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Thread: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

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    G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    A nice day today in SE Washington, and I had to get out and try these little lenses. All shots are from c mounts. Kern Switar 25/1.4, Wollensak 1"/1.9 and 1"/2.5, and Som 1"/1.9. Most are shot at f8 or 11 ( I was also shooting my M3 with Tmax and thought I would compare once I developed the film ). I like the Dynamic B+W mode in the G1.

    Wollensak 1"/2.5 between f/8-11

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Kern 25/1.4

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Som Berthiot Lytar 1"/1.9

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Finally, Wollensak 1"/2.5

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Very nice pictures, Bill. And none of them shows any vignetting. Do you always show the full format w/o any crop or vignetting correction? I am particularly interested in the Som Berthiot, I saw a 20mm I might be interested in.
    Peter Werner
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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Bill -

    Thanks for posting these.

    Could you take some samples wide open?

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by petermcwerner View Post
    Very nice pictures, Bill. And none of them shows any vignetting. Do you always show the full format w/o any crop or vignetting correction? I am particularly interested in the Som Berthiot, I saw a 20mm I might be interested in.
    I need to start keeping notes--

    The Som, and the two Wollensaks don't vignette--but I think the Kern does vignette stopped down. These were slightly cropped because I wanted to see if I could rid the photos of the dreaded smear. It's there, but not as bad with the Som.

    As for wide open shots--here is one close to wide open with the Som at I think f/2.5 or so.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    I plan on doing more controlled testing with notes sometime soon. I'd like to have some sort of source to refer to in regard to the C-mount lenses. Robert has suggested keeping a database of lenses with various parameters, and after seeing the smear ( not sure of the term ) at the edges, I would really like to know more of what these lenses can do. I was pleasantly surprised that the Wollensaks and Som didn't vignette, even stopped down.

    I know I could have taken all but the wide open shot with the kit lens, but to me it's about having fun with the camera, and the lenses are so tiny compared to anything I've ever seen,, old and super heavy for their size, I just had to try them stopped down But I'm aware that alot of folks are interested in how these lenses perform stopped down because, for now, we don't have any fast primes specifically made for the G1.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Very nice photos Bill.

    I've been contemplating if this cine lens edge smearing is the same thing as with some of the M-mount lenses. The smearing on M mounts is clearly not related to sensor coverage, rather, due to lens design. Perhaps some of the cine lenses are simply straining to cover the entire sensor as the 22mm image circle of 4/3 is much bigger than the 12.8mm of 16mm cine cameras (or the 14.5mm of super 16.) The fact that any of these lenses cover the sensor at all is a bonus.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by wjlapier View Post
    Robert has suggested keeping a database of lenses with various parameters, and after seeing the smear ( not sure of the term ) at the edges, I would really like to know more of what these lenses can do. (...)
    That is an interesting idea and I'll be happy to contribute with the little I know. What parameters has been discussed? Do you know where Robert's post is, or where this database is discussed?

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Hi Jonas, Bill and I have been discussing amongst ourselves. So there isn't a post, or a database for that matter. The parameters we have listed include:

    Manufacturer
    Model number (if any)
    Mount (c-mount, Arri, etc.)
    Focal Length
    Aperture
    Rear lens diameter
    Sensor coverage (16:9, 4:3)
    Machining required?
    Length
    Weight
    Minimum aperture

    What are you thoughts? Anything that should be added or deleted on this list?

    It would be nice to have photos of the actual lenses as well.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Just a casual observer here since I don't own the G1. But I must say that I really LIKE the "smear". In fact, one of the attractive things (to me) about the ability of the G1 is the chance that you might be able to mount some lens you find at a flea market on the thing and it will yield some odd results that can't really be duplicated in post. Sort of special effects lens.

    While it's mildly interesting that you can mount a $150 lens on the G1 and achieve modest results that hold up as "not bad considering the price", I think there's potential here to find ones that yield a unique "look."

    Just a thought and thanks for sharing your experiments!

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Very nice photos Bill.

