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Thread: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

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    E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Here is a link to new firmware:

    Olympus - E-M1 - System Cameras ; Micro 4/3 Cameras

    It has a 0 sec delay option for an effective electronic shutter up to 1/320 second.

    However I just installed it, and set it in the menu, but it still 'clicks' the shutter when shooting, so it doesn't actually seem to work even though it is selected in the menu. Has anyone else tried this out? If so, does it work for you.

    I set it to 1/4 sec, and you can clearly hear the first and second click before and after. hmmmm.

    thanks
    Dave

    BTW shutter blur on the E-M1 also on my E-M5 before have been very frustrating for me, so I was happy when I saw this update, but so far I haven't figured out to actually use it.

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    No difference here too, what are we missing ?
    Bart ...

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    I know with some Panasonic cameras if you have electronic shutter set then flash is disabled, and you have to remember to turn it off before using flash.

    So I was wondering if it is in some conflict with another setting, but Olympus doesn't seem to give any info on how this Firmware works for this function. So my assumption is we are missing something, or it isn't working correctly.

    Any suggestions welcome.

    Dave

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Should we switch off IBIS perhaps ?
    Can't imagine that.
    Odd ...
    Bart ...

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveS View Post
    Here is a link to new firmware:

    Olympus - E-M1 - System Cameras ; Micro 4/3 Cameras

    It has a 0 sec delay option for an effective electronic shutter up to 1/320 second.

    However I just installed it, and set it in the menu, but it still 'clicks' the shutter when shooting, so it doesn't actually seem to work even though it is selected in the menu. Has anyone else tried this out? If so, does it work for you.

    I set it to 1/4 sec, and you can clearly hear the first and second click before and after. hmmmm.

    thanks
    Dave

    BTW shutter blur on the E-M1 also on my E-M5 before have been very frustrating for me, so I was happy when I saw this update, but so far I haven't figured out to actually use it.
    The firmware release notes say:

    03/31/2014
    Firmware Version 1.3
    1) Dynamic range has been expanded when using the external mic. The sound level adjustment has been changed to adjust to 21 levels in accordance with this.
    A function to turn the Volume Limiter on and off was added.

    *When it is on, it automatically limits the mic input volume if sound input volume exceeds the designated level.

    2) A 0 second setting has been added to Anti-Shock mode.
    Anti-Shock is not an electronic shutter. It's an adjustable delay intended to allow time for shutter/mirror vibrations to damp. It's been there in all Olympus FT and mFT cameras that I've had since the E-1.

    No Olympus camera I'm familiar with has an all-electronic shutter option at the present time.

    Or have I missed something?

    G

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Hi Godfrey,

    The menu system on the camera now says:

    "When shutter speed is 1/320 or less, the first shutter curtain is switched from mechanical to electronic to reduce blur caused by shutter impact."

    Also there is a screen grab of this now posted on DP Review, so yes, I think it really is an electronic thingy. Really cool, but doesn't work yet for me.

    I also just reset my camera to 'Basic' with all the beeps and annoying features, and it still doesn't go quiet.

    So I think there is more to this yet to figure out.

    Dave

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Interesting. I'll have a look after I get home and update my camera. Thx!

    G

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    I have been shooting some shots, and even though the shutter sound is still fully there (IE electronic does not seem to = quiet first curtain) I do seem to be getting a better hit rate of clear shots, but not fully. IE shooting both with and without the feature turned on I get about 50% clear shots where as before it was more like 1 in 5 were clear at certain speeds and with different lenses.

    Using the 50-200 2.8-3.5 at 200mm (between 1/200 and 1/4000 and also 60mm Macro at 1/80 sec) These used to be awful, now they are somewhat working, or maybe I just had less coffee today.

    Others experience/comments with new feature are welcome.

    all the best,
    Dave

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveS View Post
    I have been shooting some shots, and even though the shutter sound is still fully there (IE electronic does not seem to = quiet first curtain) I do seem to be getting a better hit rate of clear shots, but not fully. IE shooting both with and without the feature turned on I get about 50% clear shots where as before it was more like 1 in 5 were clear at certain speeds and with different lenses.

    Using the 50-200 2.8-3.5 at 200mm (between 1/200 and 1/4000 and also 60mm Macro at 1/80 sec) These used to be awful, now they are somewhat working, or maybe I just had less coffee today.

    Others experience/comments with new feature are welcome.
    I'd like to see some examples of the problem that you're seeing. I don't disbelieve you, I just haven't seen the issue. I have the 50-200 and often use it with the EC-14 teleconverter ... I've yet to see any consistent evidence in my photos that there is some shutter induced blurring with it.

    thx,

    G

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Will do, I usually just delete the bad ones, so I will take some more and try and reproduce it. Usually shows up as slight double image 'up and down' ie not sideways shake, just pure top and bottom blur of a subject. The upper blur is usually slightly less exposed than the lower one. Just out and about right now.

