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Thread: A superfast normal on the G1

  1. #51
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    What Peter said is true. The Som-Berthiot 25/0.95, for example, needs to be machined, even to be mounted on the proper adapters (Rabe or MS Opticals).

    This is not a trivial adapter to fabricate, BTW.

  2. #52
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Any idea if a Canon 0.95 c-mount will fit in the cheap adapter? If so - how would I go about ordering one?

    Thanks!

  3. #53
    Senior Member m3photo's Avatar
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    Re: C-Mount Adapter

    Quote Originally Posted by GDI View Post
    Any idea if a Canon 0.95 c-mount will fit in the cheap adapter? If so - how would I go about ordering one?

    Thanks!
    OK, don't know if it will fit what you want to put on it but for $25 I went ahead and ordered one (Postage to Europe is $6 on top, plus 4% Paypal = total of $32.24). Send an email to the guy who makes them. He's just improved the original design and I think from the photos at least, that it's easier to work with.
    E-mail: [email protected]

  4. #54
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    Re: C-Mount Adapter

    Quote Originally Posted by m3photo View Post
    OK, don't know if it will fit what you want to put on it but for $25 I went ahead and ordered one (Postage to Europe is $6 on top, plus 4% Paypal = total of $32.24). Send an email to the guy who makes them. He's just improved the original design and I think from the photos at least, that it's easier to work with.
    E-mail: [email protected]
    Thanks. I did email him - he says:
    The largest diameter is 36.5 mm that is best for infinity location.
    If the diameter is over 36.5 mm , less than 47mm.
    It can fit the adapter,but can not to infinity.
    So it will not reach infinity with my Canon. Maybe the next version released will...

  5. #55
    psurfer
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    We need to clarify some things:

    1) The photo in post #53 above, appears to be a C-ltm adptr -- m3photo, is that what you ordered for $25 +s/h? Or a direct C-to-G1 adptr?

    2) GDI, re post #54, I assume the specs hawkpeng emailed you were for his C-m4/3 adptr, right?

    A needed spec is the depth is that 36.5mm opening?

  6. #56
    Senior Member m3photo's Avatar
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    Re: Adapter Photo

    [QUOTE=psurfer;73974]
    1) The photo in post #53 above, appears to be a C-ltm adptr -- m3photo, is that what you ordered for $25 +s/h? Or a direct C-to-G1 adptr?
    QUOTE]
    I hope it's the newer model the seller is offering, although you're right in suspecting it's an LTM type as there don't seem to be any lugs visible on the rear face, maybe my mistake in copying and pasting the shot, sorry.
    This one is the older model:
    http://jorson.dyndns.org/ognn/attach...nLws6FJN5u.jpg
    By the way, Hawk Peng says that the price for the newer model is $35 - Add postage and 4% PayPal.

  7. #57
    Senior Member m3photo's Avatar
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    Re: Adapter Photo - More

    This is the page I obtained the original image from:
    http://jorson.dyndns.org/ognn/viewth...&extra=&page=7
    Scroll down to the 3rd and 4th shots to see the C-Mount to M4/3 adapter fitted on a Fuji TV lens.
    The first photo I posted seems to be of the front of two styles of the same adapter, hence there being no lugs apparent.
    Please excuse any confusion I may have caused. I'll report back once I have mine with some C-Mount lenses to try out.

  8. #58
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by psurfer View Post
    We need to clarify some things:

    1) The photo in post #53 above, appears to be a C-ltm adptr -- m3photo, is that what you ordered for $25 +s/h? Or a direct C-to-G1 adptr?

    2) GDI, re post #54, I assume the specs hawkpeng emailed you were for his C-m4/3 adptr, right?

    A needed spec is the depth is that 36.5mm opening?

    Yes, that is for the C-mount Micro 4/3. The specs he gave were for the diameter- the fact that larger lenses will fit but not reach infinity must be due to the stepped opening?

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    Senior Member m3photo's Avatar
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    Re: Carl Zeiss Jena Tevidon 25mm 1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by phobus View Post
    Speaking of cheap experiments, I got a C mount adapter from Taiwan, and the Carl Zeiss Jena Tevidon 25mm 1.4

    all at f1.4
    How did you get such good focus from this lens? Mine's either a dog or it needs a lot of machining ...