    I've been contemplating if this cine lens edge smearing is the same thing as with some of the M-mount lenses. The smearing on M mounts is clearly not related to sensor coverage, rather, due to lens design. Perhaps some of the cine lenses are simply straining to cover the entire sensor as the 22mm image circle of 4/3 is much bigger than the 12.8mm of 16mm cine cameras (or the 14.5mm of super 16.) The fact that any of these lenses cover the sensor at all is a bonus.

    The whole smearing issue isn't clear to me. I see something in the edges of the pictures, so i thought it was the smearing, or what ever it is, that was duscussed here last week.

    BTW, sorry Robert for bringing up the database idea, maybe prematurely. We should start a thread and discuss the parameters, and shooting technique required so that we can, as much as possible, maintain some sort of constant--someone needs to be looking over my shoulders to make sure I'm taking notes

    Here is an image from the Wollensak 1"/1.9 at about f8 or 11 using 16:9 ratio.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    It's definitely smearing, but maybe it doesn't really matter what the reason is behind it.

    Regarding a database discussion, I'm all for starting it in this thread. There are lots of people experimenting, and bits and pieces of information on various threads and forums. It would be valuable to have all this information in one place. I've already started a Google Docs spreadsheet, which can easily be publicly viewed, once it has some real data.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Manufacturer
    Model number (if any)
    Mount (c-mount, Arri, etc.)
    Focal Length
    Aperture
    Rear lens diameter
    Sensor coverage (16:9, 4:3)
    Machining required?
    Length
    Weight
    Minimum aperture
    Hi,

    That list covers a lot of the basics.

    Filter threads?
    Inbuilt hood?

    The only C-mount lens I have tried is the Pentax 25/1.4. That's a CCTV lens and thus not really the same thing as a cine lens. I was a little surprised when I got it finding that the both the focusing ring and the aperture ring are well damped. Other findings are that there are no click stops (the aperture ring) which I guess some may care about while other user will be happy not to have. Locking pins (not of any interest to me, but you never know)?

    I think links should be included, links to members reviews and links to sample images.

    Taking it a step further I would like to encourage people to write their personal reviews of lenses they try, use or love. The mentioned Pentax for example has a focus plane that is anything but plane, it has 8, not rounded, aperture blades, the bokeh is nice and coma is pronounced (and more). It takes 27mm filter (not 40.5 as B&H says). Such things could easily be commented on if there was an easy to fill in form for "reviews". That way one doesn't have to be a literate and native English spoken person to share knowledge.

    Right now I am using a Canon FD24/2 for my normal lens. I have a Hexanon UC 28/1.8 on its way. Are such lenses of interest as well?

    Then again, I tend to overdo things.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Jonas,

    Filter size and hood info are good to add. Also, click stops (this will be of value for GH1 owners...silent adjustment of aperture while filming.)

    I also added a 'type' field in the spreadsheet to indicate CCTV or cine.

    This could be all-inclusive and cover every conceivable lens and lens mount, although the cine lenses are somewhat of a special case due to sensor coverage questions and possible machining which generally aren't the case with adapted 35mm lenses.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    This could be all-inclusive and cover every conceivable lens and lens mount, although the cine lenses are somewhat of a special case due to sensor coverage questions and possible machining which generally aren't the case with adapted 35mm lenses.
    Hi

    Covering everything isn't bad, is it...

    OK, let's leave the 35mm lenses aside for now. But having space for links to possible reviews and sample images can't hurt, can it? Some job of course....

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Got any ideas on how all the data could all be user-entered, including the links?

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Model number (if any)
    Mount (c-mount, Arri, etc.)
    Focal Length
    Aperture
    Rear lens diameter
    Sensor coverage (16:9, 4:3)
    Machining required?
    Length
    Weight
    Minimum aperture

    What are you thoughts? Anything that should be added or deleted on this list?

