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Thread: GH5s

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    GH5s

    Panasonic is really charging ahead these days. Since the G9 will take care of the high end stills market, they've apparently decided to introduce a new version of the GH5 that is even more specialised towards high end video, the GH5s with a 12MP sensor and excellent high ISO plus upto 240 fps in 1080p. This looks like something similar to what Sony did with the A7s.

    Although the G9 will fullfill most of my stills as well as video needs, I will at some stage consider two bodies, and a second body with better high ISO, possibly better DR and clearly better and more advanced video will be tempting. Fascinating stuff.

    https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-panason...motion-movies/

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    Re: GH5s

    I have the feeling that Panasonic are just on the right track.

    I am pretty sure that all of this (G9, GH5, GH5s) and wonderful PL glass will finally pay off as being pretty fully accepted as a professional lineup for photography and video - with excellent lense topping most of the even FF competition.

    At least my decision to move fully m43 seems to be right

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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: GH5s

    Even though I am a stills photographer, for a time I did own the A7S purely for high-iso stills photography.

    I was a bit surprised at how quickly I found 12mpx limiting, given that my other body was the 36mpx A7R.

    I am sure this beast, if the specs are accurate, will fulfil and important place in the hearts of videographers and of course, best of luck to Panasonic because if it is a winner then we'll all benefit from their ability to expand the product line further.

    It is pretty amazing to think of how far m43rds - introduced as an entry level camera system - has come. You even have pro-sports photographers getting photos from rugby matches into national newspapers, here in the UK. I certainly could never have pursued my growing interest in bird photography without the lightweight solution m43rds provides.

    LouisB
    Last edited by biglouis; 15th December 2017 at 00:06.
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    Re: GH5s

    Here are the latest rumoured specs. With this level of detail, I suppose they ar pretty accurate.

    Video specs:

    The camera records C4K (60p, 150Mbps, 4:2:2 10 bit Long GOP)
    The camera records slow motion at 240fps (FHD).
    It will ship in late February for an estimated price around $2,499

    Other specs:

    Effective pixels: 10,280,000 pixels
    Total number of pixels: 11,930,000
    4/3 LiveMOS sensor, primary color filter
    Digital zoom: 2x, 4x
    Extra tele conversion: max 2.0x for pictures, 2.1x for motions pictures
    Focus modes: AFS/AFF/AFC/MF
    Auto focus mode: Face/Eye detection/Tracking/225 area focusing/Custom/1 area focusing/Pinpoint
    12 fps (10 fps RAW 14 bit)
    ISO: 160-51,200
    Extended ISO: 80-102,400
    Minimum Illumination: approx 5 lx
    Mechanical shutter speed: B (max 30 min), 60 sec – 1/8,000
    Electronic shutter: 1 sec – 1/16,000
    Motion pictures shutter: 1/25 – 1/6,000
    Metering range: EV 0 to EV 18
    Exposure compensation: -5 EV to + 5 EV (1/3 EV steps)
    RAW pictures: 14 bit/12 bit
    MP4 (H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, ACC)
    Flash sync: 1/250
    Light metering system: 1728-zone multi-pattern sensing system
    LCD screen: 3.2″ TFT LCD (3:2), 1,620,000 dots, touchscreen
    Viewfinder: OLED (4:3), 3,680,000 dots with diopter adjustment (-4 to +3), magnifications approx: 1.52x, 0.76x
    Wi-Fi: 802.11a/b/g/n/ac
    Bluetooth 4.2
    Battery charger: Panasonic DMW-BTC13
    AC adapter: Panasonic VSK0815F
    Battery: Panasonic DMW-BLF19PP
    Two memory card slots
    4k photos
    HDMI Type A / USB 3.1
    Dimensions: 138,5×98.1×87.4
    Operating temperature: -10°C to 40°C (14°F to 104°F)
    Stereo mic, USB 3.1, HDMI Type A, remote, TC in/out
    Monaural speakers
    Dust-proof and splash-proof body
    SD/SDHC/SDXC memory card (double slot recording function available)

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Even though I am a stills photographer, for a time I did own the A7S purely for high-iso stills photography.

    I was a bit surprised at how quickly I found 12mpx limiting, given that my other body was the 36mpx A7R.

    I am sure this beast, if the specs are accurate, will fulfil and important place in the hearts of videographers and of course, best of luck to Panasonic because if it is a winner then we'll all benefit from their ability to expand the product line further.

    It is pretty amazing to think of how far m43rds - introduced as an entry level camera system - has come. You even have pro-sports photographers getting photos from rugby matches into national newspapers, here in the UK. I certainly could never have pursued my growing interest in bird photography without the lightweight solution m43rds provides.

