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Thread: G1 major nit...

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Unhappy G1 major nit...

    Namely EVF refresh lag (Unless I missed a setting memo) ...

    If you try to shoot s string of shots following action, the EVF freezes for about a second as it does the card write, which is akin to the finder blacking out for that long. This of course makes tracking fast action all but impossible. On the upside, you can usually get one good grab on the first image, and AF can easily keep up, but you then need to re-acquire a moving subject for follow up frames. With a wide lens this isn't too tough, but with the 45-200 beyond about 150 it definitely gets challenging.

    Are there any settings that get around this? Review and review hold shut off when you are in continuous mode, switching to jpeg only doesn't help. I think we need a FW update that keeps the EVF in live view mode at all times...
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Namely EVF refresh lag (Unless I missed a setting memo) ...

    If you try to shoot s string of shots following action, the EVF freezes for about a second as it does the card write, which is akin to the finder blacking out for that long. This of course makes tracking fast action all but impossible. On the upside, you can usually get one good grab on the first image, and AF can easily keep up, but you then need to re-acquire a moving subject for follow up frames. With a wide lens this isn't too tough, but with the 45-200 beyond about 150 it definitely gets challenging.

    Are there any settings that get around this? Review and review hold shut off when you are in continuous mode, switching to jpeg only doesn't help. I think we need a FW update that keeps the EVF in live view mode at all times...

    Agree its a real problem, i have another gripe too, you cant do a bracketed shot without holding the shutter button down for all seven shots, which leads to slight movement between shots even on a tripod, thought the answer would be to set the self timer but that wont work because the selection switch for self timer and auto bracket are on the same lever. seems the answer is a remote shutter release which with a bit of luck is on its way as we speak.


    Mark.

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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Namely EVF refresh lag (Unless I missed a setting memo) ...

    If you try to shoot s string of shots following action, the EVF freezes for about a second as it does the card write, which is akin to the finder blacking out for that long. This of course makes tracking fast action all but impossible. On the upside, you can usually get one good grab on the first image, and AF can easily keep up, but you then need to re-acquire a moving subject for follow up frames. With a wide lens this isn't too tough, but with the 45-200 beyond about 150 it definitely gets challenging.

    Are there any settings that get around this? Review and review hold shut off when you are in continuous mode, switching to jpeg only doesn't help. I think we need a FW update that keeps the EVF in live view mode at all times...
    Jack, which focus method are you using? I believe if you use the focus tracking and bang out a couple of shots the camera itself is still following the moving object and you can get more than one frame. At DPReview there are some birders that are working with the G1 that need to track the flight. One actually lives right near you!

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...&q=bif+g1&qf=m

    This poster John Reed is the person in your area....

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=30401841

    An excerpt:

    Today, using tips from the Forum, I was able to handle the AF Tracking a little better, and gained some confidence in using it. I almost think if you hold off tapping the button until you're pointing at the bird of interest and then just mash the shutter, you'll get decent tracking results. As for "hit rate," that is, % of birds in focus vs. out of focus, as compared to my experience with Red Dot Sight work on my various FZs, the AF Tracking definitely improves things, I'd say from less than 50% "keeper" images to maybe 75% or so. I'd like the EVF to return to the subject just a bit quicker after each shot in the sequence, but at least it's possible to track flying subjects without losing acquisition. Time will tell whether Swallows can be captured (the hardest birds IMO), but I think the rig makes a pretty good showing for my purposes. What do you think?

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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1000 View Post
    Agree its a real problem, i have another gripe too, you cant do a bracketed shot without holding the shutter button down for all seven shots, which leads to slight movement between shots even on a tripod, thought the answer would be to set the self timer but that wont work because the selection switch for self timer and auto bracket are on the same lever. seems the answer is a remote shutter release which with a bit of luck is on its way as we speak.


