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G90... very promissing

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
This looks very promising:

- It's rumoured to have the sensor from G9
- They have moved the mic port above the articulated LCD

The G85 is already a very competent camera, and if they have added 120 fps 1080p slo-mo and a hi-res mode, this will be a very tempting alternative for me.

 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
This looks very promising:

- It's rumoured to have the sensor from G9
- They have moved the mic port above the articulated LCD

The G85 is already a very competent camera, and if they have added 120 fps 1080p slo-mo and a hi-res mode, this will be a very tempting alternative for me.

Im hoping on the G10 that they go with the same screen setup as the S1 and S1R... might even pick one up if they do. I’ve gotten to a point of where I prefer tilting screens over fully articulating ones. If this one is priced correctly it’ll do well.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Im hoping on the G10 that they go with the same screen setup as the S1 and S1R... might even pick one up if they do. I’ve gotten to a point of where I prefer tilting screens over fully articulating ones. If this one is priced correctly it’ll do well.
Ummm... the G10 has (had) a fixed screen :ROTFL:

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcg10/2

On a more serious note:
Panasonic's MFT customer base, me included, is probably very happy with the fully articulated LCD. It's one of the reasons why I buy Panasonic cameras, and one of the reasons why I would consider Canon an option if I were to go full frame. With the new placement of the mic plug, the functionality has improved further.

Interestingly, one of the features that I like the most with the svivel LCD is that it can be turned in towards the camera body. That way, it's fully protected and all functions are automatically moved to the EVF. Once I swing the LCD out, all functionality moves to the screen. In addition, it has the advantage of enabling any viewing angle, something that has saved me, or at least made life much easier, on many occasions.

In other words, I don't think Panasonic will leave this concept for certain models. They would lose one of the features that make them stand out.

Edit: Now I see that they have kept the Playback button where it belongs, right next to my right thumb. I think they made this camera for me :grin: :ROTFL:
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Ummm... the G10 has (had) a fixed screen :ROTFL:

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcg10/2

On a more serious note:
Panasonic's MFT customer base, me included, is probably very happy with the fully articulated LCD. It's one of the reasons why I buy Panasonic cameras, and one of the reasons why I would consider Canon an option if I were to go full frame. With the new placement of the mic plug, the functionality has improved further.

Interestingly, one of the features that I like the most with the svivel LCD is that it can be turned in towards the camera body. That way, it's fully protected and all functions are automatically moved to the EVF. Once I swing the LCD out, all functionality moves to the screen. In addition, it has the advantage of enabling any viewing angle, something that has saved me, or at least made life much easier, on many occasions.

In other words, I don't think Panasonic will leave this concept for certain models. They would lose one of the features that make them stand out.

Edit: Now I see that they have kept the Playback button where it belongs, right next to my right thumb. I think they made this camera for me :grin: :ROTFL:
Im referring to the G9 successor... whatever it may be called.

I used to be all about the fully articulating screen screen but I can get every angle I need from a 3 way tilt. The only advantage I can see in fully articulating is if one needs to vlog or take selfies. I use protective covers on all my screens so I don’t worry about scratches really.

Regarding the EOS R... meh... the Touch Bar and the slippery feeling of the grip in itself were deal breakers for me. The screen I COULD live with if everything else was “perfect” but it’s not.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
WRT screen - I think I meanwhile prefer the tilting screen as implemented in the Fuji's and Panasonic S1/S1R. I can tilt it to any direction I need. The fully articulating screen of my EM1.2 is rather cumbersome to tilt to the right angle for most purposes and rather is in the way of easy operation for my needs.

I almost never need to see myself in the screen and thanks God I am NO YOU TUBER :cool: And please - stop believing what you tubers try to tell you!

So for my needs fully articulating can easily go away!
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
WRT screen - I think I meanwhile prefer the tilting screen as implemented in the Fuji's and Panasonic S1/S1R. I can tilt it to any direction I need. The fully articulating screen of my EM1.2 is rather cumbersome to tilt to the right angle for most purposes and rather is in the way of easy operation for my needs.

I almost never need to see myself in the screen and thanks God I am NO YOU TUBER :cool: And please - stop believing what you tubers try to tell you!