    LouisB
    While I agree that 10 or 12 MP can be a limitation sometimes, I do still shoot with my 12MP Nikon bodies, also for commercial purposes. The big question when it comes to the GH5s is of course what the image and video quality will look like, particularly at high ISO. Another option, if a backup to the G9 is needed, is how many will sell their GH5 to buy the GH5s. Those used GH5 bodies may be interesting as a supplement to the G9 if the price is right.

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    Re: GH5s

    I view this upcoming model in pretty simple terms. It's a high performance wide-iso range video camera.

    I wish Panasonic hadn't ditched the GM line. And who knows when the next GX model if ever will show up. Looks like Panasonic is completely focused on the GH and variants. I understand it from the point of view of success since those models have been successful for them.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorden Udvang
    While I agree that 10 or 12 MP can be a limitation sometimes, I do still shoot with my 12MP Nikon bodies, also for commercial purposes.
    HA! It was just as I'd been bragging on you and the wonderful BBBIIIGGG print you'd shot (and some seller used on his sales booth at events) with 12mpx GH2 (IIRC) --never mind D700--, your affair w/D800 began. (And I think partly in reaction to this, Olympus came out w/40mpx option, just to "show HIM!", out of spite. )
    In some other thread, someone made a recommendation for a beginner to just get a D700 & some primes, as a good starting system; and Kit et al. responded, "Heck, nevermind beginner : that's what I'M thinking of!" (And I feel their pain.)

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    I view this upcoming model in pretty simple terms. It's a high performance wide-iso range video camera.

    I wish Panasonic hadn't ditched the GM line. And who knows when the next GX model if ever will show up ...
    - Ricardo
    And for the "GX" line, there's the split personality of the robust GX8 vs. more compact GX80/GX7markII (which alas lost the 7's great gripping grip).

    -d.

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by drofnad View Post
    HA! It was just as I'd been bragging on you and the wonderful BBBIIIGGG print you'd shot (and some seller used on his sales booth at events) with 12mpx GH2 (IIRC) --never mind D700--, your affair w/D800 began. (And I think partly in reaction to this, Olympus came out w/40mpx option, just to "show HIM!", out of spite. )
    In some other thread, someone made a recommendation for a beginner to just get a D700 & some primes, as a good starting system; and Kit et al. responded, "Heck, nevermind beginner : that's what I'M thinking of!" (And I feel their pain.)


    And for the "GX" line, there's the split personality of the robust GX8 vs. more compact GX80/GX7markII (which alas lost the 7's great gripping grip).

    -d.
    Ha ha... you remember that, do you? The GH2 photo is still being used, but I'm looking to replace it now. The GH2 was 16MP btw., and from a sensor point of view one of my favourite cameras, since it was oversized. The camera that comes closest for specs and ergonomics nowadays is the G85, and two of my colleagues use that. Apart from the viewfinder, which is not that great, it's the camera that makes most sense. It really has everything I need, 16MP included.

    Lots of megapixels, like in the D810, is a fascinating feature. It's like ultra WA lenses and very long telephoto; you see things that the human eye doesn't normally see. For me however, it's a distraction. I try to be a story teller, and I try to catch the moment. Everything slows down when camera bodies as well as lenses approach one kilogram each.

    All that detail makes me think about my sister who was nearsighted as a child. When she got her first pair of glasses, she stood staring out of the kitchen window, calling the whole family over and said "Have you seen all those trees on the hill over there?". We had of course, and being two years older than her, I had even been there, aiming to catch the fox that somebody claimed was roaming round there. I had even brought a rope for the purpose, a black silky one that I found in one of my mother's drawers.

    That's where I want to be, over at that hill, rather than looking at it through a telephoto lens.

    But I'm heavily off topic. Although there are sensible choices around, like the G85 and mid-range Nikon cameras (I do have a D610), I'm a camera extremist. I look for perfection in the absurd. That's why I have an F6 and an OM-3, two of the best 35mm cameras around, although at totally different ends of the scale. And I use them. When I play golf (which I don't do very often anymore), I tee off with a 2 Iron, a Mizuno blade. Even the caddies ask me sometimes why I'm not embarrased missing the tee shot so often

    When using a camera like what the GH5s sems to become, there are no bragging rights for resolution, and although it will be better than other m4/3 bodies when it comes to high ISO, it will always trail behind a Sony A7s in that area. If you can't succeed in taking photos that are interesting with that camera, you could as well have used an old Instamatic. It will obviously be great for video, but that won't come for free either. The saturated redorangepink sunsets that come out of an iPhone X won't happen with a GH5s until after the V-log files have been through a couple of hours with some expensive editing software with a user interface that makes the cockpit of a 747 look closer to an iPad in comparison.

