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Thread: Em5iii

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Em5iii

    Someone has to start this ....

    https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-first-l...ympus-e-m5iii/

    The camera will have most of the E-M1X features for a fraction of the price - this sentence caught my eyes .... we will see.


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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Em5iii

    Ok, so the EM5III is meanwhile out and still nobody who is interested?

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/820250...a-mini-e-m1-ii

    https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/oly...initial-review

    It is actually a small (form factor) EM1.2 and by that maybe the smallest mirrorless camera that is hugely capable.

    I must say I am most likely not going to buy one as I have the EM1.2 but I could see this being a very appealing offer for many others who upgrade or want to have a second smaller camera besides their EM1 type of camera.

    Any thoughts or reactions?

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    Re: Em5iii

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Ok, so the EM5III is meanwhile out and still nobody who is interested?

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/820250...a-mini-e-m1-ii

    https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/oly...initial-review

    It is actually a small (form factor) EM1.2 and by that maybe the smallest mirrorless camera that is hugely capable.

    I must say I am most likely not going to buy one as I have the EM1.2 but I could see this being a very appealing offer for many others who upgrade or want to have a second smaller camera besides their EM1 type of camera.

    Any thoughts or reactions?
    Generally... I’m not not interested in much of what Olympus makes. Looks like a decent offering that’s not for me. They’re really tying themselves to the choice for outdoor people that want compact size. Good for them but I am just not all that interested in their products.
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    Re: Em5iii

    Beautiful camera, great features, hate the user interface

    Still it's a dilemma for me. My GX8 bodies won't last forever. The logical upgrade would be the G95, but this is much smaller and handier. One of each? Zuiko 12-100 on the Olympus and PL 50-200 on the Panasonic?

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    Re: Em5iii

    So I have someone in mind who builds furniture and is interested in taking pictures of a furniture piece by itself and in a room setting, capturing the entire room. I would be willing to let them use my E-M5.2 and some lenses.

    Here is my question:

    In which way is the E-M5.3 improved over the E-M5.2 feature wise?
    I know about the sensor difference, so don't need that explained, as I also have an E-M1.2.

    But how about focus stacking, high resolution images etc.
    Especially what features would be beneficial for shooting furniture and interior designs?

    TIA.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Senior Member AlanS's Avatar
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    Re: Em5iii

    Well I tried a Em5ii and nice camera but like Jurgen just could not get on with it. I have a Pen f now, fancied one for ages but not sure I am going to keep it! Same issue as the Em5, the damn interface! It is a shame as I quite like it otherwise.

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    Re: Em5iii

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    So I have someone in mind who builds furniture and is interested in taking pictures of a furniture piece by itself and in a room setting, capturing the entire room. I would be willing to let them use my E-M5.2 and some lenses.

    Here is my question:

    In which way is the E-M5.3 improved over the E-M5.2 feature wise?
    I know about the sensor difference, so don't need that explained, as I also have an E-M1.2.

    But how about focus stacking, high resolution images etc.
    Especially what features would be beneficial for shooting furniture and interior designs?

    TIA.
    - Better AF (phase detect)
    - Much better video
    - Probably much better hi-res mode
    - Smaller/lighter
    - Better weather sealing
    - Better IBIS
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    Re: Em5iii

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    - Better AF (phase detect)
    - Much better video
    - Probably much better hi-res mode
    - Smaller/lighter
    - Better weather sealing
    - Better IBIS
    This is what I have extracted from the available information:
    - IBIS 5.5 stops (6.5 stops with Sync IS) vs 5 stops.
    - In cameras USB-C charging
    - 121-point hybrid autofocus system vs CDAF only
    - 2.36M-dot OLED viewfinder with 60 fps refresh rate vs LCD viewfinder
    - 20Mp vs 16Mp resolution.
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    Re: Em5iii

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    This is what I have extracted from the available information:
    - IBIS 5.5 stops (6.5 stops with Sync IS) vs 5 stops.
    - In cameras USB-C charging
    - 121-point hybrid autofocus system vs CDAF only
    - 2.36M-dot OLED viewfinder with 60 fps refresh rate vs LCD viewfinder
    - 20Mp vs 16Mp resolution.
    Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.
    What about high resolution images?
    Is that still under wraps?
    TIA.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Em5iii

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.
    What about high resolution images?
    Is that still under wraps?
    TIA.
    50Mp vs 40Mp high-res mode.

