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Thread: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Well we still need a dedicated L-Mount section IMO. At least then we could add SL pics for those that own them.
    I agree. The group of L-mount users can quickly become very large here, with an interesting bunch of SL, CL, Panasonic and Sigma users. I'm already an ethusiast

    If one of these launches a couple of compact, full frame primes, I can even see myself considering a TL/2 or even a CL as a replacement for m4/3 (I wouldn't buy any of the APS-C lenses since they wouldn't be very useful on the S1). Actually, the CL would be a great backup for the S1

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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    I have not been following all the back and forth on this thread. That said...I am very happy to see Panasonic enter the FF sensor market with L-mount cameras and lenses.

    For me, these would not be a replacement for my m43 Panasonic/Olympus cameras and lenses. I doubt that any comparable focal length Pana FF L-mount camera/lens combo will be as compact as my versatile pair of GX8s with the 12-35/2.8 and 35-100/2.8 lenses. Nor as a replacement for my G85/G9 or Oly E-M1 with the other outstanding compact m43 lenses from Panasonic and Olympus with FF equivalent FL ranges between 16 and 600mm.

    I see the Panasonic FF L-mount camera as an alternative to my current Sony FF cameras/lenses, not as a replacement for my m43 cameras/lenses. That said, I'm happy enough with the images from my Sony A7(monochrome), A7II and A7rII cameras and Sony etc FE mount lenses, so it is very unlikely I will be changing FF mirrorless systems to the Panasonic L-mount (or any other FF mirrorless system).

    Gary
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    I have not been following all the back and forth on this thread....

    Gary
    You didn’t miss much... if I’m being 100% honest.

    I agree that the Lumix S isn’t a direct replacement for anything Micro 4/3. It’s a complimentary system for existing users that may happen to be interested in a pro FF system with high end lenses and weather sealed bodies. I’m very interested in it to if for no other reason to see if it’ll beat what Sony is doing and to see if it’ll allow me to consolidate everything under one brand largely. I already have Sony Pro Support and the Lumix Pro Support looks interesting as well.
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I agree. The group of L-mount users can quickly become very large here, with an interesting bunch of SL, CL, Panasonic and Sigma users. I'm already an ethusiast

    If one of these launches a couple of compact, full frame primes, I can even see myself considering a TL/2 or even a CL as a replacement for m4/3 (I wouldn't buy any of the APS-C lenses since they wouldn't be very useful on the S1). Actually, the CL would be a great backup for the S1
    I really don’t know how much an APS-C will add above your Micro 4/3. The lens selection for Micro 4/3 is hands down better and it’s really not even close. What’s currently available in Cropped L mount is borderline laughable with about 6 native lenses total being released. I’d personally stick with a Micro 4/3 where you have wide, normal, telephoto, and specialty zooms and primes available now. Also the bodies are quite a bit more advanced and capable though to be fair I hadn’t tested a Leica APS-C body newer than the TL2. I just don’t see them as being more capable than either the G9, GH, or OMD series...

    Also if money IS an object maybe hope for Panasonic or Sigma to release a cropped body and for Sigma to put out their Art and Contemporary APS-C lenses. I’m sure any of the cropped Leica’s will cost as much as the S1/S1R Cameras.
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I really don’t know how much an APS-C will add above your Micro 4/3.
    It's not a qustion of adding anything, but to avoid dealing with two different lens mounts. The announced Panasonic 24-105mm, a lens that I most likely will buy if I go for this system, would become a very usfeul 36-158mm on a Leica CL. Add a WA prime (that would normally be mounted on the CL, like the Zuiko 12mm is on my GM5 nowadays) for the cropped format, and the CL (or cheaper used TL) becomes an excellent backup for the S1. Add a couple of primes (50 and 135mm?), and I would have a complete travel setup.

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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    I have given up on the CL since long time as Leica is obviously not interested in IBIS and not even sensor shake to remove dust. And all the TL lenses are WITHOUT any IS. So this part is dead for me and no replacement for any of my m43 gear.