    Also at f/1.4:

  10. #60
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by petermcwerner View Post
    A rough indication could be given by the film/sensor size in mm (data from Wikipedia):

    4/3 : 13x17.3
    M8 : 18x27
    16 : 7.49x10.26
    Super 16 : 7.41x12.52
    35 : 18x24

    The only lenses covering the whole μFT sensor according to these values would be cine lenses intended for 35mm. Other lenses, such as some Super 16, may have a larger coverage than theoretically needed.
    Here is a diagram I found on the dvxuser.com website (in the section devoted to the RED camera) that may help visually explain the different coverage areas of various kinds of cine and CCTV lenses. From Peter M's data above, it appears that cine lenses covering the "RED S35" frame will have some safety margin on Micro 4/3, and lenses for "RED 35" will be close:


  11. #61
    robertasumendi
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Has anybody tried one of these or the 25mm version? CCD Direct can get the 25's too, for the same price.

  12. #62
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Today on Ebay, Kern Macro Switer 25mm/F1.1 was sold for $1099 and Schneider Xenon CCTV 25mm/F0.95 lens for $810. I'm wondering if the price of these lens is fair or just hyped.

    BYW, Here is the list of C-mount 25mm lens with image circle size for G1. Some of the lenses has unknown image circle size.



    Angenieux 25/0.95 - covers 90%+ of uFT
    Kern Macro Switer 25mm/F1.1 - ?
    Kern Switer 25mm/F1.4 - 90% (souce : frickr)
    Kern Yver 25mm/F2.5 - ?
    Schneider Cine Xenon 25mm/F0.95 - No (Source : Ebay)
    Schneider Xenon 25mm/F1.4 - Yes or No, depends on version (Source : Ebay)
    Schneider Xenon CCTV 25mm/F0.95 - ?
    Schneider Xenoplan CCTV 1.9/25mm - 100% (Source : evar-futura @Ebay)
    SOM-Berthiot 25/0.95 - 100%
    Carl Zeiss Jena Tevidon 25mm1.4 - 90%

    Please follow up.
    Last edited by plasnu; 10th March 2009 at 18:43.

  13. #63
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    The Schneider Xenon 25/0.95 lists for $1,095 new at B&H (via special order) so $810 doesn't seem like a bad price if it's clean and current.

  14. #64
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    I also checked the retail price of those lenses. Brand new Macro Switers are still sold at Bolex Swiss, The price is about $2500 US. They must be really good lenses...

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by plasnu View Post
    Today on Ebay,

    Kern Macro Switer 25mm/F1.1 was sold for $1099
    For precisions sake, it was a 26mm, that is a different sort of animal and very very rare

    I'm wondering if the price of these lens is fair or just hyped.
    The prices have soared since we are having the discussions and tests on this and other fora and a new use has been found for these old lenses


    Here is the list of C-mount 25mm lens with image circle size for G1.
    Please follow up.
    There is a Schneider publication which gives some details. It does not state the coverage, but at least a negative list of lenses that are not fit for 1". I am attaching it to this post, for whatever use you want to make of it. Double-click on the picture to open (needs Adobe Reader)

    Attachment 13366
    Last edited by petermcwerner; 11th March 2009 at 00:57.
    Peter Werner
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    BYW, Here is the list of C-mount 25mm lens with image circle size for G1. Some of the lenses has unknown image circle size.



    Angenieux 25/0.95 - covers 90%+ of uFT
    Kern Macro Switer 25mm/F1.1 - ?
    Kern Switer 25mm/F1.4 - 90% (souce : frickr)
    Kern Yver 25mm/F2.5 - ?
    Schneider Cine Xenon 25mm/F0.95 - No (Source : Ebay)
    Schneider Xenon 25mm/F1.4 - Yes or No, depends on version (Source : Ebay)
    Schneider Xenon CCTV 25mm/F0.95 - ?
    Schneider Xenoplan CCTV 1.9/25mm - 100% (Source : evar-futura @Ebay)
    SOM-Berthiot 25/0.95 - 100%
    Carl Zeiss Jena Tevidon 25mm1.4 - 90%

    add
    Kodak Ektar 25mm 1.4 95%

    Dave

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by plasnu View Post
    I also checked the retail price of those lenses. Brand new Macro Switers are still sold at Bolex Swiss, The price is about $2500 US. They must be really good lenses...
    They must be old stock (or made by somebody else). The Kern company, the maker of the Switar lenses, was taken over in 1988 by Leica and the plant closed down in 1991.

    To make the disaster complete, what remained was destroyed or thrown away. The Aarau Technical Museum was able to recuperate some documents from the trash, but most designs and technical documentation was lost forever.

