GX8 shutter shock

[ptomsu]

I meanwhile have decided to go fully m43 already some months ago. There are many reasons, one of the major for me is size of lenses. I do love my Olympus 2.8/40-150 PRO and there is nothing like that in FF nor in any other system so far - that would equal a 2.8/80-300 in FF - I think there will never be such a lens as small while I live.

Other reasons are advanced IBIS and Dual IS in both Panasonic and Olympus ecosystems - other vendors are just lightyears ahead of such effective implementations.

For me to go back to FF would mean that there would come something really revolutionary and I could not see anything like that - especially when considering that such revolutionary technologies and ideas would then also come into the m43 world.

 

[k-hawinkler]

For me to go back to FF would mean that there would come something really revolutionary and I could not see anything like that - especially when considering that such revolutionary technologies and ideas would then also come into the m43 world.

I sure hope you are right with the last part of your sentence. Right now my best mirrorless camera is the Sony A9, followed by the Olympus E-M1 Mark II.

The latter one, the E-M1.2 has considerable catching up to do in terms of electronic sensor scan/readout time.

Also, while I feel comfortable using the E-M1.2 with ISO values in the high hundreds to low thousands, I feel equally comfortable to use the A9 up to ISO 25,600.

The Olympus combination of E-M1.2, 300/4 Pro, and MC-14 TC is a remarkable light-weight and optically stellar achievement. The Sony combination of A9, 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM OSS lens, and 1.4x and 2x TCs IMHO is similarly light-weight and optically brilliant, especially considering the astounding high ISO performance of the A9.

So in terms of 135 film equivalent FOV, the Olympus system gets to 840/5.6, while the Sony system gets to 800/11.

Of course, one can also use the heavy FT 300/2.8 lens with TCs on the E-M1.2. Sony has announced for 2018 a 400/2.8 lens, I am sure heavy and expensive. With TCs that gets to 560/4 and 800/5.6 with a roughly 4x larger sensor surface collecting photons and reducing noise.

I should receive later this week the Olympus 25/1.2 lens. In 135 film terms that lens has an equivalent 50mm FOV and equivalent f/2.4 DOF. The closest I own in native FE AF lenses is the Zony (Zeiss/Sony) 55/1.8 lens that delivers sharp images as well. Then I own the native FE MF Mitakon 50/0.95 lens, capable of shallow DOF.

In many ways I consider the Olympus MFT and Sony FF systems complementary and don't intend to give up either one, instead will add to both.

 

[Vivek]

That follows K-H post and was in that context. Read and try to comprehend.

So who decides what is the best? The best for him might be something totally different than the best for you.

It all depends on your individual needs. I could argue also Medium Format is the best. So why do we not all shoot Medium Format only?

 

[ptomsu]

I sure hope you are right with the last part of your sentence. Right now my best mirrorless camera is the Sony A9, followed by the Olympus E-M1 Mark II.

The latter one, the E-M1.2 has considerable catching up to do in terms of electronic sensor scan/readout time.

Also, while I feel comfortable using the E-M1.2 with ISO values in the high hundreds to low thousands, I feel equally comfortable to use the A9 up to ISO 25,600.

The Olympus combination of E-M1.2, 300/4 Pro, and MC-14 TC is a remarkable light-weight and optically stellar achievement. The Sony combination of A9, 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM OSS lens, and 1.4x and 2x TCs IMHO is similarly light-weight and optically brilliant, especially considering the astounding high ISO performance of the A9.

So in terms of 135 film equivalent FOV, the Olympus system gets to 840/5.6, while the Sony system gets to 800/11.

Of course, one can also use the heavy FT 300/2.8 lens with TCs on the E-M1.2. Sony has announced for 2018 a 400/2.8 lens, I am sure heavy and expensive. With TCs that gets to 560/4 and 800/5.6 with a roughly 4x larger sensor surface collecting photons and reducing noise.

I should receive later this week the Olympus 25/1.2 lens. In 135 film terms that lens has an equivalent 50mm FOV and equivalent f/2.4 DOF. The closest I own in native FE AF lenses is the Zony (Zeiss/Sony) 55/1.8 lens that delivers sharp images as well. Then I own the native FE MF Mitakon 50/0.95 lens, capable of shallow DOF.

In many ways I consider the Olympus MFT and Sony FF systems complementary and don't intend to give up either one, instead will add to both.

I hear you and Sony (A9 or A7rII) would be most likely the FF cameras I would add to my m43 setup. While the 100-400G is for sure a stellar lens, I would not shoot it with a 2.0 TC as IQ definitely is going to suffer - I do not even have to test this - have been through so many stellar TCs in my whole life :banghead:

Anyway - I just shot an event this weekend and it was indoors and also with ISO6400 with the EM1.2 and the 2.8/40-150 and high ISO performance when developing in C1Pro is already more than good enough for me .... but maybe if I would get really picky then I could argue me into a Sony FF camera right now as well.