    BTW I am starting to see more clear now - I will keep all my Olympus m43 gear and probably add a FF mirrorless later next year (either Z7 or S1R as soon as we know more real details) - no hurry at all and this will do one thing right: it helps my bank account
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Peter, keeping m43 gear and adding a FF system makes a lot of sense to me.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I have given up on the CL since long time as Leica is obviously not interested in IBIS and not even sensor shake to remove dust. And all the TL lenses are WITHOUT any IS. So this part is dead for me and no replacement for any of my m43 gear.

    BTW I am starting to see more clear now - I will keep all my Olympus m43 gear and probably add a FF mirrorless later next year (either Z7 or S1R as soon as we know more real details) - no hurry at all and this will do one thing right: it helps my bank account
    That seems to make a lot of sense. You’ll have a better idea of what Panasonic and Sigma will release and probably have a good idea of the lens roadmap for both companies. Also you probably won’t get telephoto options that are as small when compared to the Micro 4/3 so it makes a lot of sense to keep the Micro 4/3 for a travel kit at least. Seems like the OMD + 12-100/4 would make a lot of sense as an all in one solution.
    Last edited by iiiNelson; 3 Days Ago at 07:23.
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Hat seems to make a lot of sense. You’ll have a better idea of what Panasonic and Sigma will release and probably have a good idea of the lens roadmap for both companies. Also you probably won’t get telephoto options that are as small when compared to the Micro 4/3 so it makes a lot of sense to keep the Micro 4/3 for a travel kit at least. Seems like the OMD + 12-100/4 would make a lot of sense as an all in one solution.
    Have thought about that EM1.2 and 12-100/4 as travel kit already. Waiting to get this lens as soon as there are some significant discounts.

    Waiting for the right FF system seems to be the right thing to do. Was a bit overwhelmed by how I liked the Z7 and I still find it a great camera (system) although giving this decision some more time is obviously good because of several reasons
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Have thought about that EM1.2 and 12-100/4 as travel kit already. Waiting to get this lens as soon as there are some significant discounts.

    Waiting for the right FF system seems to be the right thing to do. Was a bit overwhelmed by how I liked the Z7 and I still find it a great camera (system) although giving this decision some more time is obviously good because of several reasons
    Yeah there’s rumors that they’ll be launching a new Mirrorless Nikon next year as well. Apparently Nikon doesn’t view the Z6/7 as pro level cameras but they certainly priced them as such - especially the Z7. In any case waiting is probably a good option for anyone looking to potentially move across systems unless you’re certain which system to buy into or a deal is happening that’s too attractive to pass up.
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    On a side note I actually watched this video a couple days ago but it’s another hands-on.

    https://www.l-rumors.com/panasonic-s...type-hands-on/
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Having watched the hands-on video posted by Tre above this post...I have lost all interest in all 35 FF.
    For over 30 years, I have lugged the DSLRs. Not anymore. Whether it be Nikon, Fuji, Canon, Sony, or Leica.

    Peter, I am seriously thinking of getting the same MFT set-up as you ( the 14-100 ) or a body with a 12-40 and a 35-100mm lens. And be done with it.
    I am an amateur photog who travels. And the camera and lenses have to fit me on travel. Nothing else matters to me.

    I find the price a bit high for me currently..so again I shall wait.

    Best.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Have thought about that EM1.2 and 12-100/4 as travel kit already. Waiting to get this lens as soon as there are some significant discounts.

    Waiting for the right FF system seems to be the right thing to do. Was a bit overwhelmed by how I liked the Z7 and I still find it a great camera (system) although giving this decision some more time is obviously good because of several reasons
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post
    Having watched the hands-on video posted by Tre above this post...I have lost all interest in all 35 FF.
    For over 30 years, I have lugged the DSLRs. Not anymore. Whether it be Nikon, Fuji, Canon, Sony, or Leica.

