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Thread: Panasonic G9

  1. #51
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    It's a chunky camera and a giant compared to the A7rIII: Digital Camera Size Comparison
    I think we can do without that grip, no ?
    Bart ...

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    It's a chunky camera and a giant compared to the A7rIII: Digital Camera Size Comparison
    I think we can do without that grip, no ?
    It is the lenses that contribute most to the weight/space in my backpack. IMO, my M1m2, with a serious grip, handles much better than my A7rII.
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    It is the lenses that contribute most to the weight/space in my backpack. IMO, my M1m2, with a serious grip, handles much better than my A7rII.
    True - I have the battery grips for both, but use them rarely nowadays.
    By the look of it, I'm confident that the G9 without the battery grip will handle perfectly well.
    Bart ...

  4. #54
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    Can we have the OVF vs EVF discussion in a different thread (where I could write why I think OVFs are still much better than EVFs ;-). )

    Anyway ... just saw this G9 advertisement video by the legendary bird/wildlife photographer Bence Mate:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CxVkl-fL3Y

    If he is willing to put his name behind that product, I am really, really seriously thinking of using G9 instead of Nikon D500/D5 for some wildlife photography. Would really like to know how G9's focusing compares to M1m2.
    I would say - without having used the G9 - that the G9 AF should be pretty much faster in good light but slower in low or less light. But I could be wrong. Interested to see what the first real comparisons will show.

    Anyway WRT D500/D5 - I am so happy that these cameras are meanwhile fully out of comparison for me - I could not see any reason to go back to DSLRs, even if they would be a tick faster, but that weight (cameras and lenses) just turns me off. And also you do not like the EVF/OVF discussion, the EVF is a major part for me why I prefer mirrorless - at least at the stage of the EVF's current implementations.

  5. #55
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    It's a chunky camera and a giant compared to the A7rIII: Digital Camera Size Comparison
    I think we can do without that grip, no ?
    The big battery has to go somewhere, so the grip is difficult to avoid. In addition, I think large lenses are easier to handle with a good grip. The weight is about the same as the Sony anyway, and if you compare the lenses with 70-200 eqv. lenses, the difference is huge.

    http://camerasize.com/compact/#724.392,725.627,ha,t

  6. #56
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The big battery has to go somewhere, so the grip is difficult to avoid. In addition, I think large lenses are easier to handle with a good grip. The weight is about the same as the Sony anyway, and if you compare the lenses with 70-200 eqv. lenses, the difference is huge.

    http://camerasize.com/compact/#724.392,725.627,ha,t
    It's the integrated grip that seems to be just perfect IMO and that's why I'm doubting the need for that optional battery grip.
    Sorry if I was not clear, JÝrgen.

    Krgds.
    Bart ...
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  7. #57
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    I spent the morning shooting with my Lumix 100-400 set to 200mm to see whether you really can do birding and wildlife with a 20mpx crop sensor.

    I was working towards getting the Oly 300/4 for my GH5 but now I am thrown into confusion by the 200/2.8. My heart says Lumix and my head says Oly.

    Nevertheless I did manage to pull out some good bird photos at a native 200mm. One thing which had not really penetrated my thinking is the additional stops over the 100-400 at the same zoom focal length. In winter that is an important factor, e.g. being able to keep up to 1/1000-1/2000 even on a dim day.

    Anyway, just in case people are wondering if 200mm (400mm equiv) can yield good results, this is about 50% of the frame with the 100-400 set to 200mm, iso800, f5.1, 1/5000 (electronic shutter).

    To afford either lens I have to sell some kit or I think my wife will serve me with divorce papers :-)


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  8. #58
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    I spent the morning shooting with my Lumix 100-400 set to 200mm to see whether you really can do birding and wildlife with a 20mpx crop sensor.

    I was working towards getting the Oly 300/4 for my GH5 but now I am thrown into confusion by the 200/2.8. My heart says Lumix and my head says Oly.

    Nevertheless I did manage to pull out some good bird photos at a native 200mm. One thing which had not really penetrated my thinking is the additional stops over the 100-400 at the same zoom focal length. In winter that is an important factor, e.g. being able to keep up to 1/1000-1/2000 even on a dim day.

    Anyway, just in case people are wondering if 200mm (400mm equiv) can yield good results, this is about 50% of the frame with the 100-400 set to 200mm, iso800, f5.1, 1/5000 (electronic shutter).

    To afford either lens I have to sell some kit or I think my wife will serve me with divorce papers :-)
    Number one to consider: the 2.8/200 comes with a 1.4TC that makes it a 4/280 - equals a 4/560 in FF

    Number two to consider: Always follow your heart!
    Last edited by ptomsu; 11th November 2017 at 01:42.
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  9. #59
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Number one to consider: the 2.8/200 comes with a 1.4TC that makes it a 4/280 - equals a 4/560 in FF

    Number two to consider: Always follow your heart!
    Hopefully image quality is not too much affected by this TC.
    The Oly delivers a 'clean' 4/600.
    Just saying ...
    Bart ...

