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Thread: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

  1. #51
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by henningw View Post
    For Auto ISO in M, try the following:

    I don't know how it's done on the EM-5 II, but on the EM-1 you go to the custom menu (cogwheel) and to 'Exp/--/ISO' and there, under 'Auto-ISO' (below the Auto-ISO set). There you select 'All' instead of P/A/S.

    Henning
    Yup. This is it. I had to do the same. I was also perplexed at first.

    There is no EV compensation on the Olympus m4/3rds currently. Pentax/Ricoh got this one nailed down.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorkil View Post
    Hi Jono
    Allow me to ask: If you hadn’t got the Leica M, would you still sell the A7II and prefer the E-M5II instead? And why? Colours seem to be a tiny bit more “rich” and more “complete” from the A7II, or? The E-M5II looks more neutral but also a bit more “cold”/clinic?
    And how about the subjective feeling for the two cameras? Which will do the better talking to you, instant handling etc.?
    Thorkil
    Dont have the e-M5II but just the E-M1 and the A7II and ... and here is my take:
    -take DOF -requirements into consideration: The f4.0 24-70 and 70-200 have a theoretical 1 f-stop advantage over the f2.8 Zooms from Olympus in regards of shallow DOF. It does make quite a difference if you want to blur he background.
    I think specially the 70-200/4.0FE has a very nice background blur.
    If you use primes the difference is even bigger.
    One the other side having a little more DOF can also be an advantage for some people/subjects
    -I believe the images from the Sony are a little smoother in regards of tonal transitions
    -Color...I have to say I think Oly color is hard to beat
    -Size - m43 clearly has some advantage here; One thing (true for both systems)....they relation between body -size and lens size/weight is critical IMO. As soon as you use the higher grade pro lenses the combo gets frontheavy. Even the 12-40/2.8 on the EM1...its ok but not great balanced. Thats also the reason why I prefer the EM1 body over the EM5/10.

    For me I will keep both systems at the moment. I most say in regards of user interface I kind of like/prefer the Oly over the Sonys.
    Last edited by Paratom; 9th March 2015 at 03:00.
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by henningw View Post
    For Auto ISO in M, try the following:

    I don't know how it's done on the EM-5 II, but on the EM-1 you go to the custom menu (cogwheel) and to 'Exp/--/ISO' and there, under 'Auto-ISO' (below the Auto-ISO set). There you select 'All' instead of P/A/S.

    Henning
    Thank you so much Henning it would have taken me months to find that!

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    I *almost* bought this lens today. I walked myself out of the store to make sure I am really going full feet in the m4/3rds. But I tried it and it sure looks like a great awesome lens.

    - Ricardo
    Hi Ricardo
    it's not a lens to miss. really an all time favorite and 150 is a surprisingly usable focal length (especially with IBIS).

    We're off to the mountains for a few days:
    E-M5ii with 14-150 and 45 f1.8
    Leica M with 28 and 50 Lux
    Teeny and perfect!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Recently I was in Cuba for 2 weeks and took the 7-14, 12-40/2.8, the 75, the 20/1.7 and 100-300. The latter was for birds, of which I saw few so it didn't get much use.

    However, the 12-40 and 75 combo was fantastic. I also have the 35-100/2.8 Panasonic, but I like the 75 so much that the zoom gets little use. The 75 was just an ideal compromise with respect to speed, size and reach. Its image quality is just so outstanding that it always delights. In combination with Oly's IBIS it's just hard to get it wrong.

    Henning

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions


    Hi Ricardo
    it's not a lens to miss. really an all time favorite and 150 is a surprisingly usable focal length (especially with IBIS).
    Totally understand, 150mm is one of my favorite focal lengths and I came to discover there was another street photographer from the past that used it. Saul Leiter.

    That's me with the Pentax 06 Q lens (at 202mm+). It's a question more of whether I was going to keep the OMD, but looks like I am. So I have to start selling stuff. (which also means the 75mm is my next purchase 98% likely now).



    - Ricardo

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    I was pretty surprised by the ISO performance here. This is ISO 6400 at F1.8, 1/15s (IBIS did its job too). To me this ranks as ~ISO 16,000 at F2.8, 1/15s, which is like ISO 32,000 at F2.8, 1/30s.

    I mention the last equivalent number because that to me is what I call pretty low light. Not even in my wildest dreams my previous 4/3rds camera would have done this. And it still has enough detail also.

    Sure, there's some noise. But I am not even using advanced noise reduction programs. If LR can do the chroma noise reduction as well as it does it for the Nikon 1 this should look pretty decent though I am not a fan of default LR color.

    Converted with Iridient 3.0.



    - Ricardo
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    I have to say, I still find a bit odd that this camera has no "AA" filter. The shots I am taking still point that it has one (weak) one or Olympus is doing something to those RAW files to avoid moire.

    I went out with the Nikon 1 J4 today and in the weekend one of the two days, and I found it can resolve detail better. With the better primes seems to get in some cases better micro contrast. Where the Olympus takes over it is in high iso and total DR. But if you get a shot within the DR of the Nikon, I am surprised how well it holds.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    So I have been giving the latest Capture One 8.2 a spin and... I am seeing a lot of "pop" and color I like from the OMD EM5 MKII. I think this may be it. I will wait for LR 6 to see if they have improved their engine or something but looks I may just upgrade to Capture one, keep using the OMD.

