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Thread: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

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    Arrow 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    Let's keep fingers crossed for this to come true ...

    New Sony 20mp four thirds sensor

    Bart ...
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    Senior Member mediumcool's Avatar
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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    No appreciable enlargeability advantage over 16MP (25% more) and the low-light ability may well suffer, as it did when Pentax moved from a 16MP sensor to the 24MP unit in the K-3.

    So, a yawn from me.

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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    Well, tech advances, so it may be possible it moves to 20 MP and keep same quality. Also I don't quite a free that moving from 16 to 20 is not appreciable. I would agree it's not a night and day difference but 25% is something that can help with cropping or just that little extra.

    - Ricardo
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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    hmm would rather see a faster implementation of Olympus's sensor shift 40MP capability that can say capture a full set of multiple exposures in say 1/60 of a second
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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    I'm wondering what the current (e-pl7/m10/e-m5II/e-m1) olympus sensors are. Sony? Something else. Does olympus make their own sensors. Forgive the ignorance. I haven't paid much attention to what and where since I've never owned an olympus digital. But lately, thinking of adding the e-m10 with the olympus 25 f1.8 to my ricoh gr for basic street shooting. I really like the 28mm of the gr, but want 50 and/or even the 90mm from the 45mm f1.8...

    Over a year ago I did start some basic research into olympus but wound up with the gr. I'm back looking for a small/body lens combo with some more flexibility. A lot of the images I see posted here tell me the 16mp sensor and lens quality from olympus is enough for the work I do and the print size. I print, envisage, my images small. Probably 11x14 inch max.

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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    Quote Originally Posted by momo View Post
    I'm wondering what the current (e-pl7/m10/e-m5II/e-m1) olympus sensors are. Sony? Something else. Does olympus make their own sensors. Forgive the ignorance. I haven't paid much attention to what and where since I've never owned an olympus digital. But lately, thinking of adding the e-m10 with the olympus 25 f1.8 to my ricoh gr for basic street shooting. I really like the 28mm of the gr, but want 50 and/or even the 90mm from the 45mm f1.8...

    Over a year ago I did start some basic research into olympus but wound up with the gr. I'm back looking for a small/body lens combo with some more flexibility. A lot of the images I see posted here tell me the 16mp sensor and lens quality from olympus is enough for the work I do and the print size. I print, envisage, my images small. Probably 11x14 inch max.
    The first Olympus bodies were using a Panasonic 12MB sensor that wasn't very good. Things changed completely when the first E-M5 was issued with a Sony 16MB sensor. That sensor is still used in the E-M5 II (plus all the current bodies you listed) and it was a real game changer. More DR, less noise and a little more resolution. That, added to the 5axis stabilisation makes the OMDs very good all round cameras. With fast lenses it is up to the APSC performances of Canon bodies for instance.
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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    Hi Anna T, and thanks for this info...

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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    Quote Originally Posted by momo View Post
    I'm wondering what the current (e-pl7/m10/e-m5II/e-m1) olympus sensors are. Sony? Something else. Does olympus make their own sensors. Forgive the ignorance. I haven't paid much attention to what and where since I've never owned an olympus digital. But lately, thinking of adding the e-m10 with the olympus 25 f1.8 to my ricoh gr for basic street shooting. I really like the 28mm of the gr, but want 50 and/or even the 90mm from the 45mm f1.8...

    Over a year ago I did start some basic research into olympus but wound up with the gr. I'm back looking for a small/body lens combo with some more flexibility. A lot of the images I see posted here tell me the 16mp sensor and lens quality from olympus is enough for the work I do and the print size. I print, envisage, my images small. Probably 11x14 inch max.
    Don’t forget Panasonic lenses—I have a 20/1.7 which I used for a few years on my Lumix G3 (now a backup body), and now on my Olympus E-M5, and it’s a ripper. There are others too. Three of my lenses are adapted 4/3 zooms, along with a Zuiko 50mm f/2 Macro. All outstanding even wide open, apart from the el-cheapo 40–150 f/3.5–4.5; it needs to be closed down a stop or more at longer focal lengths.

    At 150ppi, the E-M5 (and others) will print to 23" x 30" with care, and no cropping.

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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    m43 has been stuck with their16 Mpx sensor for so long now, they really need to increase resolution and reduce noise to remain competitive. In my opinion a jump to 24 Mpx and base ISO of 100 or even 64 (like Nikon D810) would be a good not to say overdue, move.

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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    The ... first E-M5 was issued with a Sony 16MB sensor. That sensor is still used in the E-M5 II (plus all the current bodies you listed) and it was a real game changer. More DR, less noise and a little more resolution. That, added to the 5-axis stabilisation makes the OMDs very good all round cameras. With fast lenses it is up to the APSC performances of Canon bodies for instance.
    Not "all of the bodies" : notably, at least, is the E-M1 which uses the Pany GH4's sensor, if I understand correctly. (And one poster on LuLa praises the Sony vs. Pany (vs even the 1Dx & others) for its clean color.) Thus, it'll be interesting to see how the E-M1 is upgraded.

