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Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Yes, possibly. The G9 is new, Oly Pen-F has been on the market a while and C1 has a history of frequent updates so a better profile for the G9 could well be implemented in the future. Great camera otherwise btw.
Yeah I think that’s something to look out for and generally speaking I found Panasonic color to be somewhere between Canon and Leica in the past. Haven’t owned any of their cameras newer than the GH2 but only have the G1 still at this point. I primarily use Sony cameras now but I am mostly brand agnostic when it comes to “loyalty” to a camera brand.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
In spite of being the first to offer a mirrorless camera, Panasonic has always been a niche player in this market. I hope they will launch a full frame alternative that reinforces their position as a niche player rather than competing with others on equal terms. Probably, they are realistic enough to know their strengths. This would mean a camera that is still strong on video, and maybe even with a global shutter. I doubt that it will be cheap. My guess is minimum $4,000.

It would be logical to go with L-mount. Alternatively, they would not only have to develop their own mount, but also all the lenses needed for it, unless Olympus is onboard from the start. The cooperation with Leica is strong, and there's probably more than a little Panasonic DNA in the SL. I would say the chances are well over 90% for that mount.

That would probably mean that a new SL is in the cards, with the same sensor as the Panasonic or a better one.

And I thought I would be going Nikon Z next year :wtf: :loco: :facesmack: :chug:
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Using C1, I get a reddish tint in skin tones from the G9. The Oly Pen-F seems to go much better with C1. Much the same with Photo Ninja where the cast is yellowish from the G9.
Arne,
If you had said yellowish, I would confirm, but not reddish, not in my photos anyway. I use ACR however, so take this for what it is. On the Panasonic cameras that I use (GM5 and GX8), the camera tends to push the colour balance a bit to high, anything from 5,500 to almost 7,000 where it should have been 5,000 to just under 6,000. This mostly render Asian skin tones yellowish. I use two methods to adjust this:

- The obvious method is to adjust the colour balance, but then I often have to adjust the tint also, mostly slightly towards magenta, but not always.
- The Saturation slider in ACR increases yellow, so I'm verycareful with that. The Vibrance slider gives the colours a more "gentle" push and seems more "neutral".

This again is for ACR, and again most of my people shots are of Asians, so diferent skin tones. My favorite skin tones come from the Fuji Super CCD in the S3 and S5, but unfortunately, they are rather cluncy old cameras by today's standard.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Arne,
If you had said yellowish, I would confirm, but not reddish, not in my photos anyway. I use ACR however, so take this for what it is. On the Panasonic cameras that I use (GM5 and GX8), the camera tends to push the colour balance a bit to high, anything from 5,500 to almost 7,000 where it should have been 5,000 to just under 6,000. This mostly render Asian skin tones yellowish. I use two methods to adjust this:

- The obvious method is to adjust the colour balance, but then I often have to adjust the tint also, mostly slightly towards magenta, but not always.
- The Saturation slider in ACR increases yellow, so I'm verycareful with that. The Vibrance slider gives the colours a more "gentle" push and seems more "neutral".

This again is for ACR, and again most of my people shots are of Asians, so diferent skin tones. My favorite skin tones come from the Fuji Super CCD in the S3 and S5, but unfortunately, they are rather cluncy old cameras by today's standard.
Thia is probably where we will disagree on strategy.

Niche or not i want all companies to put out the beat product they possibly can at a certain target price point without regards for protecting upmarket products. For example the A7gen 3 line has a higher rated mechanical shutter than the A9 though the A9 is more advanced in nearly every other way. Likewise I believe this is what drove a lot of the “meh” comments towards Nikon’s Z. I believe many people (rightfully so) believe Nikon is still protecting their DSLR’s with the Z though I see them as different cameras that can coexist... in a sense if that’s going to be the case I can see why many people hoped they just kept the F mount and made a Mirrorless F mount camera with all the same features. I get wanting a larger mount in a sense but I don’t know that they’ve announced anything that requires a larger mount either.