    Shots sometime later.

    - Ricardo
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    I tried, I really tried to resist this camera. I swore I would not go back to m43 as the IQ just wasn't good enough but this little bugger kept calling me and I finally said what the hell I'll give it a try. What an impressive camera! First, it is fast, fast and ACCURATE AF in almost all conditions. Perfect size and solid feel. Everything works like it should with a really quiet shutter, even without quiet mode where it is silent. Small but very sharp lenses. I have tried two, the 12-40mm f2.8 pro and the 14-150mm f4-5.6 II. I wasn't sure what to expect for the latter lens priced at $599 but I have been pleasantly surprised at how sharp this lens is. I tired my first ever BIF at 300mm equivalent and lens, IBIS and AF worked perfectly to get my first shot perfect. I'm not saying it was easy as the bird was a large black bird that was swooping and changing directions unpredictably and at 300mm a challenge to keep it in the lens. Without the IBIS in this camera it would have been impossible.

    I have compared IQ against a host of cameras I have owned and been pleasantly surprised to see it matched or beat many of them and only losing out minimally to FF in resolution and DR (but not by much), In terms of color and contrast it is more accurate than my Sony A&7II with better contrast and sharpness. For stills, like interiors, the 40MP mode just produces stunningly high resolution images. If the Leica T or XV had performed like this camera they would still be in my kit and I wouldn't have purchased this camera. On the pro lenses the MF clutch is just fantastic giving a nice linear feel with real stops and it just pops into focus on the LCD or EVF. The lenses are not as large as the Leica or Sony lenses and that is a huge plus.
    V/r John
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Hi there John
    It's hard not to love it isn't it - a really fine camera.

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Yes, I have been amazed at shots I have gotten with the 5-Axis and using the tele end at sec and once as long as 2 sec. I just took 3 shots at 300mm equivalent at 1.5, 1.3 and 1 secs and all but the first were tack sharp hand held. The A7II 5-Axis can't come close to that performance at 70mm. In single point AF (not continuous) I have shot people moving toward me and away from me, some walking fast and some running and it nails about 98%. When it misses, it is usually due to the IBIS not having stabilized yet and you can see it happening. Since I don't turn on continuos the IBIS does not start until a press of the shutter button and with a 300mm lens it can take is a split second to stabilize. With shorter focal lengths, even down to the 80mm equivalent on the pro lens it is so fast you rarely see it happening. I find the pro lens at the wide end extremely nice for interiors and having the leveling indicators very helpful to help align for geometric distortions in perspective created at wide angles. A pro super wide would be very nice to add.
    V/r John
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    A pro super wide would be very nice to add.
    There are/will be two possibilities

    1) The Panasonic 7-14mm F4 which is very sharp already from F4, especially at the short end. There is a drawback however, with the 16MB Sony sensors used by Olympus : when a sting light is in the frame or near if the frame, you can get ugly purple blobs in the picture and it isn't always easy yo avoid them and almost impossible to correct. I gave yet to try whether this problem is solved with the E-M5 II, but it was first discovered with the E-M5. Not sure that things were better with the subsequent cameras.

    2) Olympus has announced a 7-14mm F2.8 to complete the line of Pro zooms. It should come out this year, along with the 300mm F4 tele.

    7-14mm F2.8 Prozoom

    I would rather wait for the Olympus zoom. I'm not sure whether I will update from the 7-14mm Panpasonic to the Olympus myself, I will wait to know the results of the tests.
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    I have to say I still give the IQ to the Fuji. The DR and tonality I still find better. I think I would have had a hard time going this way if Fuji had an X-E3 with silent shutter ready (or X-E2 upgraded to that) and the new smaller F2.0 25mm prime.

    But yeah, I think this OMD is a very "throw at almost any situation camera" and you still can walk out with a nice shot if you know what you are doing.

    -= Ricardo

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Another one who has succumbed to the E-M5II, today. I want something to do what my M240 won't do well i.e. crawling on the floor with grandchildren, and very low light theatre/musical performance. I just have the 12-40mm at the moment (for the former), but will go for the 75mm soon (for the latter). The trigger was playing with the camera at the Photography Show last week and seeing how quick and responsive it is - what the Leica T should have been (and may still be in the next iteration). The controls and menus are a bit intimidating after the M, but should be OK once I've sorted out what I actually need access to. First impression: the IBIS is shockingly effective.

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by LocalHero1953 View Post
    Another one who has succumbed to the E-M5II, today. I want something to do what my M240 won't do well i.e. crawling on the floor with grandchildren, and very low light theatre/musical performance. I just have the 12-40mm at the moment (for the former), but will go for the 75mm soon (for the latter). The trigger was playing with the camera at the Photography Show last week and seeing how quick and responsive it is - what the Leica T should have been (and may still be in the next iteration). The controls and menus are a bit intimidating after the M, but should be OK once I've sorted out what I actually need access to. First impression: the IBIS is shockingly effective.
    I think it's a really fine counterpoint to the M - Good Luck With Yours!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    I think I can close my impressions at this point but I am finding myself liking the camera more and more as I learn the operation parameters for where it shines. It really is a small portable system that can be thrown at any situation and even in the situations where it's not optimal for, you can still walk away with something if you know what you are doing as a photographer.