  10. #60
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Number one to consider: the 2.8/200 comes with a 1.4TC that makes it a 4/280 - equals a 4/560 in FF

    Number two to consider: Always follow your heart!
    That did make me 'lol'. Good advice, Peter. Fortunately, there is an open day with Panasonic products next week at my local camera shop, so hopefully I can take a look. I also have an offer to take a loan of a 300/4 for three days but I'm trying to find a period where there may be some sunshine so I can hike to my favourite birding spot and give it a good trial.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Hopefully image quality is not too much affected by this TC.
    The Oly delivers a 'clean' 4/600.
    Just saying ...
    Even with a TC the 200/2.8 has less reach than the 300/4.

    The only thing I will say based on the experience of using Leica products for many years is this. With each new Leica product you wonder if they have got it wrong. The camera or the lens always seems to be slightly different to the competition. Then after a while you realise that the thinking was a lot deeper than just following the competition.

    So, why a 200 f2.8 when clearly a 300/4 would compete with the Oly. Then you think: it is easier to 'up' the reach of 200 with TCs but you can't down the reach of a fixed 300 or reduce the aperture by a stop.

    LouisB
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  11. #61
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    I'll NEVER change my GX80 for G9, bigger, heavy, 4x price
    - G9 also only can make photos :-)

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    That did make me 'lol'. Good advice, Peter. Fortunately, there is an open day with Panasonic products next week at my local camera shop, so hopefully I can take a look. I also have an offer to take a loan of a 300/4 for three days but I'm trying to find a period where there may be some sunshine so I can hike to my favourite birding spot and give it a good trial.



    Even with a TC the 200/2.8 has less reach than the 300/4.

    The only thing I will say based on the experience of using Leica products for many years is this. With each new Leica product you wonder if they have got it wrong. The camera or the lens always seems to be slightly different to the competition. Then after a while you realise that the thinking was a lot deeper than just following the competition.

    So, why a 200 f2.8 when clearly a 300/4 would compete with the Oly. Then you think: it is easier to 'up' the reach of 200 with TCs but you can't down the reach of a fixed 300 or reduce the aperture by a stop.

    LouisB
    Just to make things more complicated, there is a new Leica 50-200/2.8-4 under development

    https://www.43rumors.com/leica-50-20...released-2018/

    I am slowly coming into my dream land with m43

    And Olympus hopefully starts to wake up ...
    Life is an ever changing journey
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  13. #63
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Just to make things more complicated, there is a new Leica 50-200/2.8-4 under development

    https://www.43rumors.com/leica-50-20...released-2018/

    I am slowly coming into my dream land with m43

    And Olympus hopefully starts to wake up ...
    More of a nightmare for me

    a PL 12-60 twinned with a PL 50-200 would probably be a preferable travel pairing
    to my existing Olympus 12-100 Pro and 40-150 Pro

    But then I'd have to change my EM1 Mk2 for a G9
    Ian.
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by Elderly View Post
    More of a nightmare for me

    a PL 12-60 twinned with a PL 50-200 would probably be a preferable travel pairing
    to my existing Olympus 12-100 Pro and 40-150 Pro

    But then I'd have to change my EM1 Mk2 for a G9
    I think that the optimal Olympus pairing would be 12-40 with 40-150, while 12-100 is a great single lens system. Why would PL 12-60 with PL 50-200 be a preferable travel pairing?

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I am slowly coming into my dream land with m43
    Within last years I had Sony, Sigma, Canon, Nikon, Samsung aaaand Lumixes (from GH1, GH4, G1, G3, G5 ...).
    All of them with x-thousands :-) of lenses ... fitting each camera!

    Last year (it took long time) I found: LUMIXes are best! (and my NX500 with 28mpixel, 4K) with lenses from 6.5mm to 500mm

    If Pana doesn't invent a GX90 with hundreds of (essential!?)non-plus-ultras for
    less then $ 999 ... I am very satisfied.
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    I think that the optimal Olympus pairing would be 12-40 with 40-150, while 12-100 is a great single lens system. Why would PL 12-60 with PL 50-200 be a preferable travel pairing?
    While the optimal Olympus lens pairing for travel is for sure either the 12-100 as a single lens setup or the 12-40 and 40-150, the PL 12-60 and PL 50-200 would give you a reach to 400mm effective focal length and I assume in a lighter and smaller setup than with the Oly pairing, which offers instead a constant 2.8 aperture.

    So there a pro's and con's for both and I think I might end up with both systems in order to be able to choose the best combo for slightly different outings (travels).

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    While the optimal Olympus lens pairing for travel is for sure either the 12-100 as a single lens setup or the 12-40 and 40-150, the PL 12-60 and PL 50-200 would give you a reach to 400mm effective focal length and I assume in a lighter and smaller setup than with the Oly pairing, which offers instead a constant 2.8 aperture.