    It would be nice to have photos of the actual lenses as well.
    Completely agree. May I add an observation about measurements. We Europeans use metric, US use imperial. I think it is quite important to standardize on one system (of course metric !!!) or have both, or confusion and misunderstandings will arise. To me, for instance 3/8" is a riddle, I must first look for a conversion software to understand what it means in mm. Sorry to speak for my own.
    Peter Werner
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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    I think we shouLd aLL go over to Jona's and take pics of the [email protected] b00k case...the Gold Standard of smear evaluation

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Y.B.Hudson III View Post
    I think we shouLd aLL go over to Jona's and take pics of the [email protected] b00k case...the Gold Standard of smear evaluation
    Kamera Kat would like it made known that she resents that remark, as she considers her wooden self to be the gold standard.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    I'll let you guys duke it out over the gold smear standard, but as for measurements, the metric standard is it.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic



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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    OK--My Tevidon finally arrived after enroute for a month A quick check and this lens is sharp wide open. edge check shows almost no smearing--of course it still needs to be machined. First is f/1.4, second is f/1.4 but coffee cup is at the edge of frame, and last pic is f/11 cup is same spot. There is vignette, but I wonder if it's because it's not fully mounted.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Y.B.Hudson III View Post

    I like it! Lens and any info would be appreciated

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Y.B.Hudson III View Post
    I think we shouLd aLL go over to Jona's and take pics of the [email protected] b00k case...the Gold Standard of smear evaluation
    Anyone not having a book shelf of their own is welcome...
    We can also do something with the USAF charts...

    Or we can just play with light and have fun

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    Re: Vignetting on Tevidon

    Quote Originally Posted by wjlapier View Post
    There is vignette, but I wonder if it's because it's not fully mounted.
    By this, do you mean you haven't machined it for infinity focus? I have done so on mine and it still vignettes a little.

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    Re: C Mount Lens List

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
    That list covers a lot of the basics.

    Filter threads?
    Inbuilt hood?
    I'd add also whether it it a 1", 2/3" etc., this would steer people away from lenses that vignette too much if that isn't what they're looking for.

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    Re: C Mount Lens List

    Quote Originally Posted by m3photo View Post
    I'd add also whether it it a 1", 2/3" etc., this would steer people away from lenses that vignette too much if that isn't what they're looking for.
    uuhhh, what is 2/3" in metric?
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    Re: C Mount Lens List

    Quote Originally Posted by petermcwerner View Post
    uuhhh, what is 2/3" in metric?
    In CCTV terms, just think of 1/3", 2/3", and 1" as arbitrary designations. They don't have anything to do with any dimensions you can measure directly (although they made sense back in the days when video cameras depended on vacuum-tube sensors.) It's kind of like, say, size 120 rollfilm, which doesn't any dimension that corresponds to 120 anything -- it's just an arbitrary designator.

    Here's a link to a chart I just discovered that seems to cover all the basics. (I'm gonna bookmark this one myself for my future C-mount shopping spree.) This Wikipedia article says the active area of a Four Thirds sensor is 17.3mm x 13mm with a diagonal of 21.6mm, which is quite a bit larger than even the 1-inch size. Ditto Super 16, which is 12.52 x 7.41mm.

    Reading all these specs makes me surprised at what good results people are getting from so many of these lenses! Manufacturers must have designed a lot of safety margin into them.
    Last edited by Ranger 9; 9th March 2009 at 14:58.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    First stab at a G1 C Mount Lens Compatibility List:

    http://tinyurl.com/G1cmount

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    First stab at a G1 C Mount Lens Compatibility List:

    http://tinyurl.com/G1cmount
    Thanx Robert. I wonder about the ebay links. They will someday disappear. Maybe borrow the pic of the lens on the camera, host/link it, and give the seller credit for the photo, with their permission of course.

    From my collection what you haven't put on the database:

    Sony TV 16/1.8
    A little machining required ( did it myself )
    Not full coverage even at 16:9

    Kodak Cine Ektar 15/2.5
    No machining
    Not full coverage even at 16:9

    Schneider Kreuznach Xenon 16/1.9
    No machining
    Not full coverage even at 16:9

    Kern Switar 16/1.8 H16 RX*
    No machining
    Not full coverage even at 16:9
    *Lens is sharp at 1.8 regardless what is said about RX lenses. Apparently RX lenses are not sharp wide open on non RX movie cameras and they need to be stopped down to f4 or 5.6 to sharpen up. This wasn't my experience when testing the lens for sharpness wide open.