    Peter, I am seriously thinking of getting the same MFT set-up as you ( the 14-100 ) or a body with a 12-40 and a 35-100mm lens. And be done with it.
    I am an amateur photog who travels. And the camera and lenses have to fit me on travel. Nothing else matters to me.

    I find the price a bit high for me currently..so again I shall wait.

    Best.
    When it comes to size:IQ it’s hard to beat Micro 4/3 or Fuji IMO.
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post
    ….For over 30 years, I have lugged the DSLRs. Not anymore. ….…….I am an amateur photog who travels. And the camera and lenses have to fit me on travel. Nothing else matters to me. I find the price a bit high for me currently..so again I shall wait.Best.
    /\ This.As a pro back in the era of film, I happily spent money on every new Nikon body (every 7 years or so???) and happily lugged around an enormous amount of equipment and its back-up (I was young and stronger back then).Now, I too am an amateur photographer who travels, and the camera and lenses have to fit me on travel. Nothing else matters to me (except a degree of quality for which M4/3 just about suffices). As for price - Despite not wanting to pay for being an early adopter, I always succumb. I try and find a deal, pay for what I want, USE the equipment and (try to) forget all about the money. I am overwhelmed with this raft of FF announcements and so for the first time I'm not even thinking about being tempted away from my simple M4/3 'travel' set-up.....….......…….. yet
    Ian.
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    I was just offered the Zuiko 8mm f/1.8 Fisheye for m4/3, more or less mint, for well under half of new price. I've been eyeing that lens for a while, so I just had to say yes I'm going to spend a lot of time with that lens and the 10-25mm f/1.7 before I consider upgrading to full frame. Then there's the PL 50-200...

    Don't believe anything I say or plan. I'll change my views tomorrow... or today.

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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I was just offered the Zuiko 8mm f/1.8 Fisheye for m4/3, more or less mint, for well under half of new price. I've been eyeing that lens for a while, so I just had to say yes I'm going to spend a lot of time with that lens and the 10-25mm f/1.7 before I consider upgrading to full frame. Then there's the PL 50-200...

    Don't believe anything I say or plan. I'll change my views tomorrow... or today.
    Congratulation on your new fisheye lens! Hope to see some photos soon!

    The 1.7/10-25 will sure be great but too expensive for me for a m43 lens.

    I will upgrade (build a second FF system) by then

    At least these are my plans .... not sure what high end m43 camera comes next from Olympus

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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Congratulation on your new fisheye lens! Hope to see some photos soon!

    The 1.7/10-25 will sure be great but too expensive for me for a m43 lens.

    I will upgrade (build a second FF system) by then

    At least these are my plans .... not sure what high end m43 camera comes next from Olympus
    I think the idea behind the 10-25/1.7 is that it’ll replace 5 primes for the price of 2-3 primes (well in my mind until the official pricing is announced). Now if it costs as much as buying the focal lengths separately it’ll have a more limited audience from having to sell existing lenses at a loss just to save bag space.
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I think the idea behind the 10-25/1.7 is that it’ll replace 5 primes for the price of 2-3 primes (well in my mind until the official pricing is announced). Now if it costs as much as buying the focal lengths separately it’ll have a more limited audience from having to sell existing lenses at a loss just to save bag space.
    It's not only about cost, but about not having to change lenses in situations where time or other circumstances make that problematic. In my case, industrial photography will be the typical application, with limited lighting, hostile environments and awkward work positions, sometimes suspended from a crane that costs a fortune per hour to rent.

    Lately, If solved this by using a 9-18 mm on one body and a 25 mm on another, but the 9-18 is f/4-5.6, too slow for indoor use. The 7-14 f/2.8 would give me 1-2 stops extra, but the gap to the 25mm would be too large unless I replace that prime with the 12-35 mm f/2.8 zoom. This new zoom solves all of this, and enables me to do the whole job using one body with one lens.

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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    It's not only about cost, but about not having to change lenses in situations where time or other circumstances make that problematic. In my case, industrial photography will be the typical application, with limited lighting, hostile environments and awkward work positions, sometimes suspended from a crane that costs a fortune per hour to rent.

