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Thread: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

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    Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Time to start this thread in anticipation of the EM5 mark ii! I'm already on the pre-order list. Interested to see what this baby can do with landscape and product shots.

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Here are three test shots from Robin Wong's review site, who is doing a great job by answering a lot of questions on the actual use of this technology.

    Left is the 40mp shot, the right is 16mp single shot upscaled to match the 40mp shots.




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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only




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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only



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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Here's the link to Robin Wong's blog for more details.

    bloglink

    I think we should give him the hits in return for borrowing his pictures. Note that he is showing in-camera JPEGs (cited as 40 MPx but I don't know the exact dimensions of the JPEG that is output -- should check the manual).

    scott

    (edit) the manual only says that the 40 MPx jpegs are 7296 x 5472, and the raw files are MUCH bigger.
    Last edited by scott kirkpatrick; 10th February 2015 at 11:11.

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    The HR ORF file that I processed with RPP gave a 9280x6938 16 bit tiff file.
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    The HR ORF file that I processed with RPP gave a 9280x6938 16 bit tiff file.
    (What's RPP?) That's 64MPx, all right. A 16bit TIFF would fill 128 MB before compression. But there is some magic going on in the transformations. Each set of four shots produces something like 3x12 bits of good color information at each of the original pixel sites, since the Bayer filter interpolation is not needed any more. The second four shots do the same, but now we have 32 MPx of this lovely color data on a lattice which is tilted at 45 degrees to the original orientation and has to be rotated back for display. (Take a bit of square-ruled paper, put a dot into the middle of each square and you'll see that you have made a new square array, tilted at 45 degrees.)

    So they map it back onto a set of "virtual" pixels with half the original spacing but not rotated. There are 64M of these virtual pixels. But how do you suppose the color information is encoded? It would be a shame to turn the 36 bits back into just 16 bits altogether for the three colors. We don't really have the spatial resolution that the 64MPx array of pixels implies, but we have more color information. It's magic.

    Maybe the E-M1 Mk ii will take 16 shots and capture all this resolution? Or Sony, or Pentax, which have to respond to this challenge.

    scott

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    The HR ORF file that I processed with RPP gave a 9280x6938 16 bit tiff file.
    9,280 x 6,938 = 64,384,640 MP
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    (What's RPP?) That's 64MPx, all right. A 16bit TIFF would fill 128 MB before compression. But there is some magic going on in the transformations. Each set of four shots produces something like 3x12 bits of good color information at each of the original pixel sites, since the Bayer filter interpolation is not needed any more. The second four shots do the same, but now we have 32 MPx of this lovely color data on a lattice which is tilted at 45 degrees to the original orientation and has to be rotated back for display. (Take a bit of square-ruled paper, put a dot into the middle of each square and you'll see that you have made a new square array, tilted at 45 degrees.)

    So they map it back onto a set of "virtual" pixels with half the original spacing but not rotated. There are 64M of these virtual pixels. But how do you suppose the color information is encoded? It would be a shame to turn the 36 bits back into just 16 bits altogether for the three colors. We don't really have the spatial resolution that the 64MPx array of pixels implies, but we have more color information. It's magic.

    Maybe the E-M1 Mk ii will take 16 shots and capture all this resolution? Or Sony, or Pentax, which have to respond to this challenge.

    scott
    RPP = Raw Photo Processor
    Latest version will process the HR ORF files. So far I've only found one HR raw file to work with at the ImagingResource review site. Here is the 64 MP tiff file exported from RPP to LR and then to my dropbox.
    Last edited by scho; 10th February 2015 at 18:57. Reason: add link
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    scott. totally cool with giving Robin hits to his website. I download these files only in case the flickr file addresses on his website changes. that's all.

    looking forward to all the posts once we get our em5 2

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    with people already receiving EM5 IIs. how about some test shots here?

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    got the camera. 40mp shots work as advertised. it's surprisingly quick!

    but lightroom doesn't support it yet. the Olympic view 3 allows you to see the picture, but not edit it

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    ok just got the camera today. some test shots. This is a straight JPG from the camera, 9216x6912 pixel

    Bad lighting indoors, 100mm, F4, 1/25 second. tripod, iso 100. Raw file came out to be 100mb, jpeg about 20mb



    original Jpeg link
    https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8604/...96c259_o_d.jpg
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only


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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    the latitude of the file is fantastic. This image was right out of the camera but from what I could play with the TIFF file converted from RAW, the highlight and shadow recovery was very easy and the file stood up to strong manupilation

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Here's another one. with my 100-300 lens. At 100mm the lens is sharp enough for 40mp resolution.