    The reason why I sold the D700, and didn't buy another one when I bought the D610 a few months ago, was weight and size, not megapixels. The GH5s will be an extreme machine, and it will require work and knowledge. Yes, I'm genuinly interested. If I buy it, it will be a way to keep myself allert. I'm 61 now, so I need that (and more frequent visits to the gym). I'm starting an extended Christmas holiday today, 10 days in all. A major part of it, I'll spend watching photography and video making tutorials. If I retire from my day job, I want my hobby to be a meaningful activity, not something I do to make time disappear. The GH5s would be an interesting challenge to deal with. Time will show...

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    ..... I try to be a story teller, and I try to catch the moment. Everything slows down when camera bodies as well as lenses approach one kilogram each.
    .....

    The reason why I sold the D700, and didn't buy another one when I bought the D610 a few months ago, was weight and size, not megapixels. ...
    I sold my Nikon D800 for the same reason. I kept a few lenses just in case. But did not buy yet another DSLR body.

    I have a Fuji and an MFT system and try to decide in which direction I will go. But for environmental portraits, it is hard to beat the Nikkor 85/1.8G on fullframe. The Lumix 42.5/1.7 is not able to produce this background blurr...

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by 4711 View Post
    I have a Fuji and an MFT system and try to decide in which direction I will go. But for environmental portraits, it is hard to beat the Nikkor 85/1.8G on fullframe. The Lumix 42.5/1.7 is not able to produce this background blurr...
    Perhaps the new 45/1.2 (90/2.4) better suits your taste for background blurr.
    Worth trying or at least check out the sample pictures.
    Bart ...

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    Re: GH5s

    Christmas dinner tonight, then straight to a bar with some great musicians, only bringing my cheap phone. Maybe the GX850 is what I'm looking for.

    https://www.facebook.com/jorgen.udva...5261376271676/

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Perhaps the new 45/1.2 (90/2.4) better suits your taste for background blurr.
    Worth trying or at least check out the sample pictures.
    I have not seen yet comparison shots for casual portraits between the Lumix 42.5/1.7 and either the Nocticron 42.5/1.2 or the Olympus 45/1.2.

    Most images are just images made with one lens, or they take backgrounds which are miles away.

    Did anybody find good comparison shots on the internet? Please post them.

    The other issue is the size of both F1.2 lenses. They are bigger than the Fuji XF 56/1.2. This makes MFT obsolete, if an APS-C sensor type system is smaller once you need shallow DOF.

    But currently the userinterface, usability, AF, IBIS, tilting and touch screen make the MFT system at least with Panasonic bodies more desireble than the current Fuji bodies.

    So there is good and bad on both sides...

    I looked today at a D610 of a friend. Man is this body big if you are used to a GX80/85 or Fuji body.... I forgot that already

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by 4711 View Post
    I have not seen yet comparison shots for casual portraits between the Lumix 42.5/1.7 and either the Nocticron 42.5/1.2 or the Olympus 45/1.2.

    Most images are just images made with one lens, or they take backgrounds which are miles away.

    Did anybody find good comparison shots on the internet? Please post them.

    The other issue is the size of both F1.2 lenses. They are bigger than the Fuji XF 56/1.2. This makes MFT obsolete, if an APS-C sensor type system is smaller once you need shallow DOF.

    But currently the userinterface, usability, AF, IBIS, tilting and touch screen make the MFT system at least with Panasonic bodies more desireble than the current Fuji bodies.

    So there is good and bad on both sides...

    I looked today at a D610 of a friend. Man is this body big if you are used to a GX80/85 or Fuji body.... I forgot that already
    APS-C will always have an advantage when it comes to background blur, but there are really so many good lens alternatives out there, and so many factors that come into play, that it's really not possible to come up with a waterproof comparison. For "portrait length", there's always the alternative of an f/1.2 SLR lens with a good focal length reducer, and although APS-C still offers shallower DOF, the f/0.85 that one gets out of such a combination should satisfy most users.

    I'm using a Samyang 50mm f/1.2 in m4/3 mount for shallow DOF portraits, a great lens in most respects, and I'm rarely, if ever, left in the dust. All photos with the GX8:

    Wide open:



    Wide open:



    At f/2 or 2.8:



    Yup, the D610 is a big piece of kit (the D750 and the D7500 feel much smaller, mostly because they are thinner), but when it comes to image quality per dollar, it's a great option.

