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Thread: The Digital Pen F

  1. #51
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    All the discussions about better high ISO, more MP, IBIS yes or no, AF speed and flexibility, etc.....

    ... the longer I think about, the more I get the feeling that we reached meanwhile a level in all disciplines that what really counts is that you like a camera, how it looks, feels and handles for you and if you are thrilled to take it and make great photos

    I for myself will have a final look at the PEN F at it's official introduction celebration here in Austria next Sunday and then decide if I like it and would want to take it with me to shoot when mounting my 1.8/17 or 1.8/75 on it and shoot. That is all what really counts and not if high ISO, DR, MP count, AF and so on is whatever margin better, at least for me.

    I might even take the silver one - just because I think it looks more cool

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    I'll be honest and say I have a hard time justifying the Pen-F over the Sony for street night life. The Sony is smaller, the Pen-F sensor doesn't seem to have improved ISO/etc much at all, while the Sony sensor I do expect it will do so (most likely the Fuji Xpro 2's base sensor).

    And given my experience with the A6000 AF, I am expecting the A6300 to be a miracle here.
    Sure, A6300 lacks IBIS but a lot of the lenses have IBIS. Like the SEL35/SEL55 primes.

    - Ricardo
    Ricardo,
    your argument is balanced and rational. However, it doesn't take into account that the Pen-F is way better looking than the A6x00. NEX derived cameras have always bugged me personally with their "plate and cylinder" design ethic. And don't get me started about the last Lytro camera. If the high-ISO performance of the Pen-F is not at the level of the Sony A6x00 series, it's nothing some fast glass cannot cure and Olympus has a bevy of affordable f/1.8 primes. And let's not forget Pen-F's IBIS. I use the IBIS on my A7 II far more than the high-ISO performance (I never go above ISO 3200).

    Granted, that situation works for me and may not work for you (or anybody else, YMMV).
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO
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  3. #53
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Well, I today had the chance to try the new PenF at a local Olympus promotion event in Vienna - and I was impressed. Key differences (advantages) to the EM1:

    1) camera is extremely nice to hold even without a grip - at least for my hands
    2) EVF has same resolution as in EM1, but is a totally different OLED display (versus LCD or whatever in EM1), which results in complete loss of the green cast of the EM1 EVF, giving perfect colors
    3) color simulation mode dial is superb - I never thought I would fall in love with that one as I am primarily a RAW shooter, but this is just stunning and fun to use, especially the MONO modes
    4) camera is VERY fast and SILENT !!!!
    5) sensor has the 20MP, which is great, BUT in combination with improved high ISO and DR
    6) the PenF is just a gorgeous camera, sexy if you allow me that comparison - well we had the sexy camera discussion already in other threads and I do not intend to start such a discussion again, but just that you know how I felt it!
    7) of course nice to hold with some of the primes (tried it with the 1.8/17 - a lens I love) but also feels well in my hands with the new Pro 4/300 mounted, I was blown away (BTW this lens is another BEAST)

    Very hard to resist to buy one
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hmmm, but it seems to me that (with the exception of video) this is perfectly capable of being serious gear (just don't fiddle with the knob on the front if you don't want to!)

    To me it looks like fun - and that shooting ORF+jpg fine will give you the best of both worlds. I can't see anything to dislike and am certainly dooomed!
    His comments reads to me about the innovation side of things. You are right that this camera can do serious stuff but that wasn't what the comment pointed out- but about innovation. i.e. what exactly is this camera doing new, pushing the envelope forward other than JPEGS (in many ways this has been had for years), and looking pretty?

    I understand that. I really wished it had the hand held super resolution.. that would have been very interesting. I do like the workflow with the JPEG engine though. This is so Pentax Q, like it. The real big change here is to be able to tweak the JPEG engine further in color and B&W.

    - Ricardo
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    All the discussions about better high ISO, more MP, IBIS yes or no, AF speed and flexibility, etc.....

    ... the longer I think about, the more I get the feeling that we reached meanwhile a level in all disciplines that what really counts is that you like a camera, how it looks, feels and handles for you and if you are thrilled to take it and make great photos
    This really depends on what you are going photographically. I would agree with you for the most part if I was shooting in good daylight. But I shoot a lot at night. One stop of more ISO is very nice :-)

    I for myself will have a final look at the PEN F at it's official introduction celebration here in Austria next Sunday and then decide if I like it and would want to take it with me to shoot when mounting my 1.8/17 or 1.8/75 on it and shoot. That is all what really counts and not if high ISO, DR, MP count, AF and so on is whatever margin better, at least for me.