    Attachment 13377
    The Kern factory in 1979

    I often drive by the old Kern factory in Aarau, it has been converted to a school and offices.
    Last edited by petermcwerner; 11th March 2009 at 07:16.
    Peter Werner
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by robertasumendi View Post
    Has anybody tried one of these or the 25mm version? CCD Direct can get the 25's too, for the same price.
    If I'm reading those specs right, the back focal length on this lens is 13.89mm so the G1 would have the sensor a bit further back than it should be at 20mm, making the lens a bit less wide than rated, guaranteeing coverage?

    Could someone with more experience with C mount look at those specs?

    A f0.95 lens for $390 seems like a steal!

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by LizaWitz View Post
    If I'm reading those specs right, the back focal length on this lens is 13.89mm so the G1 would have the sensor a bit further back than it should be at 20mm, making the lens a bit less wide than rated, guaranteeing coverage?

    Could someone with more experience with C mount look at those specs?

    A f0.95 lens for $390 seems like a steal!
    Liza,

    According to the ad, the lenses are for a max. of 2/3" (11mm), while the G1 needs 23.5mm coverage (image diagonal), so you would end up with a round picture about half the diameter of the G1, the rest would be smearing and/or vignetting. The fact that they come in c-mount is irrelevant.

    Cheers
    Peter
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  20. #70
    robertasumendi
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by petermcwerner View Post
    Liza,

    According to the ad, the lenses are for a max. of 2/3" (11mm), while the G1 needs 23.5mm coverage (image diagonal), so you would end up with a round picture about half the diameter of the G1, the rest would be smearing and/or vignetting. The fact that they come in c-mount is irrelevant.

    Cheers
    Peter
    Actually, the full specs here indicate it's for 1" sensor, so it's a little better. Wolfgang Raabe claims here the Navitar 50/0.95 covers the full sensor on G1 with room to spare, but who knows how the 25mm would do.

    A 25/0.95 16mm cine lens sold on ebay today for $260, wish I could have bid on that one....
    Last edited by robertasumendi; 12th March 2009 at 03:10.

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Here are a couple of shots from the G1 using the Pentax 28mm, F1.4 CCTV lens.
    First one is F4, Second is F8. Both are jpeg direct from camera at ISO 100
    Vignetting on both with considerable smearing - but the color is lovely (not so subtle in this size)
    Focused on infinity

    Some Holga folks will love these little c-lenses

    Keith

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    Here are a couple of shots from the G1 using the Pentax 28mm, F1.4 CCTV lens. Vignetting on both with considerable smearing - but the color is lovely
    Some Holga folks will love these little c-lenses
    Beautiful colors. And indeed, we have found a new Holga, a bit pricey though ...
    Peter Werner
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Picture #2 raw file, cropped and worked on in Lightroom

    Peter you are right, an expensive Holga. Not so bad if you already have the G1 though. But I wonder if the days of picking up c-lenses at absurd prices has gone? Pin holes are cheap though.

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    Picture #2 raw file, cropped and worked on in Lightroom
    Much better
    Peter Werner
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    It would be VERY interesting if the 25mm 0.95 1" version can focus to infinity. From measuring the pixels on the cad drawing the diameter is around 36mm which would work nicely with the current adapters. The diameter of the 50 0.95 is way bigger, which I guess is why the one on ebay has a custom mount on it.



    Quote Originally Posted by robertasumendi View Post
    Actually, the full specs here indicate it's for 1" sensor, so it's a little better. Wolfgang Raabe claims here the Navitar 50/0.95 covers the full sensor on G1 with room to spare, but who knows how the 25mm would do.

    A 25/0.95 16mm cine lens sold on ebay today for $260, wish I could have bid on that one....

  26. #76
    butterdada
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Angenieux 25/1.4 is ok
    Nikon cine nikkor 25/1.4 & Bausch & lomb 26/1.9 --> the front ring is a little too long.
    So just small vignetting developed when wide open .

  27. #77
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by phobus View Post
    It would be VERY interesting if the 25mm 0.95 1" version can focus to infinity. From measuring the pixels on the cad drawing the diameter is around 36mm which would work nicely with the current adapters. The diameter of the 50 0.95 is way bigger, which I guess is why the one on ebay has a custom mount on it.
    I got an email back on the 50, he said he had to do the custom m4/3 mount to get it to focus to infinity. I don't know if machining was an option. Anyhow, check out the photos from the 50... they look really good!
    Last edited by robertasumendi; 14th March 2009 at 09:12.

  28. #78
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Yes, looks like he took off the c-mount and replaced it with a custom m4/3 flange. Nice work. Although Rabe's photos always have way too much dust, he shouldn't use flash.

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Hi,

    i just bought today, for 100 Euro, a cine camera, with 3 lenses on it.
    One is a c-mount Bell & Howell 1inch, f1.9 super comat
    The screw thread seems like 24 mm large.