Not saying you are doing anything wrong, but for me I made the decision that for now m43 is just the only system I really need.

 

[ptomsu]

Some high ISO samples from the last weekend's Gospel concert with the Longfield Gospel Singers at Stadtpfarrkirche Stockerau (organised by the Lions Club I am in) - all EM1.2 with 2.8/12-40 and developed in LR Classic CC - in C1Pro it would still be a notch better.

Just to prove how well this system can handle high ISO .... and actually with the 2.8 PRO lenses there is no need for going higher than 6400 - although there is little difference up till ISO 10000 )

The first 2 taken with ISO 5000

2017-12-03_0193.jpg by ptomsu, on Flickr

2017-12-03_0195.jpg by ptomsu, on Flickr

the next 2 with ISO 6400

2017-12-03_0196.jpg by ptomsu, on Flickr

2017-12-03_0198.jpg by ptomsu, on Flickr

 

[Knorp]

consider me lost ... :banghead:

 

[ptomsu]

consider me lost ... :banghead:

Well, this was for sure OT in this thread, so we will stop here. Nevertheless it shows the capabilities of modern m43 gear as long as it is properly used and properly functioning

Back to initial topic then - well even if it gets boring

 

[Vivek]

You need a wider lens.

 

[Knorp]

Well, this was for sure OT in this thread, so we will stop here. Nevertheless it shows the capabilities of modern m43 gear as long as it is properly used and properly functioning

Back to initial topic then - well even if it gets boring

No problem, Peter. Actually I found it quite funny, one moment we're discussing the Gloom and Doom of shutter shock and the next moment we 'hear' a choir singing "Hallelujah" ...
But perhaps my imagination is running wild ...

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Shutter shock is luckilly limited to a small number of m4/3 bodies, and doesn't take away much from the system as a whole. What makes it particularly annoying with the GX8 are two facts:

- The GX8 was until the G9 Panasonic's top model for stills photography
- The image quality that comes out of that camera when there are no shutter shock problems and with top lenses are sometimes beyond belief

The obvious choice for me would be the G9, which delivers even more in all areas. Unfortuntely, it's bigger and more expensive too. As for Sony and other alternatives, I haven't seen any super sharp 70-200mm weighing in at 350g for that system yet, or anything else that can compete with the compactness and user friendliness of the m4/3 system. I'm in Singapore now, travelling light. My camera is the GM5 with a 14-42mm and the 35-100mm f/4-5.6. I believe the total weight of it all is less than 500g, including 3 batteries, and except for the batteries it's all compatible with all other m4/3 equipment.

 

[k-hawinkler]

While the 100-400G is for sure a stellar lens, I would not shoot it with a 2.0 TC as IQ definitely is going to suffer - I do not even have to test this - have been through so many stellar TCs in my whole life :banghead:

Well, a TC just magnifies the image, it sure can't improve the image. The Sony 1.4x TC seems generally well regarded with the FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 GM OSS lens. As I have made excellent experiences with the Leica APO-Extender-R 1.4x, 2x, and the Olympus FT EC-14, EC-20, why not try the Sony FE 1.4x and 2x TCs. Here are some images taken with the

Sony ILCE-9 + 2X Teleconverter + FE 100-400mm F4.5-5.6 GM OSS Lens

In terms of IQ these images seem acceptable, no? :facesmack:

 

[biglouis]

I went from Sony FF to m43rds.

I know it seems improbable. The main reason was that after buying my third mediocre Sony lens I just did not want to chance buying another.

All my m43rds lenses have been stellar.

Yes, of course the m43rds sensorhas a poorer s/n ratio than the Sony at higher isos but at least I'm not disappointed with the lens performance.

That's my experience: yours might be different, but it was enough to prompt me to change systems.

LouisB

 

[Vivek]

Excellent point Louis! :clap:

 

[k-hawinkler]

I went from Sony FF to m43rds.

I know it seems improbable. The main reason was that after buying my third mediocre Sony lens I just did not want to chance buying another.

All my m43rds lenses have been stellar.

Yes, of course the m43rds sensorhas a poorer s/n ratio than the Sony at higher isos but at least I'm not disappointed with the lens performance.

That's my experience: yours might be different, but it was enough to prompt me to change systems.

LouisB

Thanks Louis, understood. I shoot Olympus MFT cameras with MFT and FT lenses next to Sony FF and APS-C gear and find the different systems quite complementary.

I own an excellent set of MFT/FT lenses from 7mm (135 film equivalent of 14mm) to 300mm (600mm) and 1.4x and 2x teleconverters. Olympus' IBIS was the feature that originally attracted me to MFT gear. The E-M1 Mark II keeps me there, as it finally has a mirrorless camera without focus hunting issues to speak of, but still major rolling electronic shutter artifacts.