    As for future sensors, rather than just bumping 4/3 to 20mpx, what if an APS-C? 24mpx sensor were used to implement true multi-aspect (1:1, 5:4, 4:3, 3:2, 16:9 (2:1?)) captures for the 4/3 image circle? (I don't know what this implies in resolution per framing.)


    -d.

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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    Quote Originally Posted by drofnad View Post
    Not "all of the bodies" : notably, at least, is the E-M1 which uses the Pany GH4's sensor, if I understand correctly. (And one poster on LuLa praises the Sony vs. Pany (vs even the 1Dx & others) for its clean color.) Thus, it'll be interesting to see how the E-M1 is upgraded.

    As for future sensors, rather than just bumping 4/3 to 20mpx, what if an APS-C? 24mpx sensor were used to implement true multi-aspect (1:1, 5:4, 4:3, 3:2, 16:9 (2:1?)) captures for the 4/3 image circle? (I don't know what this implies in resolution per framing.)


    -d.
    Thats a really interesting idea and shouldn't cost an arm and a leg to implement.

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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    Quote Originally Posted by drofnad View Post
    Not "all of the bodies" : notably, at least, is the E-M1 which uses the Pany GH4's sensor, if I understand correctly. (And one poster on LuLa praises the Sony vs. Pany (vs even the 1Dx & others) for its clean color.) Thus, it'll be interesting to see how the E-M1 is upgraded.


    -d.

    Hmm, you certain the E-M1 uses the same sensor as the Pany GH4? The E-M1 has PDAF on parts of the sensor, whereas the GH4 does not.
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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    Re sensor equivalence, no, I don't know if GH4 = E-M1 (Google turns up things others can pursue, but I saw a guess? that ... = GX7, too). But I think that Pany as the source and not Sony is the sure bet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Kerfoot View Post
    Thats a really interesting idea and shouldn't cost an arm and a leg to implement.
    Re the multi-aspect idea, starting w/1:1 as max and getting progressively more rectangular common framings (I think 5:4, 4:3, 3:2, 16:9 make sense) of the lens's image circle, if I've done my math correctly, the short side of APS-C is 15.7mm and the 1:1 4/3 side is 15.3. And ... I think that this implies an approx. 63% of APS-C real estate for the square 4/3 (max), which of 24mpx comes to less than 16mpx --> 15, 14.5?, 14.25, 14, 13-ish for that framing set (I only figured the square, and then my personal, rusty-dusty Pythagoras had to go for a nap).

    I certainly MUCH like this selection in the LX3/7s I most often use. (And I cannot fathom how folks live well w/o, or w/just primes vs. zoom, but ... . ). Google led me to some discussion in which a fuller multi-aspect idea was advanced where seemingly the main point was to obviate rotating a camera for portrait -vs- landscape shooting --rather, one would just flip the frame captured ... . This, though, requires a much larger sensor, to get the wides in both orientations. And it would stand such a camera at odds with common, habitual practices, and so likely be hard to *learn*. But having the various framings as options in one orientation seems quite beneficial, IMO, rather than cropping. (It's a separate question of whether such a camera might deliver a full, vignetted capture on which all framings could be extracted in PP, or just that selected via viewfinding --possibly this choice could be made in set-up. One fellow whined about "lost pixels" not used ... : so what? The camera has a cost, and you figure whether it's worth it to you, never mind the unused pixel (or whether magical elves rearrange the pixels efficiently per framing!).

    I just don't find the world offering to me only one view vs. others (though, newly of late, I seem to be seeing squarely a lot).


    -d.

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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    Quote Originally Posted by drofnad View Post

    As for future sensors, rather than just bumping 4/3 to 20mpx, what if an APS-C? 24mpx sensor were used to implement true multi-aspect (1:1, 5:4, 4:3, 3:2, 16:9 (2:1?)) captures for the 4/3 image circle? (I don't know what this implies in resolution per framing.)


    -d.
    It is a good idea, and Panasonic already had an oversized sensor in the GH1 and GH2, giving different aspect ratios with only a slight reduction in megapixels. My GH2 was used mostly at 16:9, which was very convenient when carrying it together with the GH3 that didn't have an oversized sensor.

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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    I don't participate in the "more is always better" way of thinking.

    I have 5, 12, 16, and 24 Mpixel cameras currently. The Olympus E-M1 produces superb results; it's sensitivity:noise ratio compares on par with the Sony A7 right up to ISO 6400, IMO. And, frankly, I like its output on color and dynamic range more than I like the A7's. I need more sensitivity than ISO 6400 on such rare occasion that I'd rather they put their effort into even better responsiveness, the new IBIS micro control, etc.

    20Mpixel would be nice, if it can be had with no loss to the current excellent sensor performance.