    Is there a convertor for G1 ?

    TIA for your info
    Rafael

    PS, the 2 other lenses :

    Kodak Cine Ektar 15mm f2.5
    Cine Kodak telephoto 152 f4.5

    Same adapter, evt, I suppose ??
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

  30. #80
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    The screw thread is 25mm c-mount.

    Yes, this adapter http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5865

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    Hi,
    i just bought today, for 100 Euro, a cine camera, with 3 lenses on it.
    One is a c-mount Bell & Howell 1inch, f1.9 super comat
    PS, the 2 other lenses :
    Kodak Cine Ektar 15mm f2.5
    Cine Kodak telephoto 152 f4.5

    Hei,

    I found my new camera on the net : here it is :



    Not exactely in the same shape, but definitely this one.
    Lenses as above

    CU
    Rafael
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  32. #82
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Looks like a Bell & Howell Automaster, a solidly-made amateur camera that used 16mm film magazines, as opposed to spools, for easier loading. (The classic spool-load 16mm Bell & Howell was the 70D series, originally designed for amateur filmmaking but widely adopted by professionals because of its quality and near-indestructibility.)

    I don't know anything about your other lenses, but I've read that the Cine Ektars were designed for Kodak's professional-grade Cine-Special II camera and were considered some of the best of their era. It should be interesting to try out on the G1!

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    Looks like a Bell & Howell Automaster, a solidly-made amateur camera that used 16mm film magazines, as opposed to spools, for easier loading. (The classic spool-load 16mm Bell & Howell was the 70D series, originally designed for amateur filmmaking but widely adopted by professionals because of its quality and near-indestructibility.)

    I don't know anything about your other lenses, but I've read that the Cine Ektars were designed for Kodak's professional-grade Cine-Special II camera and were considered some of the best of their era. It should be interesting to try out on the G1!

    I have the Kodak Cine Ektar 15/2.5 and it is a very sharp lens. However, as with all the wides I've used it doesn't cover the sensor of the G1 completely. But it is very usable and you'll get some nice sharp pics from it.

    There is a Bell and Howell in my town that I've been asking about. It's in an old camera drugstore and sits on a shelf. Two Angenieux lenses! I've got my fingers cross that they will consider it junk and old and give it to me!

  34. #84
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Hi,

    the camera is indeed a B&H Filmo Auto Master.

    I'm looking forward to receiving the c-mount adaptor from Monza, then I'll be able to adapt the lenses to the G1 and find out about the qualities and drawbacks.

    The guy in the camera shop did not believe his ears, when I told him what I was going to do with this camera. I think he was very sorry that the price was clearly mentionned on the camera, so he had no opportunity to get more for his lenses.

    And, btw, the camera mechanism seems in good working order.

    Have a nice day,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Hi,

    the camera is indeed a B&H Filmo Auto Master.

    I'm looking forward to receiving the c-mount adaptor from Monza, then I'll be able to adapt the lenses to the G1 and find out about the qualities and drawbacks.

    The guy in the camera shop did not believe his ears, when I told him what I was going to do with this camera. I think he was very sorry that the price was clearly mentionned on the camera, so he had no opportunity to get more money for his lenses.

    And, btw, the camera mechanism seems in good working order.

    Have a nice day,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

  36. #86
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    It seems that Mr. Futura is now charging $1,300 for the navitar 50mm f0.95 and his custom mount. I've seen these lenses from various suppliers for around $800.

    Looks like the 25mm will work with current C-mounts, but the 50mm will not? Still $400 for a custom mount is either cheap or expensive depending on your perspective.

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by petermcwerner View Post
    For precisions sake, it was a 26mm, that is a different sort of animal and very very rare
    I haven't heard much about this lens... Has anyone tried it on a G1?

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    I using it. Its really good.

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Here is the samples of 26mm f1.1

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomorgana View Post
    Here is the samples of 26mm f1.1

    That image look pretty good to me. Was the lens stopped down a bit?

    It seems as the lens doesn't cover the full sensor but it is still interesting. Do you have more samples, wide open and slightly stopped down, perhaps with some OOF highlights in the background?

    regards, /Jonas

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Here are 2 shots of a magazine laying on the table, one at f1.1 and second at about f1.8 or so.
    The bokeh is absolutely beautiful. Vignetting is disappearing the more you closing down the aperture, so by f5.6 its pretty much gone so the lens can be used for super sharp landscapes at that point.

  42. #92
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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Photomorgana, just to make sure I haven't lost the thread of this discussion: The lens with which you made the sample photos was the Kern Switar 26mm f/1.1?

