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Thread: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

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    Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    I am still shooting DSLR and want to use lighter equipment but NOT sacrifice Image Quality, Just wondering if there any one using 4/3 for weddings and Portraits. Thanks

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    Senior Member mediumcool's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Depends how big you and your clients want to go with prints. m4/3 maxes out at 16MP. Bigger formats can get smoother high-ISOs too.

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    IME, unless you're involved with big wedding productions where the clients want video, 20x40 inch presentation billboards, etc, FourThirds format cameras do just as well as any others. I shot two-three weddings with the L1 and E-1 back in the day (7.5 and 5 Mpixel), and another couple with the E-5 (12 Mpixel). I've made up to 20x24" presentation prints with the E-1.

    No one has ever looked at any of the photos and expressed that they were disappointed with them. When I see these clients today, they often mention how nice the book and prints I made for them were.

    There's no reason you can't do the same with any of the better Micro-FourThirds cameras appropriate to the task today. Cameras like the Olympus E-M1, E-M5II, Panasonic GH4, etc, are all responsive, sensitive, and have plenty of resolution for enormous prints. They all allow some measure of video foo as well, the Panasonics in particular.

    For wedding work, any of them coupled with two-three good, fast lenses, plenty of batteries, plenty of storage, and an assistant or two to help with lighting, stage management (for video capture), etc, will do the job IMO.

    Doing weddings itself ... eh, not for me any more. I didn't like it much when I did it in my youth, was reluctant when I did it in the last decade, and now it's just too much stuff I'm not interested in to do it any more. ;-)

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    I'm sure that some wedding photographers would never venture into m4/3, while others have jumped in with both feet.

    https://weddingphotographybest.wordp.../tag/micro-43/

    http://m43.co/stunning-wedding-photo...cro-43-system/

    http://www.mu-43.com/threads/61628/
    Best regards,
    John.
    http://jburnett.ca

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    I have used the EM1 for several event shootings, mainly in combination with 2.8/12-40, 1.8/75 and 1.8/17. This combination just rocks! It is more a question which RAW software you are using to get stellar results especially in low light, so I have had slightly better output from using C1Pro than LR, although LR is pretty close and in some cases maybe more convenient. But C1Pro gives outstanding results even when using up to ISO 8000.

    For normal sized prints up to 50cm x 70cm there is absolutely no issues. If you need larger even upsizing works pretty fine, both from LR as well as C1Pro.

    And AF is lightning fast, especially face detection is a very welcome and excellent working feature.

    Plus the EM1 has decent video already, no need to go for something else, especially the IBIS is a very helpful feature in this context! Sure the EM5II may be better for video, but I prefer the handling of the EM1 and as mentioned video is just enough for normal event shooting. If you need more than the GH4 will definitely be the best for video!

    So YES, this is be a perfect camera system for weddings and any kind of events, covering stills AND video IMHO!
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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    ptomsu, you mention video from the E-M1 and E-M5ii. While i find the IBIS fantastic for video, I cannot seem to find way to apply full manual controls when recording video.

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    ptomsu, you mention video from the E-M1 and E-M5ii. While i find the IBIS fantastic for video, I cannot seem to find way to apply full manual controls when recording video.
    I used the EM1 only in auto mode, not manual, so I cannot comment on this.

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I used the EM1 only in auto mode, not manual, so I cannot comment on this.
    thanks, does anyone have any insight to whether it is possible for instance to control aperture, shutter and ISO while recording on the fly?

    My old Sony NEX 5r allows for full manual control which can be useful for controlling depth of field real time while recording video.

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    thanks, does anyone have any insight to whether it is possible for instance to control aperture, shutter and ISO while recording on the fly?

    My old Sony NEX 5r allows for full manual control which can be useful for controlling depth of field real time while recording video.
    I assume the Panasonic G7 can do that, and since it has superior video quality to the Olympus bodies anyway, it's and interesting backup/supplemental camera to an E-M1.

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    indeed Panasonic make the better video body in the m43 realm. I wonder though whats the difference between say the old hacked GH2, and G7 in terms of video quality?