    I might even take the silver one - just because I think it looks more cool

    I think I finally matured
    - Ricardo

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Ricardo,
    your argument is balanced and rational. However, it doesn't take into account that the Pen-F is way better looking than the A6x00. NEX derived cameras have always bugged me personally with their "plate and cylinder" design ethic. And don't get me started about the last Lytro camera. If the high-ISO performance of the Pen-F is not at the level of the Sony A6x00 series, it's nothing some fast glass cannot cure and Olympus has a bevy of affordable f/1.8 primes. And let's not forget Pen-F's IBIS. I use the IBIS on my A7 II far more than the high-ISO performance (I never go above ISO 3200).

    Granted, that situation works for me and may not work for you (or anybody else, YMMV).
    Well certainly if you are going for looks the Pen looks better, though I wouldn't call the A6000/A6300 ugly looking. the A6000/A6300 has one thing that the Pen doesn't - and that is an awesome grip-feel when you pick it up. I can tell that already and is the #1 thing that impressed me right away when I picked up the A6000.

    Fast glass you can say that about both, and fast glass won't cure color sensitivity differences that play a role in how rich your shot can look, plus the tonality of 14 bits from the Sony is very nice. IBIS is a bit overrated- if you need to freeze street subjects, IBIS is not going to help here, and the Sony has prime lenses with OIS, so it's an advantage, but I wouldn't call it a deal breaker.

    But you are right- it all depends on what we all need/want individually. Totally agree with you there. The big problem the A6000/A6300 really have is lack of native e-mount lenses that are good. The SEL 35/50 aren't bad, but even the Zeiss standard zoom has many issues (I saw a co-worker go literally through no less than 7 copies of the lens in search of a good one that could do reasonable corner to corner sharpness and never found one- that's a rather big issue though at least now you can buy the G Master standard zoom and use it).

    - Ricardo
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Well certainly if you are going for looks the Pen looks better, though I wouldn't call the A6000/A6300 ugly looking. the A6000/A6300 has one thing that the Pen doesn't - and that is an awesome grip-feel when you pick it up. I can tell that already and is the #1 thing that impressed me right away when I picked up the A6000.

    Fast glass you can say that about both, and fast glass won't cure color sensitivity differences that play a role in how rich your shot can look, plus the tonality of 14 bits from the Sony is very nice. IBIS is a bit overrated- if you need to freeze street subjects, IBIS is not going to help here, and the Sony has prime lenses with OIS, so it's an advantage, but I wouldn't call it a deal breaker.

    But you are right- it all depends on what we all need/want individually. Totally agree with you there. The big problem the A6000/A6300 really have is lack of native e-mount lenses that are good. The SEL 35/50 aren't bad, but even the Zeiss standard zoom has many issues (I saw a co-worker go literally through no less than 7 copies of the lens in search of a good one that could do reasonable corner to corner sharpness and never found one- that's a rather big issue though at least now you can buy the G Master standard zoom and use it).

    - Ricardo
    I shoot an A7 II professionally, so I am very accustomed to the Sony grip (which is excellent). I was looking for something like the Pen-F for everyday carry as my Sony kit is getting bigger every day. I have used OMD's before, but I wanted a Pen with a viewfinder. Olympus has delivered this with enough evolutionary improvements to make this really work for me. Peter's report is very heartening and I am excited to try it out for myself.

    I am not getting any G Master lenses anytime soon as they are way out of my budget. I actually shoot my A7 II with adapted Canon FD primes most of the time.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Well, I today had the chance to try the new PenF at a local Olympus promotion event in Vienna - and I was impressed. Key differences (advantages) to the EM1:

    1) camera is extremely nice to hold even without a grip - at least for my hands
    2) EVF has same resolution as in EM1, but is a totally different OLED display (versus LCD or whatever in EM1), which results in complete loss of the green cast of the EM1 EVF, giving perfect colors
    3) color simulation mode dial is superb - I never thought I would fall in love with that one as I am primarily a RAW shooter, but this is just stunning and fun to use, especially the MONO modes
    4) camera is VERY fast and SILENT !!!!
    5) sensor has the 20MP, which is great, BUT in combination with improved high ISO and DR
    6) the PenF is just a gorgeous camera, sexy if you allow me that comparison - well we had the sexy camera discussion already in other threads and I do not intend to start such a discussion again, but just that you know how I felt it!
    7) of course nice to hold with some of the primes (tried it with the 1.8/17 - a lens I love) but also feels well in my hands with the new Pro 4/300 mounted, I was blown away (BTW this lens is another BEAST)

    Very hard to resist to buy one

    Some valid points here, but since the last major firmware update 4.0 for the E-M1, it has once again "renewed" the camera with alot of new exciting features, one of which is the ability to enable the electronic shutter. So the E-M1 can be completely silent too when capturing exposures. From what I gather the E-M1 also has an amo LED EVF, so I guess the new PenF just has a better one?