    Anyway, all cameras are good now. Tradeoff here is a bit of IQ for smaller and the versatility of weather sealed, ibis, articulated LCD, great EVF, and small.

    - Ricardo
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    In comparing this camera to the Fuji's, I liked the XE-2 and thought it was a nice size but just not fast enough and I don't like the X-Trans look, especially as processed in LR. It is definitely better in Iridient but I prefer to stay with LR for now. Of course, if Adobe decides to move to a cloud based LR in the future, it will be bye-bye LR. I'm still not happy with what they did with PS after spending the large sum to purchase CS3 and having them abandon the product with the next major revision. I haven't touched PS since. Additionally, I don't want all of my photos under the control and access of a cloud based program where I don't know what they are doing or might do.
    V/r John
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    If the first image doesn't have you seeing stars, then maybe the second one will. Olympus 14-150 f4-f5.6II lens at 150mm.

    Worth a few stars I would say.



    This one will definitely have you seeing stars!!




    A Six Star Lens!!
    V/r John
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    In comparing this camera to the Fuji's, I liked the XE-2 and thought it was a nice size but just not fast enough and I don't like the X-Trans look, especially as processed in LR. It is definitely better in Iridient but I prefer to stay with LR for now. Of course, if Adobe decides to move to a cloud based LR in the future, it will be bye-bye LR. I'm still not happy with what they did with PS after spending the large sum to purchase CS3 and having them abandon the product with the next major revision. I haven't touched PS since. Additionally, I don't want all of my photos under the control and access of a cloud based program where I don't know what they are doing or might do.
    Turns out you can make Xtrans shine in LR after all, even if not quite all the way to Iridient/Capture One levels all the time. The secret is two bits:

    i) Go to the details section and crank the detail up at least to 75% if not all the way to 100%. On Bayer cameras you see a lot of grainy dot artifacts. On Xtrans you see details. The reason for this has to be with the nature of how the Xtrans and Adobe algorithms respond to the sharpening they do.

    ii) Use the Fuji film simulation color profiles and you don't have to worry about good color.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    In comparing this camera to the Fuji's, I liked the XE-2 and thought it was a nice size but just not fast enough and I don't like the X-Trans look, especially as processed in LR. It is definitely better in Iridient but I prefer to stay with LR for now. Of course, if Adobe decides to move to a cloud based LR in the future, it will be bye-bye LR. I'm still not happy with what they did with PS after spending the large sum to purchase CS3 and having them abandon the product with the next major revision. I haven't touched PS since. Additionally, I don't want all of my photos under the control and access of a cloud based program where I don't know what they are doing or might do.
    Not sure what you mean by a "cloud based LR". Photoshop CC is not "cloud based" ... It is resident on your computer, your photos are where you put them as always. Photoshop CS3 was succeeded by CS4, then CS5, then CS6. CC simply make the licensing subscription based and adds automated incremental updating. The only thing I don't like about CC is that I'd prefer to have the option to buy a perpetual license at a sweet point in the development and just stick with that until next I see enough upgrade to move to the subscription again. Just like I always used to buy CS every other update rather than every time.

    LR is the same, but you can buy a perpetual license instead of a subscription. I've stuck with perpetual since I don't use PS enough nowadays to bother with the subscription updates, and you can only get LR bundled with PS on the subscription. Or at least that's my understanding.

    It's good to hear everyone pleased with the E-M5II. I'm still very happy with the E-M1, and firmware 3 really improved the C-AF and overall focusing with my SLR lenses nicely. But when they roll the new IBIS hardware and pixel-shift capabilities into an updated model of the E-M1 it will be a temptation to update.

    The E-M1 does excellent service as my "technical" camera. I've been using it a lot to do table top work for Ebay sales lately. (First round of sales and all the no longer needed bits for the M9 have sold at my expected prices... :-)

    G

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Godfrey,

    Thanks for clarifying. I misunderstood and thought the software resided on the cloud and was kept current. Nonetheless, I prefer a perpetual license over a fee based structure. I didn't need many of the updates but wanted different cameras to be supported.
    V/r John

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    I agree with everyone's points re. the MkII as a stills camera, especially the near-silent mechanical shutter (let alone the electronic one). Truly sweet. But (as some here know) most of my work is video now, and even though the IBIS works as advertised, there is no manual adjustment of exposure once you are shooting, and ditto for ISO, unless you want to tap and delve into a menu, while recording... No thanks. That was a deal-breaker for me, and I sent it back, and got an LX-100 as my carry-everywhere, dual purpose stills and video cam. The LX-100 shares one flaw with the MkII: 29'59" video recording limit, but I simply restart and manually sync its footage.

    I have three G6 bodies (and a MkI Oly as my el-cheapo Steadycam); the G6s are perfect as video cameras: fully adjustable once recording, no recording limit, and the colours are excellent (and AWB can be warmed or cooled as desired). They are just so ... ugly. And the LX-100 is only marginally better in this regard, but at least it's an excellent B-cam and it shares the same colour palette.

    There have been many, so many, complaints on the more video-centric forums about the MkII's shortcomings that I am sure the MkIII will correct these (as might a firmware update), but I could not wait. We are getting very much closer to the manufacturers delivering what we actually need though, so I am excited. I loved the MkII's form factor, too; it was quite an emotional thing to send it back.
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Jono, are you using the new 14-150ii? And what do you folks think of that lens?