    So there a pro's and con's for both and I think I might end up with both systems in order to be able to choose the best combo for slightly different outings (travels).
    Which is the PL 50-200? I see a PL 45-200/f4-5.6, which is not of professional designation, and probably not that superb. For traveling, and assuming that 12-100mm is enough coverage, I may rather go with PL 12-35/f2.8 and PL 35-100/f2.8. Less than 100g heavier than Olympus 12-100 but at f2.8 instead of f4 ... and much lighter than Olympus 12-40/40-150 combo.

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    Which is the PL 50-200? I see a PL 45-200/f4-5.6, which is not of professional designation, and probably not that superb. For traveling, and assuming that 12-100mm is enough coverage, I may rather go with PL 12-35/f2.8 and PL 35-100/f2.8. Less than 100g heavier than Olympus 12-100 but at f2.8 instead of f4 ... and much lighter than Olympus 12-40/40-150 combo.
    Have a look on this link, that I already posted before and you will see the DG 50-200/2.8-4 ....

    https://www.43rumors.com/leica-50-20...released-2018/
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  19. #69
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    For the time being I'll stick with my E-M1.2 to take advantage of my FT lenses that require PDAF support.



    Olympus E-M1MarkII + EC-20 2x TC + ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 300mm 1:2.8 @ ISO 200, FOCAL LENGTH 600.0 mm (600.0 mm in 35mm), FOV (1200.0 mm = 120 cm = 1.2 m in 35mm), APERTURE f/6.3, EXPOSURE TIME 0.00156s (1/640).

    Not bad, not bad at all, considering a 2x TC is in the loop!
    Last edited by k-hawinkler; 11th November 2017 at 21:59.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    I think that the optimal Olympus pairing would be 12-40 with 40-150, while 12-100 is a great single lens system. Why would PL 12-60 with PL 50-200 be a preferable travel pairing?
    I had the 12-40 and 40-150 pairing.

    However, for MY style of photography which is almost never considered, and usually attempts to capture a fleeting moment, 40 mm was often not long enough.
    That meant a lot of lens changing - by which time the moment had passed.

    For my daily journeys a one lens solution is all I want to carry,
    and again 40 mm was not long enough.

    Since I've had the 12-100, the 40-150 gets less use and so it's become a large heavy lump to carry about
    for only the occasional use (I went into micro 4/3rds in 2009 for its portability).

    The 12-60 is smaller/lighter/faster than the 12-100, but with the lack of the former's reach,
    but 60 at the long end would (I think ) suffice for the majority of my shots.

    The forthcoming PL 50-200 I would HOPE, be lighter than my 40-150 and I feel that the
    extra reach might come in useful.
    Ian.
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Bart ...
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  22. #72
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Yeah ... ough ..

    Canon 1DX II - 20 Mpixel
    body € 6.300
    400mm/2.8 equal 400mm € 10.099
    total € 16.399

    Lumix GH5 - 20 Mpixel
    body € 1.750
    200mm + 1.4x equal 400mm/560mm € 2.999
    total € 4.749

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  23. #73
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    Panasonic G9 and 200/2.8 test image

    I had a fun morning today. Park Cameras were hosting a day with Panasonic at their London shop so I popped down to check out the G9 and the 200/2.8.

    Firstly, the G9. I really like the feel of the camera. I thought I wouldn't because I am not a great fan of big grips but it fits really nicely in my average sized hands. I've always felt the GH5 has stretched my hand but the G9 does not. I think it is because the width of the camera body itself is thinner. I was able to compare in weight the G9 and GH5 both with the 12-60 lens on them and it surprising how much lighter the G9 feels - even though it is only 100g lighter. It feels less dense - I feel I can hammer in nails with the GH5. The G9 actually more reminds me of my GH2 (if anyone can remember that body). I thought I would not like the twin metering/shooting mode dial on the left but it is soon forgotten. The only thing I miss is the additional function button behind the three top plate buttons which is not on the G9. The Panasonic rep fully understood my point that the placing of the playback button on the left of the body (it is on the right near your thumb on the GX8) is not very useful.

    There are some things with the G9 I was not aware of (or just did not take in) but the most convenient is a button on the front of the body you can use to 'punch-in' focus, even in AF, to magnify the focus point. The rep also showed how the firmware allows you to step through the 'pre-burst' - which operates in RAW - to take out the frames you want.

    It is clear that Panasonic have put a lot of thought into this camera. I know all manufacturers say the same but I can really believe it having played with the camera. The GH5 feels like a top quality pro body like a D5. The G9 feels more like a prosumer body like the D850. That is not a criticism. I think it is just the fact that it is not the same solid lump as the GH5 - and from my point of view that is a distinct benefit as I search for the ultimate light high performance camera for bird photography.

