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New Olympus High End m43 Camera

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Olympus registered a new battery charger - maybe this is for the new high end m43 camera?

https://www.43rumors.com/olympus-registered-a-new-battery-charger-for-the-new-omd-camera/

Other than that I have some more rumor - this new camera should have features which will shake up the camera industry - said so by an Olympus rep some month ago at a user meeting I attended.

Might this be a new sensor with global shutter? I hope so, especially as Olympus was SOOoooo quiet at last Photokina. And I wish they can deliver whatever they have up their sleeves :cool:
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Olympus registered a new battery charger - maybe this is for the new high end m43 camera?

https://www.43rumors.com/olympus-registered-a-new-battery-charger-for-the-new-omd-camera/

Other than that I have some more rumor - this new camera should have features which will shake up the camera industry - said so by an Olympus rep some month ago at a user meeting I attended.

Might this be a new sensor with global shutter? I hope so, especially as Olympus was SOOoooo quiet at last Photokina. And I wish they can deliver whatever they have up their sleeves :cool:
I wouldn’t bet money on a global shutter. Sony makes their sensors still. A stacked sensor (like the A9) is a more realistic possibility and the next best thing currently available IMO. If we look at size differences there’s a chance Micro 4/3 could see even more improvements against rolling shutter (compared to the A9) and increased readout time potentially since there would theoretically be less data to readout.

I believe we are still at least 18 months from the realistic possibility of any global shutters... maybe longer unless the Panasonic S incorporates it somehow to account for the fastest shutter sync time they advertised which is where the biggest improvement with global shutters can be seen IMO.
 
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ptomsu

Workshop Member
I wouldn’t bet money on a global shutter. Sony makes their sensors still. A stacked sensor (like the A9) is a more realistic possibility and the next best thing currently available IMO. If we look at size differences there’s a chance Micro 4/3 could see even more improvements against rolling shutter (compared to the A9) and increased readout time potentially since there would theoretically be less data to readout.

I believe we are still at least 18 months from the realistic possibility of any global shutters... maybe longer unless the Panasonic S incorporates it somehow to account for the fastest shutter sync time they advertised which is where the biggest improvement with global shutters can be seen IMO.
While a stacked sensor like A9 would be one very tempting solution - and in the size of a m43 sensor this could offer "quasi global shutter" - I do not know where it is written that Sony has to be the manufacturer of this sensor. It could be as well that Olympus finally developed their own sensor that is manufactured by who else - Sony, Panasonic, or another company - hold that thought!

But even a new m43 sensor based on the A9 sensor technology would already offer features and speed lightyears ahead from what we find in today's most recent and modern mirrorless cameras - even toping the A9 maybe as the sensor is smaller and this new camera could simply use more processing power than available in today's cameras.

Anyway I would buy such a camera in a heartbeat and I think I am bot alone. Interesting times ahead in any case :cool:
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
While a stacked sensor like A9 would be one very tempting solution - and in the size of a m43 sensor this could offer "quasi global shutter" - I do not know where it is written that Sony has to be the manufacturer of this sensor. It could be as well that Olympus finally developed their own sensor that is manufactured by who else - Sony, Panasonic, or another company - hold that thought!

But even a new m43 sensor based on the A9 sensor technology would already offer features and speed lightyears ahead from what we find in today's most recent and modern mirrorless cameras - even toping the A9 maybe as the sensor is smaller and this new camera could simply use more processing power than available in today's cameras.

Anyway I would buy such a camera in a heartbeat and I think I am bot alone. Interesting times ahead in any case :cool:
Its not that it’s written so much that there’s a reality that Sony has been producing sensors for Olympus since they divested from the Panasonic made sensors in the early days of Micro 4/3 (along with Sony’s 20% cash infusion/investment into Olympus). Sony wasn’t listing Micro 4/3 sensors last week for just ANYONE without a potential customer in mind. What they listed last week had an extremely fast readout time (more than 2x faster readout - 60fps vs 27 FPS than the existing sensor with the same resolution) which is where I threw out the possibility of Olympus putting out a camera closer to the A9 with potential for a stacked sensor.

