GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

[raist3d]

To gain customer recognition, I just bring this

Haha

If Panasonic had a way to attach a portrait attachment to the GX7, it would work too, but my guess is that style of camera does not make the company consider it an option.

- Ricardo

PS: When I shot weddings with my e-420, having the big flash (FL50) and the longer lens (14-54 or 50-200) really "pumped it up."

 

[raist3d]

Well, I still find it rather odd to be comparing the two cameras?

Sure, they use the same lenses and have the same size sensor.
The image quality won't be that different
I'm sure they both focus quite fast enough . . . unless you want tracking focus.

But if you're going to use it for professional still use, I wouldn't have thought the GX7 would last for 10 minutes (especially in the rain or under a tap )

- and if you want a quality small compact camera with excellent video then the E-M1 certainly isn't it.

There have been a lot of people comparing the Leica M(240) with the Sony RX-1

You should ask Jorgen. All I am saying is that it all depends what you are looking for. Also a pro camera does not have to be necessarily weather sealed- there is definitively a lot of pro work made without weather sealed cameras. Of course, if where you are going to be working is raining every half hour, it would be very convenient to have a weather sealed one.

- Ricardo

 

[raist3d]

HI Vivek
I wouldn't do it with an E-M1 either, but I bet the Leica would do just as well. (incidentally, it was this video that prompted my response).


. . . . I have had the M in torrential rain, and not covered, on a number of occasions, without issue.

The better question is- how much of the life of the camera you reduce doing that? Zack Arias I think it was had a review of a Fuji X100S where the camera went through rain (note: not 100% it was him). and "it still worked fine." Well...

Sure. It *could still work fine* but that doesn't mean it's *the right thing to do* for a camera not rated as weather sealed. It may turn on but you may get oxidation in key components within two years, etc.

I keep reading these wonderful non-weather sealed rated cameras performances under the rain and I wonder if anyone is tacking their usable life well

- Ricardo

 

[raist3d]

Tried the LX7 today. Wonderful camera, and feels much more compact than the E-M1. But... I need the E-M1 first, and I can just as well start selling off my Nikon gear. It won't see any use when the Olympus arrives anyway. The Panasonic will probably lose value fast so picking up one for 50-60% of the current price should be possible in less than six months, unless I simply keep the GH2 for backup.

Interestingly, my dealer told me that he only has pre-orders for around 15 cameras, as opposed to more than 50 when the Fuji X-Pro1 was launched. There are probably too many users around who are more than happy with their E-M5 cameras, and many who feel that they don't really need this upgrade. In many ways, it's closer to a Nikon D4 than to the smaller Olympus.

These are different markets. The XPro1 was aimed at a specific market and had the unique selling proposition of the (still only) hybrid view finder- no compromises in OVF vs EVF.

The EM1 is not the mainstream or what has been the mainstream m4/3rds market, so many will view it as too expensive (right or not), you get the 4/3rds lens owner (very small market at this point) that wants the body, and the semi pro market in which you need to create/add people that would buy from the other brands.

As a quick example-check the size of the EM1 vs a K-5iis. Not that much difference. Not that the K-5iis has a "huge market" but then consider that the market the Em1 is competing has the other brands with other models. Anyone that already has lenses will wonder why switch.

There's then the "ok I had a full frame but I am tired of lugging big zooms/heavy lenses" which may warm up more to it, but how big is that market? (not saying it's small, just wonder how big it really is).

Then the guys that just got the EM5 as you said.... seems a bit expected honestly.

- Ricardo

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Well, I still find it rather odd to be comparing the two cameras?

And now there are three:
- E-M1 for photo
- GH3 for video
- GX7 that does both reasonably well and is easier for travel and whenever I need something that goes into a briefcase.

The cheap GH3 changed the equation completely, and I see the above combination as better than I could ever have hoped for. Kinder Egg Photography

 

[jonoslack]

The better question is- how much of the life of the camera you reduce doing that? Zack Arias I think it was had a review of a Fuji X100S where the camera went through rain (note: not 100% it was him). and "it still worked fine." Well...

Sure. It *could still work fine* but that doesn't mean it's *the right thing to do* for a camera not rated as weather sealed. It may turn on but you may get oxidation in key components within two years, etc.

I keep reading these wonderful non-weather sealed rated cameras performances under the rain and I wonder if anyone is tacking their usable life well

- Ricardo

HI Ricardo

The M is rated as weather sealed - otherwise I would agree with you.

all the best

 

[drofnad]

Tried the LX7 today. Wonderful camera, and feels much more compact than the E-M1.

And that belongs in another (sub-)forum!
All these "X"s & "7"s --the vogue number--
make tracking confusing (esp. in sequence
to "GX1", where to some minds, it was the
"X" succeeding the "F". ).

Ming Thien, who likes/owns the Olys, does
also like the compact LX7.

-d

 

[JBurnett]

Hmmm. I wonder if there will be a G7 with GX7 goodies (IBIS) and a G6-styled body? That's pretty much what I was hoping the G2 would have been.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

And that belongs in another (sub-)forum!
All these "X"s & "7"s --the vogue number--
make tracking confusing (esp. in sequence
to "GX1", where to some minds, it was the
"X" succeeding the "F". ).

