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Thread: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

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    G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Hi there
    Silly games . . . but what fun! I'm afraid that the trouble is that my tripod probably isn't up to a real war of the worlds. Anyway, there are two photos - all are shot at f2, for the first post it's:
    Zuiko 50mm f2

    Zeiss 50mm sonnar @ f2 with OUFRO

    Leica 75mm 'cron @f2 with OUFRO


    then we have 100% crops from the point of focus

    Zuiko 50mm f2

    Zeiss 50mm sonnar @ f2 with OUFRO

    Leica 75mm 'cron @f2 with OUFRO

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    makes me glad I don't chew apples down to the core

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Okay - here are some more.
    This time I did a closest focus on the Zeiss, (without OUFRO), and then used the Zuiko and the 75 'cron from the same distance

    Zuiko 50mm f2

    Zeiss 50mm sonnar @ f2

    Leica 75mm 'cron @f2


    then we have 100% crops from the point of focus

    Zuiko 50mm f2

    Zeiss 50mm sonnar @ f2

    Leica 75mm 'cron @f2

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Zuiko rocks!

    Thanks for the samples, Jono.

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    I am assuming the 50mm zuiko is the 4/3rds macro lens ... not an old OM lens

    K

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Finally (well, until there is daylight anyway).

    I've ditched the sonnar (for this excercise, it isn't what it was designed for, and it isn't that great for it).

    So, here is a comparison between the Zuiko 50 and the 75 'cron. I moved the tripod back for the cron to make a comparable field of view - both were shot at f2.8.

    Okay -

    Zuiko 50mm


    Leica 75 'cron


    and then 100% crops
    Zuiko 50mm


    Leica 75 'cron

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Fun for me
    Boring for you !

    Still, a couple of observations. The OUFRO may be fun, but it's a fiddle, and the results don't really seem to be as good as those from the Zuiko.

    Shooting without the OUFRO, the Zuiko 50 still holds it's head up really well (mind you, I've always felt it was one of the sharpest lenses I've ever used).

    The final shot, between the Zuiko and the 75 'cron is important for me, because I've always felt that these are the two crispest lenses I've owned.

    I guess that the 'cron might just about sneak it, but in reality there isn't much to choose between them.

    Please note, the poor quality of my manfrotto tripod is only exceeded by my inability to summon up the enthusiasm to really test properly (I KNOW how to do it, but that's a different matter )

    If this has bored you . . .console yourself that I've had fun.
    If it's interested you . . then I'm pleased to be of service.

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    HI John
    would you rather chew sharp apples or blurry ones?

    Vivek
    you got it - it's a splendid lens

    Kevin
    yes - it's the 4:3 Zuiko - it's teeth are short (well, I've had it for a couple of years).

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Fun for me
    Boring for you !
    Jono, in that case, I believe there's a position as testing setup director available just down the road from you. Just see to that the Martini bottle stands straight, and you're out of trouble

    Olympus always made macro lenses non plus ultra, and the digital 50 is no exception, which you clearly show here. Does it AF on the G1?

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Jono, in that case, I believe there's a position as testing setup director available just down the road from you. Just see to that the Martini bottle stands straight, and you're out of trouble
    Hmm - it might be fun for a day, and as for this test . . . . it took an hour, including processing. Quite enough fun for a month or so!
    As for working for Phil . . . can you imagine it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Olympus always made macro lenses non plus ultra, and the digital 50 is no exception, which you clearly show here. Does it AF on the G1?
    No - it doesn't AF - but the manual focusing is good and fine.

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Jono,

    Thanks for the effort. I am amazed at the versatility of the G1 - I have a Hexanon M dual 21/35 which takes on a whole new life on the G1. I am waiting for some time (and weather) to compare the Zeiss 25mm F2.8 to the Oly 25mm F2.8 Pancake. So much fun....

    Best regards. Terry

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Excellent comparison. Very revealing.

    Um...I'm a little sheepish asking this but what does OUFRO stand for?