    Dave

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Godfrey - Good news for me - after some checks just now (about 15 minutes) I can not convincingly seem to reproduce the problem, with 0 sec shock on or off. So I am happy with whatever firmware 1.3 seems to have done. The blurry ones I got today could be bad focus lock.

    Just to make sure I wasn't crazy, I scanned the web to see what others are saying, and found this link that shows the type of issue I was having before with apparent shock blur.

    Re: E-M1 Firmware update... V 1.3 today..: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

    (So I am actually happier with the camera at this point, but I still don't understand why 'electronic' first shutter makes a clicking sound, unlike Panasonic which is silent.)

    Anyway will continue using it and see how it goes. I tended to drift away from using the EM5 and EM1 when it was for more critical work. I will try again. (I got way more keepers with the 5DIII and IS lenses, but it is much larger and heavier to carry around)

    Dave

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    You can check it if Anti Shock 0 is set correctly. Switch on SCP and check the drive mode. It should say "Diamond + rectangle ( for single picture drive mode )"

    BTW it is not 0 second delay but 0,03 instead. Thats exactly the time the shutter impulse lasts...
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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    That's good to hear. I can't find anything in any of my image files that shows this problem ... I've searched repeatedly since I first heard of it! ... so I hope I see some other benefit from this new firmware update. I installed it.

    Having done that, my aggravation with Olympus and their idiotic firmware updating scheme is as usual. Where's the detailed information on what was updated? Where are the instructions for using it? Do I have to look through every friggin' command in the camera's menus with Info turned on to find out what I just installed? Why on earth can't I get a spec sheet and instructions for what is new and how to use it BEFORE I install their stuff, and then download it so I can install it at my leisure without having to sit by the camera and computer hoping that my internet connection doesn't glitch in the middle of the process?

    I absolutely despise this part of Olympus ownership. The camera I find terrific, the support in this regard is just plain crap.

    (BTW, Sony is no better. ... )

    G

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveS View Post
    Godfrey - Good news for me - after some checks just now (about 15 minutes) I can not convincingly seem to reproduce the problem, with 0 sec shock on or off. So I am happy with whatever firmware 1.3 seems to have done. The blurry ones I got today could be bad focus lock.

    Just to make sure I wasn't crazy, I scanned the web to see what others are saying, and found this link that shows the type of issue I was having before with apparent shock blur.

    Re: E-M1 Firmware update... V 1.3 today..: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

    (So I am actually happier with the camera at this point, but I still don't understand why 'electronic' first shutter makes a clicking sound, unlike Panasonic which is silent.)

    Anyway will continue using it and see how it goes. I tended to drift away from using the EM5 and EM1 when it was for more critical work. I will try again. (I got way more keepers with the 5DIII and IS lenses, but it is much larger and heavier to carry around)

    Dave

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    There is an extensive discussion about this firmware update on dpreview.
    I found it illuminating.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    There is an extensive discussion about this firmware update on dpreview.
    I found it illuminating.
    Link please?

    Thx!

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    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Great, thank you!

    G

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Hmm. Just went through the threads. They all seem to be saying the same thing over and over again, although the discussion of which modes was interesting. Even most of the supposedly "sharp" images looked blurry to my eye, and my photos don't seem to be that blurry.

    I'll do some testing of my own. :-)
    I'll use the Macro-Elmar 45mm.

    Question is whether to use a tripod or not.

    gods, more equipment testing ... !

    G

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Hmm. Just went through the threads. They all seem to be saying the same thing over and over again, although the discussion of which modes was interesting. Even most of the supposedly "sharp" images looked blurry to my eye, and my photos don't seem to be that blurry.

    I'll do some testing of my own. :-)
    I'll use the Macro-Elmar 45mm.

    Question is whether to use a tripod or not.

    gods, more equipment testing ... !

    G

    Well, I did some testing with the 75-300 II lens at 300 mm, handheld with IBIS.
    To me the images looked pretty sharp, even at ⅛ seconds exposure time, lens wide open.
    Last edited by k-hawinkler; 1st April 2014 at 19:21.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    USing the SCP menu you can select whether you want the reduced shutter shock option or standard option. With the 0 second option, the low and high burst rates are greyed out, so I assume there is no electronic shutter available when firing in burst mode.