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/son...dium-format-full-frame-aps-c-and-mft-sensors/

While any company can “design” a sensor it has to be based upon current and available technology that the sensor producer (say Sony, TowerJazz, Samsung, Panasonic, etc.) can actually manufacture. I know that SOME companies are trying to come out and say they’re designing their own sensors lately but it’s not entirely true. What they’re doing is customizing existing sensors to their individual specs/desires... and probably designing their own microprocessors to interface with said sensor so in a sense yes they’re really are just customizing existing sensors moreso than designing them from the ground up.

In any case, it really doesn’t matter who does what but it’s no surprise that many people continue to go with Sony to manufacture because they allow customization to a manufacturers desires... and they have the ability to build to scale where companies generally don’t have lengthy delays in production. Supply/demand seems to be winning the choices to manufacture. Would I like to see others come up to Sony’s level? Sure but mostly to drive more competitive pricing versus for branding wars/rights.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
In the light of the currently (or soon) available FF mirrorless cameras I am VERY sceptical that a "very expensive" m43 model would sell. Even I am not sure I would spend more than €1800.- for a new high end m43 camera. There cannot be much more resolution, the current EM1.2 is already more than fast enough for me and even a high end EVF would not make me spend more. So actually I am kind of without any glue what to do :cry::confused: :angry:
 

Knorp

Well-known member
If I recall correctly the original price point of the E-M1 mark II was just short of € 2000 and already quite expensive.
So 'very expensive' already sounds like as 'too expensive'.
But hey - let's wait and see what the specs of this über-OMD will be ... :sleep:
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
If I recall correctly the original price point of the E-M1 mark II was just short of € 2000 and already quite expensive.
So 'very expensive' already sounds like as 'too expensive'.
But hey - let's wait and see what the specs of this über-OMD will be ... :sleep:
Yeah the original OMD was overpriced FOR ME. It is a great camera but I can’t see myself paying that much for a cropped sensor camera in this day and age. If they join up with say Sony or L-Mount them I can understand a FF OMD being “very expensive” but outside that I believe future Micro 4/3 “halo cameras” need to be closer to the $1200-1700 range going forward. We see how Fuji put out a much improved camera in the XT3 for less money (albeit it’s not manufactured in China instead of Japan to offset costs).
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Some more thoughts about this new camera ... interesting musings but if this becomes what we get I at least am a bit underwhelmed

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/...at-we-want-to-see-and-what-were-likely-to-get
Thanks for sharing.

Seems like a natural further refinement of the OMD EM1 than a super high end new camera. On paper it looks good but it remains to be seen if it’ll be able to approach FF cameras in practical higher ISO usage. To me it need to be comparable in performance in the ISO 3200-6400 range to even justify a $2000 price tag and I say that because we have competing cameras like the G9 selling for $1200 body only. Or the EM1-2 selling for $2000 with the 12-40/2.8 Pro lens.

Pricing will be everything with this camera if what they introduce isn’t a larger sensor camera and we are in a completely different landscape than even a year ago. A $2500 Micro 4/3 camera is in an extreme niche market and I don’t know that the name Olympus carries the same weight as it did say in the 1970’s or 1980’s. We are in the reality of a $2000 FF Sony, Nikon, Canon, and probably Panasonic too... and that’s not even talking about the last generation $1800 A7RII which may be the steal of a deal right now for someone wanting an entry into a high megapixel camera or a body to do IR or Monochrome conversion.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Thanks for sharing.

Seems like a natural further refinement of the OMD EM1 than a super high end new camera. On paper it looks good but it remains to be seen if it’ll be able to approach FF cameras in practical higher ISO usage. To me it need to be comparable in performance in the ISO 3200-6400 range to even justify a $2000 price tag and I say that because we have competing cameras like the G9 selling for $1200 body only. Or the EM1-2 selling for $2000 with the 12-40/2.8 Pro lens.

Pricing will be everything with this camera if what they introduce isn’t a larger sensor camera and we are in a completely different landscape than even a year ago. A $2500 Micro 4/3 camera is in an extreme niche market and I don’t know that the name Olympus carries the same weight as it did say in the 1970’s or 1980’s. We are in the reality of a $2000 FF Sony, Nikon, Canon, and probably Panasonic too... and that’s not even talking about the last generation $1800 A7RII which may be the steal of a deal right now for someone wanting an entry into a high megapixel camera or a body to do IR or Monochrome conversion.
As I already said it needs to have global shutter or similar, much better high ISO performance and some more MP to make me pay a price tag of >2000€. Otherwise I will not spend my money on this (for this system) any longer and as I have no FF lineup currently I am then free to jump on whatever ship crosses by and is attractive to me. :cool::toocool::thumbs:

Actually tis is an excellent position to be in.

