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Thread: G90... very promissing

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    G90... very promissing

    This looks very promising:

    - It's rumoured to have the sensor from G9
    - They have moved the mic port above the articulated LCD

    The G85 is already a very competent camera, and if they have added 120 fps 1080p slo-mo and a hi-res mode, this will be a very tempting alternative for me.


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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    This looks very promising:

    - It's rumoured to have the sensor from G9
    - They have moved the mic port above the articulated LCD

    The G85 is already a very competent camera, and if they have added 120 fps 1080p slo-mo and a hi-res mode, this will be a very tempting alternative for me.

    Im hoping on the G10 that they go with the same screen setup as the S1 and S1R... might even pick one up if they do. Iíve gotten to a point of where I prefer tilting screens over fully articulating ones. If this one is priced correctly itíll do well.
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Im hoping on the G10 that they go with the same screen setup as the S1 and S1R... might even pick one up if they do. I’ve gotten to a point of where I prefer tilting screens over fully articulating ones. If this one is priced correctly it’ll do well.
    Ummm... the G10 has (had) a fixed screen

    https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcg10/2

    On a more serious note:
    Panasonic's MFT customer base, me included, is probably very happy with the fully articulated LCD. It's one of the reasons why I buy Panasonic cameras, and one of the reasons why I would consider Canon an option if I were to go full frame. With the new placement of the mic plug, the functionality has improved further.

    Interestingly, one of the features that I like the most with the svivel LCD is that it can be turned in towards the camera body. That way, it's fully protected and all functions are automatically moved to the EVF. Once I swing the LCD out, all functionality moves to the screen. In addition, it has the advantage of enabling any viewing angle, something that has saved me, or at least made life much easier, on many occasions.

    In other words, I don't think Panasonic will leave this concept for certain models. They would lose one of the features that make them stand out.

    Edit: Now I see that they have kept the Playback button where it belongs, right next to my right thumb. I think they made this camera for me

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Ummm... the G10 has (had) a fixed screen

    https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcg10/2

    On a more serious note:
    Panasonic's MFT customer base, me included, is probably very happy with the fully articulated LCD. It's one of the reasons why I buy Panasonic cameras, and one of the reasons why I would consider Canon an option if I were to go full frame. With the new placement of the mic plug, the functionality has improved further.

    Interestingly, one of the features that I like the most with the svivel LCD is that it can be turned in towards the camera body. That way, it's fully protected and all functions are automatically moved to the EVF. Once I swing the LCD out, all functionality moves to the screen. In addition, it has the advantage of enabling any viewing angle, something that has saved me, or at least made life much easier, on many occasions.

    In other words, I don't think Panasonic will leave this concept for certain models. They would lose one of the features that make them stand out.

    Edit: Now I see that they have kept the Playback button where it belongs, right next to my right thumb. I think they made this camera for me
    Im referring to the G9 successor... whatever it may be called.

    I used to be all about the fully articulating screen screen but I can get every angle I need from a 3 way tilt. The only advantage I can see in fully articulating is if one needs to vlog or take selfies. I use protective covers on all my screens so I donít worry about scratches really.

    Regarding the EOS R... meh... the Touch Bar and the slippery feeling of the grip in itself were deal breakers for me. The screen I COULD live with if everything else was ďperfectĒ but itís not.
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    WRT screen - I think I meanwhile prefer the tilting screen as implemented in the Fuji's and Panasonic S1/S1R. I can tilt it to any direction I need. The fully articulating screen of my EM1.2 is rather cumbersome to tilt to the right angle for most purposes and rather is in the way of easy operation for my needs.

    I almost never need to see myself in the screen and thanks God I am NO YOU TUBER And please - stop believing what you tubers try to tell you!

    So for my needs fully articulating can easily go away!

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    WRT screen - I think I meanwhile prefer the tilting screen as implemented in the Fuji's and Panasonic S1/S1R. I can tilt it to any direction I need. The fully articulating screen of my EM1.2 is rather cumbersome to tilt to the right angle for most purposes and rather is in the way of easy operation for my needs.

    I almost never need to see myself in the screen and thanks God I am NO YOU TUBER And please - stop believing what you tubers try to tell you!

    So for my needs fully articulating can easily go away!
    In fairness I get why the “video first” community is in favor of fully articulating screens. I don’t want to place a negative connotation on all Youtube content creators. Many are very informative and provide reasonably helpful content when absorbed with a consensus of thoughts. No matter the opinion thought I still advise people to verify for themselves.

    I don’t believe fully articulating screens are the preference for most photographers for a good reason. Even still a great many of them love them for a variety of reasons. I preferred them to static screens and if I never had a tilting screen this would still be my opinion likely. Sony’s solution for the A99/A77 series is perhaps the best solution in that it could tilt and turn any way you wanted it to. I think the Fuji/Panasonic LUMIX S options are an extremely close second. I could happily live with either.