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    indeed Panasonic make the better video body in the m43 realm. I wonder though whats the difference between say the old hacked GH2, and G7 in terms of video quality?
    Higher bit rate, 4K, better high ISO, faster processing, two command wheels and generally better ergonomics, better viewfinder. There's more, but I don't remember all.

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rollsman44 View Post
    I am still shooting DSLR and want to use lighter equipment but NOT sacrifice Image Quality, Just wondering if there any one using 4/3 for weddings and Portraits. Thanks
    For me, portrait work is less demanding regarding size of gear used. (I do most of that work with a Leica S, and a Hasselblad before that). IMO, weddings are where size/weight tends to be an issue because of the amount of time lugging it around, and amount of movement around different venues.

    RE: Your question … Not enough info about how and what you shoot when doing wedding work, how you post process and/or retouch … and perhaps more importantly, how you deliver weddings to a client. I think it involves more than just IQ.

    For example, I tend to shoot very spontaneously with an emphasis on human expression over precise framing … so I tend to shoot loose and crop. (This looser framing is also done to accommodate cropping to more standard reproduction sizes like 5X7 and 8X10). For me the FF 18 to 24 meg DSLR/SLT cameras have been ideal for that reason. Prior to that, lower res cameras limited my creative options especially at higher ISOs.

    The other question I would ask is how well any alternative camera auto focuses compared to your current DSLR, especially in lower light … AND how well is lighting supported by an alternative system. One of the biggest draw backs of alternative systems other than Canikon is that no one makes state of the art accessories for them. Even Sony sucks when it comes to new technology that makes a wedding shooter's life easier. Canikon always gets the new stuff (from simple radio triggers to more sophisticated aids like Profoto AIR TTL).

    Lastly is actual print quality rather than sub one meg web views. 50% of my clients do albums, and my albums are 12" X 18" open spreads where I frequently place a full image … extended family group shots included.

    I'm at the end of my 20+ year Pro Wedding run … but if I were starting today with what I've learned and given the state of current gear … I'd do a Canon or Nikon DSLR, carefully limit the lenses, and use a roller bag with a separate lens bag for mobility.

    But that is just me, and the way I shoot, process, and deliver wedding work. YMMY.

    - Marc
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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    thanks, does anyone have any insight to whether it is possible for instance to control aperture, shutter and ISO while recording on the fly?

    My old Sony NEX 5r allows for full manual control which can be useful for controlling depth of field real time while recording video.
    Just tried yesterday and I could not make my EM1 with latest FW allow to adjust aperture or shutter speed during video. What it does - and this pretty perfect - adjust exposure automatically, but that's it.

    What I really like about the EM1 video is the presence of the IBIS, which makes shake free video a breeze! So for the video I am doing so far, the EM1 is just perfect and the EM5II should just be better again.

    But if one is looking for a more pro or semi-pro video machine, there are definitely better solutions out there for sure - maybe the highly praised GH4 or G7 or some of the Sony A7-series bodies, but I have no experience with those.

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Just tried yesterday and I could not make my EM1 with latest FW allow to adjust aperture or shutter speed during video. What it does - and this pretty perfect - adjust exposure automatically, but that's it.

    What I really like about the EM1 video is the presence of the IBIS, which makes shake free video a breeze! So for the video I am doing so far, the EM1 is just perfect and the EM5II should just be better again.

    But if one is looking for a more pro or semi-pro video machine, there are definitely better solutions out there for sure - maybe the highly praised GH4 or G7 or some of the Sony A7-series bodies, but I have no experience with those.
    thx for that info, I too cannot find a way to manually adjust aperture etc real time in video on my E-M1.

    Wonder how the E-M1 or E-M5ii IBIS compares to the likes of the Sony A7ii and A7rii for video type application.

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    thx for that info, I too cannot find a way to manually adjust aperture etc real time in video on my E-M1.

    Wonder how the E-M1 or E-M5ii IBIS compares to the likes of the Sony A7ii and A7rii for video type application.
    I would assume that IBIS from the A7II and A7RII are pretty much as good and effective as the Olympus incarnations.

    Having said that, if I would buy into a mirrorless system today I would choose probably the Sony A7RII or at least A7II. And as soon as they release a decent 70/80/100-400 zoom, which I need for wildlife, I will jump ships anyway. A FF sensor will always outperform any m43 sensor WRT IQ and high ISO.