    Mark.
    Mark,
    I've ordered the cable release from Panny and I will let you know how well that works with bracketing.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Terry, the problem isn't the camera being able to keep up AF wise, it's me as the photographer being able to see the action via the EVF and keep the framing right. IOW it's the same as the EVF going black for say a second after each shot, so you "lose" the subject after the first snap, especially with a long lens...
    Jack
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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Mark,

    Will the three frame self-timer mode work in conjunction with the 3 shot bracketing? I have not tried it but it might do it ???
    Jack
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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Terry, the problem isn't the camera being able to keep up AF wise, it's me as the photographer being able to see the action via the EVF and keep the framing right. IOW it's the same as the EVF going black for say a second after each shot, so you "lose" the subject after the first snap, especially with a long lens...
    I guess what I was saying is if your subject isn't taking up the full frame and they move within where you are, the camera will still capture them and have them in focus. You just don't see it to move along with it. So, yes, I can see your frustration but....you can probably get more than one shot if you don't let the viewfinder be your limitation.

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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Mark,

    Will the three frame self-timer mode work in conjunction with the 3 shot bracketing? I have not tried it but it might do it ???
    No, because you cant select self timer and bracketing together as the lever can only make a single selection, does that make sense, also whats the point of that self timer 3 shot mode, it just takes three shots at the same settings.



    Mark.

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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1000 View Post
    No, because you cant select self timer and bracketing together as the lever can only make a single selection, does that make sense, also whats the point of that self timer 3 shot mode, it just takes three shots at the same settings.



    Mark.
    Duh, of course it makes sense -- I am an idiot

    As re the 3 frame ST mode, I think the advantage is just convenience --- you get three shots with one set-up to overcome blinks or people not looking at the camera, etc, so you don't have to keep running back to the camera to do "another shot"...
    Jack
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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Duh, of course it makes sense -- I am an idiot

    As re the 3 frame ST mode, I think the advantage is just convenience --- you get three shots with one set-up to overcome blinks or people not looking at the camera, etc, so you don't have to keep running back to the camera to do "another shot"...

    Sorry i didn't mean to infer you were an idiot Jack, please except my sincerest apology.

    Mark.

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    Re: G1 major nit...

    FWIW I have the remote and it does work well for bracketing. I just wish the settings for bracketing were a little more flexible. But it does work.

    Bill

  12. #12
    olyinaz
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    Re: G1 major nit...

    It seems a bit of a kludge but I wonder if one of those Voightlander viewfinders that sits in the flash shoe would work well for framing whilst tracking birds in flight? Once you've got it well aligned with the lens you could trust the camera to get the AF right and use the optical VF for framing.

    I've little RF experience and no experience with one of those VFs (only seen pictures of them) so I apologize in advance if this is a hair brained idea - just thinking out loud.

    Cheers,
    Oly

  13. #13
    dwright
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    Re: G1 major nit...

    "..but I wonder if one of those Voightlander viewfinders that sits in the flash shoe would work well for framing.."

    I just tried this with a 35mm Voightlander Kontur and also a Leica 50mm clip-on. Alignment is very good but the field of view is, of course, fixed.

    The Kontur has a useful small black central spot which assists aiming.


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    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Thanks for posting about this Jack. I live close to a lake with herons, geese, swans, hawks, beavers, and the occasional eagle. I was thinking of this combination for my wildlife purposes, but your post helped me decide to pick up a used Tamron 200-500 for Nikon instead. It was a tough call, because I won't have image stabilization, plus the G1 kit is smaller, lighter, and sharper.

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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1000 View Post
    Sorry i didn't mean to infer you were an idiot Jack, please except my sincerest apology.

    Mark.
    You didn't infer that at all, *I* did -- -- so no need to apologize or feel bad at all!
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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    Thanks for posting about this Jack. I live close to a lake with herons, geese, swans, hawks, beavers, and the occasional eagle. I was thinking of this combination for my wildlife purposes, but your post helped me decide to pick up a used Tamron 200-500 for Nikon instead. It was a tough call, because I won't have image stabilization, plus the G1 kit is smaller, lighter, and sharper.
    Why I wanted to get it out there ASAP Amin, definitely NOT a good solution for active sports, wildlife/birding or event work. Truly an unfortunate oversight. Hopefully they can address this in a firmware update; we need an option for continuous live view without any image review hangs -- are you listening Panasonic?
    Jack
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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Why I wanted to get it out there ASAP Amin, definitely NOT a good solution for active sports, wildlife/birding or event work. Truly an unfortunate oversight. Hopefully they can address this in a firmware update; we need an option for continuous live view without any image review hangs -- are you listening Panasonic?
    Just curious what you have the image review set at. Have you tried setting it to none?

