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Thread: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

  1. #51
    psurfer
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    Magnified small central portion is KEY, and the only way to go if there is to be any semblance of speed in operation handheld (and any hope the G1 could be taken seriously as a digital RF). You must be able to see the whole frame while focusing. I wrote this the other day in the DPReview thread.

    The method of getting there?- the Fn button's ok, but kind of hard to find with your thumb (I would try adding a glob of epoxy on it and hope it stuck, to differentiate it from the other 4way buttons). Since it's already assignable, that's likely the button w/ best chance for Pana to agree to adding a function on.

    If the film mode button wasn't so flush w/the body, it could be a better choice- either control it w/your thumb, or use index finger, requiring a switch to using your middle finger on the shutter. For me it's still comfortable, and something I'd be willing to do to have a usable MF.

    In either case, it would solve a poorly implemented half-feature currently on the G1. I bought it sight unseen, influenced by a lot of enthusiasm about how easy MF was. It's far from it. I didn't realize that they must have only tried it mounted on tripod.

  2. #52
    psurfer
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    Another thing that would be enormously helpful would be some kind of focus aid (within the magn assist view) for the times in low light when the screen res -esp the EFV- just gets too coarse and contrast-less to focus easily, if at all, even at the highest magn.

    e-split image? e-microprism spot?

  3. #53
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    When you use an AF capable lens like the kit lens one only needs to turn the focusing ring to engage the magnification making it easy; however with older MF lenses the two button sequence is required, not so easy.

    The AF lock button was my other suggestion since you won't be using AF with an MF lens. As I recall you can set this button to AF Lock or Exposure lock or both in the menu. AF lock could be MF engage. When used for two functions it requires a second click to toggle function (if I remember correctly).
    V/r John

  4. #54
    Ranger 9
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    The magnified central area is cool. Could it be moved around, or would it always be in the center, requiring a focus-then-reframe sequence?
    It's just pixels on a display, so I assume they could make it do anything they want.

    Since the G1 already has the ability to move the AF point around, I would think (from my cavalier armchair-engineer perspective) that it wouldn't be difficult to make the "loupe" follow it.

    This combined with Brian's suggested one-push control for magnification would seem to be a pretty hot setup for manual focus operation: position the spot where you want it, toggle it on and off when you need it. If they could add a contrast "peaking" indication (maybe the loupe's rim turns from red to green?) that would be even cooler.

  5. #55
    Super Duper
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    If the loupe is moving around on screen, what if I want to zoom in? Maybe a few steps of zoom until the entire display is magnified (as it works now?)

  6. #56
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    You lost me on that 2nd paragraph John - this needs to be as simple and quick as possible - absolute minimum of shifting hand positions, finding buttons etc... it needs to be integral to the shooting operation, to be seamless.

    I like the inserted focus patch idea - with the ability to position it anywhere on the screen... but still would love to have the fast toggle view option.

    Kind Regards

    Brian

  7. #57
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    The AF lock button was my other suggestion since you won't be using AF with an MF lens. As I recall you can set this button to AF Lock or Exposure lock or both in the menu. AF lock could be MF engage. When used for two functions it requires a second click to toggle function (if I remember correctly).
    I think John's suggestion to use the AF lock button to invoke the toggle is excellent. It's easily reachable with your thumb and it has a ridge on it making it very identifiable by touch only. Use AF lock to toggle it on (in MF mode), then use the shutter button as Brian is suggesting. This makes more sense to me than using the Function button.

    Ciao,

  8. #58
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    The AF/AE Lock button is right under your thumb so if you are using a manual lens the button would be a MF magnify toggle instead of an AF lock since you don't have an AF lens you haven't lost anything. First push turns on MF magnify, second push engages AE lock, third push turns all back off. Only works this way if focus switch set to MF and the lens has no communications with the system, i.e. MF only lenses. Lenses that can communicate with the system can continue to use the focus ring as the switch to magnify or not. I would still want the image patch (prefer a square or rectange to a circle or loop) that can be moved around the image as needed.
    V/r John

  9. #59
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    I would still want the image patch (prefer a square or rectange to a circle or loop) that can be moved around the image as needed.
    John, I agree here. If you are focussing at an non-center point, you want that magnified inset image to appear roughly where it is in the overall image, not dead center.

    Cheers,

  10. #60
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    I agree the AF/AE lock button is the easiest to find, but three presses to cycle through the two functions is clumsy.