    Absolutely agree the PenF is a gorgeous camera and I can see myself getting addicted to using that color simulation mode dial on a daily basis!

    Would like to see how larger primes like the Nocticron would balance on the PenF, grip etc.
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Well certainly if you are going for looks the Pen looks better, though I wouldn't call the A6000/A6300 ugly looking. the A6000/A6300 has one thing that the Pen doesn't - and that is an awesome grip-feel when you pick it up. I can tell that already and is the #1 thing that impressed me right away when I picked up the A6000.

    Fast glass you can say that about both, and fast glass won't cure color sensitivity differences that play a role in how rich your shot can look, plus the tonality of 14 bits from the Sony is very nice. IBIS is a bit overrated- if you need to freeze street subjects, IBIS is not going to help here, and the Sony has prime lenses with OIS, so it's an advantage, but I wouldn't call it a deal breaker.

    But you are right- it all depends on what we all need/want individually. Totally agree with you there. The big problem the A6000/A6300 really have is lack of native e-mount lenses that are good. The SEL 35/50 aren't bad, but even the Zeiss standard zoom has many issues (I saw a co-worker go literally through no less than 7 copies of the lens in search of a good one that could do reasonable corner to corner sharpness and never found one- that's a rather big issue though at least now you can buy the G Master standard zoom and use it).

    - Ricardo
    hmm, this is a hard choice. I do like both the PenF and the new a6300, especially the new EVFs in both. Correct me if I am wrong but does the a6300 have a higher resolution than the PenF? If I was to get a a6300, I would pair it up with the Metabones Speedbooster ultra EF-Emount adapter to relive the full frame experience without having the fake mirror box design found in the A7 series.

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    ..to relive the full frame experience without having the fake mirror box design found in the A7 series.
    RX1R mk II.

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    RX1R mk II.
    Good call Vivek, but, I also do like to have an interchangeable lens option for those time I want a different focal length other than 35mm.

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by mazor View Post
    hmm, this is a hard choice. I do like both the PenF and the new a6300, especially the new EVFs in both. Correct me if I am wrong but does the a6300 have a higher resolution than the PenF? If I was to get a a6300, I would pair it up with the Metabones Speedbooster ultra EF-Emount adapter to relive the full frame experience without having the fake mirror box design found in the A7 series.
    Both are the same resolution (or about so) but the A6300 offers the ability to refresh at 120Hz.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    CameraStoreTV review.

    Well, ouch.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqmMrp-pVp4

    I am asking if the AF is also problematic with other primes and not just the new telephoto. My take from this- expect operational performance in line with the OMD EMK5 II overall.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    CameraStoreTV review.

    Well, ouch.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqmMrp-pVp4

    I am asking if the AF is also problematic with other primes and not just the new telephoto. My take from this- expect operational performance in line with the OMD EMK5 II overall.

    - Ricardo
    Everything Chris points out is something that can be dealt with in a firmware update or two. I agree, it should not have been there in the first place, but it is what it is. This is a photo camera like the Nikon Df.

    Seriously, I have never really shot video with a any of the cameras I have owned. I have a video camera for that. Hell, I've shot more video with my iPhone. No camera is a be-all, end-all device. Some are better at some things than others.
    Last edited by etrigan63; 11th February 2016 at 19:46. Reason: Thought of more stuff to say...
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Everything Chris points out is something that can be dealt with in a firmware update or two. I agree, it should not have been there in the first place, but it is what it is. This is a photo camera like the Nikon Df.

    Seriously, I have never really shot video with a any of the cameras I have owned. I have a video camera for that. Hell, I've shot more video with my iPhone. No camera is a be-all, end-all device. Some are better at some things than others.
    Well, I don't buy cameras based on firmware upgrades. I would have never counted on Olympus on doing so, but looks like Fuji started to get them into the update train which is great- but still.