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Not trying to hijack the thread, but what do people think are the best zooms in the approximately 34/45–100/150 range? It's for video, so ƒ2.8 not essential for my needs.

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Gosh this thread is going quiet.

    Now most of you have had the Mk 2 for a while can you give me a view on how much better it is at handling noise at high ASA ratings when compared with the Mk 1.

    It'll cost me almost six hundred UKP to do the swop. Will I see the difference?

    Tony

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Both the EM5 MKII and MKI behave similar at high ISO with one key thing I noticed- at ISO 12800 and up, the MKI could show banding. the MKII doesn't.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Both the EM5 MKII and MKI behave similar at high ISO with one key thing I noticed

    I've never felt worried about banding - so I guess I keep my 600 UKP a bit longer. Thanks Ricardo,
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Sadly, my Mkii plus 12-40mm lens have had to go back - it stuck on MF. AF still worked on a 75mm, so it might be just a lens issue, but I was having trouble with presets and menu choices apparently resetting themselves, so it's difficult to be sure. Those nice people at Wex decided without pressure to swap both (they came as a kit).

    It also happened at an unfortunate moment, just at the start of a musical performance. I'd shot during rehearsals, and had created a preset with AF, high ISO, manual exposure and silent shooting. Once I realisd something had gone wrong, I had to check all the settings again, especially silent shooting, and set up the focus aid - not an easy task at high speed when you're still learning the menus. MF wasn't easy in this scenario as performers moved around, and I lost a number of shots; I didn't realise how much I relied on the use of the focus tab on my genuine (Leica) MF lenses to tell me which way to turn. And reducing the aperture to be sure of getting reasonable focus meant shutter speeds were a bit slow for comfort.

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    it stuck on MF.

    I assume you know that the front slider ring turns this on and off?

    Tony
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    ... by pushing it forward and backward. I am now used to it.
    Same for the 40-150/2.8 Pro lens, if I am not mistaken.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Over the years I found two major pitfalls: the focus ring (lens) and the lock switch (grip).
    Just mind-boggling how they catch you over and over again ...

    Kind regards.
    Bart ...
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Yup, as I didn't read the manual it also took me awhile before I managed to take off the tripod mount ring from the 40-150/2.8 Pro lens without breaking anything!
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonygamble View Post
    it stuck on MF.

    I assume you know that the front slider ring turns this on and off?

    Tony
    Yes, I did - didn't make a difference. But it was difficult to find out: the body+lens kit did not come with a lens manual.

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Well after using a bit on/off the Olympus O-MD EM-5 MKII, some further thoughts...

    - I like the camera a lot, but I just don't love it. For a while it really bothered me because I couldn't put my finger on it. Even now there's still an aspect of that. But I decided not to think this much anymore and just use for a week or two and if I still feel this way, it's time to sell.

    A couple of things I noticed:
    1 - For some reason the camera feels "cramped" usability wise. Also too many features presented at once. I find it distracting.
    2 - To my surprise though the Dynamic Range seems close to the Fuji (X-E1), I still find the Fuji has this "extra" thing. Kind of like things look more metallic/chromic. It's hard to explain.

    I found Capture One 8.2.2 is the closest to getting the OMD to shine in a similar direction and in a couple of shots it' shard to tell. But I did this shot at night of a restaurant with some neon lighting and it was a bit more obvious the Fuji just does this richer color. It's like it can see more color and saturate more yet without feeling over done.

    3- Last week I had to reset the camera because IBIS just stopped working for me when taking shots. I could see the IBIS working in preview, but not at the time of shooting. Shots were getting blurred. Turning on/off didn't do it. I had to reset. I had to put back each setting but some settings like Image text (C) on the Exif remained intact which was good.

    After that good reset IBIS started to work as it used to.

    4 - I am very interested at this point in what seems to be the Fuji XT10. Has electronic shutter which was my turn off from the X-E1. Will be a faster camera than the X-E1 though I doubt it will catch the Olympus in all areas.

    5 - The Olympus was supposed to be my one camera for all work, but I felt I missed the tiny Pentax Q/ Nikon 1 experience. Then Nikon comes in, announces the J5 with a sensor I thought would be decent this time, and effectively it is. I bought one, though this doesn't mean necessarily I sell the OMD- but for now my idea of a single system is not happening and the outcome of two systems- one for street and one for paid work is what goes.

    6- Which brings me back to Fuji. If I am going to have a bigger system than the Nikon 1 for paid work I may as well take the one that seems to me do better overall and still small. That seems for me to be the Fuji.

    7 - The reason I am going to give Olympus another chance is because I have been able to get some shots in real low light at a reasonable ISO thanks to the IBIS, and I do that kind of photography.

    I dont' hate the OMD EM5 MKII. I like it quite a bit. But I just don't seem to bring myself to cross into loving the tool. Something still feels odd to me. Maybe it's a matter to shoot with it some more but I am not seeing something I miss with Fuji. I get the impression also that the Fuji lenses are better. Would be interesting if Olympus follows through with the super fast primes idea, if they can make them old 4/3rds SHG style in quality.

    Finally 8- I am not a fan of the fully articulated LCD. Would have preferred the Fuji XT1/ Olympus OMD EM5 MK1 LCD/ Nikon 1 J5 - it's far more discrete and faster to use on the streets. I understand Olympus wanted to support video graphers but I am not a video guy.