So for my needs fully articulating can easily go away!
In fairness I get why the “video first” community is in favor of fully articulating screens. I don’t want to place a negative connotation on all Youtube content creators. Many are very informative and provide reasonably helpful content when absorbed with a consensus of thoughts. No matter the opinion thought I still advise people to verify for themselves.

I don’t believe fully articulating screens are the preference for most photographers for a good reason. Even still a great many of them love them for a variety of reasons. I preferred them to static screens and if I never had a tilting screen this would still be my opinion likely. Sony’s solution for the A99/A77 series is perhaps the best solution in that it could tilt and turn any way you wanted it to. I think the Fuji/Panasonic LUMIX S options are an extremely close second. I could happily live with either.

I also believe that an external monitor/recorder solves the problem and they can be rather affordable and easier to see for framing due to having a larger screen.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
For me a tilting screen like Fuji (or Sony) has evolved to be my preferred solution. Not that I could not work with a fully articulating screen and it is better than a fixed screen but it definitely is not the best solve all issues screen solution. I meanwhile understand why vendors are not fully jumping on these fully articulating screens.

Aside from that what I really hate meanwhile about some you tubers is when they claim in their reviews as one of the first things good about a camera being the fully articulating screen. This is right for their application as you tubers, but that's it. I meanwhile skip looking at such reviews as soon as it gets to this point as one of the most important features to have and if repeated I even unsubscribe from such silly channels. I hope that makes things clear. My time is simply too precious to watch such general nonsense :thumbdown:
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
For me a tilting screen like Fuji (or Sony) has evolved to be my preferred solution. Not that I could not work with a fully articulating screen and it is better than a fixed screen but it definitely is not the best solve all issues screen solution. I meanwhile understand why vendors are not fully jumping on these fully articulating screens.

Aside from that what I really hate meanwhile about some you tubers is when they claim in their reviews as one of the first things good about a camera being the fully articulating screen. This is right for their application as you tubers, but that's it. I meanwhile skip looking at such reviews as soon as it gets to this point as one of the most important features to have and if repeated I even unsubscribe from such silly channels. I hope that makes things clear. My time is simply too precious to watch such general nonsense :thumbdown:
No I get what you mean and I generally agree with you about the ones that beat that horse to death, resurrect it, and then beat it again.

I think it comes down to bringing up points in measured ways of whom a product might suit and bringing up workarounds. I think a big reason for this is that many videographers are jumping into system cameras as a reasonably affordable alternative to cinema cameras that are prohibitively expensive. I do believe that the general photography market is shrinking and people are doing a mix of both photo and video out of necessity. I don’t know many reasonably successful wedding photographers locally that don’t dabble into video production. Now that doesn’t necessarily require a fully articulating screen and I’d argue that they may get in the way of your accessory cables.

In either case we are largely largely in agreement. I just don’t like to categorize ALL Youtube content creators as equal or monolithic amateurs.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Jorgen - In my mind I seem to think that you say that about almost every new camera announced :D:rolleyes::p:grin:;)
Oh bugger... :wtf: Maybe that explains why there are so many cameras here then :ROTFL:

You are right of course, and my fascination for these devices, plus the never ending hunt for an ideal solution, never stops. However, there's some system to the madness. I tend to like cameras that satisfy one or more key criteria, such as:

- Simplicity (hard to find nowadays)
- Solid build quality
- Good ergonomics
- Reasonable price
- Compact size
- Access to great lenses

Notice what is missing? Great image quality. It's missing because most or all camera bodies these days are capable of delivering great image quality... and so is Tri-X. The stumbling stones are lenses, ergonomics (including the viewfinder) and the photographer.

The hunt for "the bee's knees" is still on. The E-M1X would be nice of course, but it's expensive. I did buy the G85 a couple of years ago, and was very happy with the performance compared to the GX8 of which I have two (better shutter, better IS, better grip, somewhat better video), but sold it for different reasons. A few of my friends now use G85 bodies very successfully due to my advice, not because I'm a good advisor, but because it's a very good camera, and very simple to use.

With this new model, Panasonic seems to have improved the camera in some of the areas that were lacking. It will be interesting to see the specs, but what I hope for is a kind of "Mini GH5/G9" all in one and at a much lower price point.