    I don't care about video either. But I do care about laggy EVF, somewhat OK overall speed/response of operation, the EVF that was turning LCD->EVF->LCD.

    Continuous AF seems odd also, though thankfully I do not care too much about it. A little bit.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Well, I don't buy cameras based on firmware upgrades.

    - Ricardo
    Neither do I, however since the trend is leaning toward introducing new features with firmware updates (THANK YOU FUJI!), it is possible that Olympus upper management (at least in the camera division) may have to pressured to get the product launched before it was fully baked. Lord knows the software industry has operated like this for decades.

    Again, my goal is to use this as a walkabout/street/travel camera that I can kit out with three small primes and not cost a mint. I looked at the A6000/A6300 and while very whizzy and nice (I am getting my daughter an A6000), it is very difficult to properly kit it out with a set of fast 35-50-85 (equivalent) primes. Sony just doesn't make those lenses.
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Neither do I, however since the trend is leaning toward introducing new features with firmware updates (THANK YOU FUJI!), it is possible that Olympus upper management (at least in the camera division) may have to pressured to get the product launched before it was fully baked. Lord knows the software industry has operated like this for decades.

    Again, my goal is to use this as a walkabout/street/travel camera that I can kit out with three small primes and not cost a mint. I looked at the A6000/A6300 and while very whizzy and nice (I am getting my daughter an A6000), it is very difficult to properly kit it out with a set of fast 35-50-85 (equivalent) primes. Sony just doesn't make those lenses.
    The FF f2, 28mm (42mm equiv.) and f1.8, 55mm (83mm equiv.) make for an excellent and lightweight travel set up with the a6000 (a6300). A budget yet quite capable combo is one of the Sony`s with the three inexpensive Sigma's 19, 30, 60mm. Difficult to beat a used a6000 with the three Sigma primes in terms of IQ/$.

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    The FF f2, 28mm (42mm equiv.) and f1.8, 55mm (83mm equiv.) make for an excellent and lightweight travel set up with the a6000 (a6300). A budget yet quite capable combo is one of the Sony`s with the three inexpensive Sigma's 19, 30, 60mm. Difficult to beat a used a6000 with the three Sigma primes in terms of IQ/$.
    Never been very keen on the Sigma E-mount lenses as they appear to be "me too" lenses. Again, there are no focal lengths that map properly. With Oly, I can kit out a 17-25-45 combo or if i really want spread things out a bit 12-25-75 or 12-17-25 if I want to keep it wide.
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Well, I don't buy cameras based on firmware upgrades. I would have never counted on Olympus on doing so, but looks like Fuji started to get them into the update train which is great- but still.

    I don't care about video either. But I do care about laggy EVF, somewhat OK overall speed/response of operation, the EVF that was turning LCD->EVF->LCD.

    Continuous AF seems odd also, though thankfully I do not care too much about it. A little bit.

    - Ricardo
    I only can say that when I used the PenF at the promotional event, I could not notice a laggy EVF. And conditions were rather bad as this was in a pretty dark environment, where ragtime normally is high.

    I care about AF-C, but I am positive that Olympus will update the FW - mind you this is a new sensor and they just have to optimize the AF algorithms. But I quite agree they should have done this before product launch.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Neither do I, however since the trend is leaning toward introducing new features with firmware updates (THANK YOU FUJI!), it is possible that Olympus upper management (at least in the camera division) may have to pressured to get the product launched before it was fully baked. Lord knows the software industry has operated like this for decades.

    Again, my goal is to use this as a walkabout/street/travel camera that I can kit out with three small primes and not cost a mint. I looked at the A6000/A6300 and while very whizzy and nice (I am getting my daughter an A6000), it is very difficult to properly kit it out with a set of fast 35-50-85 (equivalent) primes. Sony just doesn't make those lenses.
    Unfortunately we see this SW upgrade trend now even in camera industry :-(

    I do agree, if Sony had the lenses you mention for the A6300, this would be my camera of choice. But unfortunately the don't.

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Never been very keen on the Sigma E-mount lenses as they appear to be "me too" lenses. Again, there are no focal lengths that map properly. With Oly, I can kit out a 17-25-45 combo or if i really want spread things out a bit 12-25-75 or 12-17-25 if I want to keep it wide.
    I also have never been keen on Sigma E-mount glass. And all together the Olympus m43 primes are lot smaller than comparable APSC lenses, with exceptions optical quality for very good price - another reason I am staying with m43.