    Anyway.

    - Ricardo
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Allright, I think I am done with my testing. I also think I figured out what combination of things is what I am sort of noticing.

    First I will just say, the Panasonic-Leica 4/3rds F1.4 (original) is a pretty amazing lens. More amazing than I thought. Unexpected: I actually *like* using it on the OMD EM5 MKII, me, the "must have small camera" guy. There's something just "bad @$$" about this combination. Feels like a very solid lens and you can get a lot of what you want while looking pretty retro and mechanical.

    Anyhow. After putting the OMD vs the X-E1 one more time in a bar scenario with nice light, I think I am going to sell the Oly, get the XT10 (or wait until end of year/next year for XE-3 or XT10 mark II).

    What I have noticed is this:
    - For some reason the Olympus, in many shots or areas of shots, doesn't look quite as sharp. Is as if it still had an AA filter. And it's weird because some shots do look like you can see pixels, yet doesn't seem that way. Which leads me to wonder
    - If the lens or sensor (or both) do not show enough micro contrast. That "silver glimmer" I am seeing with Fuji to make lines stand out a bit more and
    - I definitively noticed the Fuji is doing better tone to tone transitions. This is kind of what I would expect from comparing say 12 bit raws vs 14-bit raws, except the Fuji I am using is also a 12bit raw camera (X-E1). I would imagine newer Fuji would look even better here. Maybe it's having a bit less noise and/or a consequence of Xtrans decode.
    - Color looks a notch richer with Fuji
    - The Fuji seems to be capturing a bit wider color gamut better.
    - High ISO/Overall DR is actually pretty close but it's affected by this tonal transition/richer color I am seeing the Fuji do. It's like Fuji can keep that color pizzaz/silver glimmer into the higher iso.

    - I do notice the 4/3rds Panny Leica F1.4 25mm shines better than the Olympus F1.8 25mm.
    - Fuji XF35 definitively seems > Oly F1.8 25mm.

    Life's too short and I want to focus on photography, not on this. Funny to say that because I am sure if I only had the Olympus I would do great work anyway.

    To the Olympus credit, there were a couple of shots were keeping the ISO lower by 2 stops was very nice thanks to the IBIS, and the IBIS does work with the 4/3rd Panny/Leica pretty good. In some ways this alone made me want to keep it, not that I think you can get all street shots this way but there are some more "still moments" and other scenes that can benefit. In the most extreme case I was able to shoot a scene with a few people basically staring at their phone or sky at night all the way down to ISO 200 I think it was (like 3 stops).

    - Ricardo
    Last edited by raist3d; 17th May 2015 at 00:03.
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Well. I said I was going to sell the OMD but I am really trying hard to like it again. There's some scenarios that play well with it so I am undecided. IN the meantime, a self portrait ("selfie") with the old 4/3rds Panny/Leica.



    - Ricardo
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Well. I said I was going to sell the OMD but I am really trying hard to like it again. There's some scenarios that play well with it so I am undecided. IN the meantime, a self portrait ("selfie") with the old 4/3rds Panny/Leica.

    - Ricardo
    Hey Ricardo,

    I think I would keep the Olympus, it is for sure a great camera. And the lenses are just superb.

    I had a similar situation some weeks ago, even considering to sell my EM1 with my 2 Pro lenses, in order to make room for in my case going back completely into the Nikon system. Shooting currently the Df and would have liked to add the D810 and some glass I want. But then I shot the EM1 with the 2.8/40-140 again and the results are just so superb that I decided to keep Olympus.

    So even I will add more Nikon gear in the future, I will keep what I have from Oly and actually hoping for the EM1 Mk2 with rumored 20MP and hopefully same or better IQ as the current 16MP sensor - well there always needs to be hope. But I think the FF Nikon and the m43 system are just great supplements for my type of work. Maybe you can find such a justification for your case too -makes life easier :-))

    Best

    Peter

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by BradA View Post
    Jono, are you using the new 14-150ii? And what do you folks think of that lens?
    I used the 14-150 Mk1 lens extensively and traded it in for the Mk2. The images are slightly better in some light situations but the new lens coatings probably manage this. The real advantage is the weather and dust sealing to match the E-M1 body. It is the perfect lens for travelling light in my view.
    Cheers, Dave
    www.simmondsphotography.com
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Hey Ricardo,

    I think I would keep the Olympus, it is for sure a great camera. And the lenses are just superb.
    I have been looking at the lenses carefully. Part of the lack of pizzaz I have mentioned I think it's the regular primes Olympus has. The F1.8 25mm is sharp but I do see a difference in micro contrast between it and the old 4/3rds Panny Leica. I would love to give the pro zoom a spin because it may have that extra thing I mention.

    I had a similar situation some weeks ago, even considering to sell my EM1 with my 2 Pro lenses, in order to make room for in my case going back completely into the Nikon system. Shooting currently the Df and would have liked to add the D810 and some glass I want. But then I shot the EM1 with the 2.8/40-140 again and the results are just so superb that I decided to keep Olympus.