    Peter
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Peter,

    It is an Leica extension ring used for close-up work, primarily designed for the Visoflex, but the G1 changes that of course. Back in the 'good old days' Leica used letters rather than numbers for catalog purposes.

    Best regards Terry.

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Later, the OUFRO got the numeric code 16469
    Peter Werner
    Leica M8, R9+DMR & Digilux 2; Nikon D700; Panasonic FX01, FX150 & G1; Samsung TL350 (WB 2000)

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Jono, re focusing the ZD macro on the G1 -I haven't played w/one yet, so am still a little leery of the focus by wire thing for macro work, where I want Absolute dictator-like manual control: Completely *Instant* feedback and no stepping in between focus increments. This is definitely not the case w/MF at closest distance w/the kit lens, where you can spend far too much time trying to "predict" and land the exact point.

    I have a Canon FD 50 macro (100, too) that's crazy sharp -would make a good shootout vs the ZD if I get one- and it's focus barrel is smooth as melting butter ("Mmmmm, butter..."). You can finesse the ring back and forth around the focus point and nail it w/no funny business. But the extra 1.5 stops of the ZD, and possibility (maybe) of it being AF updated still have me wondering if I need still another macro.

    What say you? And I mean your most critical assessment of MF action of the ZD at it's worst, please, so I know what I'd be getting into in the most demanding situations.

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    thank you, Jono!

    (but what the hell were you thinking when you used the Sonnar in the first place? silly boy!)

    it helped solidify my lack of lust for this little guy. i know everybody is having a blast with the G1, but i still don't get it. whilst you can use your M lenses on it, the only one that i've seen that made me pause (and drool) was the Noctilux. most of the others seem to lose their character....

    you said in another thread that this "baby DSLR" makes you want to use your real one, and that the M lenses make you want to use your M cam. that's the way i feel about it just by looking at all the images. horses for courses and all that.... perhaps Oly will change my mind if they get the form factor right (think Pen F). otherwise, i'm truly left cold by the G1 and i lust after nearly everything.

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Nice example Jono - that's progress I guess maybe something in these 'designed for digital' ZD lenses?

    Kind Regards

    Brian

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    I suppose that neither the Sonnar nor the Summicron are designed for close-up use with extension rings. That Zuiko lens seems like a real gem, though.

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Hi There Cam
    Thanks for chipping in
    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    thank you, Jono!

    (but what the hell were you thinking when you used the Sonnar in the first place? silly boy!)
    Well, by f2.8 it's pretty sharp, but it fell over, because it doesn't focus closely enough, and the OUFRO looks like perhaps it isn't such a good idea after all!
    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    it helped solidify my lack of lust for this little guy. i know everybody is having a blast with the G1, but i still don't get it. whilst you can use your M lenses on it, the only one that i've seen that made me pause (and drool) was the Noctilux. most of the others seem to lose their character....
    Actually, the sonnar is quite good from that point of view (but I do miss my Noctilux :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    you said in another thread that this "baby DSLR" makes you want to use your real one, and that the M lenses make you want to use your M cam. that's the way i feel about it just by looking at all the images. horses for courses and all that.... perhaps Oly will change my mind if they get the form factor right (think Pen F). otherwise, i'm truly left cold by the G1 and i lust after nearly everything.
    Wow - you remember what I said? I never can

    Quite right though - exactly my feelings, and they haven't changed, this is simply gear fun. It doesn't add to the photographic arsenal at all. It may be exciting to use Leica lenses on something like this, but I agree with you, they lose their character without gaining anything much.

    Some may argue that the G1 has:
    1. more resolution
    2. more dynamic range
    3. better high ISO
    4. easier focusing
    than the M8 . . . . but I know which file I'd pick - every time.

    I suppose that one might argue that the G1 good for macro work (and it is), but actually, I find the d-Lux4 (and before it the GX100) to be excellent for the sort of macro I do.

    So, when I've finished having my fun, I guess this will be off to the sale section, and with a pretty low picture count into the bargain!