    I also believe that an external monitor/recorder solves the problem and they can be rather affordable and easier to see for framing due to having a larger screen.
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    For me a tilting screen like Fuji (or Sony) has evolved to be my preferred solution. Not that I could not work with a fully articulating screen and it is better than a fixed screen but it definitely is not the best solve all issues screen solution. I meanwhile understand why vendors are not fully jumping on these fully articulating screens.

    Aside from that what I really hate meanwhile about some you tubers is when they claim in their reviews as one of the first things good about a camera being the fully articulating screen. This is right for their application as you tubers, but that's it. I meanwhile skip looking at such reviews as soon as it gets to this point as one of the most important features to have and if repeated I even unsubscribe from such silly channels. I hope that makes things clear. My time is simply too precious to watch such general nonsense
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    This looks very promising:

    ........ this will be a very tempting alternative for me.
    Jorgen - In my mind I seem to think that you say that about almost every new camera announced
    Ian.
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Elderly View Post
    Jorgen - In my mind I seem to think that you say that about almost every new camera announced
    He sort of does about many of them...
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    For me a tilting screen like Fuji (or Sony) has evolved to be my preferred solution. Not that I could not work with a fully articulating screen and it is better than a fixed screen but it definitely is not the best solve all issues screen solution. I meanwhile understand why vendors are not fully jumping on these fully articulating screens.

    Aside from that what I really hate meanwhile about some you tubers is when they claim in their reviews as one of the first things good about a camera being the fully articulating screen. This is right for their application as you tubers, but that's it. I meanwhile skip looking at such reviews as soon as it gets to this point as one of the most important features to have and if repeated I even unsubscribe from such silly channels. I hope that makes things clear. My time is simply too precious to watch such general nonsense
    No I get what you mean and I generally agree with you about the ones that beat that horse to death, resurrect it, and then beat it again.

    I think it comes down to bringing up points in measured ways of whom a product might suit and bringing up workarounds. I think a big reason for this is that many videographers are jumping into system cameras as a reasonably affordable alternative to cinema cameras that are prohibitively expensive. I do believe that the general photography market is shrinking and people are doing a mix of both photo and video out of necessity. I donít know many reasonably successful wedding photographers locally that donít dabble into video production. Now that doesnít necessarily require a fully articulating screen and Iíd argue that they may get in the way of your accessory cables.

    In either case we are largely largely in agreement. I just donít like to categorize ALL Youtube content creators as equal or monolithic amateurs.
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Elderly View Post
    Jorgen - In my mind I seem to think that you say that about almost every new camera announced
    Oh bugger... Maybe that explains why there are so many cameras here then

    You are right of course, and my fascination for these devices, plus the never ending hunt for an ideal solution, never stops. However, there's some system to the madness. I tend to like cameras that satisfy one or more key criteria, such as:

    - Simplicity (hard to find nowadays)
    - Solid build quality
    - Good ergonomics
    - Reasonable price
    - Compact size
    - Access to great lenses

    Notice what is missing? Great image quality. It's missing because most or all camera bodies these days are capable of delivering great image quality... and so is Tri-X. The stumbling stones are lenses, ergonomics (including the viewfinder) and the photographer.

    The hunt for "the bee's knees" is still on. The E-M1X would be nice of course, but it's expensive. I did buy the G85 a couple of years ago, and was very happy with the performance compared to the GX8 of which I have two (better shutter, better IS, better grip, somewhat better video), but sold it for different reasons. A few of my friends now use G85 bodies very successfully due to my advice, not because I'm a good advisor, but because it's a very good camera, and very simple to use.

    With this new model, Panasonic seems to have improved the camera in some of the areas that were lacking. It will be interesting to see the specs, but what I hope for is a kind of "Mini GH5/G9" all in one and at a much lower price point.

    The design and ergonomics of the G90 dates all the way back to the G1/GH1, and it works very well. It's the "whatyouseeiswhatyouget" camera. More or less all vital functions are available by switches and dials. No menu diving. Like my old OM-1, it's a camera that can be used on a relatively advanced level without ever opening the user manual. That's simplicity. For an old man who struggles sorting out the buttons on the remote key for the car, that's pretty great. Build quality is much better than the GH1, and since my nearly 10 year old GH1 still works flawlessly, I would expect this camera to work for a while too.

    I've imposed a ban on camera acquisitions until the end of this year (I need a new car, one that works every day and one that uses less energy than the old Toyota), but I might go for one of these in addition to my GX8 bodies, not now, but then.

    Full frame, like the Canon RP? I like it a lot, but when I ask myself the vital questions "Why do you need full frame and what would it cost you?", the choice is simple. The lenses that would be my reasons to "upgrade" are so expensive and so large/heavy that the plan kills itself again and again. I'm not getting younger, and there is wine to be enjoyed and kites to be flown.