Back to Panasonic though, I’d like to see them do something at least evolutionary because life with the duopoly of uninspired CaNikon cameras would be the worst thing for the camera industry IMO. Remember how Leica almost folded? Remember how Micro 4/3 Consortium dripped DSLR tech? Remember how Sony created their own niche market? Remember how Fuji did a great job of bringing retro to the modern age? I don’t think any of the positives happen with just CaNikon dominating the market. They needed the shake up and frankly maybe they need some big failures to become better companies.
 

raist3d

Well-known member
I really think this is the beginning of the end for m43. I’ll give it 5 years from now before it’s obvious.

Olympus has a super high end rumored camera for 2018- I bet that’s FF. In the last two years Olympus has been filing FF lens patents quietly.

The good news is that both Olympus and Panasonic are more ready than one may think for the new fight. The bad is I think m43 goes away. Seeing that Panasonic won’t make more gm5s, that both Olympus and Panny have made big $2k tier cameras and that Fuji is sitting quite well with apsc pretty much at even better pricing and a huge overlap in focal length and size, I don’t see how m43 will go on long term.

- Ricardo
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I really think this is the beginning of the end for m43. I’ll give it 5 years from now before it’s obvious.

Olympus has a super high end rumored camera for 2018- I bet that’s FF. In the last two years Olympus has been filing FF lens patents quietly.

The good news is that both Olympus and Panasonic are more ready than one may think for the new fight. The bad is I think m43 goes away. Seeing that Panasonic won’t make more gm5s, that both Olympus and Panny have made big $2k tier cameras and that Fuji is sitting quite well with apsc pretty much at even better pricing and a huge overlap in focal length and size, I don’t see how m43 will go on long term.

- Ricardo
I fear you are right, but I'm not sure yet. Cameras like the Pen F and the GX9 would be hard to make in full frame. I think it was a mistake by Panasonic to downgrade the GX9 compared to the GX8. However... maybe that's exactly the signal that this system is on borrowed time.

To me, these are all good news. I was considering going to full frame next year anyway, and although I like Nikon, I love Panasonic. Maybe there will be a GX8-like full frame camera? That would be very exciting :)
 

Knorp

Well-known member
I fear you are right, but I'm not sure yet. Cameras like the Pen F and the GX9 would be hard to make in full frame. I think it was a mistake by Panasonic to downgrade the GX9 compared to the GX8. However... maybe that's exactly the signal that this system is on borrowed time.

To me, these are all good news. I was considering going to full frame next year anyway, and although I like Nikon, I love Panasonic. Maybe there will be a GX8-like full frame camera? That would be very exciting :)
There was a rumour about Panasonic 'streamlining' their portfolio to keep only the GX- and GH-lines.
I think their latest 'G' was a serious excercise in building a 'FF look-a-like' forerunner ...

Just my two guilders ... :p
 

raist3d

Well-known member
I fear you are right, but I'm not sure yet. Cameras like the Pen F and the GX9 would be hard to make in full frame. I think it was a mistake by Panasonic to downgrade the GX9 compared to the GX8. However... maybe that's exactly the signal that this system is on borrowed time.

To me, these are all good news. I was considering going to full frame next year anyway, and although I like Nikon, I love Panasonic. Maybe there will be a GX8-like full frame camera? That would be very exciting :)
I was saying in another place that Olympus and Panasonic needed to wake up and put their best tech, size & heat forbidding, in the OMD EM5 MKIII, PenF MKII, GX9, GX9 MKII, GM9 tiers. But Panasonic is not doing the GM, we still don't see the EM5 MKIII.

Then we get Panasonic is announcing a FF and that Olympus has a super high end camera (higher end than EM1MKII per rumors) for early 2019. I bet now that Olympus is a FF model.

Olympus has been quietly filing FF lens patents in the last 2-3 years... with no product out (yet).

So let's say they do the OMD EM5 MKIII / GX9 MKII tiers... well with that, they also have to contend with Fuji. So basically too big/pricey (GH5/G9/Em1 MKII) and you are touching the low end but still surprisingly "pro" full frame market, or go a bit lower and you have Fuji to deal with (I would say Sony with A6xxx line, but seems to me Sony hasn't cared about doing good lenses for that mount).

