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GH5s

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Panasonic is really charging ahead these days. Since the G9 will take care of the high end stills market, they've apparently decided to introduce a new version of the GH5 that is even more specialised towards high end video, the GH5s with a 12MP sensor and excellent high ISO plus upto 240 fps in 1080p. This looks like something similar to what Sony did with the A7s.

Although the G9 will fullfill most of my stills as well as video needs, I will at some stage consider two bodies, and a second body with better high ISO, possibly better DR and clearly better and more advanced video will be tempting. Fascinating stuff.

https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-panasonic-gh5s-shoots-240-fps-slow-motion-movies/
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I have the feeling that Panasonic are just on the right track.

I am pretty sure that all of this (G9, GH5, GH5s) and wonderful PL glass will finally pay off as being pretty fully accepted as a professional lineup for photography and video - with excellent lense topping most of the even FF competition.

At least my decision to move fully m43 seems to be right :clap::ROTFL::cool:
 

biglouis

Well-known member
Even though I am a stills photographer, for a time I did own the A7S purely for high-iso stills photography.

I was a bit surprised at how quickly I found 12mpx limiting, given that my other body was the 36mpx A7R.

I am sure this beast, if the specs are accurate, will fulfil and important place in the hearts of videographers and of course, best of luck to Panasonic because if it is a winner then we'll all benefit from their ability to expand the product line further.

It is pretty amazing to think of how far m43rds - introduced as an entry level camera system - has come. You even have pro-sports photographers getting photos from rugby matches into national newspapers, here in the UK. I certainly could never have pursued my growing interest in bird photography without the lightweight solution m43rds provides.

LouisB
 
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Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Here are the latest rumoured specs. With this level of detail, I suppose they ar pretty accurate.

Video specs:

The camera records C4K (60p, 150Mbps, 4:2:2 10 bit Long GOP)
The camera records slow motion at 240fps (FHD).
It will ship in late February for an estimated price around $2,499

Other specs:

Effective pixels: 10,280,000 pixels
Total number of pixels: 11,930,000
4/3 LiveMOS sensor, primary color filter
Digital zoom: 2x, 4x
Extra tele conversion: max 2.0x for pictures, 2.1x for motions pictures
Focus modes: AFS/AFF/AFC/MF
Auto focus mode: Face/Eye detection/Tracking/225 area focusing/Custom/1 area focusing/Pinpoint
12 fps (10 fps RAW 14 bit)
ISO: 160-51,200
Extended ISO: 80-102,400
Minimum Illumination: approx 5 lx
Mechanical shutter speed: B (max 30 min), 60 sec – 1/8,000
Electronic shutter: 1 sec – 1/16,000
Motion pictures shutter: 1/25 – 1/6,000
Metering range: EV 0 to EV 18
Exposure compensation: -5 EV to + 5 EV (1/3 EV steps)
RAW pictures: 14 bit/12 bit
MP4 (H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, ACC)
Flash sync: 1/250
Light metering system: 1728-zone multi-pattern sensing system
LCD screen: 3.2″ TFT LCD (3:2), 1,620,000 dots, touchscreen
Viewfinder: OLED (4:3), 3,680,000 dots with diopter adjustment (-4 to +3), magnifications approx: 1.52x, 0.76x
Wi-Fi: 802.11a/b/g/n/ac
Bluetooth 4.2
Battery charger: Panasonic DMW-BTC13
AC adapter: Panasonic VSK0815F
Battery: Panasonic DMW-BLF19PP
Two memory card slots
4k photos
HDMI Type A / USB 3.1
Dimensions: 138,5×98.1×87.4
Operating temperature: -10°C to 40°C (14°F to 104°F)
Stereo mic, USB 3.1, HDMI Type A, remote, TC in/out
Monaural speakers
Dust-proof and splash-proof body
SD/SDHC/SDXC memory card (double slot recording function available)
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Even though I am a stills photographer, for a time I did own the A7S purely for high-iso stills photography.