    Edit:
    There's one vital difference between the dials and switches on this camera compared to the "retro" bodies from Fuji and a couple of other camera manufacturers. While the retro design of Fuji dictates dials for shutter speed, exposure compensation etc., Panasonic has (mostly) relegated those functions to the command wheels, like they are on most modern cameras. The switches on the G90 are for AF mode, burst mode and shooting mode. To me, that makes a lot of sense, and particularly the AF mode switch on Panasonic bodies has a position and simplicity that is perfect for my style of shooting. Others will prefer other solutions, but I'm very happy with the solutions that Panasonic has chosen.

    As for the articulated LCD, that's not even up for discussion in my case. It's a permanent love affair

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post

    As for the articulated LCD, that's not even up for discussion in my case. It's a permanent love affair
    Like with the portrait below, taken yesterday afternoon at a fisherman's shack on stilts above the sea in Maasim, the Philippines, while sitting next to the girl, and there was nowhere else to sit or stand, since the 3 sq.m. balcony was packed with people. The portrait wouldn't exist without a fully articulated LCD in "reverse/selfie" mode.

    GX8 with PL 45mm f/2.8 Macro @ f/3.2



    Do I have to take photos under circumstances like that? Clearly not, but I do enjoy taking them and the sometimes memorable photos that I get that way.

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Actually while thinking about all these new to be announced m43 models from whatever manufacturer - who really needs more of the same crap without any substantial improvements like

    24MP BSI sensor
    5.7MP EVF with at least 120fps refresh rates
    much better battery life
    4k/60p internal
    not larger as a GH5, G9 or Olympus EM1.2
    price max. around $1500.-


    no-one really needs another m43 camera except for these features

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Actually while thinking about all these new to be announced m43 models from whatever manufacturer - who really needs more of the same crap without any substantial improvements like

    24MP BSI sensor
    5.7MP EVF with at least 120fps refresh rates
    much better battery life
    4k/60p internal
    not larger as a GH5, G9 or Olympus EM1.2
    price max. around $1500.-


    no-one really needs another m43 camera except for these features
    Well the G9 fits MOST of your list... the XT3 fits almost all of your list except the EVF and battery life.

    BSI sensor doesnít guarantee better lowlight performance. Itís all in how the manufacturer implements it. By most accounts the lowlight performance of the XT2 is slightly better than the XT3 that has a BSI sensor.

    The new EVF probably has a ďridiculousĒ power draw. Most of the S1/S1R reports are saying that a person needs 2 batteries per body for a full day of shooting something like a wedding (~2,000 shots) with the power management at default settings. Theyíre also reporting 1.5-2 hrs of run time when recording 4K video. This isnít a huge issue for me personally but it is something to think about for those expecting the huge battery to last ďforever.Ē It doesnít and a lot of that is likely due to all of the tech going on inside.
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Actually while thinking about all these new to be announced m43 models from whatever manufacturer - who really needs more of the same crap without any substantial improvements like

    24MP BSI sensor
    5.7MP EVF with at least 120fps refresh rates
    much better battery life
    4k/60p internal
    not larger as a GH5, G9 or Olympus EM1.2
    price max. around $1500.-


    no-one really needs another m43 camera except for these features
    What you are describing is a G9 with 20% more pixels, which is insignificant, and an even better viewfinder. The G90 is already being described as a GH5 Light (like the G85 was described as a GH4.5), and will probably cost $1,000-1,100. These are cameras with more focus on video than stills, and I doubt that hi-res mode will be included. I wouldn't be surprised if it offers 4K/60p and 1080p/120 though. I wouldn't mind if it uses the same batteries as the G85/GX8, since I have a bunch of them. It would be even better if it could take two of them in the grip and one in the body, Fuji style.

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Well, happened again to me - so here come some more final thoughts about the new G90/G95

    I am actually quite happy by where I see m43 in general and Panasonic specifically moving especially with that latest introduction of their G90/G95 (kit).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui3q...em-uploademail

    This is by no means a camera I would have wanted as described before, but it shows that Panasonic is still committed to m43 and bringing maybe even better cameras and kits to the market at even lower prizes in the future. Not that I will run and buy this camera immediately, but for the prize even at introduction this kit is VERY compelling for most hybrid shooters who want/need compact and reasonably prized gear.

    At least with hat introduction and the new m43 alliance member Sharp the future for m43 looks not so black anymore

    PS: while following all these FF mirrorless system introductions over the last 6 months or so, I became interested in FF again, but at the same time I became even more frustrated about size, weight and prize of most options - especially prize if you really want high quality. that means seeing m43 survive and prosper is pretty much important for me meanwhile - I had forgotten about that - and to be honest I am no longer up to schlepping what else FF (mirrorless) gear around in the future - period. That time is non, at least for me. For studio and special occasions yes, but for the rest (that is maybe 98 percent in my case) definitely not more that m43. In that regard this G90/G95 (kit) really starts shining!