    At present I do not tend to take the GH5 with me when I do urban photography. It is is too heavy. But I am fairly sure I would not feel the same way about the G9.

    I can't honestly say I noticed that the viewfinder or back screen were better than the GH5 but I have been a convert to EVFs since my GH2. In fact, for me, the OVF is dead. Except for a film camera, I'll never own a digital camera again that does not have an EVF. Looking back on the experience, though the fact that the EVF made no impression on me is probably a good thing because in effect I was immediately comfortable with it and it was so high quality I did not even think twice about using the viewfinder.

    Having probably hooked me on the camera the rep then reeled me in with the Leica 200/2.8, which she claimed was only one of 3 in the country(!). This is a fine looking optic. It is a very nice size - pretty much the same as 100-400 when closed up. It feels good on the camera. I used it with and without the 1.4x converter. From what I was able to see of the results the IQ was identical even with the teleconverter.

    I was allowed to take the combination out into the street to do some test shots with my own card - which was very kind. The rep was happy for me to share the result but with the proviso that I make it clear that both the camera and lens are on their pre-launch firmware and not final. LR does not yet support the raw format of the camera so the sample below is a jpeg straight out of the camera using the 1.4 converter. The subject was about 15-20 feet from me. You can click through to the full sized jpeg. If there is anything wrong with the photo - it is me and not the camera/lens.

    Bottom line, I am now considerably poorer. I caved and pre-ordered both the body and the 200/2.8. I am not a man of infinite means so I have to sell various bits of kit to pay for it (although I will keep the GH5 until I get the G9 and then sell it). According to the store the lens will be available in December but I will have to wait until the end of January for the G9.

    iso800 280mm f4.0 1/400 - Aperture priority mode, spot metering. - check out the tiny hairs on the top of his ear and the scales on the skin between the fingers of the hand holding the phone.

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  24. #74
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    LouisB,

    many thanks for your thoughts and feelings about that G9. I am fully with you that digital cameras without EVF are meanwhile a no go for me. And here comes one of the biggest concerns I have in the moment as the EVF of my EM1.2, while great, is for sure not up to the EVFs of the G9 and GH5. While for some this is no concern, for me it is - and actually a big one.

    Second, the meanwhile available Panasonic Leica DG lens lineup matches my preferred focal length and zooms better than the Olympus Pro lineup. I would not even start to compare IQ of both lineups, as I am confident they are both pretty equal, but bottom line for me is that currently the PanaLeica DG lineup is suiting my needs better, especially with the new 2.8/300 and the upcoming 50-200 lenses. And the 100-400 and 12-60 are very tempting, especially in combination with a G9 body! Also the Nocticron is more to my taste than the Olympus 1.2/45, especially as it has a dedicated aperture ring, same for the Leica DG 15. Unfortunately Panasonic and Leica are not fully compatible with all features and possibilities WRT AF and Dual IS - which is a shame. I would love to be able to use my Olympus Pro 4/300 similar way on a Panasonic G9 body as on the Olympus Em1.2.

    So hard times for me here - I am still not up for switching systems completely again, but pretty close. At least for me Panasonic has really hit the sweet spot this time making hard to resisting this camera. And I do not want to start again with 2 systems, although both would be m43 ....

    All the best

    Peter

  25. #75
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    new 2.8/300 ?
    With best regards, K-H.

  26. #76
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Peter

    I fully understand where you are coming from. Although I do own the Olympus 7-14/2.8 I have consistently purchased Lumix lenses to go with my Panasonic cameras entirely for the sake of compatibility.

    I bought the 7-14/2.8 before the 8-18 was announced but were I to make the purchase decision today I would go with the 8-18 for complete compatibility, even though I suspect that the 7-14 is a superior lens. I am even feeling some pressure to consider trading in the 7-14 against the 8-18 for the sake of compatibilty.

    Now, it is a shame that within the m43rds ecosystem incompatibilities exist because really they shouldn't. The Oly 12-100 makes far more sense as a travel lens that the Leica 12-60. The 200/2.8 might be a more versatile lens than the 300/4 for some people. The Nokton, as you say, is a very special lens as is the Lumix 12/1.4. The Pro Olympus lenses are very high quality products and in some areas offer better performance than the Lumix ones. And then it is very exiciting that Simga are beginning to produce lens for m43rds (let alone the existing Voigtlander and Laowa offerings).

    The bodies really should be irrelevant, except for format, ergonomics, additional software features. But the body lens interraction should be identical.

    If Panasonic really do listen to their users I hope that at some point they will work with Oly (and others) to bring much more closer compatibility. I know from my own marketing experience in joint ventures that this often leads to an expansion in sales for both companies.

    LouisB
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  27. #77
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Peter

    I fully understand where you are coming from. Although I do own the Olympus 7-14/2.8 I have consistently purchased Lumix lenses to go with my Panasonic cameras entirely for the sake of compatibility.