The design and ergonomics of the G90 dates all the way back to the G1/GH1, and it works very well. It's the "whatyouseeiswhatyouget" camera. More or less all vital functions are available by switches and dials. No menu diving. Like my old OM-1, it's a camera that can be used on a relatively advanced level without ever opening the user manual. That's simplicity. For an old man who struggles sorting out the buttons on the remote key for the car, that's pretty great. Build quality is much better than the GH1, and since my nearly 10 year old GH1 still works flawlessly, I would expect this camera to work for a while too.

I've imposed a ban on camera acquisitions until the end of this year (I need a new car, one that works every day and one that uses less energy than the old Toyota), but I might go for one of these in addition to my GX8 bodies, not now, but then.

Full frame, like the Canon RP? I like it a lot, but when I ask myself the vital questions "Why do you need full frame and what would it cost you?", the choice is simple. The lenses that would be my reasons to "upgrade" are so expensive and so large/heavy that the plan kills itself again and again. I'm not getting younger, and there is wine to be enjoyed and kites to be flown.

Edit:
There's one vital difference between the dials and switches on this camera compared to the "retro" bodies from Fuji and a couple of other camera manufacturers. While the retro design of Fuji dictates dials for shutter speed, exposure compensation etc., Panasonic has (mostly) relegated those functions to the command wheels, like they are on most modern cameras. The switches on the G90 are for AF mode, burst mode and shooting mode. To me, that makes a lot of sense, and particularly the AF mode switch on Panasonic bodies has a position and simplicity that is perfect for my style of shooting. Others will prefer other solutions, but I'm very happy with the solutions that Panasonic has chosen.

As for the articulated LCD, that's not even up for discussion in my case. It's a permanent love affair :)
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
As for the articulated LCD, that's not even up for discussion in my case. It's a permanent love affair :)
Like with the portrait below, taken yesterday afternoon at a fisherman's shack on stilts above the sea in Maasim, the Philippines, while sitting next to the girl, and there was nowhere else to sit or stand, since the 3 sq.m. balcony was packed with people. The portrait wouldn't exist without a fully articulated LCD in "reverse/selfie" mode.

GX8 with PL 45mm f/2.8 Macro @ f/3.2



Do I have to take photos under circumstances like that? Clearly not, but I do enjoy taking them and the sometimes memorable photos that I get that way.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Actually while thinking about all these new to be announced m43 models from whatever manufacturer - who really needs more of the same crap without any substantial improvements like

24MP BSI sensor
5.7MP EVF with at least 120fps refresh rates
much better battery life
4k/60p internal
not larger as a GH5, G9 or Olympus EM1.2
price max. around $1500.-


no-one really needs another m43 camera except for these features :thumbs:
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Actually while thinking about all these new to be announced m43 models from whatever manufacturer - who really needs more of the same crap without any substantial improvements like

24MP BSI sensor
5.7MP EVF with at least 120fps refresh rates
much better battery life
4k/60p internal
not larger as a GH5, G9 or Olympus EM1.2
price max. around $1500.-


no-one really needs another m43 camera except for these features :thumbs:
Well the G9 fits MOST of your list... the XT3 fits almost all of your list except the EVF and battery life.

BSI sensor doesn’t guarantee better lowlight performance. It’s all in how the manufacturer implements it. By most accounts the lowlight performance of the XT2 is slightly better than the XT3 that has a BSI sensor.

The new EVF probably has a “ridiculous” power draw. Most of the S1/S1R reports are saying that a person needs 2 batteries per body for a full day of shooting something like a wedding (~2,000 shots) with the power management at default settings. They’re also reporting 1.5-2 hrs of run time when recording 4K video. This isn’t a huge issue for me personally but it is something to think about for those expecting the huge battery to last “forever.” It doesn’t and a lot of that is likely due to all of the tech going on inside.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Actually while thinking about all these new to be announced m43 models from whatever manufacturer - who really needs more of the same crap without any substantial improvements like

24MP BSI sensor
5.7MP EVF with at least 120fps refresh rates
much better battery life
4k/60p internal
not larger as a GH5, G9 or Olympus EM1.2
price max. around $1500.-


no-one really needs another m43 camera except for these features :thumbs:
What you are describing is a G9 with 20% more pixels, which is insignificant, and an even better viewfinder. The G90 is already being described as a GH5 Light (like the G85 was described as a GH4.5), and will probably cost $1,000-1,100. These are cameras with more focus on video than stills, and I doubt that hi-res mode will be included. I wouldn't be surprised if it offers 4K/60p and 1080p/120 though. I wouldn't mind if it uses the same batteries as the G85/GX8, since I have a bunch of them. It would be even better if it could take two of them in the grip and one in the body, Fuji style.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Well, happened again to me - so here come some more final thoughts about the new G90/G95