    Som Berthiot Lytar 1"/1.9
    No machining
    Full coverage at all ratios

    Wollensak Cine Velostigmat 1:/1.9
    No machining
    Full coverage at all ratios

    From today's shoot:

    Canon 50/1.8
    No machining
    Full coverage

    I'll check your database again to see if I missed anything.

    I do have an Angenieux Retrofocus 10/1.8 that doesn't require machining to mount, but there is no focus ring so the lens won't work as usual, unless you unscrew it until the image comes into focus. Basically focus with screwing the lens in and out. I'm returning this one.

    From Nikkor 55/1.2 at 1.2--my kid watching the Muppets Show on youtube!

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    The two Kerns you have listed of mine are both Switars. The 25/1.4 is a Switar too and needs machining and doesn't cover the sensor even at 16:9.

    The Wollensak on your list is a Raptar. Also, on the side of the lens is written "Naval Res. Lab. Wash. 20 DC RFC 38"

    Also, don't forget the Cosmicar you have ( I have too ). Needs machining, but almost covers the sensor at 16:9--good news

    I just noticed the link to the 35/2 is no longer available. Bummer, I wanted to see how much and what it looked like.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Thanks Bill. That 35/2 linked expired right after I posted the list.

    Which Wollensak is a Raptar? I have the Cine Velostigmat listed...

    Added the Cosmicar and Computar.

    I'd like to have a further description of coverage. "Full" is very helpful of course, but "no" doesn't differentiate between "corners barely dark" and "circular image." Any ideas?

    I used to have the 50/1.2 Nikkor, really liked it, shouldn't have sold it.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    The Velostigmat is 1.9 and the Raptar is 2.5--both 1".

    I'll check my lenses that don't provide full coverage and I'll let you know how much.

    The Nikkor 55/1.2 is nice. Actually sharp at 1.2 contrary to what alot of folks said. Not sure which I like better, the Rokkor 58/1.2 F-mount or the 55/1.2 Nikkor. Both are a load of glass

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Thanks Bill. That 35/2 linked expired right after I posted the list.

    Which Wollensak is a Raptar? I have the Cine Velostigmat listed...

    Added the Cosmicar and Computar.

    I'd like to have a further description of coverage. "Full" is very helpful of course, but "no" doesn't differentiate between "corners barely dark" and "circular image." Any ideas?

    I used to have the 50/1.2 Nikkor, really liked it, shouldn't have sold it.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    OK, I updated the chart to list the 'saks. No machining, full coverage.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    One that got away:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:X:RTQ:US:1123

    I love the description; "Som Berthiot Cinor Special 1:19 f=15 (and there are 2 more small numbers/letters, following)."

    I asked the seller about the rear mount and they said threaded and ~25mm diameter. I forgot about it

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    I saw that one earlier today, it had no bids.

    There are still bargains, I found good deals on three that offer full sensor coverage. They are cheap enough I may keep them all: Som Berthiot Cinor 25/1.8 and Lytar 25/1.9, and a Xenoplan 25/1.9 which Rabe raves about. "It is an extremely sharp and brilliant lens, brings optimum results at cine film or on digital sensors. This lens costs actual $1500"
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=270352861081

    Vivek also says the Xenoplan is tops.

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by wjlapier View Post
    Som Berthiot Lytar 1"/1.9
    No machining
    Full coverage at all ratios
    Bill,

    If this is the lens that took the picture of the 2 vases on columns you posted in the Fun with 4/3rds cameras/ Image Thread, I would strongly disagree. While there was no vignetting, the sharpness is falling off so markedly from the center (smearing) that it my opinion it is unusable on a G1. This is certainly not what I would call Full coverage.

