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The Digital Pen F

mazor

New member
It is also ~ twice as heavy as the GM5.

Apart from the size, the pen F is a lot of camera than the GM5 with its (refers to GM-5) severe limits in pretty much every department.
Would be good to know what exactly are the limitations of the GM-5 apart from the obvious lack of direct control dials, and small grip, thanks.
 

raist3d

Well-known member
It is also ~ twice as heavy as the GM5.

Apart from the size, the pen F is a lot of camera than the GM5 with its (refers to GM-5) severe limits in pretty much every department.
Well, but you can say that about a FF camera vs another. Also the AF of the GM5 may very well still be a bit better, ironically. And it's menu UI imho is still better than the Olympus.

Not quite sure what the limitations of the GM5 are here in this context. I just view it as different features I guess.

But the key differentiator is of course- the size. I think I am going to hold out for the GM7 which is the original plan. That should bring 4k video, the new sensor and a couple of other things.

- Ricardo
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Mazor, The mechanical shutter runs up to 1/500s, after that it is electronic shutter. With adapted lenses, only the electronic shutter works, It is 12bit out put with the mech shutter and presumably 10bit when on the electronic shutter.

Flash sync speed is a whopping 1/50s.

Ricardo, i also am looking forward to the GM7.
 

raist3d

Well-known member
Thanks Bart. Already read it a bit the other night. The insights I wanted to check on-

Looks like Auto ISO can be EV-compensated in Manual mode- this is new for Olympus.
You can set a custom button to toggle between MF and previous set AF mode.
It's not clear if you can apply the new JPEG profiles including the presets to in-camera raw development. My guess is that you can, but the manual doesn't explicitly mention this.
There is a "point AF" that allows you to focus on precise locations, but imho, the Panasonic implementation is better/faster/more intuitive to deal with.

- Ricardo
 

raist3d

Well-known member
Mazor, The mechanical shutter runs up to 1/500s, after that it is electronic shutter. With adapted lenses, only the electronic shutter works, It is 12bit out put with the mech shutter and presumably 10bit when on the electronic shutter.

Flash sync speed is a whopping 1/50s.

Ricardo, i also am looking forward to the GM7.
It doesn't strike me as a set of limitations when comparing cameras as much as different feature sets. The GM5 is definitively smaller and from what I see the AF interface and menu complexity seems better.

I will still try to see the PenF in person when it's available.

BTW, don't know if you meant adapted lenses like from Nikon or older mechanical ones, but the GM5 can do mechanical shutter with old 4/3rds lenses.

- Ricardo
 

etrigan63

Active member
I don't know if this is a sign of the coming Apocalypse, but my wife has agreed to let me use some of our tax return to purchase a Pen-F + 17mm f/1.8.

I am a happy camper!:grin:
 

raist3d

Well-known member
I'll be honest and say I have a hard time justifying the Pen-F over the Sony for street night life. The Sony is smaller, the Pen-F sensor doesn't seem to have improved ISO/etc much at all, while the Sony sensor I do expect it will do so (most likely the Fuji Xpro 2's base sensor).

And given my experience with the A6000 AF, I am expecting the A6300 to be a miracle here.
Sure, A6300 lacks IBIS but a lot of the lenses have IBIS. Like the SEL35/SEL55 primes.

- Ricardo
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
All the discussions about better high ISO, more MP, IBIS yes or no, AF speed and flexibility, etc.....

... the longer I think about, the more I get the feeling that we reached meanwhile a level in all disciplines that what really counts is that you like a camera, how it looks, feels and handles for you and if you are thrilled to take it and make great photos :D

I for myself will have a final look at the PEN F at it's official introduction celebration here in Austria next Sunday and then decide if I like it and would want to take it with me to shoot when mounting my 1.8/17 or 1.8/75 on it and shoot. That is all what really counts and not if high ISO, DR, MP count, AF and so on is whatever margin better, at least for me.

I might even take the silver one - just because I think it looks more cool :cool:

I think I finally matured :clap: :D
 

etrigan63

Active member
I'll be honest and say I have a hard time justifying the Pen-F over the Sony for street night life. The Sony is smaller, the Pen-F sensor doesn't seem to have improved ISO/etc much at all, while the Sony sensor I do expect it will do so (most likely the Fuji Xpro 2's base sensor).

And given my experience with the A6000 AF, I am expecting the A6300 to be a miracle here.
Sure, A6300 lacks IBIS but a lot of the lenses have IBIS. Like the SEL35/SEL55 primes.

- Ricardo
Ricardo,
your argument is balanced and rational. However, it doesn't take into account that the Pen-F is way better looking than the A6x00. NEX derived cameras have always bugged me personally with their "plate and cylinder" design ethic. And don't get me started about the last Lytro camera. If the high-ISO performance of the Pen-F is not at the level of the Sony A6x00 series, it's nothing some fast glass cannot cure and Olympus has a bevy of affordable f/1.8 primes. And let's not forget Pen-F's IBIS. I use the IBIS on my A7 II far more than the high-ISO performance (I never go above ISO 3200).