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by 4711 View Post
    I have not seen yet comparison shots for casual portraits between the Lumix 42.5/1.7 and either the Nocticron 42.5/1.2 or the Olympus 45/1.2.

    Most images are just images made with one lens, or they take backgrounds which are miles away.

    Did anybody find good comparison shots on the internet? Please post them.

    The other issue is the size of both F1.2 lenses. They are bigger than the Fuji XF 56/1.2. This makes MFT obsolete, if an APS-C sensor type system is smaller once you need shallow DOF.

    But currently the userinterface, usability, AF, IBIS, tilting and touch screen make the MFT system at least with Panasonic bodies more desireble than the current Fuji bodies.

    So there is good and bad on both sides...

    I looked today at a D610 of a friend. Man is this body big if you are used to a GX80/85 or Fuji body.... I forgot that already
    Here's a pretty good comparison of the two Panasonic 42.5mm lenses, the Voigtländer and the Zuiko 45mm f/1.8. They have tested sharpness, bokeh and bokeh related to minimum focusing distance:

    https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/mic...lander-42-5mm/

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Here's a pretty good comparison of the two Panasonic 42.5mm lenses, the Voigtländer and the Zuiko 45mm f/1.8. They have tested sharpness, bokeh and bokeh related to minimum focusing distance:

    https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/mic...lander-42-5mm/
    Thanks for that link. Very interesting. According to this comparison, I would rather perfer the Nocticron over the Voigtlaender, because the IQ is better in the center. At the same focus distance the background blurr does not seem big enough to sacrifice sharpness in the middle for that.

    Unfortunately, the reviewer chose different focus distances with the flower shots. So you can not compare the background blur really.

    Does anybody has by accident images of the same shot at the same focus distance always wide open with the Samyang 50mm f/1.2 and/or Nocticron and/or Olympus 45mm/1.2?

    I was thinking already about the Olympus 75/1.8 for better background blur, but the compression is different for the "look" and I also have longer distance to the model. The latter one is difficult for me because I like to talk to the models while shooting. They seem to be more relaxed then on the pictures

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    APS-C will always have an advantage when it comes to background blur, but there are really so many good lens alternatives out there, and so many factors that come into play, that it's really not possible to come up with a waterproof comparison. For "portrait length", there's always the alternative of an f/1.2 SLR lens with a good focal length reducer, and although APS-C still offers shallower DOF, the f/0.85 that one gets out of such a combination should satisfy most users.

    I'm using a Samyang 50mm f/1.2 in m4/3 mount for shallow DOF portraits, a great lens in most respects, and I'm rarely, if ever, left in the dust. All photos with the GX8:

    Wide open:



    Wide open:





    At f/2 or 2.8:



    Yup, the D610 is a big piece of kit (the D750 and the D7500 feel much smaller, mostly because they are thinner), but when it comes to image quality per dollar, it's a great option.
    Do you have the ISO values for these shots? They are not in the Exif data...

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by 4711 View Post
    Do you have the ISO values for these shots? They are not in the Exif data...
    The ISO values are 2500, 250 and 200 from top to bottom. No noise reduction as far as I can remember.

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    APS-C will always have an advantage when it comes to background blur, but there are really so many good lens alternatives out there, and so many factors that come into play, that it's really not possible to come up with a waterproof comparison. For "portrait length", there's always the alternative of an f/1.2 SLR lens with a good focal length reducer, and although APS-C still offers shallower DOF, the f/0.85 that one gets out of such a combination should satisfy most users.

    I'm using a Samyang 50mm f/1.2 in m4/3 mount for shallow DOF portraits, a great lens in most respects, and I'm rarely, if ever, left in the dust. All photos with the GX8:

    ....
    I just bought the Samyang/Rokinon 50/1.2 and made a few snapshots with it to compare it to my small Panasonic 42.5/1.7. The good news is, that it is easy to focus manually with the GX80. Very good feeling. I like that.

    The bad news is, that the Samyang is by far not as sharp wide open as my 42.5/1.7 and that the bokeh is almost identical to the 42.5/1.7, if you adjust the focus distance to get the exact same shot.

    Anybody else experienced that?

    Since the Lumix 42.5/1.7 is cheaper and smaller and has AF, I will probably return the Samyang.

    Is there maybe a 50mm/0.95 (MFT) out there, which is good enough in image quality wide open for portraits and gives better bokeh than the Lumix 42.5/1.7 or the Oly 45/1.8?

    It would be a shame to be forced to buy a FF camera just for this...