  18. #18
    Amon
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    Post Re: G1 major nit...

    I am not sure I can help, but recently, I discover that it's possible to not have to wait the live image to get back : just press the shutter button quickly after a photo is taken and the review image is replaced with the live image. That way, the idle time is reduced dramatically. Because, the recording continue in background, the number of photos, the quality (raw or jpg) and the speed of the card, are important variables.

    BTW, it's possible to press the shutter button to get off the menus.

    P.S.: I have seen in many reviews that the idle time is about 8/10 of a second, IMHO it's must be added this is obtained after 5 or 6 fast shooting images.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Just curious what you have the image review set at. Have you tried setting it to none?
    Yes, but it already auto-defaults to none in burst capture mode
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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Amon View Post

    P.S.: I have seen in many reviews that the idle time is about 8/10 of a second, IMHO it's must be added this is obtained after 5 or 6 fast shooting images.
    It will capture 3 or 4 frames before the first one un-freezes from the EVF -- very frustrating when you are (trying to) shooting a burst.
    Jack
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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Yes, but it already auto-defaults to none in burst capture mode
    OK my turn for a duh....I reset mine when not in burst and didn't realize that it is grayed out as soon as you go into burst mode.

  22. #22
    Amon
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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Yes, you are right. After 4 frames, the wait time is frustrating. I was too much optimistic.

  23. #23
    olyinaz
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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Quote Originally Posted by dwright View Post
    "..but I wonder if one of those Voightlander viewfinders that sits in the flash shoe would work well for framing.."

    I just tried this with a 35mm Voightlander Kontur and also a Leica 50mm clip-on. Alignment is very good but the field of view is, of course, fixed.

    The Kontur has a useful small black central spot which assists aiming.

    Those are so small/light that I'd certainly want to give it a try!

    Cheers,
    Oly

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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Interesting, my Fuji Bridgecam, the S6000fd, has burst mode. Tried 'top 3' and it shot three very quickly, the LCD/EVF freezes with preview for each for about 1/10 sec. The image movement no longer flows but is staccato fashion. So we know it can be different. BTW this is one reason bridgecams are not ideal action cameras

  25. #25
    Bhakti-rider
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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Jack, if it doesn't go without saying that you would, if you learn anything from Panasonic about that viewfinder issue, please start a new thread to share that with other G1 owners...

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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhakti-rider View Post
    Jack, if it doesn't go without saying that you would, if you learn anything from Panasonic about that viewfinder issue, please start a new thread to share that with other G1 owners...
    I certainly will, but at present I have ZERO connections to anybody at Panasonic...
    Jack
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  27. #27
    marknorton
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    Re: G1 major nit...

    The issue I think is that it's not possible for the camera to provide live view while a captured image is being read out of the sensor so that in continuous mode, less and less time is available to display the live-view image. Once you run out of buffer space, everything is gated by card write speed.

    For single shot mode, switch off auto-review completely and the delay before you get the viewfinder back is quite short. Not D3 short, of course, but the body is, say, 1/10 of the price so what is it reasonable to expect?

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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Quote Originally Posted by marknorton View Post
    The issue I think is that it's not possible for the camera to provide live view while a captured image is being read out of the sensor so that in continuous mode, less and less time is available to display the live-view image. Once you run out of buffer space, everything is gated by card write speed.

    For single shot mode, switch off auto-review completely and the delay before you get the viewfinder back is quite short. Not D3 short, of course, but the body is, say, 1/10 of the price so what is it reasonable to expect?
    What Mark said is sorta the point I was making with my post here about my Fuji, I suspect that due to the nature of the EVF/LCD, EVIL or Bridgecamera, this will be an issue with any/all of them. Of course in shooting video this does not happen, if the resolution gets good enough on the GHD perhaps a video capture might work well in these situations?
    Last edited by Lili; 4th January 2009 at 08:09.

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    Re: G1 major nit...

    Well Panasonic folks read the forums and there have been enough links from DPReview to getdpi that I would not be surprised if they have seen the G1 discussions here as well....

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ads+forum&qf=m

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