Oh, and all that Canon needs to do at the APS level is release some nice lenses.

- Ricardo
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Interesting move by Panasonic - its current GH5 is a pretty much a 'standard' for a lot of video shooters on a budget - a Leica TL mount would make things interesting....
 

pegelli

Well-known member
More choices, more competition, neither is bad for us photographers. Exciting times :thumbup:
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
One thing that speaks against discontinuing m43 for Panasonic is that many low budget video makers actually prefer the smaller sensor. This is one of the reasons for Panasonic's high market share in this niche.
 

Arne Hvaring

Well-known member
I want a better E-M1.3 camera for my MFT lenses.
Precisely; I am convinced there is still a lot of potential in the m43 format. The fact that Panasonic has recently released two high-end long lenses and Olympus has just fulfilled the range of excellent f1,2 lenses (with a 12 mm in the wings) speaks against any plans to discontinue the format. At least that's how I read it.
 

Arne Hvaring

Well-known member
Arne,
If you had said yellowish, I would confirm, but not reddish, not in my photos anyway. I use ACR however, so take this for what it is. On the Panasonic cameras that I use (GM5 and GX8), the camera tends to push the colour balance a bit to high, anything from 5,500 to almost 7,000 where it should have been 5,000 to just under 6,000. This mostly render Asian skin tones yellowish. I use two methods to adjust this:

- The obvious method is to adjust the colour balance, but then I often have to adjust the tint also, mostly slightly towards magenta, but not always.
- The Saturation slider in ACR increases yellow, so I'm verycareful with that. The Vibrance slider gives the colours a more "gentle" push and seems more "neutral".

This again is for ACR, and again most of my people shots are of Asians, so diferent skin tones. My favorite skin tones come from the Fuji Super CCD in the S3 and S5, but unfortunately, they are rather cluncy old cameras by today's standard.
Jørgen, thank you for sharing your experience. I am currently out of the Adobe subscription loop so I can't comment on ACR. I have tried Luminar recently and to my surprise it does a reasonably good job with the G9 files. Surprising because it makes a mess of the D850 files.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Also keep this in mind.

Assuming this is a high megapixel offering and the flange diatance ia equal to or shorter than the Micro 4/3 camera there’s no reason Panasonic can’t introduce a native 4/3 crop adapter that provides a 12-20 megapixel image size crop mode for all the Micro 4/3 lenses we own and love. Essentially this camera COULD provide the same experience from Micro 4/3 AND add improved IQ. I’ll be watching this announcement and what Canon is doing extremely closely as direct Sony competitors.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Tre, I am interested in 20+ MPixels for MFT, not fewer. :facesmack:
I can understand that and I agree that should be the “goal” but outside a quantum leap in sensor tech with dealing with noise and high ISO capability should we expect much more than 20mp in the near term? I mean it’s technically possible but the GH5s dropped back heavily in megapixels for a reason and it was released less than a year ago.
 

biglouis

Well-known member
I was sort-of hoping Panasonic would do a Fuji and leap over the FF sensor size and go MF mirroless. After all, they do have a relationship with Leica which might help with that form factor and lenses.

Be interesting to see what transpires later this month.

LouisB
 

Knorp

Well-known member
You know what ? I feel like a rabbit caught in multiple headlights ... :shocked:

The choice is simply overwhelming; Leica FF (M10-P), Nikon FF (Z), Canon FF (EOS-R), Panasonic FF (?), Olympus FF (?), Fuji GFX (S or R), ... :banghead:

Oh well, good thing is I'll keep on saving this way ... :rolleyes:
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
You know what ? I feel like a rabbit caught in multiple headlights ... :shocked:

The choice is simply overwhelming; Leica FF (M10-P), Nikon FF (Z), Canon FF (EOS-R), Panasonic FF (?), Olympus FF (?), Fuji GFX (S or R), ... :banghead:

Oh well, good thing is I'll keep on saving this way ... :rolleyes:
Thanks Bart. I really need to see what actually materializes.
My A9 is looking better with each announcement/speculation. :clap:
 
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