    I bought the 7-14/2.8 before the 8-18 was announced but were I to make the purchase decision today I would go with the 8-18 for complete compatibility, even though I suspect that the 7-14 is a superior lens. I am even feeling some pressure to consider trading in the 7-14 against the 8-18 for the sake of compatibilty.

    Now, it is a shame that within the m43rds ecosystem incompatibilities exist because really they shouldn't. The Oly 12-100 makes far more sense as a travel lens that the Leica 12-60. The 200/2.8 might be a more versatile lens than the 300/4 for some people. The Nokton, as you say, is a very special lens as is the Lumix 12/1.4. The Pro Olympus lenses are very high quality products and in some areas offer better performance than the Lumix ones. And then it is very exiciting that Simga are beginning to produce lens for m43rds (let alone the existing Voigtlander and Laowa offerings).

    The bodies really should be irrelevant, except for format, ergonomics, additional software features. But the body lens interraction should be identical.

    If Panasonic really do listen to their users I hope that at some point they will work with Oly (and others) to bring much more closer compatibility. I know from my own marketing experience in joint ventures that this often leads to an expansion in sales for both companies.

    LouisB
    Interesting viewpoints. I too mostly prefer Panasonic lenses on my Panasonic cameras, but mostly because I like how they render better than the Olympus lenses. Still, the Zuiko 75mm (and Samyang 50mm f/1.2) will from now on take the place of the Panasonic 35-100mm which I sell.

    With regards to the Zuiko 12-100mm:
    A friend of mine, who was an Olympus user for years, is now buying his second G85 with PL 12-60mm (his son stole the first one and refuses to give it back ). There are several reason for this:

    - The E-M1 II is the only Olympus that offers a grip for "real hands" like the one on the G85, and the Panasonic is half the price.
    - The 12-60mm is much lighter, much smaller and much cheaper than the Zuiko 12-100mm, and it's a stop faster at the short end.

    Instead of paying $3,500 for 1,135 gram of camera, he pays $2,000 for 825 gram, and for his kind of photography, the shorter reach is not a problem.

    http://camerasize.com/compact/#692.613,689.625,ha,t

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    To further whet your appetite: Panasonic G9 Review | Photographyblog
    Bart ...
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    And another - to plant the seed of 'Should I, Shouldn't I?'

    https://www.ephotozine.com/article/p...t-review-31614
    Ian.

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by Elderly View Post
    And another - to plant the seed of 'Should I, Shouldn't I?'

    https://www.ephotozine.com/article/p...t-review-31614
    The reviewer forgot to write where in my bank account I can find the necessary monies to buy that thing

    Jokes aside; I don't need to read tests to know that this is the camera I want. If the image quality is as good as or better than that of the GH5, it must be a great camera. I have rarely seen a mirrorless camera that to such a degree looks like a tool designed by and for photographers rather than a fashion accessory.

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    I don't know if this one has been posted before, but the 10 minutes video on the cameralabs page gives a very useful rundown of the camera's features.

    https://www.cameralabs.com/panasonic-lumix-g9-review/

    The G9 seems to be one of the most complete cameras around, and for someone like me, with 8 m4/3 mount lenses, most of them Panasonic, it's really a no-brainer if I'm going to continue doing serious photography.
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 12th December 2017 at 03:07.

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I don't know if this one has been posted before, but the 10 minutes video on the cameralabs page gives a very useful rundown of the camera's features.

    https://www.cameralabs.com/panasonic-lumix-g9-review/

    The G9 seems to be one of the most complete cameras around, and for someone like me, with 8 m4/3 mount lenses, most of the Panasonic, it's really a no-brainer if I'm going to continue doing serious photography.
    Despite the fact that I don't like Gordon Laing because of his way to present, this is an impressive camera. Would I not be invested heavily in Olympus m43 I would take the G9 today instead in a heartbeat.

    For you with much more alignment to Panasonic anyway this camera should be a no-brainer. And further I think you can call it a day for a long while, as you most probably will not need another camera for many years to come!

    If I would be you I would buy it asap and try to get rid of most things photographic which you do not need any longer - I started doing that some time ago when I switched completely to m43 (Olympus) and I could not be much happier
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Peter

    I fully understand where you are coming from. Although I do own the Olympus 7-14/2.8 I have consistently purchased Lumix lenses to go with my Panasonic cameras entirely for the sake of compatibility.

    I bought the 7-14/2.8 before the 8-18 was announced but were I to make the purchase decision today I would go with the 8-18 for complete compatibility, even though I suspect that the 7-14 is a superior lens. I am even feeling some pressure to consider trading in the 7-14 against the 8-18 for the sake of compatibilty.

    Now, it is a shame that within the m43rds ecosystem incompatibilities exist because really they shouldn't. The Oly 12-100 makes far more sense as a travel lens that the Leica 12-60. The 200/2.8 might be a more versatile lens than the 300/4 for some people. The Nokton, as you say, is a very special lens as is the Lumix 12/1.4. The Pro Olympus lenses are very high quality products and in some areas offer better performance than the Lumix ones. And then it is very exiciting that Simga are beginning to produce lens for m43rds (let alone the existing Voigtlander and Laowa offerings).