I am actually quite happy by where I see m43 in general and Panasonic specifically moving especially with that latest introduction of their G90/G95 (kit).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui3qje1GmVQ&feature=em-uploademail

This is by no means a camera I would have wanted as described before, but it shows that Panasonic is still committed to m43 and bringing maybe even better cameras and kits to the market at even lower prizes in the future. Not that I will run and buy this camera immediately, but for the prize even at introduction this kit is VERY compelling for most hybrid shooters who want/need compact and reasonably prized gear.

At least with hat introduction and the new m43 alliance member Sharp the future for m43 looks not so black anymore :thumbup:

PS: while following all these FF mirrorless system introductions over the last 6 months or so, I became interested in FF again, but at the same time I became even more frustrated about size, weight and prize of most options - especially prize if you really want high quality. that means seeing m43 survive and prosper is pretty much important for me meanwhile - I had forgotten about that - and to be honest I am no longer up to schlepping what else FF (mirrorless) gear around in the future - period. That time is non, at least for me. For studio and special occasions yes, but for the rest (that is maybe 98 percent in my case) definitely not more that m43. In that regard this G90/G95 (kit) really starts shining!
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
This is more or less what I had hoped for, a budget friendly G9/GH5 hybrid. The only thing that can make it problematic is that it's a bit more expensive than the G85, while the G9 has fallen in price. We'll see...
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
This is more or less what I had hoped for, a budget friendly G9/GH5 hybrid. The only thing that can make it problematic is that it's a bit more expensive than the G85, while the G9 has fallen in price. We'll see...
I think that’s the key. The price is awfully close to the G9 and I think given the choice I’d just go with the G9. I assume Panasonic is hoping for the same as well. In any case it’s a good addition and I didn’t need reassurances that Panasonic wasn’t abandoning Micro 4/3. I’ve seen many of their reps direct people to Micro 4/3 when they’ve complained about various aspects of the LUMIX S.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Well, happened again to me - so here come some more final thoughts about the new G90/G95

I am actually quite happy by where I see m43 in general and Panasonic specifically moving especially with that latest introduction of their G90/G95 (kit).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui3qje1GmVQ&feature=em-uploademail

This is by no means a camera I would have wanted as described before, but it shows that Panasonic is still committed to m43 and bringing maybe even better cameras and kits to the market at even lower prizes in the future. Not that I will run and buy this camera immediately, but for the prize even at introduction this kit is VERY compelling for most hybrid shooters who want/need compact and reasonably prized gear.

At least with hat introduction and the new m43 alliance member Sharp the future for m43 looks not so black anymore :thumbup:

PS: while following all these FF mirrorless system introductions over the last 6 months or so, I became interested in FF again, but at the same time I became even more frustrated about size, weight and prize of most options - especially prize if you really want high quality. that means seeing m43 survive and prosper is pretty much important for me meanwhile - I had forgotten about that - and to be honest I am no longer up to schlepping what else FF (mirrorless) gear around in the future - period. That time is non, at least for me. For studio and special occasions yes, but for the rest (that is maybe 98 percent in my case) definitely not more that m43. In that regard this G90/G95 (kit) really starts shining!
In reality the LUMIX S isn’t as large as some people make it out to be. It’s slightly larger than the G9. Some of the lenses appear larger due to their front elements and most product shots display them with their hoods on. In reality the 70-200 is somewhat compact for its size/performance and the 24-105 is comparable in size to other lenses of that focal range. The 50 is on the larger size but it also has the largest aspherical elements in a system camera to date. Sometimes I feel for the camera companies, attempting to make a product that satisfies most in the age of the internet but that’s what they get paid for as well.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
This is more or less what I had hoped for, a budget friendly G9/GH5 hybrid. The only thing that can make it problematic is that it's a bit more expensive than the G85, while the G9 has fallen in price. We'll see...
This is what I was also thinking - after I found out that the G90 applies a crop when using 4k - the G9 stays full m43 frame. And also the G9 has lots of other great advantages for a very competitive price .....

might I go Panasonic via the G9 route ????
 
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