    You wrote yourself in answer to my question I'm noticing that, with the SOM anyway, that when shot wide open the center is sharp as it should be, but from there it get's soft or smeary.

    Please be more critical and objective about your lenses. One tends to love one's own babies and to justify to oneself the money spent, but this database is meant to guide other users in their buying decisions and not to mislead them.

    Thank you
    Kind regards,
    Peter
    Last edited by petermcwerner; 12th March 2009 at 00:34.
    Peter Werner
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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by wjlapier View Post
    I asked the seller about the rear mount and they said threaded and ~25mm diameter.
    c-monut is 25mm

    In Europe, c-mount is often referred to as 25mm screw mount.

    C-mount lenses provide a male thread which mates with a female thread on the camera. The thread is nominally 1 inch (25 mm) in diameter, with 32 threads per inch, designated as "1-32 UN 2A" in the ANSI B1.1 standard for unified screw threads. The flange focal distance is 17.526 millimetres (0.6900 in) for a C-mount.
    Peter Werner
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    Senior Member petermcwerner's Avatar
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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    This is a new lens I received today, not the excellent 25mm/1.5 I still use and showed in the thread An ideal fast normal lens, my Schneider Xenon 25mm/1.5


    Attachment 13413

    Schneider Kreuznach Cine-Xenon 25mm/1.4 Serial # 6924989
    No machining
    Not full coverage

    Unusable on the G1 according to my standards
    Last edited by petermcwerner; 12th March 2009 at 05:56.
    Peter Werner
    Leica M8, R9+DMR & Digilux 2; Nikon D700; Panasonic FX01, FX150 & G1; Samsung TL350 (WB 2000)

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by petermcwerner View Post
    Bill,

    If this is the lens that took the picture of the 2 vases on columns you posted in the Fun with 4/3rds cameras/ Image Thread, I would strongly disagree. While there was no vignetting, the sharpness is falling off so markedly from the center (smearing) that it my opinion it is unusable on a G1. This is certainly not what I would call Full coverage.

    You wrote yourself in answer to my question I'm noticing that, with the SOM anyway, that when shot wide open the center is sharp as it should be, but from there it get's soft or smeary.

    Please be more critical and objective about your lenses. One tends to love one's own babies and to justify to oneself the money spent, but this database is meant to guide other users in their buying decisions and not to mislead them.

    Thank you
    Kind regards,
    Peter
    Peter, all I was referring to was lack of vignette as in the case of the Kern 10 and 16. I agree we need to be objective when evaluating these lenses. Maybe there can be a place for comments such as mine regarding the edge softness ( smearing ) of the Som when shot wide open, and maybe we need to describe what "full coverage" means. We are in the infant stage of this database and objectivity is key, I agree, but changes should and will be made.

    Thanx for bringing that to everyone's attention. I think it is an important idea that needs to be discussed a little more.

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    Senior Member petermcwerner's Avatar
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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by wjlapier View Post
    Peter, all I was referring to was lack of vignette as in the case of the Kern 10 and 16. I agree we need to be objective when evaluating these lenses. Maybe there can be a place for comments such as mine regarding the edge softness ( smearing ) of the Som when shot wide open, and maybe we need to describe what "full coverage" means. We are in the infant stage of this database and objectivity is key, I agree, but changes should and will be made.

    Thanx for bringing that to everyone's attention. I think it is an important idea that needs to be discussed a little more.
    Bill,

    Sorry for being a bit aggressive in my post, it may have been my personal letdown with C-mount lenses I spent money on and that are in my opinion totally unfit to be used on the G1.

    Severe smearing is as bad as vignetting and in my opinion the database should provide guidance to prospective buyers of c-mount lenses in terms of "fitness for use on the G1". I agree that this is not an easy task and that it should be discussed further.