    The bodies really should be irrelevant, except for format, ergonomics, additional software features. But the body lens interraction should be identical.

    If Panasonic really do listen to their users I hope that at some point they will work with Oly (and others) to bring much more closer compatibility. I know from my own marketing experience in joint ventures that this often leads to an expansion in sales for both companies.

    LouisB
    I agree 100% on that greater compatibility between bodies should happen more than it does. I thought that was the point of having the 4/3 Consortium when I bought into the system originally back in 2008. I, like many of you stated, found that often lens choices are determined on which body you own which sucked in a lot of ways because there were a few Olympus lenses I wanted on my Panasonic. It seems some things have improved from where they were in the early days because I often had to check the compatibility list prior to lens purchase back then. You almost need to have a high end Olympus and Panasonic body to get the beat of both worlds.
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    @ Jorgen,

    you could also add this lens to the G9, which would make definitely for a great and perfect telephoto combo - see another review of that Gordon I don't like ....

    https://www.cameralabs.com/panasonic...-es200-review/

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I agree 100% on that greater compatibility between bodies should happen more than it does. I thought that was the point of having the 4/3 Consortium when I bought into the system originally back in 2008. I, like many of you stated, found that often lens choices are determined on which body you own which sucked in a lot of ways because there were a few Olympus lenses I wanted on my Panasonic. It seems some things have improved from where they were in the early days because I often had to check the compatibility list prior to lens purchase back then. You almost need to have a high end Olympus and Panasonic body to get the beat of both worlds.
    I've never understood the incompatibility issues some people seem to have with the m4/3 system. Apart from lack of dual IS between the systems, which only applies to two Zuiko lenses with Panasonic bodies anyway, since only the 300mm and the very recent 12-100mm have IS, my experience is that lenses work well across the two brands. My most used lens on my many Panasonic bodies has always been the Zuiko 75mm and when I had the E-M1, the most used lens with that body was the PL 14-50mm in 4/3 mount with a Panasonic adapter. I've heard that there are som fringing issues with the Panasonic 7-14mm on Olympus bodies, but I've never seen the evidence. Panasonic's "shutter shock" fix works equally bad with some of the Panasonic lenses as with those from Olympus.

    I have much more compatibility issues with Nikkor lenses on Nikon bodies, with older lenses that won't meter and/or AF on cheaper bodies, the 58mm that won't work well on my F6 and the newest E-lenses that won't stop down on any older body. Still, I don't see much reason to complain. I use what works, and with m4/3, most things work. Dual IS. No problem with that on Nikon cameras. Doesn't exist

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    @ Jorgen,

    you could also add this lens to the G9, which would make definitely for a great and perfect telephoto combo - see another review of that Gordon I don't like ....

    https://www.cameralabs.com/panasonic...-es200-review/
    What a splendid idea! I just need to find that stash of money that I hid away somewhere... if i could only remember where it was

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I've never understood the incompatibility issues some people seem to have with the m4/3 system. Apart from lack of dual IS between the systems, which only applies to two Zuiko lenses with Panasonic bodies anyway, since only the 300mm and the very recent 12-100mm have IS, my experience is that lenses work well across the two brands. My most used lens on my many Panasonic bodies has always been the Zuiko 75mm and when I had the E-M1, the most used lens with that body was the PL 14-50mm in 4/3 mount with a Panasonic adapter. I've heard that there are som fringing issues with the Panasonic 7-14mm on Olympus bodies, but I've never seen the evidence. Panasonic's "shutter shock" fix works equally bad with some of the Panasonic lenses as with those from Olympus.

    I have much more compatibility issues with Nikkor lenses on Nikon bodies, with older lenses that won't meter and/or AF on cheaper bodies, the 58mm that won't work well on my F6 and the newest E-lenses that won't stop down on any older body. Still, I don't see much reason to complain. I use what works, and with m4/3, most things work. Dual IS. No problem with that on Nikon cameras. Doesn't exist
    Maybe itís different now with the newer cameras but early on performance wasnít the same speed wise using Olympus lenses on Panasonic bodies.

    The early Olympus bodies were terrible (IMO) and they didnít really get closer in performance to Panasonic levels until the EP3 (IMO). I still have my G1 but I also had a GH2 and a GF1 with some of the Panasonic Leica lenses (45 macro and 25 Summilux) and the Panasonic zooms along with the excellent 20/1.7 pancake lens. I tried quite a few Olympus lenses on my Panasonic bodies and the lenses would hunt on Panasonic bodies but would be snappy to focus on Olympus bodies by comparisons.