    If I really want/need more resolution and am willing to carry the weight, my D810 with several Nikkor lenses (including 24-120 and 2.8/70-200) does the job just exceptionally.

    Means when I want light and small m43 is the chice, otherwise FF Nikon
    Last edited by ptomsu; 12th February 2016 at 03:25.

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I only can say that when I used the PenF at the promotional event, I could not notice a laggy EVF. And conditions were rather bad as this was in a pretty dark environment, where ragtime normally is high.

    I care about AF-C, but I am positive that Olympus will update the FW - mind you this is a new sensor and they just have to optimize the AF algorithms. But I quite agree they should have done this before product launch.
    I too am wondering what possessed Chris and Jordan to use a brand new lens (aimed squarely at the EM-1) on the Pen-F. It is likely that the lens firmware is expecting PDAF signals from the body to narrow the field down and CDAF to finish the job. The Pen F being CDAF only, has to hunt especially with a lens that it is not optimized for.

    Admittedly, the Leica SL is CDAF only as well, but the focusing mechanism in the SL lenses is aware of this and is engineered to this. This is where purity of design comes into play. Leica's mirrorless cameras are very consistent in design. Oly is not quite as disciplined with PDAF models (4/3), CDAF models (m4/3) and hybrid PDAF/CDAF models (m4/3). The fact that the Sony A7rII plays so well with adapted Canon EF lenses is a tribute to the engineering efforts by Sony and their recognizing this as a market opportunity.
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    Senior Member Annna T's Avatar
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    I too am wondering what possessed Chris and Jordan to use a brand new lens (aimed squarely at the EM-1) on the Pen-F. It is likely that the lens firmware is expecting PDAF signals from the body to narrow the field down and CDAF to finish the job. The Pen F being CDAF only, has to hunt especially with a lens that it is not optimized for.

    Admittedly, the Leica SL is CDAF only as well, but the focusing mechanism in the SL lenses is aware of this and is engineered to this. This is where purity of design comes into play. Leica's mirrorless cameras are very consistent in design. Oly is not quite as disciplined with PDAF models (4/3), CDAF models (m4/3) and hybrid PDAF/CDAF models (m4/3). The fact that the Sony A7rII plays so well with adapted Canon EF lenses is a tribute to the engineering efforts by Sony and their recognizing this as a market opportunity.
    The E-M5s aren't PDAF, but they are able to use the 45-150mm plus 1.4 extender without any problem. Focusing is usually very fast and rarely hunt if you know where to point to focus (I have that old habit of focus and reframe). I'm mainly using SAF however.

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    The E-M5s aren't PDAF, but they are able to use the 45-150mm plus 1.4 extender without any problem. Focusing is usually very fast and rarely hunt if you know where to point to focus (I have that old habit of focus and reframe). I'm mainly using SAF however.
    Anna,
    I am aware the the EM-5's are CDAF only. What I was going on about was the decision by Chris & Jordan (The Camera Store) to field test the Pen F with the new 300mm Pro lens which is aimed squarely at EM-1 users. It is highly likely that neither lens nor camera had their firmware optimized for each other. Probably because Olympus management wouldn't think anyone would be crazy enough to pair those two. Leave it to the Crazy Canucks to buck convention.
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    There seems to be a bit of a misunderstanding going on. The latest comment from TCS shows their camera was not final, but they didn't know that.