    Perhaps we should add pictures showing the defects, for vignetting a white wall (or ceiling) and for smearing an example like the one you had posted with the 2 vases of the SOM Berthiot.
    Peter Werner
    Leica M8, R9+DMR & Digilux 2; Nikon D700; Panasonic FX01, FX150 & G1; Samsung TL350 (WB 2000)

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by petermcwerner View Post
    Bill,

    Sorry for being a bit aggressive in my post, it may have been my personal letdown with C-mount lenses I spent money on and that are in my opinion totally unfit to be used on the G1.

    Severe smearing is as bad as vignetting and in my opinion the database should provide guidance to prospective buyers of c-mount lenses in terms of "fitness for use on the G1". I agree that this is not an easy task and that it should be discussed further.

    Perhaps we should add pictures showing the defects, for vignetting a white wall (or ceiling) and for smearing an example like the one you had posted with the 2 vases of the SOM Berthiot.
    I was thinking the same thing. A shot of a white wall to show vignette, and a shot showing the smearing. Maybe refrain from comments like "not usable on a G1" because, even though they may not be useable for one person, someone else might like the effect it produces.

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    Senior Member petermcwerner's Avatar
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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by wjlapier View Post
    I was thinking the same thing. A shot of a white wall to show vignette, and a shot showing the smearing. Maybe refrain from comments like "not usable on a G1" because, even though they may not be useable for one person, someone else might like the effect it produces.
    I think one should make a comment but it should be made clear that it is the testers personal opinion and perhaps be expressed in more "politically correct" language. Although I think that we are in a private forum and one should have the right to voice ones (technical) opinions as long as they are not offensive.
    Peter Werner
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  46. #46
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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Greetings all (first post here..)

    I'm here to help with the lens data base. Here's my current collection (I'll update the info as I gather it, some will be repeats):

    Schneider 10mm/F1.8 (very sharp)
    machining: no
    coverage: no

    Cosmicar 12.5/F1.4
    machining: yes
    coverage: no

    Schneider 16mm/F1.4 (on it's way)
    machining: I don't think so
    coverage: 18mm (so I've read)

    Angenieux 25mm/F0.95
    machining:no
    coverage: almost 16:9

    Soligor 25mm/F0.95
    machining:no
    coverage: almost 16:9

    Schneider 50mm/F2 (crazy sharp)
    machining:no
    coverage: yes

    I think we should try to pin down the image circle on these lenses because I do find the non coverage lenses 'useful' albeit I'm coming at this from a timelapse/cinematic perspective (and thinking ahead to the GH1) for the following purposes (using peters 25/1.5 example):
    This is how I've used the Schneider 10/1.8 with awesome results


    This is how I see the GH1 with c-mounts being very interesting for 720p production...
    Last edited by milapse; 12th March 2009 at 08:51.

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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by petermcwerner View Post
    Severe smearing is as bad as vignetting and in my opinion the database should provide guidance to prospective buyers of c-mount lenses in terms of "fitness for use on the G1". I agree that this is not an easy task and that it should be discussed further.

    Perhaps we should add pictures showing the defects, for vignetting a white wall (or ceiling) and for smearing an example like the one you had posted with the 2 vases of the SOM Berthiot.

    Hi,

    I just wanted to give some input on these lens tests.

    IMHO, if we do create a database of lenses "fit for use on G1", we can not limit ourselfs to "looking if the image fills the sensor". We also have to care about other parameters such as resolution (if not why do we have MP sensors in our cameras ?), distortion, aberration (sferical & chromatic), flare, ghost images, diffraction, ..

    And we have to do so in a coherent manner, Peter should test his lenses the same way as Bill does, etc.

    Test patterns for lens test do exist, they are available for download from several sites, however, mainly not free of charge. But we could make something for ourselfs. It is not very important what it is or how it looks like, but it has to be the same for every tester.

    Also, we need to define standard test conditions, like : camera on a tripod, exposure time 1/60, HQ jpg setting, ... so that "shaky hands" or postprocessing do not influence the results etc.

    If we are ready to go down that road, our database will be a useful one.
    Otherwise, people spending money based upon our "recommendations" might become very unhappy visitors at this forum.

    I'm ready to participate setting up a procedure, however, I don't own such exotic lenses, so I could not help in the testing.