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    This is more or less what I had hoped for, a budget friendly G9/GH5 hybrid. The only thing that can make it problematic is that it's a bit more expensive than the G85, while the G9 has fallen in price. We'll see...

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    This is more or less what I had hoped for, a budget friendly G9/GH5 hybrid. The only thing that can make it problematic is that it's a bit more expensive than the G85, while the G9 has fallen in price. We'll see...
    I think thatís the key. The price is awfully close to the G9 and I think given the choice Iíd just go with the G9. I assume Panasonic is hoping for the same as well. In any case itís a good addition and I didnít need reassurances that Panasonic wasnít abandoning Micro 4/3. Iíve seen many of their reps direct people to Micro 4/3 when theyíve complained about various aspects of the LUMIX S.
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Well, happened again to me - so here come some more final thoughts about the new G90/G95

    I am actually quite happy by where I see m43 in general and Panasonic specifically moving especially with that latest introduction of their G90/G95 (kit).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui3q...em-uploademail

    This is by no means a camera I would have wanted as described before, but it shows that Panasonic is still committed to m43 and bringing maybe even better cameras and kits to the market at even lower prizes in the future. Not that I will run and buy this camera immediately, but for the prize even at introduction this kit is VERY compelling for most hybrid shooters who want/need compact and reasonably prized gear.

    At least with hat introduction and the new m43 alliance member Sharp the future for m43 looks not so black anymore

    PS: while following all these FF mirrorless system introductions over the last 6 months or so, I became interested in FF again, but at the same time I became even more frustrated about size, weight and prize of most options - especially prize if you really want high quality. that means seeing m43 survive and prosper is pretty much important for me meanwhile - I had forgotten about that - and to be honest I am no longer up to schlepping what else FF (mirrorless) gear around in the future - period. That time is non, at least for me. For studio and special occasions yes, but for the rest (that is maybe 98 percent in my case) definitely not more that m43. In that regard this G90/G95 (kit) really starts shining!
    In reality the LUMIX S isnít as large as some people make it out to be. Itís slightly larger than the G9. Some of the lenses appear larger due to their front elements and most product shots display them with their hoods on. In reality the 70-200 is somewhat compact for its size/performance and the 24-105 is comparable in size to other lenses of that focal range. The 50 is on the larger size but it also has the largest aspherical elements in a system camera to date. Sometimes I feel for the camera companies, attempting to make a product that satisfies most in the age of the internet but thatís what they get paid for as well.
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    This is more or less what I had hoped for, a budget friendly G9/GH5 hybrid. The only thing that can make it problematic is that it's a bit more expensive than the G85, while the G9 has fallen in price. We'll see...
    This is what I was also thinking - after I found out that the G90 applies a crop when using 4k - the G9 stays full m43 frame. And also the G9 has lots of other great advantages for a very competitive price .....

    might I go Panasonic via the G9 route ????

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    At least with hat introduction and the new m43 alliance member Sharp the future for m43 looks not so black anymore
    I didn't realize that the camera market needed another m43 manufacturer. Market share isn't growing so Sharp is going to have to take what it can get from an ever shrinking pie. I don't get it. How long is it going to take them to develop a lens line. And is Sharp even a credible brand for cameras and lenses? Olympus has a history and Panasonic has the Leica connection. Sharp has what? TVs and microwaves?

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    I didn't realize that the camera market needed another m43 manufacturer. Market share isn't growing so Sharp is going to have to take what it can get from an ever shrinking pie. I don't get it. How long is it going to take them to develop a lens line. And is Sharp even a credible brand for cameras and lenses? Olympus has a history and Panasonic has the Leica connection. Sharp has what? TVs and microwaves?
    Sharp doesn't need to develop a single lens. That's the advantage with MFT. There are lots of lenses available from Olympus, Panasonic, Sigma etc. already.

    Sharp isn't entirely new to cameras. They launched their first professional 8K camera in 2017, and it shoots 8K 60p! It's also a bit expensive at $77,000:

    Sharp Announces 8C-B60A 8K Professional Camcorder
    https://www.dpreview.com/news/551172...mera-is-77-000

    Panasonic also makes TVs and microwaves btw., and refrigerators and air-cons and, and...

    Thre are btw. much more suppliers of MFT cameras than most people realise. In Addition to Olympus and Panasonic, Blackmagic and Sharp are also members of the consortium. In addition JCL, DJI, Z Cam and a few smaller manufacturers make cameras with MFT mount, some of them with full electronic compatibility.
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 5th April 2019 at 10:26.
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Sharp doesn't need to develop a single lens. That's the advantage with MFT. There are lots of lenses available from Olympus, Panasonic, Sigma etc. already.

    Sharp isn't entirely new to cameras. They launched their first professional 8K camera in 2017, and it shoots 8K 60p! It's also a bit expensive at $77,000:

    Sharp Announces 8C-B60A 8K Professional Camcorder
    https://www.dpreview.com/news/551172...mera-is-77-000

    Panasonic also makes TVs and microwaves btw., and refrigerators and air-cons and, and...