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by 4711 View Post
    I just bought the Samyang/Rokinon 50/1.2 and made a few snapshots with it to compare it to my small Panasonic 42.5/1.7. The good news is, that it is easy to focus manually with the GX80. Very good feeling. I like that.

    The bad news is, that the Samyang is by far not as sharp wide open as my 42.5/1.7 and that the bokeh is almost identical to the 42.5/1.7, if you adjust the focus distance to get the exact same shot.

    Anybody else experienced that?

    Since the Lumix 42.5/1.7 is cheaper and smaller and has AF, I will probably return the Samyang.

    Is there maybe a 50mm/0.95 (MFT) out there, which is good enough in image quality wide open for portraits and gives better bokeh than the Lumix 42.5/1.7 or the Oly 45/1.8?

    It would be a shame to be forced to buy a FF camera just for this...
    Sorry to hear that the Samyang didn't work out for you. With the modest price of that lens, there is probably some sample variation.

    The only f/0.95 lens that I can think of is the Voigtländer 42.5mm, but it's relatively expensive and not really sharp wide open. However, any old 85mm f/1.4 (full frame) with a Metabones Speed Booster or the cheaper (and apparently very good) Viltrox EF-M2 will give you a 50mm f/1.0. An 85mm f/1.2 lens will become a 50mm f/0.85. The nice thing about the focal length reducers is that the good ones will make the image sharper, since they concentrate the image from the lens, rather than expanding it like a TC does.

    All kinds of experiments are possible with this of course, and most users seem to have positive experiences. Since the Viltrox is only $200, I will probably buy it in EF-mount and buy OM to EF and F to EF to start experimenting with my existing lenses. I'm particularly interested in what I can achieve with the tiny OM-Zuiko 85mm f/2 and the (not so tiny) Samyang 135mm f/2.

    When that is said, I do actually own a full frame camera, a Nikon D610, for shallow DOF and very low light. In reality however, I rarely use it for any of that. I mostly use it when an OVF is more convenient and when I'm out and about with the old Nikkor 300mm

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    Re: GH5s

    Here we go ....

    The Lumix GH5S is Panasonic's most video-focused camera yet | TechRadar

    An impressive video camera - although nothing what I lust for - but I am sure it will shuffle the video market up down

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Here we go ....

    The Lumix GH5S is Panasonic's most video-focused camera yet | TechRadar

    An impressive video camera - although nothing what I lust for - but I am sure it will shuffle the video market up down
    Looks great for indie filmmakers, crash cams, B/C cams, and advanced YouTube content providers.

    I wonder what the dual ISO levels will be set at. I know quite a few people were bummed that the EVA1 was set at 800/2500 when VariCam is at 800/5000. I hope they at least have the same options for this camera given the pricing.
    Visible Light & IR Photographer
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    Re: GH5s

    What is initially clear is that for low light video, the GH5s sweeps the floor with the GH5. I did another comparison however, with stills from the Imaging Resource studio scene, which isn't a low light scene at all, but:

    - When reducing the GH5 images to the resolution of the GH5s, the noise and general detail rendering seem similar.
    - When it comes to colour accuracy and in particular colour detail, the GH5s is clearly superior. For colour detail in the red spectrum (orange to purple), the GH5s is vastly superior.

    I only checked the ISO 6,400 and 25,600 images.

    Would there be any point buying this camera to do 50% or more stills? For some people, maybe.

    - If 10MP is enough for one's needs.
    - It offers great high ISO straight out of the camera.
    - Colour detail seems to be better than with the GH5.
    - Smaller files.
    - Oversized sensor for less difference in MP size between different aspect ratios (my GH2 used to be glued to 16:9).
    - No IBIS means one thing less that may fail, and most Panasonic lenses offer OIS anyway.
    - Less MP requires more self dicipline.
    - I do an increasing amount of industrial video which is often low light.

    In a way, it's like an E-1 on steroids that can also do very high-end video. I must admit I like the idea I don't expect many others to follow me on this one though

    Oh... and during a re-organising of my image archive (more on that on a separate thread later) I found that more than 80% of the stills I've taken with digital cameras ever were taken with cameras that have 12MP or less. I still use a couple of them

    Hmmm... at the moment there's no money under the mattress, but later maybe

    I sure will have to try one though.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: GH5s

    Here's a preview from a trusted (video) source:

    https://www.eoshd.com/2018/01/panaso...ds/#more-18878

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    Re: GH5s

    This is clearly not the camera for me - especially no IBIS and too much video centric - I would rather choose the normal GH5.