I was a bit surprised at how quickly I found 12mpx limiting, given that my other body was the 36mpx A7R.

I am sure this beast, if the specs are accurate, will fulfil and important place in the hearts of videographers and of course, best of luck to Panasonic because if it is a winner then we'll all benefit from their ability to expand the product line further.

It is pretty amazing to think of how far m43rds - introduced as an entry level camera system - has come. You even have pro-sports photographers getting photos from rugby matches into national newspapers, here in the UK. I certainly could never have pursued my growing interest in bird photography without the lightweight solution m43rds provides.

LouisB
While I agree that 10 or 12 MP can be a limitation sometimes, I do still shoot with my 12MP Nikon bodies, also for commercial purposes. The big question when it comes to the GH5s is of course what the image and video quality will look like, particularly at high ISO. Another option, if a backup to the G9 is needed, is how many will sell their GH5 to buy the GH5s. Those used GH5 bodies may be interesting as a supplement to the G9 if the price is right.
 

raist3d

Well-known member
I view this upcoming model in pretty simple terms. It's a high performance wide-iso range video camera.

I wish Panasonic hadn't ditched the GM line. And who knows when the next GX model if ever will show up. Looks like Panasonic is completely focused on the GH and variants. I understand it from the point of view of success since those models have been successful for them.

- Ricardo
 

drofnad

Member
Jorden Udvang said:
While I agree that 10 or 12 MP can be a limitation sometimes, I do still shoot with my 12MP Nikon bodies, also for commercial purposes.
HA! It was just as I'd been bragging on you and the wonderful BBBIIIGGG print you'd shot (and some seller used on his sales booth at events) with 12mpx GH2 (IIRC) --never mind D700--, your affair w/D800 began. (And I think partly in reaction to this, Olympus came out w/40mpx option, just to "show HIM!", out of spite. :mad: :D )
In some other thread, someone made a recommendation for a beginner to just get a D700 & some primes, as a good starting system; and Kit et al. responded, "Heck, nevermind beginner : that's what I'M thinking of!" (And I feel their pain.)

I view this upcoming model in pretty simple terms. It's a high performance wide-iso range video camera.

I wish Panasonic hadn't ditched the GM line. And who knows when the next GX model if ever will show up ...
- Ricardo
And for the "GX" line, there's the split personality of the robust GX8 vs. more compact GX80/GX7markII (which alas lost the 7's great gripping grip).

-d.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
HA! It was just as I'd been bragging on you and the wonderful BBBIIIGGG print you'd shot (and some seller used on his sales booth at events) with 12mpx GH2 (IIRC) --never mind D700--, your affair w/D800 began. (And I think partly in reaction to this, Olympus came out w/40mpx option, just to "show HIM!", out of spite. :mad: :D )
In some other thread, someone made a recommendation for a beginner to just get a D700 & some primes, as a good starting system; and Kit et al. responded, "Heck, nevermind beginner : that's what I'M thinking of!" (And I feel their pain.)


And for the "GX" line, there's the split personality of the robust GX8 vs. more compact GX80/GX7markII (which alas lost the 7's great gripping grip).

-d.
Ha ha... you remember that, do you? The GH2 photo is still being used, but I'm looking to replace it now. The GH2 was 16MP btw., and from a sensor point of view one of my favourite cameras, since it was oversized. The camera that comes closest for specs and ergonomics nowadays is the G85, and two of my colleagues use that. Apart from the viewfinder, which is not that great, it's the camera that makes most sense. It really has everything I need, 16MP included.

Lots of megapixels, like in the D810, is a fascinating feature. It's like ultra WA lenses and very long telephoto; you see things that the human eye doesn't normally see. For me however, it's a distraction. I try to be a story teller, and I try to catch the moment. Everything slows down when camera bodies as well as lenses approach one kilogram each.