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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    Quote Originally Posted by drofnad View Post
    Not "all of the bodies" : notably, at least, is the E-M1 which uses the Pany GH4's sensor, if I understand correctly. (And one poster on LuLa praises the Sony vs. Pany (vs even the 1Dx & others) for its clean color.) Thus, it'll be interesting to see how the E-M1 is upgraded.
    Quite right - that's what I understood as well . . . at least, that the E-M1 sensor was made by panasonic and not by Sony - don't know about the E-M5 mk II though.
    Quote Originally Posted by drofnad View Post
    As for future sensors, rather than just bumping 4/3 to 20mpx, what if an APS-C? 24mpx sensor were used to implement true multi-aspect (1:1, 5:4, 4:3, 3:2, 16:9 (2:1?)) captures for the 4/3 image circle? (I don't know what this implies in resolution per framing.)


    -d.
    This wouldn't work with the existing lenses - because they're designed for the 4/3 image circle - if you used an APS-C sensor you'd get chronic vignetting at the edges of the frame in 3:2 mode - which is why APS-C lenses are noticeably larger than 4/3 . . nice idea though

    . . . I quite agree about 20mp though - it would be nice just to have a little extra resolution - to my mind 24mp is still the optimum balance between what you need and what you want!

    all the best

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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    Quote Originally Posted by drofnad View Post
    But having the various framings as options in one orientation seems quite beneficial, IMO, rather than cropping.
    With the Leica M, using live view, you can press between showing framelines for the different ratios - useful.

    Personally I'm happy to crop - at least you don't lose anything that way!

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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    I dither between 3:2 and 4:3, but what I THINK
    I would really like, is a camera that detects its orientation
    and switches automatically between 3:2 for my 'landscape' shots
    and 4:3 for my 'portrait' shots.
    Ian.
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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elderly View Post
    I dither between 3:2 and 4:3, but what I THINK
    I would really like, is a camera that detects its orientation
    and switches automatically between 3:2 for my 'landscape' shots
    and 4:3 for my 'portrait' shots.
    I do the same and find 1:1 useful if you can't decide which to use due to having to shoot quickly. You can make the aspect decision via a crop in post.

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    Re: 20MP 43rds Sony sensor coming ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    This wouldn't work with the existing lenses --because they're designed for the 4/3 image circle--: if you used an APS-C sensor you'd get chronic vignetting at the edges of the frame in 3:2 mode - which is why APS-C lenses are noticeably larger than 4/3 . . nice idea though
    ?! But it DOES work, on the GH1/2, right? (I might be misunderstanding what comes with "APS-C sensor" : I mean only its size/real-estate, but particular pixel-fetching per image would need to be worked for 4/3 multi-aspect sizes.)

    The suggestion for the APS-C sensor was to have something oversized via-a-vis the 4/3 4:3 image capture, so that you retain the (full) 4/3 lens image-circle diameter as whatever framing's diagonal. This has been done in a restricted sense --i.e., from (squarest) 4:3 to (least-square) 16:9-- by Pany for the GH1/2 & LX(n) series --which, as you know with your D-Lux (typ 109) loses real estate of its 16mpx 4/3 sensor just to fit it all in.
    Hence the suggestion of using APS-C, which I think I correctly see by physical size can capture the tallest (1:1) 4/3 frame, and is wider than even 2:1. One doesn't suffer vignetting if the capture only reaches for pixels within the image circle & framing, right? One must go larger than a 4/3 sensor if wanting both the full range of framings seen previous (to get extra width) AND esp. to get the added height for 1:1 --and these are quite valid framings. (I too tire of seeing things that smack of being coerced by the tyranny of 3:2 (and resistance to cropping that). (In my own shooting w/D40, I realize that some pics w/too stingy vertical reach were likely results of wanting to avoid what lay left & right --of not thinking "get what you need, crop later!" when I shot; w/LX3 & 7, I will adjust framing : 10-9.5-9mpx, but 7.5 @1:1 --where I lose image circle.)

    Beyond the sensor, though, the lens-hood biased petals impose a rectangle, perhaps --does that impinge on 1:1? ... sandpaper ...

    Now, to my dusty-Pythagoras figurings above for a 24mpx current sensor, which concluded slightly UNDER 16mpx for even 1:1, I should suggest the Latest-Greatest (tm) Samsung NX1 28mpx APS-C "backlit" sensor, which in my crude figuring would give top/square size some 17mpx and then reduce going through 5:4 - 4:3 - 3:2 - 16:9 (- 2:1).

    Personally I'm happy to crop - at least you don't lose anything that way!
    Well, it's a matter of perspective what one has and what one thus is losing : w/o what I suggest & Pany once did for "true" multi-aspect of a lens's image circle, you do lose some of that --you have a compromised/reduced diagonal via cropping; or, as seen in the LX100 etc., you lose some bits on the silicon (for the LX100, we can believe that its lens is <4/3 circle, enabling speed w/less bulk; with the GH2, it had to be a larger sensor as 4/3 lenses work on it).

    -d.

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