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    Re: GH5s

    I think same ... not bad, but not "necessary" (for me)

    GH5s, 12800 ISO
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bdg8HMYhz33/

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    This is clearly not the camera for me - especially no IBIS and too much video centric - I would rather choose the normal GH5.
    Yeah I think the G9 is more what you’d want.

    The GH series has always been about Video and this is no different. I see this more as a option for those without the GH5, indie shooters, YouTubers, or dedicated B/C/Crash Cam needs. Also those that need lowlight capability.
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    Re: GH5s

    The better colour detail rendering that I mentioned earlier is probably due to the 14 bit RAW files in combination with the larger pixels. That's my guess at least. I've compared low ISO files as well now, and there's not any noticeable difference when it comes to colours between the two, and the GH5 obviously shows a lot more detail here.

    Video is again the big strength of this camera, and due to the oversized sensor, Cine 4K, which uses the whole width of the sensor (4096 pixels), has a lower crop factor than 2 (I think I saw 1.86 mentioned somewhere), which means that the 7-14mm lens becomes something like a 13-26mm eqv. That's pretty cool actually

    Here's another interesting video showing the video capabilities of this camera:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=ItSiupRG2Oo

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    Re: GH5s

    Well it looks like the Dual ISO is set at ISO400/2500 which is likely so that it doesn’t cannibalize the EVA1 or VariCam. Another thing of note is that the GH5S loses 5-Axis IBIS so it’s importantly to choose carefully if you aren’t going to have this live on a tripod or gimbal. Maybe not a huge deal for filmmakers or Advanced Video users but it does mean that this isn’t the pure all arounder the GH5 or G9 are for most people.

    Another great thing about the GH5/S is the built in Anamorphic film modes. I don’t know any other camera makers doing that at this price point. Excellent choice for those that make music videos as well.
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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Well it looks like the Dual ISO is set at ISO400/2500 which is likely so that it doesn’t cannibalize the EVA1 or VariCam. Another thing of note is that the GH5S loses 5-Axis IBIS so it’s importantly to choose carefully if you aren’t going to have this live on a tripod or gimbal. Maybe not a huge deal for filmmakers or Advanced Video users but it does mean that this isn’t the pure all arounder the GH5 or G9 are for most people.

    Another great thing about the GH5/S is the built in Anamorphic film modes. I don’t know any other camera makers doing that at this price point. Excellent choice for those that make music videos as well.
    For those who work with two bodies, GH5s plus GH5 or GH5s plus G9 would be ideal. As I keep watching videos and read reviews, lots of small details come up. One such detail is that the microphone jack can be set to line-in mode. That means that the camera can record sound from a sound recorder with line-out, like the more advanced Tascam and Zoom models (not to be confused with headphone out which operates with different, not constant levels).

    Here's another, well thought out video that shows the difference between OIS and Dual IS very well, as well as the difference between the 180 fps of the GH5 and the 240 fps of the GH5s:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TvczoXB1aA

    As for myself, most of my current video work being industrial and on a tripod anyway, the loss of Dual IS isn't that big a problem. The GX8 that I use now doesn't have it when shooting 4K. If or when I buy a new camera, I'll keep the GX8, which covers the 20MP part for me most of the time. We'll see. I can't afford it, right?

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    For those who work with two bodies, GH5s plus GH5 or GH5s plus G9 would be ideal. As I keep watching videos and read reviews, lots of small details come up. One such detail is that the microphone jack can be set to line-in mode. That means that the camera can record sound from a sound recorder with line-out, like the more advanced Tascam and Zoom models (not to be confused with headphone out which operates with different, not constant levels).

    Here's another, well thought out video that shows the difference between OIS and Dual IS very well, as well as the difference between the 180 fps of the GH5 and the 240 fps of the GH5s:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TvczoXB1aA

    As for myself, most of my current video work being industrial and on a tripod anyway, the loss of Dual IS isn't that big a problem. The GX8 that I use now doesn't have it when shooting 4K. If or when I buy a new camera, I'll keep the GX8, which covers the 20MP part for me most of the time. We'll see. I can't afford it, right?