    Lately, If solved this by using a 9-18 mm on one body and a 25 mm on another, but the 9-18 is f/4-5.6, too slow for indoor use. The 7-14 f/2.8 would give me 1-2 stops extra, but the gap to the 25mm would be too large unless I replace that prime with the 12-35 mm f/2.8 zoom. This new zoom solves all of this, and enables me to do the whole job using one body with one lens.
    True I understand allnof that. I’m speaking from a marketing standpoint where you have to convince people to give up their primes that often give you a half stop of light and one would need to sell/trade for the one lens kit
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I’m speaking from a marketing standpoint where you have to convince people to give up their primes that often give you a half stop of light and one would need to sell/trade for the one lens kit
    My experience is that people do not give up their primes to buy zooms. They just buy the zooms. The camera and lens side of photography is rarely a zero sum game. But your experience may be different.
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    My experience is that people do not give up their primes to buy zooms. They just buy the zooms. The camera and lens side of photography is rarely a zero sum game. But your experience may be different.
    I agree, and particularly when it comes to the rather compact mirrorless bodies, having access to the much more compact primes as well is sometimes important. I often leave home with just the GM5 and a 12 or 25 mm prime. That's more or less pocket size. The 10-25 mm will certainly not be pocket sized

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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    My experience is that people do not give up their primes to buy zooms. They just buy the zooms. ……………………………….. But your experience may be different.
    My personal experience is that when I was a pro, I didn't own a zoom;
    now I'm an amateur, I don't own a prime .
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    My experience is that people do not give up their primes to buy zooms. They just buy the zooms. The camera and lens side of photography is rarely a zero sum game. But your experience may be different.
    I guess it would depend on the person.

    I’m interested in the 10-25 because I sold all the primes I had for Micro 4/3 when I mostly divested from the system outside keeping a G1 and 14-45 zoom. This lens would fit my wide desires and speed needs for a midrange zoom that I could stick on a body and do most travel/street photos with. Now with my Sony kit I only own primes and rent zooms as wanted/needed when it makes sense to do so. I’m not opposed to zooms these days as they’ve come a long way from the old days where there was a significant optical compromise. These days that’s rarely the case and you mainly compromise aperture speed and DoF compared to primes of similar focal lengths.
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    I need some ventolin! Gasp!

    10-25/1.7. Bright and compact! It is mentioned. Somewhere.

    And of course it takes standard run of the mill 77mm filters.

    For the MFT system

    There I was thinking about small n light.

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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post
    I need some ventolin! Gasp!

    10-25/1.7. Bright and compact! It is mentioned. Somewhere.

    And of course it takes standard run of the mill 77mm filters.

    For the MFT system

    There I was thinking about small n light.
    Ah.... but I have some smaller lenses. The excellent Zuiko 12mm f/2 with real, physical focus ring and DOF scale is just 130g and uses 46mm filters, here on the just over 200g GM5:



    Here's the rest of my compact setup, also with the GM5, the 12-32mm f/3.5-5.6 on the camera at 70g and using 37mm filters, the 35-100mm f/4-5.6 at 135g using 46mm filters and the 25mm f/1.7 at 125g also with 46mm filters:



    I also have the 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 II, 110g and 46mm filters.

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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post
    I need some ventolin! Gasp!

    10-25/1.7. Bright and compact! It is mentioned. Somewhere.

    And of course it takes standard run of the mill 77mm filters.

    For the MFT system

    There I was thinking about small n light.
    I think the purpose of this lens really is to pair with the GH5 or the G9 which it would be more balanced on. As stated though there are smaller and lighter options available as well though like the excellent 15/1.7, 20/1.7, 25/1.4, 45/2.8 Macro, 12-35/2.8, or 12-60 (either version) for a general purpose all around lens.