    C U
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

  48. #48
    Senior Member petermcwerner's Avatar
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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    Hi,

    I just wanted to give some input on these lens tests.

    IMHO, if we do create a database of lenses "fit for use on G1", we can not limit ourselfs to "looking if the image fills the sensor". We also have to care about other parameters such as resolution (if not why do we have MP sensors in our cameras ?), distortion, aberration (sferical & chromatic), flare, ghost images, diffraction, ..

    And we have to do so in a coherent manner, Peter should test his lenses the same way as Bill does, etc.

    Test patterns for lens test do exist, they are available for download from several sites, however, mainly not free of charge. But we could make something for ourselfs. It is not very important what it is or how it looks like, but it has to be the same for every tester.

    Also, we need to define standard test conditions, like : camera on a tripod, exposure time 1/60, HQ jpg setting, ... so that "shaky hands" or postprocessing do not influence the results etc.

    If we are ready to go down that road, our database will be a useful one.
    Otherwise, people spending money based upon our "recommendations" might become very unhappy visitors at this forum.
    Rafael,

    I totally agree with the necessity of consistent test patterns. However, I have a major doubt about your suggested approach. Most of us participate in this forum for the fun of it. We like sharing our experiences but I wonder whether anyone here can and would invest the time and effort it needs to test lenses in the professional way you suggest.

    Shooting a white wall or ceiling and posting a few pictures we have not made specifically for the purpose of testing is one thing, following an exact protocol might be more than anyone is ready to do.

    I have 2 c-mount lenses and am waiting for a third one to come. After that, having looked at some of the results posted here and my own letdown with the 25mm/1.4 Schneider Cine-Xenon, I intend to close the c-mount chapter.

    There are other format lenses that pose much less problems and give excellent results on the G1: Leica R, Nikon F, Pentax; I have become tired of throwing money at a potentially unsatisfactory category of lenses and shall let others play with their gadgets. I prefer to use a camera for making (hopefully good) photographs. I shall be pleased to share them, as well as my knowledge, as long as it is for my pleasure.

    Cheers
    Peter
    Peter Werner
    Leica M8, R9+DMR & Digilux 2; Nikon D700; Panasonic FX01, FX150 & G1; Samsung TL350 (WB 2000)

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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    [QUOTE=monza;83198]First stab at a G1 C Mount Lens Compatibility List:

    Monza;

    I would suggest that you add a place for a URL to see samples from the lens. This way, the table outlives the thread.

    Moderator ... Could that link then be made sticky like the adapter one?

    Dave

  50. #50
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    Re: G1, B+W, Cine Lenses, & 1 Color Pic

    Test patterns, whether downloaded or homemade, don't furnish any useful information unless you're seeking a lens specifically for photographing flat, two-dimensional objects oriented parallel to the image plane at a fairly close distance.

    (Otherwise you're just gathering info that seems impressively precise, but isn't really accurate. Illustration of precision vs. accuracy: Suppose I put a profile on a dating website stating that I'm six feet, 3 and one-fourth inches tall, weigh 177 lbs 6-5/8 oz, and have a net worth of thirty-one million, six hundred seventy-two thousand, three hundred forty dollars and fifty-seven cents. All those figures are extremely precise, but none of them are accurate!)

    Most of us are interested in messing around with these C-mount lenses not in the interest of best photographic performance (for which we'd be better off with the kit lenses or Four Thirds lenses used via an adapter) but for the impressionistic or atmospheric qualities they provide.

    For those types of use, it's important to know whether a given lens will require machining or not (although this may depend on the type of adapter you use) and it's useful to know whether or not you'll get dark corners at various format sizes. One-word subjective evaluations of corner smearing and bokeh might be useful as long as everyone remembers that they are subjective.

    But beyond that, I think the only really useful information comes from looking at photos that make use of the best qualities of a particular lens, regardless of what those qualities might be. I don't think we can come up with a useful quantitative way to evaluate these lenses other than for their simple mechanical and optical properties.

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