All that detail makes me think about my sister who was nearsighted as a child. When she got her first pair of glasses, she stood staring out of the kitchen window, calling the whole family over and said "Have you seen all those trees on the hill over there?". We had of course, and being two years older than her, I had even been there, aiming to catch the fox that somebody claimed was roaming round there. I had even brought a rope for the purpose, a black silky one that I found in one of my mother's drawers.

That's where I want to be, over at that hill, rather than looking at it through a telephoto lens.

But I'm heavily off topic. Although there are sensible choices around, like the G85 and mid-range Nikon cameras (I do have a D610), I'm a camera extremist. I look for perfection in the absurd. That's why I have an F6 and an OM-3, two of the best 35mm cameras around, although at totally different ends of the scale. And I use them. When I play golf (which I don't do very often anymore), I tee off with a 2 Iron, a Mizuno blade. Even the caddies ask me sometimes why I'm not embarrased missing the tee shot so often :)

When using a camera like what the GH5s sems to become, there are no bragging rights for resolution, and although it will be better than other m4/3 bodies when it comes to high ISO, it will always trail behind a Sony A7s in that area. If you can't succeed in taking photos that are interesting with that camera, you could as well have used an old Instamatic. It will obviously be great for video, but that won't come for free either. The saturated redorangepink sunsets that come out of an iPhone X won't happen with a GH5s until after the V-log files have been through a couple of hours with some expensive editing software with a user interface that makes the cockpit of a 747 look closer to an iPad in comparison.

The reason why I sold the D700, and didn't buy another one when I bought the D610 a few months ago, was weight and size, not megapixels. The GH5s will be an extreme machine, and it will require work and knowledge. Yes, I'm genuinly interested. If I buy it, it will be a way to keep myself allert. I'm 61 now, so I need that (and more frequent visits to the gym). I'm starting an extended Christmas holiday today, 10 days in all. A major part of it, I'll spend watching photography and video making tutorials. If I retire from my day job, I want my hobby to be a meaningful activity, not something I do to make time disappear. The GH5s would be an interesting challenge to deal with. Time will show...
 

4711

Member
..... I try to be a story teller, and I try to catch the moment. Everything slows down when camera bodies as well as lenses approach one kilogram each.
.....

The reason why I sold the D700, and didn't buy another one when I bought the D610 a few months ago, was weight and size, not megapixels. ...
I sold my Nikon D800 for the same reason. I kept a few lenses just in case. But did not buy yet another DSLR body.

I have a Fuji and an MFT system and try to decide in which direction I will go. But for environmental portraits, it is hard to beat the Nikkor 85/1.8G on fullframe. The Lumix 42.5/1.7 is not able to produce this background blurr...
 

Knorp

Well-known member
I have a Fuji and an MFT system and try to decide in which direction I will go. But for environmental portraits, it is hard to beat the Nikkor 85/1.8G on fullframe. The Lumix 42.5/1.7 is not able to produce this background blurr...
Perhaps the new 45/1.2 (90/2.4) better suits your taste for background blurr.
Worth trying or at least check out the sample pictures.
 

4711

Member
Perhaps the new 45/1.2 (90/2.4) better suits your taste for background blurr.
Worth trying or at least check out the sample pictures.
I have not seen yet comparison shots for casual portraits between the Lumix 42.5/1.7 and either the Nocticron 42.5/1.2 or the Olympus 45/1.2.

Most images are just images made with one lens, or they take backgrounds which are miles away.

Did anybody find good comparison shots on the internet? Please post them.

The other issue is the size of both F1.2 lenses. They are bigger than the Fuji XF 56/1.2. This makes MFT obsolete, if an APS-C sensor type system is smaller once you need shallow DOF.

But currently the userinterface, usability, AF, IBIS, tilting and touch screen make the MFT system at least with Panasonic bodies more desireble than the current Fuji bodies.

So there is good and bad on both sides...

I looked today at a D610 of a friend. Man is this body big if you are used to a GX80/85 or Fuji body.... I forgot that already
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I have not seen yet comparison shots for casual portraits between the Lumix 42.5/1.7 and either the Nocticron 42.5/1.2 or the Olympus 45/1.2.

