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The Digital Pen F

R

raist3d

Well-known member
etrigan63 said:
Isn't every camera purchase a "maybe"?
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No, it's not. I am specifically talking about "maybe they will update the firmware upgrade later to add/fix XXXX" and then purchasing the camera based on that.

Maybe this will fit my style? Maybe the lenses are as good as they say? Maybe the high ISO noise is tolerable? Maybe I can afford to expand this system? Maybe I should invest in 3rd party lenses? Etc, etc, etc...?
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No, not at all. One is a real product you can test and exists, for which reviews exist. The other one is a wish of an upgrade for a fix of something broken or addition of a feature. Very different things.

Of course, you can make your purchase decisions completely blind and without any data if you chose to do so, but it still doesn't change the point above.

- Ricardo
 
etrigan63

etrigan63

Active member
raist3d said:
No, it's not. I am specifically talking about "maybe they will update the firmware upgrade later to add/fix XXXX" and then purchasing the camera based on that.
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I am not buying this camera because of an unannounced firmware update, I am buying it because it appears to fit my needs as it is. If they fix/correct its quirks with a firmware update, great! If not, it doesn't alter the way I plan to use it.

The firmware issue in question is moot because TCSTV had a camera with pre-release firmware and ran off to review it based on the word of a marketing person (who probably doesn't know how to hold a camera).

raist3d said:
No, not at all. One is a real product you can test and exists, for which reviews exist. The other one is a wish of an upgrade for a fix of something broken or addition of a feature. Very different things.

Of course, you can make your purchase decisions completely blind and without any data if you chose to do so, but it still doesn't change the point above.

- Ricardo
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Even if you research the shiitake mushrooms out of it, buying a camera is still a maybe until you get it in your hands and personally see if it meets your needs.
 
ptomsu

ptomsu

Workshop Member
For me if I decide to buy the PenF it will be mainly on what I know so far and how the camera felt while holding and shooting it. While I am confident that Olympus will update the FW in order to meet all functions as required, I could even do without AFC for example, as I would mostly need quick and reliable AFS in all lighting conditions, which the PenF seems to deliver already as I have seen it.

My main concern is still a totally different one, I kind of still feel hooked by the Fuji XPro2, which rings even more bells for me, except that it means to start a 3rd system again (besides Nikon FF and Olympus m43 in my case). This fight is still ongoing ;)
 
Knorp

Knorp

Well-known member
etrigan63 said:
I am aware of that. You did mention it before. I meant that the A setting has the placebo effect of not having to worry about the aperture setting by leaving it there.
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Ow sorry, Carlos. I must have misunderstood your remark, but as said it really doesn't matter.
Kind regards.
 
Knorp

Knorp

Well-known member
etrigan63 said:
Bart,
thanks for the links, however they don't drop me on the specific post you were trying to show me. This may be entirely my browser as I use Firefox.

Beyond that, the image you attached did come up and I took a good look at it and to me it looks more like noise from the ISO 1600 you were using on the EM-1, than a nervous bokeh. Maybe I am more tolerant than you are, who knows? This is art anyway and is very subjective. I do like the way this lens draws.
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Hi Carlos,

let's try these two links then: CA and OOF
Can't and won't argue about the way this lens draws ... :)

All the best.
 
etrigan63

etrigan63

Active member
Knorp said:
Hi Carlos,

let's try these two links then: CA and OOF
Can't and won't argue about the way this lens draws ... :)

All the best.
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Actually, I see the CA you are talking about. Lightroom couldn't correct it?
I get what you mean about the bokeh, it looks like grain even at ISO 200.
 
R

raist3d

Well-known member
etrigan63 said:
I am not buying this camera because of an unannounced firmware update, I am buying it because it appears to fit my needs as it is. If they fix/correct its quirks with a firmware update, great! If not, it doesn't alter the way I plan to use it.
Click to expand...
That's great. I am only commenting on some of the comments I read to that effect in general.