    Cheers

    Brian

  11. #61
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    Brian,
    What have you communicated to Panasonic and have you mentioned the threads here and at DPReview?

  12. #62
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    I agree the AF/AE lock button is the easiest to find, but three presses to cycle through the two functions is clumsy.
    Point taken. Perhaps an option for the AF lock button to use it only as the MF mag enable toggle? Personally, I rarely use AE lock, especially for quick shooting.

    Ciao,

  13. #63
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    Terry, I've e-mailed John's initial suggestion and my suggestion - plus links to this thread and my thread on dpreview.

    Personally, I think this thread has had a hugely valuable discussion - I'm confident that Panasonic will take this seriously.

    Kind Regards

    Brian

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    Definitely. Because otherwise Olympus probably will

  15. #65
    Super Moderator Cindy Flood's Avatar
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    Quote Originally Posted by psurfer View Post
    ...snip...

    In either case, it would solve a poorly implemented half-feature currently on the G1. I bought it sight unseen, influenced by a lot of enthusiasm about how easy MF was. It's far from it. I didn't realize that they must have only tried it mounted on tripod.
    I went to the Barrett-Jackson car show yesterday and shot 300 frames with the G1. I used two manual focus M-mount lenses only. I did not use a tripod and I don't see very many that are not spot-on on focus. (The lighting was a PITA so exposure was another matter..some could have used a faster shutter speed.)
    I used the two-press for most of the shots. It can be clumsy, but it does work.
    Here is how I would like to see it work: Left arrow key would still bring up the yellow square and arrow keys would still move it around...just like it is now, but it wouldn't be necessary to invoke the magnification if you didn't want to move the yellow square. (I noticed yesterday that I didn't need to move the focus square on every shot.) Many times it was close enough that my point of focus was still magnified (even if it wasn't exactly over my intended point.) Then one half press would magnify, another half press would magnify more. Full press takes the shot.

  16. #66
    Senior Member peterb's Avatar
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Terry, I've e-mailed John's initial suggestion and my suggestion - plus links to this thread and my thread on dpreview.

    Personally, I think this thread has had a hugely valuable discussion - I'm confident that Panasonic will take this seriously.

    Kind Regards

    Brian
    Judging by the evolution of their products, Panasonic seems to be a pretty thoughtful company who takes suggestions from their users seriously.

    I hope they consider the thoughts in this thread. They are EXCELLENT.

    Peter
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.

  17. #67
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    Quick update - I had a call with Panasonic UK this morning - our discussion and requests are being considered and Panasonic recognise the importance of the most enthusiastic early adopters... who are having a huge amount of fun with our legacy lenses while eagerly awaiting native m4/3rds lens release.

    If and when I get a response to the specific 'fast MF assist mode' of shooting - I will report back here.

    Thanks everyone, for your imaginative and thoughtful suggestions.

    Kind Regards

    Brian

  18. #68
    Senior Member Per Ofverbeck's Avatar
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Quick update - I had a call with Panasonic UK this morning - our discussion and requests are being considered and Panasonic recognise the importance of the most enthusiastic early adopters... who are having a huge amount of fun with our legacy lenses while eagerly awaiting native m4/3rds lens release.

    If and when I get a response to the specific 'fast MF assist mode' of shooting - I will report back here.

    Thanks everyone, for your imaginative and thoughtful suggestions.

    Kind Regards

    Brian
    Good news, Brian! Letīs hope for the best...

    And tell them that we "enthusiastic early adopters" all have HEAPS of money, and are very eager to spend them.....

    I might even consider changing my avatar....

  19. #69
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    Brian:

    Did u also mention to Panasonic of the need to make the control button for the P shift,or exposure compensation into a 2 step process so that any accidental press in of the button would not change the function unless a second button was also pressed?? This would seem to be a good time to add these corrective functions in another firmware upgrade.

    Did your discussions include the idea of just making a central zone of enlargement when in manual focus instead of enlarging
    the entire frame??

    Just my opinion.

    Martin
    Last edited by Martin S; 30th January 2009 at 03:29.

  20. #70
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

    Martin, my discussion was merely to present the discussion in this thread, and the thread on dpreview... and to underline the importance that Panasonic listen to those people who are most enthusiastic about the G1.

    I imagine that the central zone of enlargement will certainly be considered - as it's been recommended throughout this thread.

    Kind Regards

    Brian

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