Granted, that situation works for me and may not work for you (or anybody else, YMMV).
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Well, I today had the chance to try the new PenF at a local Olympus promotion event in Vienna - and I was impressed. Key differences (advantages) to the EM1:

1) camera is extremely nice to hold even without a grip - at least for my hands
2) EVF has same resolution as in EM1, but is a totally different OLED display (versus LCD or whatever in EM1), which results in complete loss of the green cast of the EM1 EVF, giving perfect colors
3) color simulation mode dial is superb - I never thought I would fall in love with that one as I am primarily a RAW shooter, but this is just stunning and fun to use, especially the MONO modes
4) camera is VERY fast and SILENT !!!!
5) sensor has the 20MP, which is great, BUT in combination with improved high ISO and DR
6) the PenF is just a gorgeous camera, sexy if you allow me that comparison - well we had the sexy camera discussion already in other threads and I do not intend to start such a discussion again, but just that you know how I felt it!
7) of course nice to hold with some of the primes (tried it with the 1.8/17 - a lens I love) but also feels well in my hands with the new Pro 4/300 mounted, I was blown away (BTW this lens is another BEAST)

Very hard to resist to buy one :D
 

raist3d

Well-known member
Hmmm, but it seems to me that (with the exception of video) this is perfectly capable of being serious gear (just don't fiddle with the knob on the front if you don't want to!)

To me it looks like fun - and that shooting ORF+jpg fine will give you the best of both worlds. I can't see anything to dislike and am certainly dooomed!
His comments reads to me about the innovation side of things. You are right that this camera can do serious stuff but that wasn't what the comment pointed out- but about innovation. i.e. what exactly is this camera doing new, pushing the envelope forward other than JPEGS (in many ways this has been had for years), and looking pretty?

I understand that. I really wished it had the hand held super resolution.. that would have been very interesting. I do like the workflow with the JPEG engine though. This is so Pentax Q, like it. The real big change here is to be able to tweak the JPEG engine further in color and B&W.

- Ricardo
 

raist3d

Well-known member
All the discussions about better high ISO, more MP, IBIS yes or no, AF speed and flexibility, etc.....

... the longer I think about, the more I get the feeling that we reached meanwhile a level in all disciplines that what really counts is that you like a camera, how it looks, feels and handles for you and if you are thrilled to take it and make great photos :D
This really depends on what you are going photographically. I would agree with you for the most part if I was shooting in good daylight. But I shoot a lot at night. One stop of more ISO is very nice :)

I for myself will have a final look at the PEN F at it's official introduction celebration here in Austria next Sunday and then decide if I like it and would want to take it with me to shoot when mounting my 1.8/17 or 1.8/75 on it and shoot. That is all what really counts and not if high ISO, DR, MP count, AF and so on is whatever margin better, at least for me.

I might even take the silver one - just because I think it looks more cool :cool:

I think I finally matured :clap: :D
- Ricardo
 

raist3d

Well-known member
Ricardo,
your argument is balanced and rational. However, it doesn't take into account that the Pen-F is way better looking than the A6x00. NEX derived cameras have always bugged me personally with their "plate and cylinder" design ethic. And don't get me started about the last Lytro camera. If the high-ISO performance of the Pen-F is not at the level of the Sony A6x00 series, it's nothing some fast glass cannot cure and Olympus has a bevy of affordable f/1.8 primes. And let's not forget Pen-F's IBIS. I use the IBIS on my A7 II far more than the high-ISO performance (I never go above ISO 3200).

Granted, that situation works for me and may not work for you (or anybody else, YMMV).
Well certainly if you are going for looks the Pen looks better, though I wouldn't call the A6000/A6300 ugly looking. the A6000/A6300 has one thing that the Pen doesn't - and that is an awesome grip-feel when you pick it up. I can tell that already and is the #1 thing that impressed me right away when I picked up the A6000.

Fast glass you can say that about both, and fast glass won't cure color sensitivity differences that play a role in how rich your shot can look, plus the tonality of 14 bits from the Sony is very nice. IBIS is a bit overrated- if you need to freeze street subjects, IBIS is not going to help here, and the Sony has prime lenses with OIS, so it's an advantage, but I wouldn't call it a deal breaker.

But you are right- it all depends on what we all need/want individually. Totally agree with you there. The big problem the A6000/A6300 really have is lack of native e-mount lenses that are good. The SEL 35/50 aren't bad, but even the Zeiss standard zoom has many issues (I saw a co-worker go literally through no less than 7 copies of the lens in search of a good one that could do reasonable corner to corner sharpness and never found one- that's a rather big issue though at least now you can buy the G Master standard zoom and use it).