    Thre are btw. much more suppliers of MFT cameras than most people realise. In Addition to Olympus and Panasonic, Blackmagic and Sharp are also members of the consortium. In addition JCL, DJI, Z Cam and a few smaller manufacturers make cameras with MFT mount, some of them with full electronic compatibility.
    I agree and if their camera functions as advertised then itíll be a niche hit. I doubt theyíre going for high volume with their 8k video camera as itís supposed to cost ~$5k but itíll get some looks from many.

    I never understood the negativity that some have towards electronics conglomerates that enter the camera space. Comes across as misplaced elitism. Itís within their technical wheelhouse and as we can see the Sony and Panasonicís of the world have some class leading options. It can be legitimately argued that theyíre doing more to push the camera industry than the traditional brands overall.
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The hunt for "the bee's knees" is still on. The E-M1X would be nice of course, but it's expensive. I did buy the G85 a couple of years ago, and was very happy with the performance compared to the GX8 of which I have two (better shutter, better IS, better grip, somewhat better video),
    I THINK that the bold praise refers to the G80/85, not the GX8. (I recall you replied to me that details from then new 20mpx ~= the 16mpx & no AA filter.)

    A few of my friends now use G85 bodies very successfully due to my advice, not because I'm a good advisor, but because it's a very good camera, and very simple to use.
    A discouraging thing IMO has been so much marketing of the camera as a kit w/12-60<normal> and body-only offers not frequent nor too temptingly cheap. But some of the applause of the new comes from those seeking the "old" --rendered sooo useless in comparison -- at now cheaper prices ("When you please don't throw me into that briar patch, please don't throw that old useless gear to me, too!")


    -d.

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by drofnad View Post
    I THINK that the bold praise refers to the G80/85, not the GX8. (I recall you replied to me that details from then new 20mpx ~= the 16mpx & no AA filter.)


    A discouraging thing IMO has been so much marketing of the camera as a kit w/12-60<normal> and body-only offers not frequent nor too temptingly cheap. But some of the applause of the new comes from those seeking the "old" --rendered sooo useless in comparison -- at now cheaper prices ("When you please don't throw me into that briar patch, please don't throw that old useless gear to me, too!")


    -d.
    That's right. The G85 improved on the GX8 in many ways. The G95 has improved in areas where the G85 was inferior to the GX8, like better viewfinder, a more "physical" user interface. In addition, the image quality is probably better than that of the GX8, and the video options are way superior.

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    I love the reviews from these guys. Real people making real life reviews. And they like the G90

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bIn3tV6NEU

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I love the reviews from these guys. Real people making real life reviews. And they like the G90

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bIn3tV6NEU
    The autofocus face tracking seems to be a good deal more accurate than the GH5 in holding focus. Itís probably using a similar algorithm to the S1/S1R so perhaps these improvements can come to the GH5/G9/GH5s in time.
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    The autofocus face tracking seems to be a good deal more accurate than the GH5 in holding focus. Itís probably using a similar algorithm to the S1/S1R so perhaps these improvements can come to the GH5/G9/GH5s in time.
    ... not to speak about the GH6, which will hopefully unite the G9 and the GH5 in one body.

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    ... not to speak about the GH6, which will hopefully unite the G9 and the GH5 in one body.
    I certainly hope not.

    Thereís room for both and frankly they can get rid of a lot of the lower end models by consolidating them. I feel like they all blend together and perhaps they can continue the GH5 as the lower end model once a GH6 is released. No need to spend money developing a stripped down version when they can continue to produce the previous flagship as a lower end model.

    They need a higher end dedicated photo option and a dedicated video one IMO. I actually hope that they make the G9 successor more like the LUMIX S cameras in body style ergonomically but slightly smaller.
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I certainly hope not.

    Thereís room for both and frankly they can get rid of a lot of the lower end models by consolidating them. I feel like they all blend together and perhaps they can continue the GH5 as the lower end model once a GH6 is released. No need to spend money developing a stripped down version when they can continue to produce the previous flagship as a lower end model.

    They need a higher end dedicated photo option and a dedicated video one IMO. I actually hope that they make the G9 successor more like the LUMIX S cameras in body style ergonomically but slightly smaller.
    The problem with the two bodies for me is that I really need both functionalities, also when travelling, and a G9 plus a GH5 or GH5s starts to get big. The alternative for me could then be to buy a more compact solution for high quality video, like the Z Cam E2, using a phone as viewfinder. But then I'm moving out of the Panasonic world, and the next question would then be if the G9 is what I need for photography.

    I think they'll launch a hybrid GH6 and a GH6s dedicated for video, but time will show.