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    100% crop

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    This is a shot of the building across from me at 300mm. Mind, it's through a window (clean). As you can see, overall the image is sharp. however at 100%, while still acceptable, the resolution is pushing at the 100-300mm's limit.


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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    100% crop


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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    so. my conclusion so far is that:

    1) this camera will test the resolution limit of your non-pro lens.
    2) With a little sharpening, however, the image even at the longest end is still very acceptable. This opens up the opportunity of 600mm landscape shots for all of us without having to spend 10k+ equipment. (on the 100-300mm lens)
    3) image quality at 40mp is very good, file is rich and easy to manipulate
    4) the little camera rocks!
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    First try with the E-M5ii and 75mm f/1.8. Comparison of HR OOC jpeg and raw processed through CS6 HR plugin and exported as 40 MP jpeg. Both look good. Camera does some slight cropping when processing the jpeg. Control or right click image to download full size original.

    Raw plugin


    OOC jpeg
    Last edited by scho; 5th March 2015 at 08:23.
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    A HR kitchen still life shot with E-M5II+75mm f/1.8. Processed raw in Irident Developer using Jono's LR/Irident workflow and exported a 40 MP jpeg to Flickr. Control click image to download full size 40 MP original.

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Must get that tripod back from Tim

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Impressive results Carl, the details in the onion-skin are very well rendered. I do notice some odd pattern in the background, is this related to the high resolution processing or natural?
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Impressive file, Carl. Albeit a bit noisy - I'd say typical for this sensor.
    I've seen this too in the E-M5 and E-M1 files.

    Or is there another explanation ?

    Kind regards.
    Bart ...
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Quote Originally Posted by Arne Hvaring View Post
    Impressive results Carl, the details in the onion-skin are very well rendered. I do notice some odd pattern in the background, is this related to the high resolution processing or natural?
    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Impressive file, Carl. Albeit a bit noisy - I'd say typical for this sensor.
    I've seen this too in the E-M5 and E-M1 files.

    Or is there another explanation ?

    Kind regards.
    Not sure but I think that some of the background noise was from the OOF grain pattern in the countertop material and/or result of under exposure. ISO was only 500 and I've seen much cleaner results at 1600 in other shots.
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Looking for moire in some of these HR images, but so far haven't found any. I thought for sure that the fabric in these cloth flowers would produce moire, but none. E-M5II+75mm f/1.8 @ f/8 40 MP image from Irident.

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    ouch. razor sharp to the edges!
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Two detail shots of the old park boathouse taken with the E-M5II and 12-40. Batch processed through the Olympus HR raw plugin in Photoshop, exported 64 MP tifs to LR, and exported 40 MP jpegs to Flickr.





    A beautiful old button ball tree (Sycamore) against a deep blue sky. Nice thaw in progress and hope it continues.

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Impressive Scho. Would be nice to see a show down between the new high tech E-M5ii high resolution vs the Nokia 808 with the boat house shot as the scene of choice , that is if you still have your 808

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    Impressive Scho. Would be nice to see a show down between the new high tech E-M5ii high resolution vs the Nokia 808 with the boat house shot as the scene of choice , that is if you still have your 808
    Thanks Mazor. Yes, I still have the 808 and I could also include the Sony A7r.
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    nice look forward to a nice comparison. A7r will definitely be a contender, but will be interesting to see well all 3 handles moire issues at such high resolutions.

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Thanks Carl. Very interesting.
    Could you also please show 100% detail crops of vertical or horizontal straight edges? TIA.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Looking at the scho's 40 MPx versions downloaded from Flickr at actual size, these look a little softer than the fence-wire shot that K-Hawinkler showed earlier. Were these three sharpened after rendering as 40 MPx?

    BTW, the lack of any color fringing or other artifacts in the tree against sky shot is pretty awesome. What lens was used?

    scott
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    mmbma, thanks for confirming the Panny 100-300 is still good up to 40Mp . I absolutely love that lens for travel. Do you have the tripod foot mod for yours?