    Chris and I are always as transparent and accurate as possible when it comes to testing products for TCSTV. If we are ever looking at a pre-production camera, we will mention that during the episode. Recent examples of this include the Sony A6300 and Fuji X-Pro 2 episodes. For this reason, when Olympus approached us with the new Pen-F unit, we specifically requested that it was a production unit that the user at home would have access to. Olympus assured us that they had a production, reviewable copy of the Pen-F, so we told them to ship us the camera which is featured in this episode. After the episode was posted, Olympus contacted us to state that the camera we tested was indeed not final firmware. This apparently led to our issues with the continuous AF performance. This was their mistake, as we requested and were assured a production-level camera with final firmware. The good news is that Olympus says some of the issues we found are resolved in their final firmware. We are excited to retest this camera when it is available in a final production version. If the issues are addressed, it will be a much more capable camera than one we tested (and enjoyed) here. Thank you for continuing to support TCSTV with your views, comments and shares. We'll do our best to bring you the consistent, reliable tests you've come to expect from Chris and I. Jordan @ TCSTV
    We'll have to wait for the reports on full production cameras to really judge what this can do. That said, I wouldn't expect an Olympus mFT camera to be really good at CAF (and yes, I do have an EM1) or as good at video as a Panasonic camera.
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Well that answers that.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Anna,
    I am aware the the EM-5's are CDAF only. What I was going on about was the decision by Chris & Jordan (The Camera Store) to field test the Pen F with the new 300mm Pro lens which is aimed squarely at EM-1 users. It is highly likely that neither lens nor camera had their firmware optimized for each other. Probably because Olympus management wouldn't think anyone would be crazy enough to pair those two. Leave it to the Crazy Canucks to buck convention.
    Unfortunately I must let you know that also the PenF presentation in Vienna was together with the 4/300. And I really liked this combo form handling - without any grip. And AF was snappy and great, but I did not use AFC.
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Unfortunately I must let you know that also the PenF presentation in Vienna was together with the 4/300. And I really liked this combo form handling - without any grip. And AF was snappy and great, but I did not use AFC.
    Which basically echoes the history of m4/3 which was originally aimed at soccer moms looking to upgrade from P&S cameras but did not want bulky DSLRs and ended up as backup/street/walkabout cameras for some and primary cameras for others. Predicting the whims of the market is an art, not a science.
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Which basically echoes the history of m4/3 which was originally aimed at soccer moms looking to upgrade from P&S cameras but did not want bulky DSLRs and ended up as backup/street/walkabout cameras for some and primary cameras for others. Predicting the whims of the market is an art, not a science.
    Well, I do not care to be in the same camp as soccer moms, as long as the camera suits my needs

    I only can reiterate that I really liked shooting this limited time with the PenF and even with the 4/300 mounted it was great to handle although I am pretty sure this combo was never the design concept for the PenF.

    I have not personally tried it but I would predict with the PenF grip mounted it would even perfectly harmonize with the 2.8/40-150, which is bulkier as the 4/300. Which tells another story about how great and handsome the 4/300 is BTW.

    I am still kind of hooked
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    So yes, CameraStore got pre-release firmware.

    Will be very interesting to see what they say once they get a production camera.

    - Ricardo

    PS: Everyone saying "Software is now getting updated/that's the trend" and then considering buying the camera based on that, I say you are kinda nuts :-) $1,200 USD is too much to pay in my book for a may-be.
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    What I want to know is when Olympus are going to come out with the digital Olympus XA.

    It must be a capsule camera with a small add on flash.

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    What I want to know is when Olympus are going to come out with the digital Olympus XA.

    It must be a capsule camera with a small add on flash.

    LouisB
    I do still have one ! But it has got a light leak.. So I don't use it anymore. Don't use film either, although I have kept my Contax G2 and five lenses. Scanning is way to long compared to digital bodies.

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    I do still have one ! But it has got a light leak.. So I don't use it anymore. Don't use film either, although I have kept my Contax G2 and five lenses. Scanning is way to long compared to digital bodies.
    Ii also have a G2 with set of lenses. The 35, 45, and 90 work well on the E-M5 II if you don't mind dealing with a screw drive MF adapter (or you can also get an M mount conversion with focusing helicoid). Too bad TechArt doesn't have an m43 version of their AF adapter.
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    I do still have one ! But it has got a light leak.. So I don't use it anymore. Don't use film either, although I have kept my Contax G2 and five lenses. Scanning is way to long compared to digital bodies.
    I had one for many years and travelled the world with it. It easily allowed A3 size reprints. A few months ago I bought one for my soon-to-be daughter-in-law as a surprise present. She loves it and is producing some very nice photographs. I figured she should use film at least once in her life. I also just unearthed my Olympus mju-1 (I believe it was called the Stylus in the US) and I will give it to her to play with as well.

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    PS: Everyone saying "Software is now getting updated/that's the trend" and then considering buying the camera based on that, I say you are kinda nuts :-) $1,200 USD is too much to pay in my book for a may-be.
    Isn't every camera purchase a "maybe"? Maybe this will fit my style? Maybe the lenses are as good as they say? Maybe the high ISO noise is tolerable? Maybe I can afford to expand this system? Maybe I should invest in 3rd party lenses? Etc, etc, etc...?
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Isn't every camera purchase a "maybe"? Maybe this will fit my style? Maybe the lenses are as good as they say? Maybe the high ISO noise is tolerable? Maybe I can afford to expand this system? Maybe I should invest in 3rd party lenses? Etc, etc, etc...?
    You are totally right and given all the money I sunk so far in my life in different camera(systems) the price of the PenF is just negligible - at least for me.