The firmware issue in question is moot because TCSTV had a camera with pre-release firmware and ran off to review it based on the word of a marketing person (who probably doesn't know how to hold a camera).
Click to expand...
That aspect yes, but that doesn't invalidate what I said, since it was said in the context of the TCSTV review being valid.

Even if you research the shiitake mushrooms out of it, buying a camera is still a maybe until you get it in your hands and personally see if it meets your needs.
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To some degree - it really depends. Depends if you are familiar with the brand, the model, if you tried it, etc. I don't see the risk anywhere near nor this maybe in the same class or even universe as someone buying something because they think a firmware upgrade later on will fix or introduce a feature. Not in the same league.

- Ricardo
 
R

raist3d

Well-known member
Knorp said:
Arrgh ! You guys are hopeless. Well go on then - buy one ... :p
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I want to see one. What I am looking at that could be of benefit is

- new sensor (a tad better ISO, better color - don't care about the resolution except where it helps to make the noise/iso look better)
- smallest camera with 5-axis IBIS of Olympus
- EV compensation in Manual mode - this to me an issue only because Olympus does not meter as good as the Nikon 1/ Fuji XT10. If they did, I wouldn't feel like I needed it.
- JPEG engine

I want to see it in person and see how small "it feels." I am starting to get doubts it would feel "small enough" as I would like so in that case, skip. The other thing is that the JPEG engine seems very nice but as the ISO climb, I would probably still prefer to use a raw converter.

Seems like I will be stuck with the Panny GM line.

- Ricardo
 
Annna T

Annna T

Active member
raist3d said:
I want to see one. What I am looking at that could be of benefit is

- new sensor (a tad better ISO, better color - don't care about the resolution except where it helps to make the noise/iso look better)
- smallest camera with 5-axis IBIS of Olympus
- EV compensation in Manual mode - this to me an issue only because Olympus does not meter as good as the Nikon 1/ Fuji XT10. If they did, I wouldn't feel like I needed it.
- JPEG engine

I want to see it in person and see how small "it feels." I am starting to get doubts it would feel "small enough" as I would like so in that case, skip. The other thing is that the JPEG engine seems very nice but as the ISO climb, I would probably still prefer to use a raw converter.

Seems like I will be stuck with the Panny GM line.

- Ricardo
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I'd rather write "how big it feels" : from camera size comparator, they will be very slightly bigger than the E-P3-5 line, but bigger than the two Panasonic GF8 and Gm1

http://camerasize.com/compact/#654.383,459.383,658.383,491.383,ha,t
 
etrigan63

etrigan63

Active member
retow said:
Ok, this is not the answer to everything but still interesting how the new 20MP mft sensor (in this case with the GX8) compares to larger ones.Review: Fuji X-Pro2 - High Tech. Not bad, I'd say. And frankly, I had higher hopes for Fuji's new 24MP sensor.
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Even more interesting is the RAW noise analysis:



Where the GX8 (and presumably the Pen F) actually keep up with the Sony A7 II. This is going to be very interesting for me...
 
etrigan63

etrigan63

Active member
Knorp said:
Congrats ! But tell us in detail what is the first part ... :p
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Bart,
I decided to stick with the Olympus lenses and I ordered the 25mm f/1.8 plus a 3rd party metal hood (1/8 the price of the Oly hood). I ordered the grip because I have big hands and I found an inexpensive (smallish) kit bag on Amazon. A couple more gigs and paychecks and the black body will be ordered.
 
Knorp

Knorp

Well-known member
etrigan63 said:
Bart,
I decided to stick with the Olympus lenses and I ordered the 25mm f/1.8 plus a 3rd party metal hood (1/8 the price of the Oly hood). I ordered the grip because I have big hands and I found an inexpensive (smallish) kit bag on Amazon. A couple more gigs and paychecks and the black body will be ordered.
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Excellent. According to the rumour mill Oly is due to announce any time soon some very exciting fast f1.2 lenses.
So safe some dough ... :lecture:

Kind regards.
 
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