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Thread: Less noise from m4/3 ?

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    Less noise from m4/3 ?

    It's a complicated story based on researching a possible alternative to my wife's point and shoot that I could highjack from time to time when I wanted a pocketable camera.

    Not that it ended up suitable (for my wife anyway) I got to looking at the Fuji X100S. I could pocket it - but my wife would never be able to manage it without accidentally pushing all those buttons and ending up with a camera that was no longer point and shoot.

    Looking at one of those comparison pages on DPR I was amazed at how much better the X100S was, at film speeds of 3,200 and 6,400 than anything I could find in the m4/3 range.

    Is there hope around the corner, do you think? If so I'll wait. If not then I am tempted to splurge on the Fuji.

    Tony

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Given that both Olympus and Panasonic have just recently announced new top of the line, best of breed cameras with their latest sensors ... If you're going to wait to get another stop of sensitivity, I think you'll be waiting a good long while.

    {rant}
    I don't buy into the "gotta have absolutely clean ISO 6400 to be usable" meme. I spend a good bit of my photographic time stressing sensors to their limits, using pinholes and zone plates, etc to get something that isn't plastic polished hyperreality. I like photographs with a touch of "something that harbors on the real but isn't exactly" to them. A little noise, a little grain, a bit of smearing blur ... these remind me that I'm recording light, not making perfect miniature simulacra.
    {/rant}

    I'll be happy to show some ISO 6400 and higher photographs from the E-M1 when my camera arrives. Hopefully soon. :-)

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Godfrey

    its worth waiting ...
    I know. I have it already in my hands and the first shootings succesfully done ... The EM1 is wonderful...
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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Thanks Godfrey,

    So, no likely progress for a while then. Maybe the DPR noise comparison gizmo is unfairly favourable to the Fuji X100S anyway.

    Maybe the gizmo is unreliable as it shows the Ricoh GR as being less noisy than my GH2. It is even less noisy than the EM-5.

    I'll be interested to see how your new body behaves.

    I understand your enthusiasm for living with noise. You bring us back to earth. Well done.

    Tony

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Tony, The fact is: real estate wins! There is no delusion about it despite any spin.

    Ricoh GR and Fuji X100s employ an APS-C sensor.

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    As someone who began photography when "pushed" Tri-X was the best on offer, I just pretend that ISO's above 1600 don't exist.
    Best regards,
    John.
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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Vivek.

    I had never realised that (a) the Ricoh GR and the Fuji X100S were using the same sensor and (b) that it is larger than the one in my GH2.

    So the extra 400 UKP one spends on the Fuji instead of the Ricoh is because of the more detailed body and functions. I only shoot RAW so all these jpg tricks are wasted on me.

    And, now doing the reading, I see that the extra size of the sensor is certainly big enough to be material. This explains why the prints that come from my wife's old GR 2 are, up to A3, often indistinguishable from my GH2 prints.

    You have lifted a veil, Vivek.

    Thank you.

    Tony

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    You are welcome, Tony.

    Ricoh's latest GR (quite confusing given their earlier cameras with the same name!) has a larger sensor.

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    V,

    Fascinating. I don't look at ads now I can get advice from folk like you. So I had never realised the GR was so advanced compared to the GR2 we already own. I see the lens has gone from 2.4 to 2.8 - but I presume the superior sensor kills any disadvantage.

    Reading a few APS-C versus M 4/3 blogs with Google I see I am not alone in wondering why the m 4/3 have not spent more on bettering their sensors.

    Tony

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonygamble View Post
    Thanks Godfrey,

    So, no likely progress for a while then. Maybe the DPR noise comparison gizmo is unfairly favourable to the Fuji X100S anyway.

    Maybe the gizmo is unreliable as it shows the Ricoh GR as being less noisy than my GH2. It is even less noisy than the EM-5.

    I'll be interested to see how your new body behaves.

    I understand your enthusiasm for living with noise. You bring us back to earth. Well done.

    Tony
    I never take the gizmos and other review stuff seriously or literally. Most exaggerate minute differences that are truly insignificant, because that's the purpose of most of these so-called comparisons: to find differences.

    I'm looking forward to the new camera ... in the meanwhile, I continue to push through with what I got.


    onwards,
    G
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    Senior Member JMaher's Avatar
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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Tony,

    It's a give and take. I have owned a Fuji X100 and a E-X1 and while you do get better high ISO results on them I get even better ones on my Canon 5D3. However, the Olympus gives you fantastic stabilization and faster focus among other things. As just one isolated example would you rather have an in focus picture that you captured or one with low noise that you missed. This is an extreme but it is a certainly possible.