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Hi Terry
    Quote Originally Posted by terryc View Post
    Jono,

    Thanks for the effort. I am amazed at the versatility of the G1 - I have a Hexanon M dual 21/35 which takes on a whole new life on the G1. I am waiting for some time (and weather) to compare the Zeiss 25mm F2.8 to the Oly 25mm F2.8 Pancake. So much fun....

    Best regards. Terry
    Pleased to be of service - it's a comparison I could do as well . . . whether I'll get around to it is something different!

    Quote Originally Posted by psurfer View Post

    What say you? And I mean your most critical assessment of MF action of the ZD at it's worst, please, so I know what I'd be getting into in the most demanding situations.
    high there psurfer - I think the focusing is absolutely excellent - it really is a good lens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Nice example Jono - that's progress I guess maybe something in these 'designed for digital' ZD lenses?

    Kind Regards

    Brian
    Hi Brian
    Absolutely there is - what a splendid little lens that 50 is. But I'm afraid that Cam has a real point - it isn't that the leica lenses aren't as good . . .but they do seem to lose their character on the G1.

    Fun as all this is, I still think it's just fiddlearsing about, and when I want to take pictures I'll grab the A900 or the M8 or the E3, depending on the circumstances.

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    So, when I've finished having my fun, I guess this will be off to the sale section, and with a pretty low picture count into the bargain!
    Move quickly, the G1HD will be out soon

    Cheers Jono

    Brian

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    So, when I've finished having my fun, I guess this will be off to the sale section, and with a pretty low picture count into the bargain!
    If you can beat the plummeting prices, please do not list it but send me a PM.

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    With all do respect and with all sincerity, the G1 is what it is.

    However I honestly am not sure what it means that Leica lenses lose their "character" when used on the G1 as opposed to the M8.

    I saw similar comments when the M8 first arrived on scene when compared to M film cameras. I suppose and some have done so, you could argue the moment you put a UV/IR filter on an M lenses (for use on the M8) you affect it's inherent quality, etc.

    For the sake of full disclosure I own two M8's and have many Leica lenses - my first M8 was purchased Nov. 9th 06, the second one mid December 06.

    I want to stress that this is not meant to be confrontational or some exuberant defence of putting M lenses on any camera but a Leica.

    Best regards. Terry.

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    As long it (the lens) fits, and as long as I own a lens, I will mount it on any camera that I wish.

    X-mas (Russian state) circus with the Summicron wide open, on the G1.



    Would have been mighty difficult for me with that lens on a Leica camera. A RF veteran might disagree but I am speaking for myself.
    Last edited by Vivek; 23rd January 2009 at 07:13.

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    That is a great shot. Bill over on LUF would drool as he likes to shoot stage work.
    V/r John

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    What a beautiful shot Vivek. How did you handle exposure and W/B?
    Peter Werner
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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    HI Terry
    Quote Originally Posted by terryc View Post
    With all do respect and with all sincerity, the G1 is what it is.

    However I honestly am not sure what it means that Leica lenses lose their "character" when used on the G1 as opposed to the M8.

    I saw similar comments when the M8 first arrived on scene when compared to M film cameras. I suppose and some have done so, you could argue the moment you put a UV/IR filter on an M lenses (for use on the M8) you affect it's inherent quality, etc.

    For the sake of full disclosure I own two M8's and have many Leica lenses - my first M8 was purchased Nov. 9th 06, the second one mid December 06.

    I want to stress that this is not meant to be confrontational or some exuberant defence of putting M lenses on any camera but a Leica.

    Best regards. Terry.
    Point taken - I'm absolutely up for putting leica lenses on any camera they'll fit on . . . . Of course, my point of view is entirely subjective, and on that basis unproveable.

    I suspect that the truth of it is that I simply like the look of files taken with a camera with no AA filter . . . and possibly I also have an affection for the 'feel' of those Kodak sensors.