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The problem with the two bodies for me is that I really need both functionalities, also when travelling, and a G9 plus a GH5 or GH5s starts to get big. The alternative for me could then be to buy a more compact solution for high quality video, like the Z Cam E2, using a phone as viewfinder. But then I'm moving out of the Panasonic world, and the next question would then be if the G9 is what I need for photography.

    I think they'll launch a hybrid GH6 and a GH6s dedicated for video, but time will show.
    I guess the question is what video features do you need in the GH line that arenít present in the G line? Are you willing to accept slower AF speed of the GH line? I thought you did more photography than video and if you arenít heavily grading your video I donít know that there's a huge difference between 8-bit and 10-bit video for most people.
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I guess the question is what video features do you need in the GH line that arenít present in the G line? Are you willing to accept slower AF speed of the GH line? I thought you did more photography than video and if you arenít heavily grading your video I donít know that there's a huge difference between 8-bit and 10-bit video for most people.
    To be honest, I need a GH5s more than a GH5, since most of my commercial video is low light, industrial. The higher frame rate for slo-mo of the GH5s would also be useful, as would V-log (if I ever get some spare time to do serious post processing). So ideally, I should consider a G9 plus a GH5s.

    I'm still aiming not to buy any new body until the end of the year, so there's time

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    To be honest, I need a GH5s more than a GH5, since most of my commercial video is low light, industrial. The higher frame rate for slo-mo of the GH5s would also be useful, as would V-log (if I ever get some spare time to do serious post processing). So ideally, I should consider a G9 plus a GH5s.

    I'm still aiming not to buy any new body until the end of the year, so there's time
    If youíre considering the GH5s then maybe you should have a closer look at the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K (BMPCC4k). Itís probably better specíd, comes with pro level software you need to make the most of it, and performs a bit better at high ISO while still utilizing your same lenses. The menu is also not as deep and is arguably more simple to use than even Leica cameras (since youíre sensitive to cameras with deeper menus).

    Iíve kinda gotten to the opinion that for many a dedicated tool is likely a better option than a compromised solution of quality is of the utmost importance. I think a lot of people are frustrated with the LUMIX S cameras (due to not doing their own research) in that it isnít a FF GH5 but it was never meant to be... and even still a GH5 is a compromise to a dedicated video camera IMO. For creating Youtube videos, music videos, and/or low production indie films a hybrid camera is fine but theyíll always have a priority on photography based ergonomics and usage. BMPCC4k is designed to be tied to a tripod or gimbal with the occasional handheld use. If video is a priority then Iíd recommend it and thereís even a external grip coming in late summer than allows one to use two Sony L-Mount batteries for extended recording plus you can already record directly to a hard drive over USB3 (in addition to CFAST2). Maybe itís just me but for video specifically, itís likely a better solution for your video needs plus thereís Blackmagic RAW too now as of a few weeks ago.
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    The Blackmagic is a great alternative and cheap. Unfortunately, It's also big. Another one is of course the Z Cam E2. With a half cage, a handle, a couple of batteries and a monitor it's around $3,000, but then it shoots 4K 120 fps and 1080p at twice that speed. It's also tiny and apparently very robust. A viewfinder adds another 1,000-1,200 (for the Blackmagic as well), and that's where one saves big time with the Panasonic; it has a viewfinder built in, and it sells for under $2,400 including taxes and with local support.

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Here's a long review of the G95. She's sponsored by Panasonic, so take it for what it is, but I'm left with the impression that this is a very usable camera, maybe even more so than the G9 for most of my usage.

    One of the things she mentions is one handed shooting, something I do a lot. The button placement, the low weight and small size all make that a bit easier.

    https://www.journalofnomads.com/pana...90-g95-review/

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Here's a long review of the G95. She's sponsored by Panasonic, so take it for what it is, but I'm left with the impression that this is a very usable camera, maybe even more so than the G9 for most of my usage.

    One of the things she mentions is one handed shooting, something I do a lot. The button placement, the low weight and small size all make that a bit easier.

    https://www.journalofnomads.com/pana...90-g95-review/
    Interesting review and great little camera.

    Having said that - I still do not get it why to buy a G90 if I can have the G9 for €1265.- now on Amazon - and this is definitely not the cheapest place to buy ....

    https://www.amazon.de/s?k=lunix+g9&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

    And for one handed shooting the little bit more size of the G9 is even an advantage IMHO

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Interesting review and great little camera.

    Having said that - I still do not get it why to buy a G90 if I can have the G9 for Ä1265.- now on Amazon - and this is definitely not the cheapest place to buy ....

    https://www.amazon.de/s?k=lunix+g9&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

    And for one handed shooting the little bit more size of the G9 is even an advantage IMHO
    If I were to buy the G95, the superior video features would be the most important, since that's where the most prominent improvement over the GX8 is. On paper, the G9 should produce higher quality video and even has faster slo-mo (180 fps vs. 120 fps), but the question is if it's noticeable in real life. In addition, it offers Vlog (not available for the G9), unlimited shooting time in all video formats and finally they have moved the mic socket out of the way for the LCD. It also uses the same batteries as my GX8 bodies that I'm keeping.