    So even I will add more Nikon gear in the future, I will keep what I have from Oly and actually hoping for the EM1 Mk2 with rumored 20MP and hopefully same or better IQ as the current 16MP sensor - well there always needs to be hope. But I think the FF Nikon and the m43 system are just great supplements for my type of work. Maybe you can find such a justification for your case too -makes life easier :-))
    Thanks for the comments. To me it boils down to three things it seems:

    1- The extra pizzaz I am seeing in the Fuji images. Just better color, micro contrast, biting sharp, easier highlight curve and all easier to deal from RAW also when using a raw converter that does x trans well.

    2- The Olympus general extra unnecessary usability (UI) complexity.

    3- The full articulated screen vs vertical only articulated. I find vertical only much better/faster to deal for street life.

    The things that pull me to keep the Olympus over the Fuji

    1- I like small cameras and systems. The Fuji X-T10 sure is small but the lens system, as a whole, isn't when compared to the Olympus m4/3rds. Though there are some overlaps like the XF35 vs Panny Leica m/43rds F1.4.

    But I look at Fuji's new XF90 F2.0 and that's much bigger than the Olympus 75mm F1.8. Same with the high end zooms though I wouldn't mind using the Fuji standard 18-55mm zoom as it is quite good.

    2- The IBIS in some situations really works really good.

    3- Overall speed, response and how well the OMD can focus in low light.

    4- (small) - I can use my 4/3rds lenses in manual focus reasonably well and they rock.

    I still think that the images with the Fuji are better. But I remind myself I was doing great images with a Q and wonder if I am putting too much weight into it. But they sure to me have a certain look I am not seeing as often in m4/3rds.


    Best

    Peter

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Thanks for the comments. To me it boils down to three things it seems:

    1- The extra pizzaz I am seeing in the Fuji images. Just better color, micro contrast, biting sharp, easier highlight curve and all easier to deal from RAW also when using a raw converter that does x trans well.
    Hi there Ricardo,

    That extra pizzaz - is it coming from the sensor only ?
    I took some interest in the new X-T10, just contemplating a purchase ...
    Of course I do like my E-M1 and lenses, but I feel the images just don't compare to my K5-IIs or A7r images.

    TIA

    Kind regards.
    Bart ...

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Hi Ricardo,

    I do wonder, when you're considering how one system compares to another in terms of 'pizazz' and micro contrast... how much of that difference could disappear with a particular image processing chain.

    I guess I'm suggesting, more time spent improving your post processing / settings could move your focus to choosing the camera that feels best in use, without feeling that you've lost anything in terms of image quality.

    Cheers

    Brian
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII: my cat Leo and friend

    They look friendly, but it did not end well for the snake





    M5vii, 40-150/2.8

    scott
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Hi there Ricardo,

    That extra pizzaz - is it coming from the sensor only ?
    I took some interest in the new X-T10, just contemplating a purchase ...
    Of course I do like my E-M1 and lenses, but I feel the images just don't compare to my K5-IIs or A7r images.

    TIA

    Kind regards.
    At this point it seems to me it comes from a triad- 1 the Xtrans lenses are amazing. 2 The sensor having the ability to not wear an AA filter minimizing color moire. It's also of course a bigger sensor, so some characteristics are a bit better. It can have its artifacts but also its benefits- like more green (B&W/detail), all colors on every row and column. 3 - Fuji's processing. They have done film since forever and they know their stuff.

    But saying all this, all cameras today are great, so if you do prefer one look over the other, or something that makes it easy for you to get it from RAW pick that and ignore the rest. What I can say speaking for myself, is that Fuji does very well the curve into highlights. It introduces a way for things to mix in well for a not os digital look and color pops the right way

    Fuji images just pop and have a certain color I am not seeing easy to get in the OMD.

    The shot below is with my X-E1 and it was shot in challenging light.



    - Ricardo
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Hi Ricardo,

    I do wonder, when you're considering how one system compares to another in terms of 'pizazz' and micro contrast... how much of that difference could disappear with a particular image processing chain.
    It can certainly be influenced by that. I found Capture One Pro 8.2.2 gives me results closer to what I would like to see with the OMD than LightRoom.

    I guess I'm suggesting, more time spent improving your post processing / settings could move your focus to choosing the camera that feels best in use, without feeling that you've lost anything in terms of image quality.

    Cheers

    Brian
    Well, I am not new to post processing and if a camera makes it "harder" for me to get the look I want, it's a big minus. If you ask me about which camera feels best in use the Fuji would win on the usability contest- Olympus just have made their cameras more complex than they should be. I am still looking at the IBIS and the overall system size as the Olympus things that make me want to reconsider.

    But here's a couple of more data points: I notice a difference between the m/43rds prime lenses (at least the F1.8 25mm) and the 4/3rds lenses (50mm-200mm standard telephoto, Panny Leica 25mm F1.4, F2.0 50mm macro). This tells me that the lenses at least at the "standard" level more often than not are not what we used to see with original 4/3rds. From the beginning Olympus/Panny mentioned challenges with m4/3rds lenses - that's why he standard got expanded with software corrections and tele centricity is gone. Tele centricity gave the 4/3rd sensors more polarized light from the get go.

    Dpreview may think that doesn't matter but I sure see some differences. Optical correction will always be better - no pixel stretching.

    I also noticed that chromatic aberrations which are a rarity with Olympus 4/3rd lenses, are actually kinda common place (relatively speaking) in m4/3rds.