PS: Yesterday I had another try of the Nikon Z7 and while I overall liked it very much especially with the available native lenses, I found that AF performance (especially speed) with adapted lenses is definitely not on par with native F mount cameras like D850 or D500. I tried the 80-400 which was fine but not where it performs on F mount and also clearly slower (and noisier) than what I am used from my Olympus PRO lenses )40-150 and 4/300) on the EM1.2, So I think it is better to wait for a native lens lineup for the Z mount anyway.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
As I already said it needs to have global shutter or similar, much better high ISO performance and some more MP to make me pay a price tag of >2000€. Otherwise I will not spend my money on this (for this system) any longer and as I have no FF lineup currently I am then free to jump on whatever ship crosses by and is attractive to me. :cool::toocool::thumbs:

Actually tis is an excellent position to be in.

PS: Yesterday I had another try of the Nikon Z7 and while I overall liked it very much especially with the available native lenses, I found that AF performance (especially speed) with adapted lenses is definitely not on par with native F mount cameras like D850 or D500. I tried the 80-400 which was fine but not where it performs on F mount and also clearly slower (and noisier) than what I am used from my Olympus PRO lenses )40-150 and 4/300) on the EM1.2, So I think it is better to wait for a native lens lineup for the Z mount anyway.
I think I’ll begin to care more about global shutter when I see how they perform in real world use. If it severely compromises DR or causes unpredictable color shifts then I’d probably continue to use focal plane shutters until global shutters mature.

Regarding the Nikon Z, I agree it’s best to wait for the native lens lineup to grow if you don’t have the newest Nikon E designated lenses (and/or Nikon is the way you’re leaning) which are said to perform the best on adapters. The Autofocus isn’t as good as Nikon DSLR’s IMO (through my limited experience with them) or even the best Mirrorless cameras on the market today but that may or may not matter depending on how/what you shoot... as reflected in many professional reviews but it doesn’t mean it’s worthless... just not class leading based on the marketing of Nikon that promised a D850 in a Mirrorless body. It’s not that at all.

When I tested it for myself I didn’t find the tracking to be great in lower light with somewhat erratic motions (even with native lenses) but some of it may have been user error so I won’t rule out 100% that it was the camera. Maybe they can improve some things through firmware but the question of firmware updates is going to always be “but by how much?” Some updates simply require new hardware to function as desired. You may wind up liking the Nikon Z (or the next generation one) once more lenses are released and Nikon gets a better hang of making Mirrorless cameras.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Some more thoughts about this new camera ... interesting musings but if this becomes what we get I at least am a bit underwhelmed

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/...at-we-want-to-see-and-what-were-likely-to-get
It's rather simple really:
They need to offer more or less everything that Panasonic offers in the GH5 plus G9. In addition, they need a sensor with faster readout times and in my view they need improved ergonomics. They will obviously improve AF, like everybody else. I have a feeling that this will not be an upgrade that most amateurs will feel is worth the money. It will be upgrades that are useful and even vital for working photographers. I hope I'm right.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
It's rather simple really:
They need to offer more or less everything that Panasonic offers in the GH5 plus G9. In addition, they need a sensor with faster readout times and in my view they need improved ergonomics. They will obviously improve AF, like everybody else. I have a feeling that this will not be an upgrade that most amateurs will feel is worth the money. It will be upgrades that are useful and even vital for working photographers. I hope I'm right.
I agree that for existing Olympus users this is potentially a worthwhile upgrade but I also feel like price will dictate the commercial success. I compare it to all the improvements seen in the XT3 over the XT2 (which are many) but the “odd” thing Fuji did was introduce the camera at a lower price to make it even more attractive with all the new FF Mirrorless cameras out now in the $2k range.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I agree that for existing Olympus users this is potentially a worthwhile upgrade but I also feel like price will dictate the commercial success. I compare it to all the improvements seen in the XT3 over the XT2 (which are many) but the “odd” thing Fuji did was introduce the camera at a lower price to make it even more attractive with all the new FF Mirrorless cameras out now in the $2k range.
Rumors also claim that this new Olympus will outperform the X-T3. How this can happen if it does not offer the same resolution I do not understand.