    This is why I (and I assume some others) started ignoring the lenses from the opposite brand altogether in time when I used the system regularly. Now the G1 (and itís not cutting edge today by any means) just sits on the shelf but I look at pics that Iíve taken with it and the kit lens today and am still happy with the output. Iím out the Micro 4/3 game now and havenít bought a lens for it in many years but I still like what theyíre doing overall and itís the system I point most people to more often than not when they want to get into a compact interchangeable lens mirrorless system that wonít break the budget.
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Maybe itís different now with the newer cameras but early on performance wasnít the same speed wise using Olympus lenses on Panasonic bodies.

    The early Olympus bodies were terrible (IMO) and they didnít really get closer in performance to Panasonic levels until the EP3 (IMO). I still have my G1 but I also had a GH2 and a GF1 with some of the Panasonic Leica lenses (45 macro and 25 Summilux) and the Panasonic zooms along with the excellent 20/1.7 pancake lens. I tried quite a few Olympus lenses on my Panasonic bodies and the lenses would hunt on Panasonic bodies but would be snappy to focus on Olympus bodies by comparisons.

    This is why I (and I assume some others) started ignoring the lenses from the opposite brand altogether in time when I used the system regularly. Now the G1 (and itís not cutting edge today by any means) just sits on the shelf but I look at pics that Iíve taken with it and the kit lens today and am still happy with the output. Iím out the Micro 4/3 game now and havenít bought a lens for it in many years but I still like what theyíre doing overall and itís the system I point most people to more often than not when they want to get into a compact interchangeable lens mirrorless system that wonít break the budget.
    The camera bodies are certainly much better now than they were back then, and whatever differences there were have diminished radically, with the exception of the E-M1/II that offers PD AF, making it much better suited for 4/3 lenses than the other bodies.

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Tre, you can add Panasonic's DFD to the growing list of incompatibilities.
    Also for FT lenses, depending on PDAF, OM-D E-M1 E-M1.2 are the only options.
    The E-M1.2 being far superior.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Tre, you can add Panasonic's DFD to the growing list of incompatibilities.
    Also for FT lenses, depending on PDAF, OM-D E-M1 E-M1.2 are the only options.
    The E-M1.2 being far superior.
    Yeah I thought about DFD as well after I posted but then itís sort of beating a dead horse that manufacturers build in a little something extra to ensure best performance is with the bodies they manufacture but this makes sense for a variety of obvious reasons. Itís good on some level that multiple companies are competing internally within 4/3 Consortium and many of the differences will only matter to the more advanced user. If youíre the customer thatíll leave the camera in ďauto modeĒ exclusively then the issues being raised likely wonít matter in reality.

    In any case the G9 is looking good and the GH5 has gotten rave reviews for obvious reasons. Olympus has world class IBIS for sure as well.
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Thanks Tre.

    I remember an interview with some Olympus execs pointing out there were no technical issues with making dual image stabilization work for both Panasonic and Olympus lenses on the other maker's cameras. They also doubted that such an agreement would ever be pursued. Fair enough.

    Same with DFD. Panasonic could presumably profile Olympus lenses so that those would work with DFD on Panasonic cameras, naively I think that. However, I doubt they ever will. If they did I might get such a camera to explore my Olympus MFT lenses.

    PDAF seems to be supported only by OM-D E-M1 and E-M1.2 so far. So for those FT lenses one has no choice but to use a camera that supports that in order to have a beneficial experience. Indeed the E-M1.2 works great with the Olympus SHG lenses 150/2, 90-250/2.8, and 300/2.8, including EC-14 and EC-20 teleconverters.

    The only PL lens that I have is the Nocticron 42.5/1.2. It's a fine lens on my OM-D cameras. Aperture has to be set in camera as the mechanical aperture ring only works on Panasonic cameras. No biggie.

    So by and large I treat Panasonic and Olympus as two different systems, MFT or not doesn't seem to matter.

    I hope that Olympus comes out soon with an E-M1 like camera catching up or improving on the features of the Sony A9 camera, especially the improved sensor scan time. Very interesting is also how long it will take Panasonic to produce a stills camera with their new organic sensor and global shutter technology.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Interesting viewpoints. I too mostly prefer Panasonic lenses on my
    With regards to the Zuiko 12-100mm:
    A friend of mine, who was an Olympus user for years, is now buying his second G85 with PL 12-60mm (his son stole the first one and refuses to give it back ). There are several reason for this:

    - The E-M1 II is the only Olympus that offers a grip for "real hands" like the one on the G85, and the Panasonic is half the price.
    - The 12-60mm is much lighter, much smaller and much cheaper than the Zuiko 12-100mm, and it's a stop faster at the short end.
    Whoa!
    The two Pana 12-60s might be confused here, for the faster one (2.8-4) isn't the highlighted assertion, but to quote another's post elsewhere ...
    The 12-60 Leica will most likely be stellar, but at that price point, the Oly 12-100 f/4 would be a very tempting alternative.
    Lighter, yes, but then less reach; smaller, not so much; nor cheaper much.
    And to my awareness, it is the slower one that seems rather *kit* with the G8/G80/G85.