    I am pretty sure that Olympus will have FW updates asap improving lot of areas of the PenF, of course also AFC. But actually I do not care too much about AFC, as I use AFC mainly for wildlife and action, which is not the main area I would use the PenF for. I think there are so many great things the PenF does right, that one should not draw it to death just because of one not so perfect area.
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    You are totally right and given all the money I sunk so far in my life in different camera(systems) the price of the PenF is just negligible - at least for me.

    I am pretty sure that Olympus will have FW updates asap improving lot of areas of the PenF, of course also AFC. But actually I do not care too much about AFC, as I use AFC mainly for wildlife and action, which is not the main area I would use the PenF for. I think there are so many great things the PenF does right, that one should not draw it to death just because of one not so perfect area.
    Personnally, I like the form factor very much. The totally retro look, less so. If I hadn't got the E-M5II, I'd be very interested in a Pen with an integrated VF. While I liked the Pens, the optional VF was a nuisance to store. With the Pen F I could put it in a little bag which I like very much and which is too straight for the E-M5II. But one thing would draw me back : from what I have read the VF is smaller than that of the E-M5II. This is a serious disadvantage IMO. I will wait for the serious reviews made with a production camera and see whether the 20MB are producing so much better results than the E-M5. For the moment I have rather decided against it. It is what I have wanted a long time ago, but it is coming too late. Also : I don't expect much improvement from the increased pixels of the sensor; going from 16 up to 20 will make less difference than the upgrade from 12 to 16. Mainly because then the 12MB sensor had a lot of noise.

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    Personnally, I like the form factor very much. The totally retro look, less so. If I hadn't got the E-M5II, I'd be very interested in a Pen with an integrated VF. While I liked the Pens, the optional VF was a nuisance to store. With the Pen F I could put it in a little bag which I like very much and which is too straight for the E-M5II. But one thing would draw me back : from what I have read the VF is smaller than that of the E-M5II. This is a serious disadvantage IMO. I will wait for the serious reviews made with a production camera and see whether the 20MB are producing so much better results than the E-M5. For the moment I have rather decided against it. It is what I have wanted a long time ago, but it is coming too late. Also : I don't expect much improvement from the increased pixels of the sensor; going from 16 up to 20 will make less difference than the upgrade from 12 to 16. Mainly because then the 12MB sensor had a lot of noise.
    I am quite in the same boat as you, I owned the EP2 and the EP3 and while I liked these cameras a lot, I never could get friend with the external EVF, so I sold them. And then as soon as the original EM5 became available I bought it and really loved this camera, so much that I then bought the EM1 some 3 years ago and this became my workhorse camera.

    I am actually kind of waiting for the EM1mark2 which should be released later this year as I really love the ergonomics of the EM1 and hope they will be similar or better from the new model. But the PenF is also the camera I was waiting for long time, a Pen with integrated EVF. Now as it arrived it even brings a new 20MP sensor, which according to Olympus delivers better high ISO and DR than the old 16MP sensors, but same time with higher resolution. Sure it is a good idea to wait for more reviews, but I will do my own tests as soon as I can get a camera for more time to shoot some RAWs and see how they hold up to my expectations im my main RAW converters - LR6 and C1Pro. But I am confident this will be ok.

    Now WRT EVF of the PenF, I know the size of the EM1 EVF, which has the same magnification as in the EM5II and for me the slightly smaller PenF EVF was no problem at all. Especially as the whole camera is smaller and this new EVF employs now finally an OLED display, which is much better than the old LCD display, which is used in the EM1 and EM5II. Better DR, better colors (much more natural) etc.

    So I would suggest you go to your dealer of trust and try a PenF personally once available. But I warn you, this test can result in GAS
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Decided to post this question here as it related to my pending Pen-F purchase. I have decided that my first lens will be in the 35mm effective focal length range and I kind of have two choices:

    The Olympus 17mm f/1.8 (34mm eFOV)

    and

    The PanaLeica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 (30mm eFOV)

    I've used the 17mm before and it is very nice but I have heard many good things about the PanaLeica. 4mm wider isn't going to kill me.
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Decided to post this question here as it related to my pending Pen-F purchase. I have decided that my first lens will be in the 35mm effective focal length range and I kind of have two choices:

    The Olympus 17mm f/1.8 (34mm eFOV)

    and

    The PanaLeica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 (30mm eFOV)

    I've used the 17mm before and it is very nice but I have heard many good things about the PanaLeica. 4mm wider isn't going to kill me.
    I shoot the 17 and I really love this lens. Especially the size and weight are nice, I have the feeling that the 15 is a bit larger and heavier. Having said this, the 15 has excellent reviews and I have no doubt it offers the typical Leica signature.