- Ricardo
 

etrigan63

Active member
Well certainly if you are going for looks the Pen looks better, though I wouldn't call the A6000/A6300 ugly looking. the A6000/A6300 has one thing that the Pen doesn't - and that is an awesome grip-feel when you pick it up. I can tell that already and is the #1 thing that impressed me right away when I picked up the A6000.

Fast glass you can say that about both, and fast glass won't cure color sensitivity differences that play a role in how rich your shot can look, plus the tonality of 14 bits from the Sony is very nice. IBIS is a bit overrated- if you need to freeze street subjects, IBIS is not going to help here, and the Sony has prime lenses with OIS, so it's an advantage, but I wouldn't call it a deal breaker.

But you are right- it all depends on what we all need/want individually. Totally agree with you there. The big problem the A6000/A6300 really have is lack of native e-mount lenses that are good. The SEL 35/50 aren't bad, but even the Zeiss standard zoom has many issues (I saw a co-worker go literally through no less than 7 copies of the lens in search of a good one that could do reasonable corner to corner sharpness and never found one- that's a rather big issue though at least now you can buy the G Master standard zoom and use it).

- Ricardo
I shoot an A7 II professionally, so I am very accustomed to the Sony grip (which is excellent). I was looking for something like the Pen-F for everyday carry as my Sony kit is getting bigger every day. I have used OMD's before, but I wanted a Pen with a viewfinder. Olympus has delivered this with enough evolutionary improvements to make this really work for me. Peter's report is very heartening and I am excited to try it out for myself.

I am not getting any G Master lenses anytime soon as they are way out of my budget. I actually shoot my A7 II with adapted Canon FD primes most of the time.
 

mazor

New member
Well, I today had the chance to try the new PenF at a local Olympus promotion event in Vienna - and I was impressed. Key differences (advantages) to the EM1:

1) camera is extremely nice to hold even without a grip - at least for my hands
2) EVF has same resolution as in EM1, but is a totally different OLED display (versus LCD or whatever in EM1), which results in complete loss of the green cast of the EM1 EVF, giving perfect colors
3) color simulation mode dial is superb - I never thought I would fall in love with that one as I am primarily a RAW shooter, but this is just stunning and fun to use, especially the MONO modes
4) camera is VERY fast and SILENT !!!!
5) sensor has the 20MP, which is great, BUT in combination with improved high ISO and DR
6) the PenF is just a gorgeous camera, sexy if you allow me that comparison - well we had the sexy camera discussion already in other threads and I do not intend to start such a discussion again, but just that you know how I felt it!
7) of course nice to hold with some of the primes (tried it with the 1.8/17 - a lens I love) but also feels well in my hands with the new Pro 4/300 mounted, I was blown away (BTW this lens is another BEAST)

Very hard to resist to buy one :D

Some valid points here, but since the last major firmware update 4.0 for the E-M1, it has once again "renewed" the camera with alot of new exciting features, one of which is the ability to enable the electronic shutter. So the E-M1 can be completely silent too when capturing exposures. From what I gather the E-M1 also has an amo LED EVF, so I guess the new PenF just has a better one?

Absolutely agree the PenF is a gorgeous camera and I can see myself getting addicted to using that color simulation mode dial on a daily basis!

Would like to see how larger primes like the Nocticron would balance on the PenF, grip etc.
 

mazor

New member
Well certainly if you are going for looks the Pen looks better, though I wouldn't call the A6000/A6300 ugly looking. the A6000/A6300 has one thing that the Pen doesn't - and that is an awesome grip-feel when you pick it up. I can tell that already and is the #1 thing that impressed me right away when I picked up the A6000.

Fast glass you can say that about both, and fast glass won't cure color sensitivity differences that play a role in how rich your shot can look, plus the tonality of 14 bits from the Sony is very nice. IBIS is a bit overrated- if you need to freeze street subjects, IBIS is not going to help here, and the Sony has prime lenses with OIS, so it's an advantage, but I wouldn't call it a deal breaker.

But you are right- it all depends on what we all need/want individually. Totally agree with you there. The big problem the A6000/A6300 really have is lack of native e-mount lenses that are good. The SEL 35/50 aren't bad, but even the Zeiss standard zoom has many issues (I saw a co-worker go literally through no less than 7 copies of the lens in search of a good one that could do reasonable corner to corner sharpness and never found one- that's a rather big issue though at least now you can buy the G Master standard zoom and use it).

- Ricardo
hmm, this is a hard choice. I do like both the PenF and the new a6300, especially the new EVFs in both. Correct me if I am wrong but does the a6300 have a higher resolution than the PenF? If I was to get a a6300, I would pair it up with the Metabones Speedbooster ultra EF-Emount adapter to relive the full frame experience without having the fake mirror box design found in the A7 series.
 
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