    I'm especially vulnerable here, as I find it quite irritating when people bang on about film being better than digital

    Vivek - lovely shot - as far as being able to take it with a rangefinder - assuming you didn't need the 'magnification' factor of the slightly smaller sensor, then of course you could have taken it. Rangefinders are rather good at that kind of low light thing . . .

    you could look at Robmacs auto iso thread

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Quote Originally Posted by terryc View Post
    With all do respect and with all sincerity, the G1 is what it is.

    However I honestly am not sure what it means that Leica lenses lose their "character" when used on the G1 as opposed to the M8.

    I saw similar comments when the M8 first arrived on scene when compared to M film cameras. I suppose and some have done so, you could argue the moment you put a UV/IR filter on an M lenses (for use on the M8) you affect it's inherent quality, etc.
    if i had a G1, i would be doing exactly the same thing as everybody else -- putting on any lens i could

    regarding the loss of character, that is my own personal opinion as a lover of glass. and i do think the sensor size is probably the biggest factor. i, myself, shoot on an Epson R-D1 which is not as good as the M8 which is not as good as an M film camera at showing the magic of a lens. the G1 is now the smallest sensor and it shows. at least to me.

    i do not mean to ruin anybody's fun as many are obviously enjoying playing around. after all, you can never truly suppress good glass!

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Thanks John ( you could invite Bill to come over here to give his take), Peter and Jono.

    Peter, It was shot at 1/200s, ISO400. I set the speed manually as the lighting was (colors and the amount) was changing constantly and rapidly. The final colors are processed to resemble what it actually looked like.

    Jono, Yes. Rangefinders are good at many things.
    Last edited by Vivek; 23rd January 2009 at 08:05.

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    i do not mean to ruin anybody's fun as many are obviously enjoying playing around. after all, you can never truly suppress good glass!
    Well said! Why ruin it by "coding", eh?

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Well said! Why ruin it by "coding", eh?
    touché!


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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Jono,
    What adapter are you using? I have the oufro 16469 and it does not fit on my adapter. There is difference in a flange size (lack of knowledge of correct term - there are four of these on the leica m lens mount). Thanks, Frank

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Frank, Check if you are lining up the mounts correctly (red dots with red dots).

    The OUFRO (or the numbered one)' s mount is just like any M lens. No difference at all.

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Quote Originally Posted by wolverine View Post
    Jono,
    What adapter are you using? I have the oufro 16469 and it does not fit on my adapter. There is difference in a flange size (lack of knowledge of correct term - there are four of these on the leica m lens mount). Thanks, Frank
    HI Frank
    Mine doesn't have any number I can see - it just says OUFRO
    but as Vivek says - they should mount okay on any Leica M / m4/3 adaptor (mine certainly does).

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Frank is correct. The OUFRO does not fit in the Milich adapter. One of the "cams" is too big for the hole in the adapter. John is working on a revision. According to JBHIII, there is some difference in tolerance to Leica lenses. My OUFRO and my Leica branded 90mm LTM to M adapter both do not fit in the Milich M to G1 adapter at the moment. The rest of my Leica M-mount lenses do (35 lux pre, 50 lux pre, 90 cron pre.) Terry said that her 50 lux pre does not fit.

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Move quickly, the G1HD will be out soon

    Cheers Jono

    Brian
    HI Brian
    Thanks for the advice!
    It's in motion . . . . I don't think I'll have a G1 by next weekend

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  37. #37
    Senior Member Per Ofverbeck's Avatar
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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    Frank is correct. The OUFRO does not fit in the Milich adapter. One of the "cams" is too big for the hole in the adapter. John is working on a revision. According to JBHIII, there is some difference in tolerance to Leica lenses. My OUFRO and my Leica branded 90mm LTM to M adapter both do not fit in the Milich M to G1 adapter at the moment. The rest of my Leica M-mount lenses do (35 lux pre, 50 lux pre, 90 cron pre.) Terry said that her 50 lux pre does not fit.
    In fact, there are three different M lens mount "flavours". This is because of the keying-in mechanism for the finder frames. The difference is indeed the length of one of the bayonet "claws" (or, segments of flange, or whatever...).
    The one closest to the milled-out bayonet lock position is shortest for those lenses that use the 35/135 position (where the selection lever on the camera front is pointing a little away from the lens), a bit longer for 50 lenses (lever straight up), and longest fot the 90 frame (lever pointing slightly inward to the lens).