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    Looking at the scho's 40 MPx versions downloaded from Flickr at actual size, these look a little softer than the fence-wire shot that K-Hawinkler showed earlier. Were these three sharpened after rendering as 40 MPx?

    BTW, the lack of any color fringing or other artifacts in the tree against sky shot is pretty awesome. What lens was used?

    scott
    Scott,

    The 40 mp images were not sharpened. The 64 mp images that these were derived from were given a little adaptive sharpening in NIK but no other processing. The lens used for all of these shots was the 12-40 f/2.8 Pro at f/8.
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    hmm, is it advisable to use the 12-40 pro at f8.0? From what I heard on other forums, the 12-40 pro suffers from diffraction easily, and optimum sharpness is around f4.0 to f5.6 over the whole frame.

    Maybe this "softness" Scott has brought up is due to diffraction, and not to do with the resolving power of the 12-40 pro.
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    hmm, is it advisable to use the 12-40 pro at f8.0? From what I heard on other forums, the 12-40 pro suffers from diffraction easily, and optimum sharpness is around f4.0 to f5.6 over the whole frame.

    Maybe this "softness" Scott has brought up is due to diffraction, and not to do with the resolving power of the 12-40 pro.
    Indeed, Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 12-40 mm f/2.8 ED PRO review - Image resolution - Lenstip.com, quote:



    Except when more DOF is necessary I shoot at f/4 for m43, after all that corresponds to f/8 for FF.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    hmm, is it advisable to use the 12-40 pro at f8.0? From what I heard on other forums, the 12-40 pro suffers from diffraction easily, and optimum sharpness is around f4.0 to f5.6 over the whole frame.

    Maybe this "softness" Scott has brought up is due to diffraction, and not to do with the resolving power of the 12-40 pro.
    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Indeed, Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 12-40 mm f/2.8 ED PRO review - Image resolution - Lenstip.com, quote:



    Except when more DOF is necessary I shoot at f/4 for m43, after all that corresponds to f/8 for FF.
    Mazor and K-H. Thanks for pointing this out.
    I haven't shot m43 in awhile and forgot about diffraction issues. When I go back to do some camera comparison shots I'll also do some comparative aperture tests.
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    mmbma, thanks for confirming the Panny 100-300 is still good up to 40Mp . I absolutely love that lens for travel. Do you have the tripod foot mod for yours?
    I don't have the tripod collar. Since the lens is light the balance is not bad. The trick if you are shooting at 300mm is to let the lens "settle" for a few seconds, then use a remote or delay shutter. even the slight press of the shutter will blur the image at 40mp

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    A few HR shots with the E-M5II and 12-40 lens. A mild but windy afternoon down at the marina, but looking at the trees in the marina landscape shots I don't see any serious artifacting from branches swaying in the wind. Images below link to HR full size jpegs (64 MP minus slight cropping in some). Processing consisted of ORF import into Photoshop via the Olympus HR plugin, tif file export to LR, NIK pre-sharpen (adaptive 50%), and jpeg export to Flickr. No other processing.





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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    I re-processed two of the boathouse images in my previous post. These were derived from HR ORF files imported into Photoshop via the Olympus HR plugin, exported tifs to LR, and then applied NIK raw pre-sharpening with 70% adaptive sharpening. No other processing. Might be a bit too much for screen, but perfect for prints on matte paper.



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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    I tried stitching 3 HR images using shots taken at Taughannock Falls. The final image was 135 MP. E-M5II + 75mm f/1.8, processed ORF files through the HR PS plugin, NIK default raw resharpen, tif files stitched in AutoPanoPro 4.
    .
    Click on image below for larger version or see cropped version with additional sharpening in post #2313 in this thread

    The ice dome at the base of the falls is about 100 ft high and falls drop is 215 ft.



    A single HR 64 MP shot in portrait orientation. Small image below links to a 40 MP downsized version. There are cross hatching artifacts in the moving water in the original 64 MP image that I did not remove. Downsizing to 40 MP eliminates most of these artifacts.

    Last edited by scho; 14th March 2015 at 16:31.
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    A comparison between the E-M5II and Sony A7r. Shot HR raw with the Oly using a 12-40mm Pro lens at 23mm, f/5.6, ISO 200. Processed the HR ORF through Irident and exported a 3:2 aspect 40 MP Tif to LR. Sony A7r shot raw using Rodenstock 45mm APO-Grandagon at f/8 mounted on a Cambo Actus, ISO 200 and processed raw in LR. Seems to be a draw in terms of resolution and sharpness.