    -d.

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by drofnad View Post
    Whoa!
    The two Pana 12-60s might be confused here, for the faster one (2.8-4) isn't the highlighted assertion, but to quote another's post elsewhere ...

    Lighter, yes, but then less reach; smaller, not so much; nor cheaper much.
    And to my awareness, it is the slower one that seems rather *kit* with the G8/G80/G85.

    -d.
    The Zuiko 12-100 is around 50% more expensive (in this country) and nearly twice as heavy as the PL 12-60. It's around three times as expensive as the cheaper Panasonic. Different lenses for different needs and economy. That's something one will find with any brand.

    As for DFD, it's not an incompatibility, it's an added feature on some bodies, the same way as PD AF is on the E-M1. All Nikon, Canon or Sony cameras don't share the same AF capabilities either. It's normal for cameras to be different within one system.

    When Nikon launched the D7500, it was critisised by many for not having all the features that the D7200 has. Same thing. Different camera for different photographer with different needs. I for sure would have liked the Panasonic cameras, particularly the G9, to offer PD AF to use 4/3 lenses. But they don't. Still I prefer the G9 to the E-M1 (without even having tried it!), so it's a compromise I have to make, and when it comes to that particular camera, I think it's more or less the only compromise.

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    I have the G9 on order, I did also order the 200/2.8 but I have to admit I have cancelled that for the moment (I still think the Oly 300/4 would probably be the better lens).

    If the G9 had arrived earlier I would not have bought the GH5 which I will now have to sell and take a 'bath' on. All aspects of the G9 are better suited for my use - which is bird photography.

    I am not in a hurry to sell my GX8. For urban work I still prefer its size and compact form factor.

    One thing which is irritating me a lot about the G9 reviews are the ones about its video capabilities. Get over it! It is not a video-centric camera. It is made for people like me who probably never even use video and like me actually turn-off the video button so it is not accidentally engaged. I seem to see loads of you tube reviews and tests of the video on the G9. Sheesh! Get a GH5!

    OK, rant over.

    LouisB

    PS The only thing that would woo me away from Panasonic at present is the rumoured Nikon mirrorless. Can you imagine being able to put all that glass on a Nikon mirrorless body? Nikon must be mad to be so slow not to introduce one.
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post

    One thing which is irritating me a lot about the G9 reviews are the ones about its video capabilities. Get over it! It is not a video-centric camera. It is made for people like me who probably never even use video and like me actually turn-off the video button so it is not accidentally engaged. I seem to see loads of you tube reviews and tests of the video on the G9. Sheesh! Get a GH5!

    OK, rant over.

    LouisB
    That is what happens when you become famous for something and try to do something else.

    My GX8 will most probably go. The GM5 is doing very well for street and casual photography. The question for me is if the G9 will also replace the D610 that I just bought. The advantage of the Nikon is its extremely robust files that can be manipulated a lot before there's visible noise. In every other way however, I expect the G9 to be a vastly superior camera, so much so that I may end up buying two somewhere down the road.

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Jorgen

    The thing which sells the G9 to me is the 20fps - as well as the better viewfinder.

    I've achieved some amazing results with birds-in-flight with the GH5 and it is a fantastic camera, no doubt. But the G9 is even lighter and easier to hold. You probably find this with your motorsport work but having to hold a camera for long times to get that special moment, you need all the help you can get in the weight department. Even an extra 100g is worth it.

    The only thing I did not like about the G9 was the loss of the additional function button behind the trio of button controls on the top. This has gone because of the LDC display. I'm hoping the video button can be programmed to review photographs (which again is necessary in bird photography just to see if you have got the shot and it is in focus).

    With my architectural stuff, the GX8 is fine and I often do not even review the shots too much because I know I on focus when I am taking the slab side of a building.

    LouisB

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    A lot of great reviews out on the G9 meanwhile

    https://www.43rumors.com/new-panasonic-g9-tests/

    especially this one with lots of information

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=7BflxbcTWEo

    This camera and with it the whole Panasonic m43 system is becoming suddenly very attractive for me

    Actually on paper it ticks all the boxes for me
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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    A lot of great reviews out on the G9 meanwhile

    https://www.43rumors.com/new-panasonic-g9-tests/

    especially this one with lots of information

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=7BflxbcTWEo

    This camera and with it the whole Panasonic m43 system is becoming suddenly very attractive for me

    Actually on paper it ticks all the boxes for me
    Thanks for posting this. That very British lady must sell a lot of cameras. I guess I just have to dig out some monies from that secret place... somewhere

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    Re: Panasonic G9

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Thanks for posting this. That very British lady must sell a lot of cameras. I guess I just have to dig out some monies from that secret place... somewhere
    That lady is really great and she sells with her heart

    Need to find some money as well

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