    Also I have compared selecting standard (no diamond) shooting vs shutter shock enabled in SCP, and found there is an audible difference between the two modes, but what is interesting is that the normal non diamond mode has a shorter sound for shutter release than with the diamond mode on.
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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    I have been pixel peeping on my E-M1 and E-P5 using good long lenses and detailed scenes, sometimes with tripod, sometimes without, but at distances over 50 meters. Haven't seen the kind of blurring that shows up in the overheated air of DPReview. Since those examples seem to be mostly macro, I would wonder about AF and hand-holding problems confusing the issues. Read Roger Cicala's blog series on amateur lens-testing about a month ago. He plots the scatter of his automated MTF50 analysis for a Canon with telephoto when shot with contrast AF, with phase AF and with repeated manual focusing, camera on tripod, carefully aligned. Repeated MF gives a pretty tight set of results, contrast AF is next, phase AF, for all its speed, seems horrible.

    I have installed firmware 1.3 on both M1 and P5 (yes, P5 got an update, and perhaps M5 as well), and will try them. I agree with Godfrey that Olympus Digital Camera app is far too scary.

    scott

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    I have been pixel peeping on my E-M1 and E-P5 using good long lenses and detailed scenes, sometimes with tripod, sometimes without, but at distances over 50 meters. Haven't seen the kind of blurring that shows up in the overheated air of DPReview. Since those examples seem to be mostly macro, I would wonder about AF and hand-holding problems confusing the issues. Read Roger Cicala's blog series on amateur lens-testing about a month ago. He plots the scatter of his automated MTF50 analysis for a Canon with telephoto when shot with contrast AF, with phase AF and with repeated manual focusing, camera on tripod, carefully aligned. Repeated MF gives a pretty tight set of results, contrast AF is next, phase AF, for all its speed, seems horrible.

    I have installed firmware 1.3 on both M1 and P5 (yes, P5 got an update, and perhaps M5 as well), and will try them. I agree with Godfrey that Olympus Digital Camera app is far too scary.

    scott
    I own an E-M5 and definitely get shutter shock. Not all lenses behave in the same way. The most likely candidate is the wonderful 75mm which I have to shoot at 1/320 sec. at least to be sure that I'm not getting it. This occurs with IBIS on or off. Without IBIS, the 75mm should be ok starting at 1/150 sec. But with IBIS it should be ok three stops earlier at least, aka until 1/30 or 1/25. I have tested things intensively and my results got very blurry from 1/80 up to 1/125-1/180. Lower speeds were surprisingly better, but then my hands are not steady enough to get perfectly acceptable results, but someone with steady hands would get more keepers at 1/15 or 1/25 than at 1/80 or 1/100.

    The first outing with that lens was dreadful.. Almost every shot had double edges and I was just shooting at buildings and front yard across the street, no macro.

    My cure is to have a 1/8th sec. anti shock delay permanently on. Things get better, but not perfect, so the definitive cure when I really want a perfect shot is to avoid those speeds. A pity, since 1/100-1/200 are very useful speeds and should work with IBIS on.

    I don't have problems with shorter focals, like the 12mm or the 25mm, nor with the new 12-40mm zoom. As for the 45mm, I think that I do rather have a bad copy than shutter shock. But it can exhibit the double edges too.

    Now I think that there are quite a lot of sample variation between bodies; it may depends upon how internal screws are tightened or part are glued. Some get lucky, other less so. Combine that with a lot of different shooting styles (some tests seem to show that the problem is less if you hold the camera loosely). Of course if you see the problem you try holding the camera more firmly and may well end up just increasing the problem.

    I do really hope that Olympus offer the same firmware update for the E-M5 since I don't plan to get an E-M1.

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Annna: I'm very happy to see Olympus fixing the shutter shock issue with an electronic shutter option, and I do hope it "trickles down" to the E-M5, too.

    But... Someone I know who has connections with Olympus has said that they only licensed the electronic shutter for the E-M1 (someone else owns the patent). Along with the usual bromide about how they are in business to get you to buy new cameras, not to make your old one better. I hope he's wrong. Another friend uses the Panasonic GX7, and he really likes the electronic shutter. One caveat is that it can cause "stretching" of a fast-moving subject.

    My experience with the E-M5 is similar to yours (though I don't have the 75). I just keep the 1/8 second delay on all the time. This of course limits its usefullness as a "decisive moment" camera--a lot can happen in 1/8 second when people or animals are involved. In low light I may turn the delay off as I'm shooting in the 1/15-1/60 range where the jitters don't happen.

    I'm seriously thinking about shooting a film rangefinder again. No shutter shock there.

    --Peter
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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveS View Post
    Hi Godfrey,

    The menu system on the camera now says:

    "When shutter speed is 1/320 or less, the first shutter curtain is switched from mechanical to electronic to reduce blur caused by shutter impact."
    Hi everyone
    Everyone seems to be testing this at slow shutter speeds, but surely 1/320 or LESS means 1/500th, 1/1000th etc. NOT 1/4, 1/125, 1/250?............

