like this, but perhaps, not this one. My first thoughts, after seeing pictures were - the EVF sure sticks out a long way and why did they have to make it tilt, if the LCD tilts the same exact way?

    I've read a couple hands on impressions, that mentioned the EVF sort of catches on things. I wish they would have just did something like the Fuji XE1, instead of trying to be fancy, because I think they got so fancy that I'm not really interested anymore. I do like my new G6 though, with an all black 14 2.5. Maybe it's the "one" I've been waiting for - a mini R9 with a 28 2.5 pancake.
    The same was true of the viewfinder on the L1, and on the G1: they stuck a good way out the back of the camera. Having used both those cameras extensively for several years, I loved it: it made it a LOT easier to get my glasses right up to the viewfinder without smashing my nose into the back of the camera so I could see the whole EVF display. Never got caught on anything for me. And the tilting feature ... Absolutely excellent. So useful on a copy stand, when you're trying to shoot at a low angle in bright sunlight, etc.

    As said before, any camera they make will have some people grousing. I don't know why, just seems to be the preferred activity of the current milieu.

    The G6 does look nice too, and the resemblance to an R9 is quite clear. But the GX7 is closer to my personal preferences... ;-)

    Godfrey

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by hot View Post
    You can build ANY camera with ANY viewer, ANY display, 100 milliards of pixels, 10 inch² sensors - and you ALWAYS will find 100 milliards of people saying:

    I have been waiting for several years, for a camera like this, but perhaps, not this one.

    Perhaps they should try a HelloKittyCam ...
    Man, I don't want a HelloKittyCam. You have to admit, if they had kept it simple like a Fuji XE1, it would have been exactly what most of us had been waiting for. Now, it's just another compromise. Simplicity in design is was makes the rangefinder type camera so attractive, but Panasonic just doesn't get it. Sort of like they don't get that most people like black bodies, I guess.

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    Man, I don't want a HelloKittyCam. You have to admit, if they had kept it simple like a Fuji XE1, it would have been exactly what most of us had been waiting for. Now, it's just another compromise. Simplicity in design is was makes the rangefinder type camera so attractive, but Panasonic just doesn't get it. Sort of like they don't get that most people like black bodies, I guess.
    Speak for yourself. The GX7 is pretty much exactly what I've been hoping for in the Micro-FourThirds line. It's not a rangefinder camera at all, neither are the Fuji X cameras. My M9 is a rangefinder camera ... there's a world of difference between that and any TTL electronic camera.

    G
    Last edited by Godfrey; 6th August 2013 at 19:45.
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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    I'd venture, by the very act of posting, that he *is* speaking for himself.

    But he he did also say the evil Fuji word.

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    Man, I don't want a HelloKittyCam. You have to admit, if they had kept it simple like a Fuji XE1, it would have been exactly what most of us had been waiting for. Now, it's just another compromise. Simplicity in design is was makes the rangefinder type camera so attractive, but Panasonic just doesn't get it. Sort of like they don't get that most people like black bodies, I guess.
    To some of us, the tilting viewfinder is an excellent addition. I've been wondering why nobody else have done that after Minolta disappeared. The A2 was really one of the greatest cameras around.

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    I'd venture, by the very act of posting, that he *is* speaking for himself.

    But he he did also say the evil Fuji word.
    Nope, he claims to be speaking for "most of us"

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    You guys are right, I guess I'm the only one that wanted a simple, XE1 style M43 body and quite frankly, you've made me ashamed of myself, for wanting such a silly thing. Silly me.

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Your error was mentioning Fuji. If you had said "You have to admit, if they had kept it simple, it would have been exactly what most of us had been waiting for" then there would not have been any blowback.

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    You guys are right, I guess I'm the only one that wanted a simple, XE1 style M43 body and quite frankly, you've made me ashamed of myself, for wanting such a silly thing. Silly me.
    It sounds like the G6 is what you want. Why carp about the design of the GX7?
    Or, given Panasonic's model proliferation, if the GX7 sells well, just wait for the GX6 ... a simplified model with fewer features. ;-)
    Minolta did the same with the A2 ... their next model elided the tilting viewfinder to reduce cost.

    G

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Yes, and thanks Robert. I haven't posted on forums much in the past few years, so I guess I forgot, that you can't say what you really feel, without repercussions.

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Soooo, batteries for GX7 arrived
    PATONAs are full okay.

    Now I need a gooood dealer for GX7 ... hmmm, noooo preorder - I am not crazy!