    What put me off from buying the Pana/Leica 15 is that the aperture ring, which per se is a great thing and I really would love to use does not operate on Olympus cameras, only on Panasonic. Which drives me nuts considering this is obviously mainly a FW thing and could be easily implemented by Olympus (or Panasonic) so one could use Pana/Leica glass on Olympus m43 bodies without any restrictions.

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    The PL 15/1.7 is a fine lens, I like mine, but it's not without quirks: ca, nervous oof and barrel distortion.
    Bart ...

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    What put me off from buying the Pana/Leica 15 is that the aperture ring, which per se is a great thing and I really would love to use does not operate on Olympus cameras, only on Panasonic. Which drives me nuts considering this is obviously mainly a FW thing and could be easily implemented by Olympus (or Panasonic) so one could use Pana/Leica glass on Olympus m43 bodies without any restrictions.
    An absolute shame that these two companies as the main representatives of the m43 standard choose to go for a parallel route in an attempt to protect their own product ...
    Bart ...
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I shoot the 17 and I really love this lens. Especially the size and weight are nice, I have the feeling that the 15 is a bit larger and heavier. Having said this, the 15 has excellent reviews and I have no doubt it offers the typical Leica signature.

    What put me off from buying the Pana/Leica 15 is that the aperture ring, which per se is a great thing and I really would love to use does not operate on Olympus cameras, only on Panasonic. Which drives me nuts considering this is obviously mainly a FW thing and could be easily implemented by Olympus (or Panasonic) so one could use Pana/Leica glass on Olympus m43 bodies without any restrictions.
    It annoys me too that Panny lenses with a physical aperture ring does not function on Olympus bodies, but that did not stop me getting a Nocticron for my E-M1. Some of the lenses from Panasonic are simply not available in an Olympus variant.
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    The PL 15/1.7 is a fine lens, I like mine, but it's not without quirks: ca, nervous oof and barrel distortion.
    Can you point me to some samples? Also, what do you leave the aperture ring set to since the Oly doesn't recognize it?
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Can you point me to some samples? Also, what do you leave the aperture ring set to since the Oly doesn't recognize it?
    Since it doesn't work, I never pay much attention to the actual lens aperture setting, but I'm pretty sure it's mainly at 1.7 ...
    Bart ...

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Can you point me to some samples? Also, what do you leave the aperture ring set to since the Oly doesn't recognize it?
    Three samples and one close-up shot that shows the nervous oof ...

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/4-3rds-c...tml#post661243

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/4-3rds-c...tml#post661155

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/4-3rds-c...tml#post660850
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Bart ...
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Since it doesn't work, I never pay much attention to the actual lens aperture setting, but I'm pretty sure it's mainly at 1.7 ...
    Thanks Bart.

    I looked at the stock lens image on Panasonic's site and there is a A setting on the aperture ring.

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Three samples and one close-up shot that shows the nervous oof ...
    Bart,
    thanks for the links, however they don't drop me on the specific post you were trying to show me. This may be entirely my browser as I use Firefox.

    Beyond that, the image you attached did come up and I took a good look at it and to me it looks more like noise from the ISO 1600 you were using on the EM-1, than a nervous bokeh. Maybe I am more tolerant than you are, who knows? This is art anyway and is very subjective. I do like the way this lens draws.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

  48. #98
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    For me the OOF looks just great for a 15mm lens. Similar to the 17 wide open I would say.

    I cannot see any real nervousness so far, mind you I saw an image of a Nikkor 4/500 wide open and there the background looked also kind of nervous. I think this is all subjective.

    But I love what comes out of the 15 and would have bought it if the aperture ring would be fully compatible with Oly cameras. Since it is not I prefer to stay in Olympus ecoland

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Thanks Bart.

    I looked at the stock lens image on Panasonic's site and there is a A setting on the aperture ring.

    None of the aperture settings have any effect on the Oly.
    Bart ...

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    Re: The Digital Pen F

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    None of the aperture settings have any effect on the Oly.
    I am aware of that. You did mention it before. I meant that the A setting has the placebo effect of not having to worry about the aperture setting by leaving it there.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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