Ming Thien, who likes/owns the Olys, does
also like the compact LX7.

-d

Ah yes, I do need more sleep... :sleep006:

 

[raist3d]

HI Ricardo

The M is rated as weather sealed - otherwise I would agree with you.

all the best

Oh the Leica M is rated as weather sealed? That I didn't know. Didn't know Leica had body and weather sealed lenses.

- Ricardo

 

[jonoslack]

Oh the Leica M is rated as weather sealed? That I didn't know. Didn't know Leica had body and weather sealed lenses.

- Ricardo

The lenses aren't rated as weather sealed - but of course, they've been used in dreadful conditions for decades on film cameras and have no electronics. The lens mount is quite good enough to stop water getting in there . . .

At any rate - works for me (and I have tested it)

 

[raist3d]

The lenses aren't rated as weather sealed - but of course, they've been used in dreadful conditions for decades on film cameras and have no electronics. The lens mount is quite good enough to stop water getting in there . . .

At any rate - works for me (and I have tested it)

Well if the lenses are not weather sealed, that's just the weakest link in the system. You do not have a weather sealed system then (said now in general).

Sure, your camera will work just like those other reviewers I mentioned. The question is, by how much the lifespan got reduced.

- Ricardo

 

[raist3d]

So two EM1 owner accounts at dpreview confirm that once lights go darker, 4/3rd lenses focus much slower. I would imagine this probably affects the CDAF/CDAF tf on m4/3rd lenses too.

So if you use an E-3 or E-5 for a wedding during darker times of the day, it doesn't sound like an upgrade if you are playing an EM1, if you intend to use with 4/3rd lenses.

I would still expect m4/3rd lenses to focus reasonably well even if not CDAF, I don't think darker / available light wedding receptions are an issue with S-DAF.

- Ricardo

 

[Brian Mosley]

So two EM1 owner accounts at dpreview confirm that once lights go darker, 4/3rd lenses focus much slower. I would imagine this probably affects the CDAF/CDAF tf on m4/3rd lenses too.

So if you use an E-3 or E-5 for a wedding during darker times of the day, it doesn't sound like an upgrade if you are playing an EM1, if you intend to use with 4/3rd lenses.

I would still expect m4/3rd lenses to focus reasonably well even if not CDAF, I don't think darker / available light wedding receptions are an issue with S-DAF.

- Ricardo

Hi Ricardo,

that sounds a bit contrived... for the vast majority of E-3/E-5 shooters, the E-M1 will be a significant upgrade in terms of speed, image quality and the ability to take the m4/3rds fast primes.

For a wedding photographer, the prospect of using the 45mm f1.8 and 75mm f1.8 will surely be very attractive.

Cheers

Brian

 

[Vivek]

Reality check: Who, in this day and age, would be using E3 or E5 (or 43/ m43) to shoot weddings and expect to get paid? :shocked:

 

[jonoslack]

Well if the lenses are not weather sealed, that's just the weakest link in the system. You do not have a weather sealed system then (said now in general).

Well the tight tolerances and lubrication in Leica lenses means that any water ingress will be very very small - nothing like enough to get into the camera through the lens mount.

Sure, your camera will work just like those other reviewers I mentioned. The question is, by how much the lifespan got reduced.

- Ricardo

This is spurious Ricardo
The question is - can you shoot it in the pouring rain without screwing the electronics.

. . . and if you live in the UK this is a deeply relevant point.

M9 - no
M(240) - yes
E-M1 - yes
GX7 - no

If you're thinking of life expectancy, then you better keep your camera at a constant temperature in a dust free environment with carefully controlled humidity - wear and tear is a different issue altogether.

 

[Godfrey]

Reality check: Who, in this day and age, would be using E3 or E5 (or 43/ m43) to shoot weddings and expect to get paid? :shocked:

Um, I know four wedding pros who use Olympus FourThirds equipment exclusively. And several folks doing event and editorial work. They have only the same difficulties booking work that any pro photographer today has. Two of them are Magnum photographers.

G

 

[Brian Mosley]

You do surprise me Godfrey, but my earlier point stands... I'm sure they would appreciate the enhancements brought by the E-M1, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they already had an m4/3rds body as a backup somewhere already.

Cheers

Brian

 

[Vivek]

Um, I know four wedding pros who use Olympus FourThirds equipment exclusively. And several folks doing event and editorial work. They have only the same difficulties booking work that any pro photographer today has. Two of them are Magnum photographers.

G

Now that the 43rds is no more (no new cameras) are they still using them?!

 

[raist3d]

Now that the 43rds is no more (no new cameras) are they still using them?!

@Brian/Vivek- why should/would anyone upgrade if what they are using works for them? Assuming their E-3 or E-5 does not have back focus issues, it will focus better still with 4/3rd lenses than the EM1.

Why exactly would the E-3/E-5 stop producing good results if they ever did in the hands of a knowledgable photographer which is in the end the person that creates the photograph?

The upgrading game is a big waste of cash if what you have already works well for your needs. Add to that the initial loss in productivity in "getting" the new equipment at an intuitive level.

A pro in particular, would most likely have the mentality of keeping what works vs buying something new.

- Ricardo