    Below is a 100% screen grab of the two images in LR at the center focus point. Olympus left and Sony right. Original full size images are here.

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    A comparison between the E-M5II and Sony A7r. Shot HR raw with the Oly using a 12-40mm Pro lens at 23mm, f/5.6, ISO 200. Processed the HR ORF through Irident and exported a 3:2 aspect 40 MP Tif to LR. Sony A7r shot raw using Rodenstock 45mm APO-Grandagon at f/8 mounted on a Cambo Actus, ISO 200 and processed raw in LR. Seems to be a draw in terms of resolution and sharpness.

    Below is a 100% screen grab of the two images in LR at the center focus point. Olympus left and Sony right. Original full size images are here.


    Many thanks Carl. Both images look great.
    The Sony image seems to look a tad warmer.
    Which image does look more like what you saw with your eyes? TIA.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Many thanks Carl. Both images look great.
    The Sony image seems to look a tad warmer.
    Which image does look more like what you saw with your eyes? TIA.
    I think that the Sony image is closer in terms of actual color, but I did not try to adjust WB in the two images to match. Lighting was mixed daylight and overhead recessed ceiling lights, so difficult to deal with.
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    I think that the Sony image is closer in terms of actual color, but I did not try to adjust WB in the two images to match. Lighting was mixed daylight and overhead recessed ceiling lights, so difficult to deal with.
    . . . . and certainly no correct answer (remember that dress!)

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    Impressive Scho. Would be nice to see a show down between the new high tech E-M5ii high resolution vs the Nokia 808 with the boat house shot as the scene of choice , that is if you still have your 808
    Sorry for the long delay. Here are three shots of the boathouse scene using the Nokia 808, Sony A7r with Leica R 35-70, and Olympus M-5II with 12-40. Taken at different times, and the Oly and Sony shots were cropped and resized to match the Nokia 808. Dropbox link to files below.

    Boathouse Image Files
    Carl
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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    wow, thanks Scho (Carl) just had a look, and the difference at first is not so obvious until you really start pixel peeping.

    I would rank the cameras in the following order of best to worst.

    1. Olympus E-M5-ii
    2. Sony A7r
    3. Nokia 808

    The amount of resolution both the A7r and the E-M5ii is really quite impressive. Those 2 are neck in neck in terms of resolving power and detail. What is of interest is the aliasing which I find is an issue on some of the wooden panels captured with the A7r. This aliasing issue does not exist on the E-M5-ii. The 808 sadly sits last with the lowest signal to noise and least resolving power. That being said the 808 does have a smaller sensor, a tiny Zeiss optic and no aperture to allow for stop down DOF sharpening. With such a small optic, I suspect the Nokia 808 "softness" or lack of detail compared to the other two may be attributed to diffraction where the sensor has clearly out resolved the lens.



    Scho is it possible to take the same shot again with the E-M5ii in 16Mp resolution? It would be interesting to see if there is aliasing in that situation.

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    Re: Fun with Olympus EM5 Mark ii 40mp only

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    wow, thanks Scho (Carl) just had a look, and the difference at first is not so obvious until you really start pixel peeping.

    I would rank the cameras in the following order of best to worst.

    1. Olympus E-M5-ii
    2. Sony A7r
    3. Nokia 808

    The amount of resolution both the A7r and the E-M5ii is really quite impressive. Those 2 are neck in neck in terms of resolving power and detail. What is of interest is the aliasing which I find is an issue on some of the wooden panels captured with the A7r. This aliasing issue does not exist on the E-M5-ii. The 808 sadly sits last with the lowest signal to noise and least resolving power. That being said the 808 does have a smaller sensor, a tiny Zeiss optic and no aperture to allow for stop down DOF sharpening. With such a small optic, I suspect the Nokia 808 "softness" or lack of detail compared to the other two may be attributed to diffraction where the sensor has clearly out resolved the lens.



    Scho is it possible to take the same shot again with the E-M5ii in 16Mp resolution? It would be interesting to see if there is aliasing in that situation.
    When you shoot in HR mode you automatically get a 16 mp file (first shot in the series) saved as a raw ORI file. Here is the converted ORI file that was downloaded with the ORF file.
    Carl
    Gallery

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