    ...... Or am I being stupid?

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi everyone
    Everyone seems to be testing this at slow shutter speeds, but surely 1/320 or LESS means 1/500th, 1/1000th etc. NOT 1/4, 1/125, 1/250?............

    ...... Or am I being stupid?
    This points out the age-old contradiction of terms ... as shutter speed goes up, exposure time goes down.

    I'm sure that the issues being tested for are of decreasing importance at exposure times shorter than 1/320 sec. So testing at slower shutter speeds is the right thing to do.

    ]'-)

    G

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    So the official instructions talk about reducing "shutter impact," and the complaints have been about blurring. That sounds like they meant to say "slower" shutter speeds. If the problem had been that undoing liveview caused some darkening of the part of the image first uncovered by the focal plane shutter, then you might want to test it at "faster" or "higher" shutter speeds. But I haven't seen the problem yet with 1.1 or 1.3 firmware, so I don't know how to test for it... I don't always assume that a memo in English from a foreign company means exactly what it says.

    scott
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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    This points out the age-old contradiction of terms ... as shutter speed goes up, exposure time goes down.

    I'm sure that the issues being tested for are of decreasing importance at exposure times shorter than 1/320 sec. So testing at slower shutter speeds is the right thing to do.

    ]'-)

    G
    Well, if the shutter shock goes on for 1/1000 second then it will be more relevant in shorter exposures wouldn't you say? On the basis that it will represent the whole of a 1/1000 sec exposure, but only 1/10th of a 1/100 second exposure.

    Of course I'm sure I'm wrong. Just saying, that's all!

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, if the shutter shock goes on for 1/1000 second then it will be more relevant in shorter exposures wouldn't you say? On the basis that it will represent the whole of a 1/1000 sec exposure, but only 1/10th of a 1/100 second exposure.

    Of course I'm sure I'm wrong. Just saying, that's all!
    Didn't shutter shock mainly rear its ugly head for intermediate shutter speeds, say centered around 1/100 s, and long lenses? That's my recollection anyway.

    Also, didn't someone indicate that the delay with the new firmware wasn't 0.0 s but was 0.02 s?
    Last edited by k-hawinkler; 5th April 2014 at 12:48.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Didn't shutter shock mainly rear its ugly head for intermediate shutter speeds, say centered around 1/100 s, and long lenses? That's my recollection anyway.

    Also, did not someone indicate that the delay with the new firmware wasn't 0 s but indeed was 0.02 s?
    I think yor right, but you can see where I was coming from!
    I'll install it later, although it doesn't seem as though it'll change my world!

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Didn't shutter shock mainly rear its ugly head for intermediate shutter speeds, say centered around 1/100 s, and long lenses? That's my recollection anyway.

    Also, did not someone indicate that the delay with the new firmware wasn't 0 s but indeed was 0.02 s?
    According to another source, investigating some German photo forums, the delay is set to .03 seconds:
    Here is how it works.
    The setting of 0 sec. is in reality 0.03 sec. The sequence is thus: close-open-0.03sec delay-exposure-close-open. The sensor is blacked out just for the 0.03 second before the exposure begins. They found that the shutter shock vibrations took place within the first 0.03 sec, so with that minimal delay, the exposure doesn't begin until the vibration has stopped. It is not enough to be noticeable while shooting but enough to get around the problem. Very clever. That also explains why it sounds slightly different. There is just that added 3/100 between the two close-open sequences, so it sounds more like click-click---click-click rather than click-click-click-click.
    The vibration inducing 'shock' is damped out after the first 3/100 sec, then the exposure is made for all shutter settings. For exposures under 1/320 sec, EFCS is also implemented.

    I still haven't seen any evidence of this shutter-shock stuff in my photos.

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I still haven't seen any evidence of this shutter-shock stuff in my photos.

    G
    Thanks for the clarification Godfrey.
    I've not seen it any of my photos either. Rather the contrary I'd say.

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    Re: E-M1 new Electronic Shutter firmware 1.3?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    According to another source, investigating some German photo forums, the delay is set to .03 seconds:


    The vibration inducing 'shock' is damped out after the first 3/100 sec, then the exposure is made for all shutter settings. For exposures under 1/320 sec, EFCS is also implemented.

    I still haven't seen any evidence of this shutter-shock stuff in my photos.

    G

    Many thanks for the correction, Godfrey. Thank you.

    Jono, I actually may have confused the shutter shocks of the A7R and E-M1.
    Reflecting on that I wonder whether Sony couldn't implement a similar solution?
    Last edited by k-hawinkler; 5th April 2014 at 13:29.
    With best regards, K-H.

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