    So part of this the lenses are in the equation. There are two patents I think of Olympus considering doing "super fast primes" (F1.0) lenses for the system and I can only hope they get to the "pro" category denomination, and have those "extra diamond crystals" Olympus knows from the 4/3ds SHG lens line. ;-)

    More interesting - the Nikon 1 J4/J5 get me a look that in a way is more crisp than the average I am getting with the Olympus. This made me question if the OMD EM5 MKII really has no AA filter. IT's as if it still had a very weak one. Maybe it doesn't have one but the RAW files are a bit processed to avoid color moire? No idea.

    Finally, the Fuji files I am comparing are from an X-E1. This camera does 12-bit RAW and does not feature an improvement in circuitry around the lens that would reduce in later models some color noise. If the X-E1 looks this good, an X-T10 will look a notch even better with 14-bit RAW and the circuitry improvement. Which I must say sounds very appealing.

    Now, putting it all together in perspective again- all cameras today are good and the files of the OMD are hardly bad. They are pretty good. It's just that the output I am seeing from the Fuji and how easy it is to get there seems a notch higher. Many may not see this. Or don't care, that's cool. Unfortunately (for me) I see it, and I want it. Yes, this is a first world problem :-)

    Eventually I'll get fed up with this fence and make a choice. ;-) For now I cancelled my X-T10 pre-order and going to give the Olympus a bit of a longer trial, and see if I am ok with it. Certainly getting out and shoot with *any* camera is far more important for a good photograph than splitting the hairs on this.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Brian- forgot to explain this aspect. Your suggestion is a good one and I have also been trying that approach with the OMD. Just don't think it takes away from what I said above per se, but it's certainly one thing to try and push.

    I got some degree of success in that direction changing how I approach the OMD raw development and in an attempt to get a better out of camera JPEG B&W that I like more I got a few things better. The self-portrait above has some of that along with using the Panny/Leica 4/3rds 25mm F1.4.

    I like the B&W in these two shots but they were also shot with the 75mm F1.8 which is a step above from the other primes.






    - Ricardo
    Last edited by raist3d; 6th June 2015 at 16:36.

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    So got a small job for to shoot some portraits for an actress. I picked the OMD because as I said, I really want to like it. I put the F2.0 50mm 4/3rds and the 75mm F1.8 m/43rds lens in the bag. All shots were made with the 75mm.

    I threw in my old "first lens evar" 4/3rds 14-54 just in case I needed to go wide. But I took a few shots as test somewhere else when we were done. Once again, the 4/3rd lenses seem to have extra blue crystals. The 75mm F1.8 is a darn awesome lens though.

    The other primes (the super fast primes hopefully) need to be made to the 75mm standard. No CA's please.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    I did a quick search on m43rd tele centricity and found this comment on original 4/3rds spec:

    "First generation Zuiko Digital were telecentric which meant Olympus vowed the lightrays were everywhere on the sensor at most 7 deg away from the right angle. That added to cost and bulk, so later designs eg m43 were apparently not so strict. I could not find any figures though. With the new back-illuminated sensor telecentricity will not be so decisive anyway.
    "

    Well, there are zero m4/3rd back-illuminated sensors so far. The whole at most 7 degrees makes a lot of sense (found another comment saying it was < 8 degrees which is basically saying the same) for the original 4/3rds standard.

    And as I mentioned again, I noticed a "something" even in a simple shot I took with my 14-54. I need to make sure i compare well with the F1.8 25mm m4/3rd lens I have to make sure I am not falling in an exaggerated effect due to a placebo effect, but seems that way.

    Makes a lot of sense. I wonder what Fuji is doing on their lens side of this, but whatever they are doing is working.

    - Ricardo
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Hi Ricardo,

    It's interesting to see where your comments of one format / system giving more 'pop' 'pizazz' or in other ways 'better' image quality than another, but they're all so good these days that I feel we can probably give more weight to how the camera feels, weighs, works for us out in the field.

    When you say that one camera just can't give you the same output as another, wouldn't that statement apply equally in both directions? They're just both different, and if you like the characteristics of one over the other - fantastic, you have your choice!

    If we consider the image processing chain as the lens / image sensor / image processor in the camera / post processing using any number of tools then 'pop' 'pizazz' colour signature, colour transitions tend to fall where they may.

    Image Quality is probably quite straightforward to compare, though very technical - for both sensors and lenses. Beyond that, in our real world use we have to work with the image processing chain to get 'the look' we prefer.

    Shoot jpeg and focus on the subject

    Kind regards

    Brian
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Hi Ricardo,

    It's interesting to see where your comments of one format / system giving more 'pop' 'pizazz' or in other ways 'better' image quality than another, but they're all so good these days that I feel we can probably give more weight to how the camera feels, weighs, works for us out in the field.
    Certainly understandable. My comments above also touch on this. Keep in mind on how a camera feels the Fuji to me comes quite forward for its usability. The interface is much more clear and photographer oriented than the Olympus, much more organized, and the articulated LCD which the OMD EM5 1 had, is better to me for street work than the fully articulated one.

    When you say that one camera just can't give you the same output as another, wouldn't that statement apply equally in both directions? They're just both different, and if you like the characteristics of one over the other - fantastic, you have your choice!
    Well yes and in a way no :-) I mean, I agree in some ways with what you just said, and I did point this out- that I didn't mean to say that the OMD out put is bad and if you personally like one look over the other go for it and ignore the rest. I mentioned that.