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    agree with you ptomsu. The a7ii and now the A7rii are both very new cameras. I would have missed alot of photo opportinuities if I had to wait for these cameras to be released before buying into the FE mount mirror less system.

    From what I gather from other posts, the A7rii will support fast AF for the likes of A mount lenses without the need for an adapter (LA-E4) to aid focusing. What this means is that Canon EF lenses in the past that would AF at a slowly will now AF faster which may be usable for normal shooting. With that in mind, you could always get an A7rii now and mate it with the new Canon 100-400 USM ii for wildlife, and a nice 85mm f1.2L for portraits.

    I know the IBIS in both the A7ii and A7rii is meant to perform close to the performance of the E-M1, but was wondering if anyone had first hand experience with both.

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    The E-M1 (and other Olympus m4/3) cameras have an option in the menus as to what shooting mode to use for videos. See Movie Record Mode in the Movie menu (p71 in the manual), it's next to the microphone settings, wind noise reduction etc. Just set it to M to use full manual for movies.

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by convexferret View Post
    The E-M1 (and other Olympus m4/3) cameras have an option in the menus as to what shooting mode to use for videos. See Movie Record Mode in the Movie menu (p71 in the manual), it's next to the microphone settings, wind noise reduction etc. Just set it to M to use full manual for movies.
    If you do that you only can set aperture and shutter speed before the recording starts, but as soon as you are recording you cannot change either of those parameters - at least I could not find a way to do so.

    On top of that also the description of all these video features is pretty bad in the manual iMHO - too much room for tricky filters for video, but not what you would really need - change major settings during recording.

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    If you do that you only can set aperture and shutter speed before the recording starts, but as soon as you are recording you cannot change either of those parameters - at least I could not find a way to do so.

    On top of that also the description of all these video features is pretty bad in the manual iMHO - too much room for tricky filters for video, but not what you would really need - change major settings during recording.
    If I were doing serious movie work with my E-M1, I'd buy into the manual Voigtländer lenses for full manual iris and focus control. Focus by servo and aperture control by body controlled servo are both noisy and jumpy by comparison. Video simply has different requirements from doing stills.

    G

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Godfrey,
    actually a very good point I did not consider before.
    Having said that, if I want to do more advanced video then I might go A7RII.
    Peter

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    actually a very good point I did not consider before.
    Having said that, if I want to do more advanced video then I might go A7RII.
    I tried a bit of video with the A7. Frankly, I think its rolling shutter issues are much greater than the E-M1. The one thing Sony did do right was that you can connect a monitor with the HDMI port and monitor video while recording, rather than disabling all other operations when the HDMI port is connected and outputting.

    I dunno. Shooting 35mm format movies takes a lot more work than shooting smaller formats due to the focusing skills required. FourThirds format is a bit larger than the 16mm cine that I used to do, it's a nice format for movie work with a good balance of speed and DoF control.

    G

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    If I were doing serious movie work with my E-M1, I'd buy into the manual Voigtländer lenses for full manual iris and focus control. Focus by servo and aperture control by body controlled servo are both noisy and jumpy by comparison. Video simply has different requirements from doing stills.

    G
    true that is one way to get around it, but it would still be nice to be able to use Olympus m43 lenses for creative video, without having to go out and get a gh4 or gh7.

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I tried a bit of video with the A7. Frankly, I think its rolling shutter issues are much greater than the E-M1. The one thing Sony did do right was that you can connect a monitor with the HDMI port and monitor video while recording, rather than disabling all other operations when the HDMI port is connected and outputting.

    I dunno. Shooting 35mm format movies takes a lot more work than shooting smaller formats due to the focusing skills required. FourThirds format is a bit larger than the 16mm cine that I used to do, it's a nice format for movie work with a good balance of speed and DoF control.

    G
    Sure using a full frame sensor may be harder to manual focus real time during video capture, but one can just learn to deal with it, otherwise stop down 2 stops and the video focusing should be nearly identical to m43.