    Haha, pleading for 10x price ... Lumix batteries "Made in China"

    Weltweit jährlich ca. 30-40 Fälle von explodierten Nicht-Original Akkus

    Akkus minderer Qualität enthalten im Gegensatz zu den original Panasonic Lithium-Ionen Akkus oftmals
    keine Schutzvorrichtungen. Bei Verwendung entsprechender Akkus kann es zum einen zu Überhitzung,
    Auslaufen oder Explosionen kommen, zum anderen aber auch zu Schädigungen an den jeweils
    verwendeten Geräten. Im schlimmsten Fall sogar zu Verletzungen des Anwenders (z.B. Verbrennungen).

    Die Hauptursache für derartige Vorfälle sind Kurzschlüsse in der Akku-Zelle. Die Mehrheit der Kurzschlüsse
    wird durch Außeneinflüsse (z.B. fallenlassen des Gerätes) hervorgerufen, die die Funktionalität der schlecht
    verarbeiteten Akkus gefährden.


    Panasonic analysiert jeden einzelnen berichteten Fall

    Panasonic analysiert JEDEN EINZELNEN berichteten Fall von explodierenden Lithium-Ionen Akkus.
    In ALLEN bisher bekannten Fällen von explodierten Akkus handelte es sich nachweislich um Nicht-Original
    Akkus (entweder Fremdanbieter oder Fälschung), deren Schutzfunktionen nicht den internationalen Standards
    entsprachen. Panasonic empfiehlt daher ausdrücklich die Verwendung von Original Panasonic Lithium-Ionen Akkus.

    Panasonic weist ausdrücklich darauf hin, dass die Verwendung von Akkus minderer Qualität zu Sach- bzw.
    Personenschäden führen kann. Panasonic übernimmt keine Haftung für Schäden jeder Art, die durch die
    Verwendung von Nicht-Panasonic Li-Ionen Akkus entstanden sind.





  34. #84
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    You guys are right, I guess I'm the only one that wanted a simple, XE1 style M43 body and quite frankly, you've made me ashamed of myself, for wanting such a silly thing. Silly me.
    You are entitled to say what you want, but speak on behalf of yourself, not "most of us". Also, if you think the X-E1 is a better camera, it might be a good idea to buy that one instead of complaining about the Panasonic.
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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    Yes, and thanks Robert. I haven't posted on forums much in the past few years, so I guess I forgot, that you can't say what you really feel, without repercussions.
    Big repercussion :: people disagree with your point of view. Sheesh.

    G

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    To be honest, it feels like I'm in the midst of a group of tag teaming, playground bullies, around here. I've spent enough money on Panasonic cameras over the past few years, to voice an opinion about it, without having to be told to go buy something else, or get hello kitty cam or be told that I don't know what a rangefinder and a rangefinder like camera is or that I'm carping. Sheesh.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    To be honest, it feels like I'm in the midst of a group of tag teaming, playground bullies, around here. I've spent enough money on Panasonic cameras over the past few years, to voice an opinion about it, without having to be told to go buy something else, or get hello kitty cam or be told that I don't know what a rangefinder and a rangefinder like camera is or that I'm carping. Sheesh.
    I often feel the very same here in my country .
    "Why didn't you buy this or this camera" ? ? ?
    I have decided to get a LUMIX G1 many years ago , and I did not regret that . I don't let others or even dealers tyrannize me any more .
    Pixel peepers and pedants will never be happy with any camera, they will always find something to moan about .
    But those are the people which always have quick suggestions .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  38. #88
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Clay, you should know that many more people read these posts than dare to speak up. I can't see any need for friction here - how hard is it to allow others to voice a personal opinion?

    I can remember, many years ago reflecting that getdpi felt like an oasis of positivity, and to be fair that's still the way it is for so many old friends knocking around here.

    Be kind :-)

    Brian
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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    To be honest, it feels like I'm in the midst of a group of tag teaming, playground bullies, around here. I've spent enough money on Panasonic cameras over the past few years, to voice an opinion about it, without having to be told to go buy something else, or get hello kitty cam or be told that I don't know what a rangefinder and a rangefinder like camera is or that I'm carping. Sheesh.
    I said what Jurgen said, 'Speak for yourself, you're not speaking for me.' I simply don't like it when people express their own desires as representing mine.

    You can dis the GX7 any time you want. But don't state it in a way that implies you're echoing other folks' likes and dislikes, that's all. It's rude.

    G

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    So someone says "most of us" and people get bent out of shape?

    Quite the friendly forum.

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    Angry Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    So someone says "most of us" and people get bent out of shape?

    Quite the friendly forum.
    Amen to that. It wasn't always like this, back when Guy first started this forum, with mostly FM people, it was very friendly around here, then people from DPR started showing up and brought their crabbiness with them and well, sadly, I don't hang out here much anymore.