    If one looks inside the mount on the camera body, the little nubbin that governs the selection lever and the frames is visible, and thatīs what is pushed into different positions by this bayonet claw.

    I happen to have the complete set of LTM-to-M adapters for the three frames, and only the 35/135 one can be mounted properly on my Novoflex adapter. Since the frame keying isnīt used, it doesnīt really matter which adapter I use for which lens (on the G1), but I can understand why some mounts have this problem and some donīt.

    The "final" solution: all adapters should be designed so they accept the 90 mount without problems; then everything else should work, too.

    I donīt own an OUFRO, but I bet this is at the root of the problem there, too.

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Jono,

    Thank you for your excellent comparison.

    Vivek,

    Your circus photo is beautiful.

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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Per,
    Thanks for the clear explanation of the issue. That sums up my experience.
    Frank

  40. #40
    Super Moderator Cindy Flood's Avatar
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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Quote Originally Posted by Per Ofverbeck View Post
    In fact, there are three different M lens mount "flavours". This is because of the keying-in mechanism for the finder frames. The difference is indeed the length of one of the bayonet "claws" (or, segments of flange, or whatever...).
    The one closest to the milled-out bayonet lock position is shortest for those lenses that use the 35/135 position (where the selection lever on the camera front is pointing a little away from the lens), a bit longer for 50 lenses (lever straight up), and longest fot the 90 frame (lever pointing slightly inward to the lens).

    If one looks inside the mount on the camera body, the little nubbin that governs the selection lever and the frames is visible, and thatīs what is pushed into different positions by this bayonet claw.



    I happen to have the complete set of LTM-to-M adapters for the three frames, and only the 35/135 one can be mounted properly on my Novoflex adapter. Since the frame keying isnīt used, it doesnīt really matter which adapter I use for which lens (on the G1), but I can understand why some mounts have this problem and some donīt.

    The "final" solution: all adapters should be designed so they accept the 90 mount without problems; then everything else should work, too.

    I donīt own an OUFRO, but I bet this is at the root of the problem there, too.
    Per, Thank you for this detailed explanation of the tolerances.

    I still wonder why my Leica 50 pre-ASPH fits in the Milich adapter and Terry's Leica 50 pre-ASPH doesn't.

  41. #41
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    Re: G1 - Zuiko 50mm Leica 75 'cron Zeiss 50 sonnar and oufro

    Quote Originally Posted by Per Ofverbeck View Post
    In fact, there are three different M lens mount "flavours". This is because of the keying-in mechanism for the finder frames. The difference is indeed the length of one of the bayonet "claws" (or, segments of flange, or whatever...).
    The one closest to the milled-out bayonet lock position is shortest for those lenses that use the 35/135 position (where the selection lever on the camera front is pointing a little away from the lens), a bit longer for 50 lenses (lever straight up), and longest fot the 90 frame (lever pointing slightly inward to the lens).

    If one looks inside the mount on the camera body, the little nubbin that governs the selection lever and the frames is visible, and thatīs what is pushed into different positions by this bayonet claw.

    I happen to have the complete set of LTM-to-M adapters for the three frames, and only the 35/135 one can be mounted properly on my Novoflex adapter. Since the frame keying isnīt used, it doesnīt really matter which adapter I use for which lens (on the G1), but I can understand why some mounts have this problem and some donīt.

    The "final" solution: all adapters should be designed so they accept the 90 mount without problems; then everything else should work, too.

    I donīt own an OUFRO, but I bet this is at the root of the problem there, too.
    Per, I also have all those M to LTM adapters plus several others ranging from the earliest to current Leica or third party M mount items. They all fit my adapter (front made of an OUFRO) and the RayQual adapter.

    Yes, the adapter you ask for already exists.

    Howard, Thanks for your kind words.

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