    What I am interested in is how the new a7ii and possibly the a7rii IBIS performs in comparison to Olympus's IBIS for video. Olympus IBIS is already very good

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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    I recalled reading about m43 and weddings in this article on a Portrait/Wedding photographer in the UK.
    Have a look at her link here - Why I Use Micro Four Thirds Cameras | Featured in Photo Professional Magazine » Lindsay Dobson Photography and check out her work.
    I think quite a successful user of m43 IMO.

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    Sure using a full frame sensor may be harder to manual focus real time during video capture, but one can just learn to deal with it, otherwise stop down 2 stops and the video focusing should be nearly identical to m43.

    What I am interested in is how the new a7ii and possibly the a7rii IBIS performs in comparison to Olympus's IBIS for video. Olympus IBIS is already very good
    It's not quite that simple due to the exposure time requirements for movie work. Really, the best solution is to use a three way exposure control — fixed exposure time at 2x frame rate, fixed lens opening for DoF control, and variable ND filter for light control. Manual focus, stepless iris, etc., all contribute.

    The Olympus 5-axis IS is outstanding and works for all lenses since it's wholly contained in the body. The smaller sensor assembly has less mass to control as well. My understanding is that the Sony 5-axis IS relies partially upon the in-lens IS mechanism, so you're limited to Sony IS lenses.

    Different systems, different pluses and minuses. Needless to say, either will work fine for a wedding... :-)

    G

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    It's not quite that simple due to the exposure time requirements for movie work. Really, the best solution is to use a three way exposure control — fixed exposure time at 2x frame rate, fixed lens opening for DoF control, and variable ND filter for light control. Manual focus, stepless iris, etc., all contribute.

    The Olympus 5-axis IS is outstanding and works for all lenses since it's wholly contained in the body. The smaller sensor assembly has less mass to control as well. My understanding is that the Sony 5-axis IS relies partially upon the in-lens IS mechanism, so you're limited to Sony IS lenses.

    Different systems, different pluses and minuses. Needless to say, either will work fine for a wedding... :-)

    G
    agree, but there is one more method for exposure control, and that is ISO. With Sony ILC cameras, one can maintain exposure with constant 2x frame rate (fixed shutter speed) and yet be able to vary the aperture without using a variable ND filter, but instead by varying the ISO. Being able to adjust ISO real time during recording just adds to the flexibility of shooting digital.

    Maybe someone will make a hack firmware for the Olympus OMD to allow for similar manual controls.

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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    ... insteX by varying the ISO. ...
    The Sony's allow you to vary ISO while capturing? That's news to me! I sure never saw that in the*(mostly useless) instruction manuals.

    That said, I suspect that you'd see changes if you vary ISO during capture too much. Dynamic range narrows as ISO goes up... This is just as true for Sony as any other digital camera. And noise goes up. It's probably a pretty small difference at the low end of the ISO scale, but the upper end does actually get noisy at some point.

    It's an interesting concept, however. That said, I didn't see anywhere near the difference in imaging quality between the A7 and the E-M1 that I expected. My gut feeling, looking at my photos, is that the E-M1 held its own on par with the A7 to ISO 6400.

    G
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    Re: Anyone Doing Weddings with 4/3 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    The Sony's allow you to vary ISO while capturing? That's news to me! I sure never saw that in the*(mostly useless) instruction manuals.

    That said, I suspect that you'd see changes if you vary ISO during capture too much. Dynamic range narrows as ISO goes up... This is just as true for Sony as any other digital camera. And noise goes up. It's probably a pretty small difference at the low end of the ISO scale, but the upper end does actually get noisy at some point.

    It's an interesting concept, however. That said, I didn't see anywhere near the difference in imaging quality between the A7 and the E-M1 that I expected. My gut feeling, looking at my photos, is that the E-M1 held its own on par with the A7 to ISO 6400.

    G
    Yup, just did a test with my rather old Sony Nex 5r (APS-C). When set to manual, native E mount lenses aperture, shutter speed and ISO can be adjusted real time during recording. Setting the camera to shutter priority with a legacy cine lens will allow one to set the shutter speed eg 1/50 or 1/60 and allows the ISO to be set to Auto. The only adjustments then are the aperture and exposure compensation, which automatically adjusts the ISO to maintain the same exposure when varying the aperture.

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