    But speaking for myself, I do notice something Fuji is doing that I am not quite seeing in the Olympus or as easy to get with the Olympus. Do keep in mind that the Fuji does have 14 bit RAW and it's a bigger sensor- that does put a distinct foot forward when it comes to image quality from the sensor if you are after that. In my case I don't care much for "ultimate image quality" as much as "result that looks best" which may or may not be tied the same way.

    I mentioned for example, I was noticing the "crisp" I was looking for from the J4/J5 Nikon 1. That alone does say something because the Nikon 1 is also bound by the sensor size, the the Olympus vs the Fuji.

    If we consider the image processing chain as the lens / image sensor / image processor in the camera / post processing using any number of tools then 'pop' 'pizazz' colour signature, colour transitions tend to fall where they may.
    Yes, but it's also no less true that certainly Fuji seems to have done an outstanding job with their lenses and Xtrans has its set of characteristics. You also can't get away from 14-bit raw vs 12-bit raw when it comes to tonal gradation.

    But that said, what you said above certainly influences.

    Image Quality is probably quite straightforward to compare, though very technical - for both sensors and lenses. Beyond that, in our real world use we have to work with the image processing chain to get 'the look' we prefer.
    And as I said, I noticed a distinct metal chromic pizzaz I see with the Fuji but not seeing with the Olympus. Fuji in my eyes has at this point the best JPEG engine in the market (Olympus is the close second to my eyes), and the lenses they have are simply outstanding. I gravitate towards the camera whose RAWS give the look I want without having to pull out my hair.

    Keep in mind what I noticed- old 4/3rd lenses seems to do what I was in some ways wanting to see. This has now led me to do a more closer examination of the m/43d lenses and see if there's lenses around that go more of what I see.

    Shoot jpeg and focus on the subject

    Kind regards

    Brian
    I am going to totally agree with you getting out and shooting is better by far than sitting in a place doing comparisons. But I am not new to photography and I do get out and shoot. Of course this is something that just saps some energy until I go with a final choice.

    I want to give the OMD a fair handshake. The Fuji is a no brainer choice for any focal at 50mm or below for me now that the X-T10 is coming out since it's also so small. It's when you go up that the size starts going bigger and bigger.

    - Ricardo
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    Re: OMD E-M5 MKII impressions

    Well well well... Let's say I have borrowed the Panny-Leica 15mm F1.7 wide prime and it's pretty clear I am dealing with a superior being. Hoo-hay, this lens is a sharpie and has nice contrast. And comes with a metal hood.

    What I expected to see & wanted to see, looks like I am seeing. Sorry to keep everyone in the dark but I will try and post a couple of shots later. But let's say if this is how the Panny-Leica primes do on this system- the ones with their super nano coated blue crystals from the Europa moon, this is more like it and definitively buying these brand of lenses.

    Shame on Olympus for letting Panasonic beat them at their own game. I can only imagine the Olympus Pro line does this too. They need to get a Pro line of primes. Maybe these will be those super-fast primes, but since I have been not so impressed with the F1.8 25mm, I am not going to touch with a ten foot pole the 17mm F1.8 which some have found more "meh," and the rest until a high quality prime (other than the 75mm) comes out.

    I need to check some shots from the 25mm F1.4. I may sway this way and keep on Olympus then, but with Panasonic primes.

    The following is written aimed at Knorp:

    @Knorp- m4/3rds everything else equal will not match your K5-IIs/K-3 and definitively not the Fuji's. Failure to acknowledge this around the net is what I call the m4/3rds inferiority complex- the system is good enough for a wide range of work and pro work, those other cameras everything else equal will out do it in sensor, and that should be more than fine. But looks like people still want to say it's all the same- it's not.

    You can say you have to pick carefully the lenses to make the K5 mount shine, but with the Fuji virtually all their entire line up is excellent and A-class. So that doesn't quite apply to Fuji. But that's ok.

    My main concern when I brought this up at the beginning was not that m4/3rd doesn't match Fuji- I know it won't quite match it. But that I felt that something was just missing when I looked at my 25mm F1.8 prime shots. Something I expected m4/3rds to do. And the 4/3rd lenses mounted on the OMD sort of pointed in that direction. Looks like this little Panny Leica is proving the point quite more so and it's a system native.

    I was able to physically see the Fuji F1.2 XF57mm lens and the XF23mm lenses. These are F1.2/F1.4 lenses that are superb. They are not huge, but compared to the analogous m/43rds they sure seemed big. I guess you would say the nocticron is the true XF57 equivalent, but I think you could make some accommodations to compare an F1.7/F1.8 as an option, particularly with the IBIS that the F1.2 doesn't have for some situations.

    In the end I need to remind myself all camera systems are a compromise in some way. I value small so that weights in favor of m4/3rds. And I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a weeding with the OMD in terms of sensor IQ since I shot several with an e-420/e-620 which had a clear worse sensor (but apparently better lenses :-) ).

    What I give up on the Fuji I gain in size and faster overall response. It's tough as the newer Fuji's are responding faster than their previous models, but the size is one thing that isn't going away. Also future m/43rd sensors will be better. I think we are in a "within 2 years" of a change that will improve things maybe not in a mega jump way but a nice way.

    Anyhow, just speaking for myself. Ill try to get some Panny super hyper nano crystal lens shots :-)

    - Ricardo
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