    No I already understand the principles of all of that and I wasn’t implying the loss of 5-Axis was bad. Just another factor to consider. I believe the GH5S steps even deeper into the video production side than older GH camera to really differentiate the GH line even further from the G line. I believe this is a good strategic move and I hope Panasonic implements some sort of PDAF in the next generation of cameras. That’s the one area that I believe Canon, Olympus, Sony, and even Fujifilm to some extent now are far surpassing Panasonic in the Vlogging, event shooter, and one man indie video rig arena... I know that’s not the main market for them but it is a substantial piece of it that creates and generates a lot of buzz in their direction (good or bad)

    As for audio recorders I personally lean heavily towards the Sound Devices MixPre series (or Zoom H6/F4/F8) for small production, wedding video, Youtube, or podcasting type functions.
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    Re: GH5s

    Here's a bunch of photos. Some of those taken at ISO 20,000 are obscenely good:

    http://www.photographyblog.com/revie...review_images/

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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Here's a bunch of photos. Some of those taken at ISO 20,000 are obscenely good:

    http://www.photographyblog.com/revie...review_images/
    Well that’s nice but I guess the thing is that it’s not hard to make small 10mp images look good. For instance the A7S images look great ablove 51200. If you down-Rez A7RII Images they look great as well.
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  34. #34
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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Well that’s nice but I guess the thing is that it’s not hard to make small 10mp images look good. For instance the A7S images look great ablove 51200. If you down-Rez A7RII Images they look great as well.
    The A7s models are certainly impressive at high ISO and the only A7 models I have considered. But m4/3 and usable ISO 20,000... I don't get that from the GX8 even if I downres to 10 MP.

  35. #35
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The better colour detail rendering that I mentioned earlier is probably due to the 14 bit RAW files in combination with the larger pixels. That's my guess at least. I've compared low ISO files as well now, and there's not any noticeable difference when it comes to colours between the two, and the GH5 obviously shows a lot more detail here.

    Video is again the big strength of this camera, and due to the oversized sensor, Cine 4K, which uses the whole width of the sensor (4096 pixels), has a lower crop factor than 2 (I think I saw 1.86 mentioned somewhere), which means that the 7-14mm lens becomes something like a 13-26mm eqv. That's pretty cool actually

    Here's another interesting video showing the video capabilities of this camera:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=ItSiupRG2Oo
    Definitely impressive tool! And impressive review!!!

  36. #36
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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Definitely impressive tool! And impressive review!!!
    Since digital cameras became mainstream, the discussions have mostly centered around resolution and high ISO noise. Only on medium format forums have the discussions around tonality and colour depth dominated. As a side effect of being a very competent video camera, the GH5s seems to have become a stills camera with some unusual abilities, like the Sony A7s, the Nikon D700 and the Fuji S3 before it. I'm sure there are more. The Olympus E-1? The Nikon Df?

    Neither of those cameras are or were for photographers who wanted the ultimate resolution in stills. They did however all get a reputation for having qualities that were unusual for their time. Although tons of resolution is cool, cool like ultra wideangles, super telephoto lenses and drones, it is not what makes or breakes my photos. Solid image quality with a file size large enough for the sizes I print, a good viewfinder, fluent ergonomics and a build quality that makes the camera a tool, not a showpiece, that's what I'm after.

    Would it be a better or worse tool for my work than the G9 or GH5? For video, certainly better. For photography, I would have to live with lower resolution and no dual IS. But the files I've seen so far have been impressive. I would love to play with some RAW files. They are available online, but how do I open them? My ACR, the 2018 version, seems unwilling.

    It's a bit like loading a roll of Tri-X in broad daylight when there's plenty of Velvia in the drawer. I like that

  37. #37
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: GH5s

    Well I would not call 20MP of a G9, GH5 or EM1.2 an overkill or too much resolution. For me the 20MP (or also 24MP) are just the right resolution - and I guess that will not go away for me, even when higher standard resolutions become available.

    But the 10 or 12 MP have always been too less resolution for my type of usage and also this will never change.
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    Re: GH5s

    Here's another wonderful review of this camera. They found that with video, the sensor is 3.5 stops better with regards to noise at high ISO. That's threeandahalfstopexclamationmark.

    And the final comment is... watch the video and see for yourself.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJvcI8Twnlc

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    Re: GH5s

    As for the lack of IBIS, there seem to be several reasons:

    - The oversized sensor makes it more complicated, since the body is the same as the GH5 that has a slightly smaller sensor.
    - It prevents the sensor from being mounted on a heat sink, increasing sensor temperature which again generates noise.
    - Many professional video makers have specifically asked for a model without IBIS, since the IBIS mechanism tends to malfuncition or even com loose when the camera is mounted in or on race cars etc. where there's strong vibration.
    - In most professional production environment, the camera is mounted on a gimbal, tripod, steadycam etc. anyway.

    Makes sense to me, and since both the original GH5 and the G9 have IBIS, this is hardly a problem. Several Panasonic lenses have OIS anyway.

    Me? The fewer moving parts the better. One thing less that will break or malfunction. I have owned and used dozens of cameras and only two have had IBIS, the E-M1 and the GX8 that I use now. Maybe get a mini fluidhead for my Gorilla-pod, if such a thing exists

  40. #40
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: GH5s

    Jorgen,

    I do understand that you really love to have this camera - BUT you should not try to find arguments against everything that was good till now and for everything that is great from now on with the GH5s.