    I don't know what I'll buy yet, and I might as well end up with a G9 or a GH5, but I really like this camera. As for one hand shooting, less weight and less width are important to me, as is the position of the playback button. The latter is on the wrong side of the camera on the G9, at least from my point of view.
    https://www.un.org/en/sections/un-ch...r-i/index.html
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    Re: G90... very promissing


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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Here's a long review of the G95. She's sponsored by Panasonic, so take it for what it is, but I'm left with the impression that this is a very usable camera, maybe even more so than the G9 for most of my usage.

    One of the things she mentions is one handed shooting, something I do a lot. The button placement, the low weight and small size all make that a bit easier.

    https://www.journalofnomads.com/pana...90-g95-review/
    I personally don’t care that people are sponsored by a company or are ambassadors... it doesn’t mean they’ll all risk their credibility for a pay day. I know people have become increasingly cynical of Ambassadors and towards those with a level of relational access. I can say for certain that much of the opportunity for access comes down to individual professionalism and less of it comes solely from ability or pure social status.

    Her review was relevant to and honest of her experiences.
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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    If I were to buy the G95, the superior video features would be the most important, since that's where the most prominent improvement over the GX8 is. On paper, the G9 should produce higher quality video and even has faster slo-mo (180 fps vs. 120 fps), but the question is if it's noticeable in real life. In addition, it offers Vlog (not available for the G9), unlimited shooting time in all video formats and finally they have moved the mic socket out of the way for the LCD. It also uses the same batteries as my GX8 bodies that I'm keeping.

    I don't know what I'll buy yet, and I might as well end up with a G9 or a GH5, but I really like this camera. As for one hand shooting, less weight and less width are important to me, as is the position of the playback button. The latter is on the wrong side of the camera on the G9, at least from my point of view.
    I think you are pretty much right with your thoughts about the G90. It would also tick most of my boxes I currently have for my next type of camera.

    As you I am also waiting what the Fuji X-H2 will bring to the table and if this one is right Fuji might very well become my next all in one system for the next few years.

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    She's sponsored by Panasonic, so take it for what it is,
    https://www.journalofnomads.com/pana...90-g95-review/
    While I don't want to go negative, really, this piece has a lousy scent to it, sounding too much like rather lame doing-her-duty as an ambassador. Some of what she says really blows her credibility, IMO.
    --to wit:

    Although she never had the G80/85, she's heard it has a good grip, but as the new model's was redesigned, it must be better. That's a non-sequitur (considering my complaint of how great the GX7's was in contrast i.p. to GX80/85's redesigned one).

    She misstates that the "kit" lens is a "Leica" 12-60 --that would be the 2.8-4 creature; elsewhere in the article, this is (rightly) contradicted.
    SAD, IMO, I see the same kit-pkg-only sales issue, for N.America, at least, per DPReview : "The G95 is only being offered as a kit in North America with the 12-60mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH Power OIS zoom. This combination will set you back around $1199, which is a $200 premium over the comparable G85 kit. : that's not appealing to current users who want to upgrade/add a camera and have already their desired lenses.

    I wondered if maybe Panasonic had provided her a checklist of things to mention; but they --offering now the S1-- surely didn't create this slip:
    The sensor of a Micro Four Thirds camera (also called a mirrorless camera), in this case the G90, is half the size of a full sensor camera, like a DSLR.
    She'll want to double that doubling!

    And this wizzard summary take?
    You might wonder if thereís really a big difference between the Lumix G90/95 and the Lumix G80/85. While both cameras show a lot of similarities, Iíd definitely say that the G90 is an upgraded version.
    As opposed to a copy with just a new number?!

    Well, sorry Tre, there it is : a <grumph>


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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by drofnad View Post
    While I don't want to go negative, really, this piece has a lousy scent to it, sounding too much like rather lame doing-her-duty as an ambassador. Some of what she says really blows her credibility, IMO.
    --to wit:

    Although she never had the G80/85, she's heard it has a good grip, but as the new model's was redesigned, it must be better. That's a non-sequitur (considering my complaint of how great the GX7's was in contrast i.p. to GX80/85's redesigned one).

    She misstates that the "kit" lens is a "Leica" 12-60 --that would be the 2.8-4 creature; elsewhere in the article, this is (rightly) contradicted.
    SAD, IMO, I see the same kit-pkg-only sales issue, for N.America, at least, per DPReview : "The G95 is only being offered as a kit in North America with the 12-60mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH Power OIS zoom. This combination will set you back around $1199, which is a $200 premium over the comparable G85 kit. : that's not appealing to current users who want to upgrade/add a camera and have already their desired lenses.

    I wondered if maybe Panasonic had provided her a checklist of things to mention; but they --offering now the S1-- surely didn't create this slip:

    She'll want to double that doubling!