    Don't get me wrong they are all excellent cameras. They simply each have their strengths. I was unhappy with the slow focus acquisition of the Fuji, you are unhappy with the noise control of the Olympus. I love my Canon 5D3, now if it only weighed half as much and had smaller lenses.

    Jim

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    If that's the ship your camera is on, prepare for a long wait, Godfrey
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/
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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Thanks Jim,

    Good point I should not overlook.

    Tony

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Just an update to say that my wife's Ricoh GR arrived yesterday afternoon and I poached it off her to do some pictures at a function yesterday evening.

    Verdi

    Some are pretty noisy as the camera was working at over 10,000 ASA at times. It also has a brilliant setting where one can select the shutter speed and aperture and the camera picks the appropriate ASA.

    I get the feeling that my GH2 would have not coped as well.

    However, I will certainly think about moving from Panny to Olympus to get IBIS if Panny don't offer it soon. If the sensors are not going to be upgraded for a couple of years, as has been said on this forum, IBIS is the route.

    Tony

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Less noise from m4/3?

    I ordered an Olympus OM-D EM-1 with 12-40 lens a month ago and I haven't heard a thing since

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Glenn, since your em1 is a preorder, will you be getting a choice of a free vertical grip or 4/3 adapter?

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Well, my E-M1 was ordered September 13 and arrived October 11. I guess that little boat can move a bit faster than expected. ;-)

    I'm still learning it, of course, but the out of camera JPEGs at ISO 6400 and even ISO 12800 are pretty darn impressive to my eye. The image stabilization is the best I've used. And the electronic viewfinder is the first EVF that feels like a 35mm SLR ... It competes with my Leicaflex SL for quality of focusing.

    I'm liking it. I did a quick test with an adapted Summicron-R 50mm the other day: it is easy to focus critically without even enabling any of the focusing aids. (And of course it images so beautifully ... like any Leitz lens. :-))

    I don't need less noise than this ... I need more time to use my cameras.

    (I took the MMF-3 mount adapter as my freebie rebate item. I'm waiting for the HLD-7 grip to arrive, but that's not a rebate item in the USA.)

    G

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    Glenn, since your em1 is a preorder, will you be getting a choice of a free vertical grip or 4/3 adapter?
    I'm in UK, so I get the both grip and the adaptor, providing I get the camera before the November 18th claim deadline has passed

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Real, wonder why over here in New Zealand we only get the option of one or the other! Do you think the retail shops are pocketing the other accessory and reselling it!

    I have made my preorder btw EM1 and 12-40mm and free vertical grip

    Hope to have it before November too!

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    As the person who started this thread could I ask that the conversation is returned to the topic of less noise. It helps those who follow on.

    Availability of the EM1 is interesting so why not start another thread to discuss it?

    Tony

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonygamble View Post
    Just an update to say that my wife's Ricoh GR arrived yesterday afternoon and I poached it off her to do some pictures at a function yesterday evening.

    Verdi

    Some are pretty noisy as the camera was working at over 10,000 ASA at times. It also has a brilliant setting where one can select the shutter speed and aperture and the camera picks the appropriate ASA.

    I get the feeling that my GH2 would have not coped as well.

    However, I will certainly think about moving from Panny to Olympus to get IBIS if Panny don't offer it soon. If the sensors are not going to be upgraded for a couple of years, as has been said on this forum, IBIS is the route.

    Tony
    The high ISO images (GR) are quite impressive. The color noise and the color moire can be tackled to some degree using Nik pluggins in the post processing stage.

    I am glad you bumped this thread and I agree that the discussion ought to stay relevant to the topic on hand.

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    Re: Less noise from m4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonygamble View Post
    As the person who started this thread could I ask that the conversation is returned to the topic of less noise. It helps those who follow on.
    Well, the sensors available in the newly released Micro-FourThirds cameras from both Panasonic and Olympus are the quietest, highest sensitivity sensors available in the format to date.

    The only way to improve on what they produce relative to noise is to be sure you are exposing properly with respect to the ISO setting in use, and then processing that raw exposure adroitly so as to minimize noise.

    The only other thing to do is to wait for another generation of sensors to appear, if you're patient/demanding enough. Personally, I find they work pretty well just as they are. :-)

    G

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