The ability to shoot adapted Leica FF M and R lenses in their native focus length FOV and DOF brought me to Sony FF mirrorless cameras. The Sony A9 is currently the only mirrorless camera without significant focus hunting or rolling electronic shutter issues. It also lets me shoot adapted FF manual focus only lenses in autofocus mode with Eye-AF and IBIS support. True, Sony has its share of manufacturing variability lens issues. Nevertheless I have managed to acquire an outstanding set of FF native lenses from 10mm to 400mm, including quite capable 1.4x and 2x teleconverters.

In retirement I enjoy using both systems and will continue to do so.

 

[Knorp]

In terms of IQ these images seem acceptable, no? :facesmack:

shockingly acceptable ... :thumbs:

 

[biglouis]

The ability to shoot adapted Leica FF M and R lenses in their native focus length FOV and DOF brought me to Sony FF mirrorless cameras.
In retirement I enjoy using both systems and will continue to do so.

This is an excellent point. I shot my A7 and A7R with both a 35 Summicron and the gorgeous little 40 Summicron. And you are right - the results were excellent. I then dumbly sold my 'crons to purchase Sony/Zeiss glass as it became available and the slide began...

If I ever went back to Sony (for some bizarre reason), I'd do the same as you.

LouisB

 

[Vivek]

My mediocre Sony lens line up is limited to (fine samples) 28/2, 35/2.8 and 55/1.8. Rest are adapted lenses.

My experience with their zoomz (blue labelled ones, in particular) mirrors yours.

This is an excellent point. I shot my A7 and A7R with both a 35 Summicron and the gorgeous little 40 Summicron. And you are right - the results were excellent. I then dumbly sold my 'crons to purchase Sony/Zeiss glass as it became available and the slide began...

If I ever went back to Sony (for some bizarre reason), I'd do the same as you.

LouisB

 

[4711]

Hi Jorgen,

what did you decide to do? Will you replace your GX8 with another Panasonic body or another brand or did you fix the problem?

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Hi Jorgen,

what did you decide to do? Will you replace your GX8 with another Panasonic body or another brand or did you fix the problem?

I'm not sure yet. I'll most likely stay with Panasonic. I have mostly Panasonic lenses and I like the ergonomics of their cameras. Then there are three alternatives:

- Buy the GX85 for travel and use the GX8 for industrial and product photos.
- Buy the G85 and keep or sell the GX8.
- Buy the G9 and sell the GX8.

While the GX85 and G85 are very nice cameras, their viewfinders are not nearly as good as the one on the GX8. The G9 of course does it all plus quite a bit more, but it's a bit large and will probaby cost nearly twice as much as the G85 and nearly three times as much as the GX85.

At the moment, I'm leaning towards the G9. I'll be selling stuff that I don't need and see how much cash there is in the box when it's available. What I will not sell are the GM5 and the Nikon D610.

It must be said that despite the shutter shock problem, the GX8 is still a great camera, and if I didn't make money from selling photos, I could have lived with the situation for a while more. The ideal camera would have been a GX9, close to the specs of the G9, but with the form factor of the GX8. With the launch of the G9, I don't see that coming until at least Photokina, maybe not at all.

 

[4711]

I'm not sure yet. I'll most likely stay with Panasonic. I have mostly Panasonic lenses and I like the ergonomics of their cameras. Then there are three alternatives:

- Buy the GX85 for travel and use the GX8 for industrial and product photos.
- Buy the G85 and keep or sell the GX8.
- Buy the G9 and sell the GX8.

While the GX85 and G85 are very nice cameras, their viewfinders are not nearly as good as the one on the GX8. The G9 of course does it all plus quite a bit more, but it's a bit large and will probaby cost nearly twice as much as the G85 and nearly three times as much as the GX85.

At the moment, I'm leaning towards the G9. I'll be selling stuff that I don't need and see how much cash there is in the box when it's available. What I will not sell are the GM5 and the Nikon D610.

It must be said that despite the shutter shock problem, the GX8 is still a great camera, and if I didn't make money from selling photos, I could have lived with the situation for a while more. The ideal camera would have been a GX9, close to the specs of the G9, but with the form factor of the GX8. With the launch of the G9, I don't see that coming until at least Photokina, maybe not at all.

Did you check whether the GM5 has the same problem?

I find the 1/500s shutterspeed with the mechanical shutter limiting with the GM5. And the GM5 has an AA filter.

I use the GX85 (among others) and am totally happy. Also with the viewfinder. As soon as a GX95 will come out (maybe late 2018 or 2019) I will upgrade to that one. I just like the RF style more than the DSLR style. Better for the interaction with people. Would also love to have the new 20MP sensor.