    And this wizzard summary take?

    As opposed to a copy with just a new number?!

    Well, sorry Tre, there it is : a <grumph>

    I have no issue with your comments. Theyíre not cynical. Theyíre critiques that are largely tied to specific points. Theyíre fair criticisms... in any case though. I still believe that her points are largely valid for her purposes and usage. Doesnít mean your criticisms are valid either.

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by drofnad View Post
    While I don't want to go negative, really, this piece has a lousy scent to it, sounding too much like rather lame doing-her-duty as an ambassador. Some of what she says really blows her credibility, IMO.
    --to wit:

    Although she never had the G80/85, she's heard it has a good grip, but as the new model's was redesigned, it must be better. That's a non-sequitur (considering my complaint of how great the GX7's was in contrast i.p. to GX80/85's redesigned one).

    She misstates that the "kit" lens is a "Leica" 12-60 --that would be the 2.8-4 creature; elsewhere in the article, this is (rightly) contradicted.
    SAD, IMO, I see the same kit-pkg-only sales issue, for N.America, at least, per DPReview : "The G95 is only being offered as a kit in North America with the 12-60mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH Power OIS zoom. This combination will set you back around $1199, which is a $200 premium over the comparable G85 kit. : that's not appealing to current users who want to upgrade/add a camera and have already their desired lenses.

    I wondered if maybe Panasonic had provided her a checklist of things to mention; but they --offering now the S1-- surely didn't create this slip:

    She'll want to double that doubling!

    And this wizzard summary take?

    As opposed to a copy with just a new number?!

    Well, sorry Tre, there it is : a <grumph>

    Yes, there are lots of inaccuracies in her review. She cares more about the usability of the camera than the technical facts While the nerd in me doesn't like that much, the photographer does... a lot.

    My mantra when comparing cameras has mostly been, check if the ergonomics and build quality suit you and look at the photos and footage. If there are no major differences, buy the cheapest one. Which I do.

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I personally don’t care that people are sponsored by a company or are ambassadors... it doesn’t mean they’ll all risk their credibility for a pay day. I know people have become increasingly cynical of Ambassadors and towards those with a level of relational access. I can say for certain that much of the opportunity for access comes down to individual professionalism and less of it comes solely from ability or pure social status.
    A few years ago I chose a photographer to photograph my son's wedding (many many years ago I photographed my own wedding - all in mirrors).

    He had a great eye for capturing a moment and was a really nice person.

    Recently he became a brand ambassador for a well known camera company.

    He reviewed an exciting new camera by taking it to shoot 'street photography'.
    Many of the images were great moments captured …….….
    …….… but then I recognised him in the background of a couple of 'his' shots.

    So the reality was that in those cases the 'moment' was set up, and then shot by an assistant.

    It didn't detract from the camera though - and I'm not going to give any clues as to what the brand was.
    Ian.

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    Re: G90... very promissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Elderly View Post
    A few years ago I chose a photographer to photograph my son's wedding (many many years ago I photographed my own wedding - all in mirrors).

    He had a great eye for capturing a moment and was a really nice person.

    Recently he became a brand ambassador for a well known camera company.

    He reviewed an exciting new camera by taking it to shoot 'street photography'.
    Many of the images were great moments captured ÖÖ.Ö.
    ÖÖ.Ö but then I recognised him in the background of a couple of 'his' shots.

    So the reality was that in those cases the 'moment' was set up, and then shot by an assistant.

    It didn't detract from the camera though - and I'm not going to give any clues as to what the brand was.
    Well yes, companies will setup corporate events for press and ambassadors to test their products. No question about that - but then for an experienced shooter how different are the cameras? They either perform within your existing workflow, assist in your workflow efficiency, or theyíre something to pass over.

    I just believe that people need to take time to step step back from it all. I think collectively the photographic community is resistant to ANY change and many donít acknowledge the writing on the wall. Itís why many have the most harsh critiques of YouTube creators, many are resistant to the importance of video, many are overly critical to the style of brand ambassadors, and many are flat out hypocritical.

    How many bashed Mirrorless for years and are now all about it now that their brand of choice is in the game now? How many people like Eye-AF now that their camera does it? How many are happy about having a higher quality camera in a small (for when you want to go small) package? How many are now saying dual card slots are no longer important? A few years ago, how many stated that pro cameras didnít need articulating screens of any types or that pro photographers wouldnít want that.

    My personal feelings is that its important and responsible for camera makers to recognize a wide swath of voices. I donít agree with the idea that sometimes the loudest voices get the most attention in the face of the photographic community but thatís for the marketing departments to figure out. Itís their job to place a diverse set of potential users in their gravity to assist in their design decisions. I think thereís room for niche companies to concentrate on specific needs like leica does with the M but I also believe itís important for the all-around cameras to not have any serious flaws so that people can justify not just using their iPhone.
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