As a loyal long year Olympus user I am really scared and on the fence. Not willing to spend more than €2000.- on any upgrade that does not really leapfrog cameras like the X-T3. And I do not care about all that high-res shooting.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Rumors also claim that this new Olympus will outperform the X-T3. How this can happen if it does not offer the same resolution I do not understand.

As a loyal long year Olympus user I am really scared and on the fence. Not willing to spend more than €2000.- on any upgrade that does not really leapfrog cameras like the X-T3. And I do not care about all that high-res shooting.
If I’m being objective the XT3 approaches and/or exceeds the capability of many FF cameras now... maybe not the very best of them but I’d say it compares neck and neck to many Canon cameras now with regard to resolution, video recording ability, and Autofocus performance with stills. I don’t know Olympus will surpass that but it’s fair to expect that maybe they can meet Fuji where they are... but I wholeheartedly agree that $2000 may be “too much” for those not currently in the Olympus system... but if the high resolution shooting can be done handheld that would be a technical feat.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Rumors also claim that this new Olympus will outperform the X-T3. How this can happen if it does not offer the same resolution I do not understand.

As a loyal long year Olympus user I am really scared and on the fence. Not willing to spend more than €2000.- on any upgrade that does not really leapfrog cameras like the X-T3. And I do not care about all that high-res shooting.
The key here is not resolution, but video, AF, DR and high ISO. My guess is that it will get dual base ISO to handle the ISO part. That seems to be a success with the GH5s. Remember also that the X-T3 lacks IBIS, which has always been Olympus' strong card, and the more compact lenses.

The real competitor for Olympus will be the X-H2, and I think Fuji will launch that camera as soon as possible, since the X-T3 has probably more or less killed the X-H1.

The attitude of Olympus is important to remember. They don't stay with the m4/3 format because they are not able to do anything bigger. They do it because "small" i an Olympus tradition and because they honestly believe that it's the format that serves many photographers the best. If you pixel peep some of the photos taken by professionals who use Olympus gear for a living, you'll have difficulties explaining in what way a "full frame" camera would do a better job. And some of the lenses, like the 75mm f/1.8 and the 40-150mm f/2.8 simple don't have a match in other systems. If the PL 10-25mm f/1.7 delivers in the same manner, it's hard for me to see any reason whatsoever why I should consider another system or sensor size.

PL 200/2.8 and Zuiko 300/4? Nobody else can offer that kind of quality in anything near the size, with the possible exception of the Nikkor 300/4 PF on a D500.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
The key here is not resolution, but video, AF, DR and high ISO. My guess is that it will get dual base ISO to handle the ISO part. That seems to be a success with the GH5s. Remember also that the X-T3 lacks IBIS, which has always been Olympus' strong card, and the more compact lenses.

The real competitor for Olympus will be the X-H2, and I think Fuji will launch that camera as soon as possible, since the X-T3 has probably more or less killed the X-H1.

The attitude of Olympus is important to remember. They don't stay with the m4/3 format because they are not able to do anything bigger. They do it because "small" i an Olympus tradition and because they honestly believe that it's the format that serves many photographers the best. If you pixel peep some of the photos taken by professionals who use Olympus gear for a living, you'll have difficulties explaining in what way a "full frame" camera would do a better job. And some of the lenses, like the 75mm f/1.8 and the 40-150mm f/2.8 simple don't have a match in other systems. If the PL 10-25mm f/1.7 delivers in the same manner, it's hard for me to see any reason whatsoever why I should consider another system or sensor size.
I hear you and this is also reflected by latest interviews - see link below

https://photofocus.com/2018/10/30/e...yMyY1eCTZrspLlf6X5gK3VTHx5lb_RztnGF4ybpEsQ3zA

I am not keen about more MP but I am keen about all the other features you mentioned of course. Although a few more MP would be always nice IMHO ...

PS: I fully agree WRT the Fuji X-H2 but for me and others fully invested in m43 this will not be the trigger to switch. Of course if one starts from the scratch then maybe as soon as the X-H2 is available I would choose Fuji. But having m43 already I would only move to FF if I leave.

BTW - a thread is nothing worth without pictures - this one taken today with EM1.2 and 4/300 PRO plus TC1.4 - of course handheld

2018-10-30_0020.jpg by ptomsu, on Flickr
 
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