    Whatever it was, the sharpness of the sharp areas looks impressive, and the bokeh seems nicely smooth both before and behind the subject plane, which is a rather unusual attribute!

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Yes, the lens is Switar 26 f/1.1
    You are right it is truly impressive lens, but with a very high price tag. ☺
    Angenieux 25 f/0.95 is pretty sharp as well with nice bokeh and a tiny bit more vignetting. Can be had for a bit cheaper (I cant afford to keep both ☺

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomorgana View Post
    Yes, the lens is Switar 26 f/1.1
    You are right it is truly impressive lens, but with a very high price tag. ☺
    Angenieux 25 f/0.95 is pretty sharp as well with nice bokeh and a tiny bit more vignetting. Can be had for a bit cheaper (I cant afford to keep both ☺
    Thats pretty cool! The Switar 26 1.1 seems to be a really nice lens. How much difference is there in the exposure time between the 0.95 and the 1.1 in low light (w/ the G1 )? Also, do you have any samples of the 1.1 in 4:3 mode?

    Thanks!

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomorgana View Post
    Here are 2 shots of a magazine laying on the table, one at f1.1 and second at about f1.8 or so.
    The bokeh is absolutely beautiful. Vignetting is disappearing the more you closing down the aperture, so by f5.6 its pretty much gone so the lens can be used for super sharp landscapes at that point.
    Thank you Photomorgana. The little I have seen this far from the Kern Switar Macro 26/1.1 is impressive. When you say vignetting goes away as the lens is stopped down - is that valid also for images in 4:3 aspect of ratio?
    Is it OK with more questions...? What size is the lens, compared to the the 14-42 kit lens for example? Regards, /Jonas

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by phobus View Post
    Thats pretty cool! The Switar 26 1.1 seems to be a really nice lens. How much difference is there in the exposure time between the 0.95 and the 1.1 in low light (w/ the G1 )?
    In theory the difference between f/1.1 and f/0.95 is a little less than half a stop (0.42 stops). In real life? I don't know as I don't have any of the lenses but I guess the difference is less than so. It depends on the T value and where you measure.

    (Btw; there is 0.70 stops between f/1.4 and f/1.1. My brain works with half stops and it is hard for me to grasp 0.7 stops. I think about it as well over half a stop.) Regards, /Jonas

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Dear phobus,
    Yes the difference between f0.95 and f1.1 is about 1/3 stop. Exposure on Angenieux shows 1/250, when I switch to Switar it becomes 1/200.
    Vignetting in 4:3 mode is a little more than in 16:9, I dont have pix.

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Jonas,
    No vignetting does not go away in 4:3 aspect ration, and I should not say it goes away completely in 16-9 either. It becomes less pronounced.
    Here is my take on F0.95 and F1.1 lenses -
    they are very sharp and contrasty, even if not when out of the camera, Auto Levels in pp will yell great results, no more editing is necessary.

    Those lenses are essential for available light portraits or with dark backgrounds, where vignetting not going to matter. Its not for studio work. Considering size of these lenses, everyone should have one of them in the camera bag.

    The Switar has a little less vignetting that f0.95 lens, but still visible, but Im willing to crop. Based on my observations if you shoot at 16-9 ratio and crop the image to look like 4-3 ration your field of view will jump from 50mm to be closer to 70mm lens. And to me 70mm equivalent FOV with f0.95 is a WOW factor. (so what I have to crop a little, all of my images go through pp and 50% of them I crop anyway, not for vignetting but just for composition. You can not fix lack of detail, or chronic softness, or glare, but vignetting is bs, leica f0.95 vignettes a little as well.

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Jonas,

    here is the size comparison - from left to right...
    panasonic 14-45mm, Angenieux 25mm f0.95, Switar 26mm f1.1 and Switar 75mm f1.9 (both Switars are Macro...

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    Re: A superfast normal on the G1

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomorgana View Post
    Jonas,
    here is the size comparison - from left to right...
    Small enough, good enough, perhaps expensive but I'll see if I can find one. I have given up on prices and considering them rental fees anyway, not knowing the cost until it is sold. If a lens is good enough to stay with for years the price is of less importance anyway.

    Vignetting and not covering the sensor are two different things. Vignetting is OK to me. Not covering the sensor is also OK if I know about it and can use the lens for my purposes. Very many of my images end up 1:1 or close to 1:1 anyway.

    Thank you for the images, and the size comparison. You got me worried there for a moment... You know "...everyone should have one of them in the camera bag." reminds me about what I have heard about the EF85/1.2L as well.

    thank you, /Jonas

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