Most images are just images made with one lens, or they take backgrounds which are miles away.

Did anybody find good comparison shots on the internet? Please post them.

The other issue is the size of both F1.2 lenses. They are bigger than the Fuji XF 56/1.2. This makes MFT obsolete, if an APS-C sensor type system is smaller once you need shallow DOF.

But currently the userinterface, usability, AF, IBIS, tilting and touch screen make the MFT system at least with Panasonic bodies more desireble than the current Fuji bodies.

So there is good and bad on both sides...

I looked today at a D610 of a friend. Man is this body big if you are used to a GX80/85 or Fuji body.... I forgot that already
APS-C will always have an advantage when it comes to background blur, but there are really so many good lens alternatives out there, and so many factors that come into play, that it's really not possible to come up with a waterproof comparison. For "portrait length", there's always the alternative of an f/1.2 SLR lens with a good focal length reducer, and although APS-C still offers shallower DOF, the f/0.85 that one gets out of such a combination should satisfy most users.

I'm using a Samyang 50mm f/1.2 in m4/3 mount for shallow DOF portraits, a great lens in most respects, and I'm rarely, if ever, left in the dust. All photos with the GX8:

Wide open:



Wide open:



At f/2 or 2.8:



Yup, the D610 is a big piece of kit (the D750 and the D7500 feel much smaller, mostly because they are thinner), but when it comes to image quality per dollar, it's a great option.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I have not seen yet comparison shots for casual portraits between the Lumix 42.5/1.7 and either the Nocticron 42.5/1.2 or the Olympus 45/1.2.

Most images are just images made with one lens, or they take backgrounds which are miles away.

Did anybody find good comparison shots on the internet? Please post them.

The other issue is the size of both F1.2 lenses. They are bigger than the Fuji XF 56/1.2. This makes MFT obsolete, if an APS-C sensor type system is smaller once you need shallow DOF.

But currently the userinterface, usability, AF, IBIS, tilting and touch screen make the MFT system at least with Panasonic bodies more desireble than the current Fuji bodies.

So there is good and bad on both sides...

I looked today at a D610 of a friend. Man is this body big if you are used to a GX80/85 or Fuji body.... I forgot that already
Here's a pretty good comparison of the two Panasonic 42.5mm lenses, the Voigtländer and the Zuiko 45mm f/1.8. They have tested sharpness, bokeh and bokeh related to minimum focusing distance:

https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/mi...mm-vs-nocticron-42-5mm-vs-voigtlander-42-5mm/
 

4711

Member
Here's a pretty good comparison of the two Panasonic 42.5mm lenses, the Voigtländer and the Zuiko 45mm f/1.8. They have tested sharpness, bokeh and bokeh related to minimum focusing distance:

https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/mi...mm-vs-nocticron-42-5mm-vs-voigtlander-42-5mm/
Thanks for that link. Very interesting. According to this comparison, I would rather perfer the Nocticron over the Voigtlaender, because the IQ is better in the center. At the same focus distance the background blurr does not seem big enough to sacrifice sharpness in the middle for that.

Unfortunately, the reviewer chose different focus distances with the flower shots. So you can not compare the background blur really.

Does anybody has by accident images of the same shot at the same focus distance always wide open with the Samyang 50mm f/1.2 and/or Nocticron and/or Olympus 45mm/1.2?

I was thinking already about the Olympus 75/1.8 for better background blur, but the compression is different for the "look" and I also have longer distance to the model. The latter one is difficult for me because I like to talk to the models while shooting. They seem to be more relaxed then on the pictures ;)
 

4711

Member
APS-C will always have an advantage when it comes to background blur, but there are really so many good lens alternatives out there, and so many factors that come into play, that it's really not possible to come up with a waterproof comparison. For "portrait length", there's always the alternative of an f/1.2 SLR lens with a good focal length reducer, and although APS-C still offers shallower DOF, the f/0.85 that one gets out of such a combination should satisfy most users.