    On a side note I prefer the 14-45 (if you can still find them) over the 14-42 that it was replaced by.
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I think the purpose of this lens really is to pair with the GH5 or the G9 which it would be more balanced on. As stated though there are smaller and lighter options available as well though like the excellent 15/1.7, 20/1.7, 25/1.4, 45/2.8 Macro, 12-35/2.8, or 12-60 (either version) for a general purpose all around lens.

    On a side note I prefer the 14-45 (if you can still find them) over the 14-42 that it was replaced by.
    I preferred the 14-45 too, but stupidly gave away mine with a GH1. The 14-42 II is fine though, and I got mine for free from somebody who bought the PL 12-60.

    The 12-35mm f/2.8 is very highly recommended. Possibly the best zoom lens that I have owned, and compares favourably with most primes.

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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I preferred the 14-45 too, but stupidly gave away mine with a GH1. The 14-42 II is fine though, and I got mine for free from somebody who bought the PL 12-60.

    The 12-35mm f/2.8 is very highly recommended. Possibly the best zoom lens that I have owned, and compares favourably with most primes.
    Yeah I did a quick search ol for the 14-45 and they’re going for about twice as much as the 14-42 but still in the ~$300 range new. I haven’t tried the newer 12-60’s but it’s a more useful focal range for sure so I’d look at them as well if I was butingninto the system.
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  30. #380
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

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  31. #381
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Interesting indeed and I am sure that m43 - if the involved companies play it right by designing small but powerful cameras again at reasonable prices compared to FF counterparts and continue interesting lens development - will have a long life! The advantages of this system, especially WRT size and IQ of longer lenses are enormous. Just do not make the parts too expensive.

    Found it might make sense to show at least a few photos showing the quality of m43 and what it can offer already today And we have still a long way to go with current silicon sensor technology and not even to speak about what comes after that with organic sensors

    EM1.2 with 2.8/40-150 PRO
    2018-10-12_0047.jpg by ptomsu, on Flickr

    2018-10-12_0062.jpg by ptomsu, on Flickr

    and with 4/300 PRO

    2018-10-14_0025.jpg by ptomsu, on Flickr

    2018-10-14_0037.jpg by ptomsu, on Flickr
    Life is an ever changing journey
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  32. #382
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    Re: Panasonic FF Mirrorless to be announced on September 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Interesting indeed and I am sure that m43 - if the involved companies play it right by designing small but powerful cameras again at reasonable prices compared to FF counterparts and continue interesting lens development - will have a long life! The advantages of this system, especially WRT size and IQ of longer lenses are enormous. Just do not make the parts too expensive.

    Found it might make sense to show at least a few photos showing the quality of m43 and what it can offer already today And we have still a long way to go with current silicon sensor technology and not even to speak about what comes after that with organic sensors

    EM1.2 with 2.8/40-150 PRO
    2018-10-12_0047.jpg by ptomsu, on Flickr

    2018-10-12_0062.jpg by ptomsu, on Flickr

    and with 4/300 PRO

    2018-10-14_0025.jpg by ptomsu, on Flickr

    2018-10-14_0037.jpg by ptomsu, on Flickr
    Yeah I don’t think anyone can deny the capability of most any modern camera to make great images in ideal conditions. Really the only reason to look at larger sensor sizes is when shooting in less than ideal conditions (for instance wedding or event photographers) and that’s where they make the most sense for me. Also for the super shallow depth of field as well when artistic looks are desired. That being said in “ISO 100-400 conditions” Micro 4/3 should be more than “good enough” for most needs. Yes I know they can shoot at higher ISO’s but it’s less than ideal compared with larger sensors. I personally feel their usefulness for color tops off around ISO 1600 or so and ISO 3200 for B&W but I realize this is subjective preference.

    I agree that less expensive Micro 4/3 will be needed for their continued success but the days of the $1500 FF (former flagship) are almost here and that presents a dilemma for those on the fence without any loyalty of what to choose. Obviously lens prices and size are a factor but people have become comfortable with the idea of adapting lenses though I always push native lenses UNLESS a person is looking for a specific “look.”
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