  42. #92
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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    I'd venture to say that the 'most of us' comment is absolutely spot-on, whether some here will admit it or not. Most enthusiasts I know desire easy to use cameras with design simplicity. And enthusiasts are the very people who hang out in forums.

    And it's not rude at all to express one's opinion. Certainly not like the 'snore' comments directed at me (since deleted by mods) in threads past by certain former DPR posters.

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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Generally, this forum is a friendly place. But based on my observation, whenever a certain individual gets involved into a "discussion", things quickly deteriorate into a pissing contest.

  44. #94
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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    It is not good to deviate an otherwise very legitimate and useful OP topic into a personal slanging match. Very bad form
    Cheers, Dave
    www.simmondsphotography.com

  45. #95
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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    I'd venture to say that the 'most of us' comment is absolutely spot-on, whether some here will admit it or not. Most enthusiasts I know desire easy to use cameras with design simplicity. And enthusiasts are the very people who hang out in forums.
    Most enthusiasts I know, including those on this forum, have too many cameras, complex ones as well as simple, functional ones. Many (most?) claim (me included ) that they prefer the simple ones. Maybe that's true, but we can be reasonably sure that Panasonic knows better than any of us what sells.

    Most of use have little or no idea what camera most of us will buy next though. Except Louis XIV of course, since he claimed to represent all of us (L'Etat, c'est moi) (mostly the French, of course, which is not most of us and doesn't include me either, so he's probably off topic as well), but I believe he's dead.



    I do mean that those looking for a simpler, more functional camera would probably be better off with a Fuji. No offense meant. I own several, although unfortunately none of the recent models, and they are all real photographers' cameras, while my Panasonics are all (except the L1) first and foremost tools of convenience.
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 8th August 2013 at 02:00.

  46. #96
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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    Generally, this forum is a friendly place. But based on my observation, whenever a certain individual gets involved into a "discussion", things quickly deteriorate into a pissing contest.
    Pleeeease, no self-accusation !

  47. #97
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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Hi There
    Well - I think the G7 looks great . . . except . . . . that I still think the OMD has a lot going for it - admittedly it's a little taller, but it's thinner, narrower and lighter than the G7, it's weather sealed, and it has really killer IBIS - and it's cheaper.

    Added to which I still think the Olympus cameras feel like cameras. but of course, that's just me.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

  48. #98
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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    This



    is a camera
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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Most enthusiasts I know, including those on this forum, have too many cameras, complex ones as well as simple, functional ones. Many (most?) claim (me included ) that they prefer the simple ones. Maybe that's true, but we can be reasonably sure that Panasonic knows better than any of us what sells.

    Most of use have little or no idea what camera most of us will buy next though. Except Louis XIV of course, since he claimed to represent all of us (L'Etat, c'est moi) (mostly the French, of course, which is not most of us and doesn't include me either, so he's probably off topic as well), but I believe he's dead.



    I do mean that those looking for a simpler, more functional camera would probably be better off with a Fuji. No offense meant. I own several, although unfortunately none of the recent models, and they are all real photographers' cameras, while my Panasonics are all (except the L1) first and foremost tools of convenience.
    I disagree. I think many of the enthusiasts, have been asking for years like maybe 10 or 12, on the forums, for a return to OM1/FM2 type and size cameras as well as small affordable rangefinder type bodies. Well, all the sudden the OMD, Fuji x100,100s, Xpro1 and XE1 come out and they sell like hot cakes. It only took the camera makers 10 years to figure out what a lot of us had known all along. So, no, I don't for a minute, think any of the electronics companies have a clue, most of the time. People in large corporations are still just people, they are not gods and to treat them as such thinking they know everything, only makes us into idiots.

  50. #100
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    Re: GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    I disagree. I think many of the enthusiasts, have been asking for years like maybe 10 or 12, on the forums, for a return to OM1/FM2 type and size cameras as well as small affordable rangefinder type bodies. Well, all the sudden the OMD, Fuji x100,100s, Xpro1 and XE1 come out and they sell like hot cakes. It only took the camera makers 10 years to figure out what a lot of us had known all along. So, no, I don't for a minute, think any of the electronics companies have a clue, most of the time. People in large corporations are still just people, they are not gods and to treat them as such thinking they know everything, only makes us into idiots.
    Fully agree, plus we should keep in mind that decision makers in large corporations like Panasonic especially are NO PHOTOGRAPHERS in general. And so it takes even longer to iterate to a useable model for a photographer.

    Having said that - I have the feeling the GX7 is coming pretty close to an ideal photographic tool - actually first time for Panasonic! We only can judge once the camera is really out and can be tested through its paces, but at least it looks very promising this time.

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