I'm using a Samyang 50mm f/1.2 in m4/3 mount for shallow DOF portraits, a great lens in most respects, and I'm rarely, if ever, left in the dust. All photos with the GX8:

Wide open:



Wide open:





At f/2 or 2.8:



Yup, the D610 is a big piece of kit (the D750 and the D7500 feel much smaller, mostly because they are thinner), but when it comes to image quality per dollar, it's a great option.
Do you have the ISO values for these shots? They are not in the Exif data...
 

4711

Member
APS-C will always have an advantage when it comes to background blur, but there are really so many good lens alternatives out there, and so many factors that come into play, that it's really not possible to come up with a waterproof comparison. For "portrait length", there's always the alternative of an f/1.2 SLR lens with a good focal length reducer, and although APS-C still offers shallower DOF, the f/0.85 that one gets out of such a combination should satisfy most users.

I'm using a Samyang 50mm f/1.2 in m4/3 mount for shallow DOF portraits, a great lens in most respects, and I'm rarely, if ever, left in the dust. All photos with the GX8:

....
I just bought the Samyang/Rokinon 50/1.2 and made a few snapshots with it to compare it to my small Panasonic 42.5/1.7. The good news is, that it is easy to focus manually with the GX80. Very good feeling. I like that.

The bad news is, that the Samyang is by far not as sharp wide open as my 42.5/1.7 and that the bokeh is almost identical to the 42.5/1.7, if you adjust the focus distance to get the exact same shot.

Anybody else experienced that?

Since the Lumix 42.5/1.7 is cheaper and smaller and has AF, I will probably return the Samyang.

Is there maybe a 50mm/0.95 (MFT) out there, which is good enough in image quality wide open for portraits and gives better bokeh than the Lumix 42.5/1.7 or the Oly 45/1.8?

It would be a shame to be forced to buy a FF camera just for this...
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I just bought the Samyang/Rokinon 50/1.2 and made a few snapshots with it to compare it to my small Panasonic 42.5/1.7. The good news is, that it is easy to focus manually with the GX80. Very good feeling. I like that.

The bad news is, that the Samyang is by far not as sharp wide open as my 42.5/1.7 and that the bokeh is almost identical to the 42.5/1.7, if you adjust the focus distance to get the exact same shot.

Anybody else experienced that?

Since the Lumix 42.5/1.7 is cheaper and smaller and has AF, I will probably return the Samyang.

Is there maybe a 50mm/0.95 (MFT) out there, which is good enough in image quality wide open for portraits and gives better bokeh than the Lumix 42.5/1.7 or the Oly 45/1.8?

It would be a shame to be forced to buy a FF camera just for this...
Sorry to hear that the Samyang didn't work out for you. With the modest price of that lens, there is probably some sample variation.

The only f/0.95 lens that I can think of is the Voigtländer 42.5mm, but it's relatively expensive and not really sharp wide open. However, any old 85mm f/1.4 (full frame) with a Metabones Speed Booster or the cheaper (and apparently very good) Viltrox EF-M2 will give you a 50mm f/1.0. An 85mm f/1.2 lens will become a 50mm f/0.85. The nice thing about the focal length reducers is that the good ones will make the image sharper, since they concentrate the image from the lens, rather than expanding it like a TC does.

All kinds of experiments are possible with this of course, and most users seem to have positive experiences. Since the Viltrox is only $200, I will probably buy it in EF-mount and buy OM to EF and F to EF to start experimenting with my existing lenses. I'm particularly interested in what I can achieve with the tiny OM-Zuiko 85mm f/2 and the (not so tiny) Samyang 135mm f/2.

When that is said, I do actually own a full frame camera, a Nikon D610, for shallow DOF and very low light. In reality however, I rarely use it for any of that. I mostly use it when an OVF is more convenient and when I'm out and about with the old Nikkor 300mm :)
 
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