    If you like it as much, just buy it
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    Re: GH5s

    I’ve been seeing these comparisons between IBIS v. going without IBIS and I assumed (perhaps correctly) the decision to go without IBIS is tied to sensor cooling, sensor size, and the fact that most people buying these cameras will most likely have them “glued” to a tripod or gimbal. It sort of defeats the “need” for IBIS in all situations and the improved lowlight is another factor to mitigate the loss of IBIS.

    The other thing to remember is that this isn't a replacement but rather an addition to the lineup. The GH5 will still be sold alongside it.
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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Jorgen,

    I do understand that you really love to have this camera - BUT you should not try to find arguments against everything that was good till now and for everything that is great from now on with the GH5s.

    If you like it as much, just buy it
    True. Might be a great time to snag a gently used s/h GH5 for a bargain price. You’ll get 95%+ of the performance of the GH5S.
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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Well I would not call 20MP of a G9, GH5 or EM1.2 an overkill or too much resolution. For me the 20MP (or also 24MP) are just the right resolution - and I guess that will not go away for me, even when higher standard resolutions become available.

    But the 10 or 12 MP have always been too less resolution for my type of usage and also this will never change.
    Same here and the absolute minimum resolution for me is 16-24 megapixels. It’s the main reason I’ve mostly avoided the A7s series despite liking the fat pixel look. I like high megapixel bodies a lot more than I thought I would but that’s another conversation.
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  44. #44
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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Jorgen,

    I do understand that you really love to have this camera - BUT you should not try to find arguments against everything that was good till now and for everything that is great from now on with the GH5s.

    If you like it as much, just buy it
    I'm not trying to argue against anything, just trying to figure out how this camera is built and why. When that is said, I have always had a preference for simple cameras without stuff I don't feel I need. One can always argue that the GH5s isn't really simplistic, but a very advanced video powerhouse. However, Panasonic has clearly removed stuff that might not stand up to heavy use in challenging environments. That is exactly what I like

    And my printer doesn't print on larger than A2 paper anyway. That's no match for a 10 MP camera.

  45. #45
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I'm not trying to argue against anything, just trying to figure out how this camera is built and why. When that is said, I have always had a preference for simple cameras without stuff I don't feel I need. One can always argue that the GH5s isn't really simplistic, but a very advanced video powerhouse. However, Panasonic has clearly removed stuff that might not stand up to heavy use in challenging environments. That is exactly what I like

    And my printer doesn't print on larger than A2 paper anyway. That's no match for a 10 MP camera.
    Well, I even could not argue if you like really simple cameras to go with a Leica M10 - which I BTW would meanwhile really prefer as one of my main cameras - as while this one is very simple (das Wesentliche) but does no longer support any video ....

  46. #46
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    Re: GH5s

    This camera apparantly does better than the A7s at ISO25600!

  47. #47
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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    This camera apparantly does better than the A7s at ISO25600!
    I guess time will tell.

    It seems people were someone let down by the expectations generated by Panasonic with the EVA1. It was marketed as their “Alexa Mini or Amira” when compared to the VariCam but many people were disappointed that it was more like a GH5 on steroids. It lacked the more “filmic” look of the VariCam. I don’t know that Panasonic is promising that with the GH5 but we will see what’s real once it gets in the hands of more people.
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    Re: GH5s

    Sort of a comprehensive run down of the features and some beneficial uses.

    https://youtu.be/cd3x8xo1UE4
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  49. #49
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    Re: GH5s

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Well, I even could not argue if you like really simple cameras to go with a Leica M10 - which I BTW would meanwhile really prefer as one of my main cameras - as while this one is very simple (das Wesentliche) but does no longer support any video ....
    My favourite camera is the M-D, preferably with the APO 50mm. Unfortunately, it's way out of my budget, as is the M10, at least if I were to buy a lens or two to use with it.

  50. #50
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    Re: GH5s

    Yes, you can buy two lenses to go with an M. Jupiter 8 50/2 is very inexpensive, for example. The new 7artisans 50/1.1 (see: Can a 300 Euro Chinese lens beat a ten thousand Euro Leica lens? | Blog | LEICA) is certainly affordable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    My favourite camera is the M-D, preferably with the APO 50mm. Unfortunately, it's way out of my budget, as is the M10, at least if I were to buy a lens or two to use with it.
    I would like to see more actual owners/users of M cameras than web cheer leaders.

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