    The EVF has now a longer eyepoint (better for glasses wearers), but smaller magnification. Bluetooth has been added.

    Corrections:
    - in-camera micro USB charging (not USB-C)
    - equally compared, 0.5 stops IBIS improvement.
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    Re: Em5iii

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    This is what I have extracted from the available information:
    - IBIS 5.5 stops (6.5 stops with Sync IS) vs 5 stops.
    - In cameras USB-C charging
    - 121-point hybrid autofocus system vs CDAF only
    - 2.36M-dot OLED viewfinder with 60 fps refresh rate vs LCD viewfinder
    - 20Mp vs 16Mp resolution.
    USB-C Charging is true - BUT it is only Micro USB-C

    The longer I think about this and Olympus in general the more uninterested I am getting in their products. There are so much more possibilities out there that are much better and even pretty small size.

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    Re: Em5iii

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    USB-C Charging is true - BUT it is only Micro USB-C

    The longer I think about this and Olympus in general the more uninterested I am getting in their products. There are so much more possibilities out there that are much better and even pretty small size.
    M III has only USB Micro B connector. I have not heard of USB Micro-C.
    I think M III is a nice upgrade from M II.
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    Re: Em5iii

    Since I usually carry devices with USB-C and Micro USB when I travel, I've bought an (expensive) excellent USB charger with two outlets in addition to two very high quality cables, one of each. To be on the safe side, charger and cables are bright red or red/black, so that I see them when I leave hotel rooms.

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    Re: Em5iii

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    M III has only USB Micro B connector. I have not heard of USB Micro-C.
    I think M III is a nice upgrade from M II.
    I agree. Though I won’t upgrade as I have other tools.
    Nevertheless the E-M5.2 is still a very nice camera to get somebody started.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Em5iii

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    I agree. Though I won’t upgrade as I have other tools.
    Nevertheless the E-M5.2 is still a very nice camera to get somebody started.
    Mobile phones are often accused of destroying the camera industry, but that's only half the truth. Photographers are starting to realise that buying every single model that is launched makes no sense, and it certainly doesn't make anyone a better photographer. We are moving towards a situation where most people buy a new camera because they need it, not because it's new, and production volumes will reflect that. Hopefully, the camera industry will adapt.
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    Re: Em5iii

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    M III has only USB Micro B connector. I have not heard of USB Micro-C.
    I think M III is a nice upgrade from M II.
    Well, that's even worse. I had hoped for a simple USBC connector same as on my Macbook Pro. In these times I think that is a serious flaw!

    As I said not a camera for me.

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    Re: Em5iii

    I think this is a natural progression for this series of cameras. It's a solid offering but I'm also of the opinion that more manufacturers should offer a wider variety of body styles. I'm of the opinoin that there are times when "smaller is better" and there are times when that isn't the case. In many ways I do believe that the marketing of cameras have pigeonholed their design in many way for MOST camera makers. I do believe that such an emphasis was placed on the fact that mirrorless design would allow the possibility of smaller cameras that many have come to expect this and shun any variance. That's a large part of the problem with what Panasonic is dealing with. Many love them but the reviews don't paint the designs in a completely favorable light which I view as an issue objectively. The cameras may not be the first choice for an everyday camera for all people but there is definitely room for a "pro design" camera just the same way there's room for a more compact camera for everyday travel or vacation. I think Fuji and the L-Mount Alliance are "getting this" better than everyone else with the release of the Sigma fp, the Leica L-mount bodies, and Panasonic Lumix S bodies... I sincerely hope Sony gets with the program as well (even if that means releasing a body above the A9) but as it stands there are options like the Tamron FE mount lenses that offer great performance at a reasonable size for the existing bodies. Quite simply it's why I never bought the GM zoom lenses (as outstanding as they are) and considered other brands more seriously the last few years. I love the existing bodies with the FE primes but I sometimes rented the zooms for certain types of paid work.


    So in short I still think that this is a solid offering for existing Olympus users that want to remain with the products of the company but it's just not for me. I had a really bad experience when I briefly owned Olympus products and I'll likely never buy another one... they just aren't for me like Nikon products aren't... and I fully acknowledge that it's a "me" thing. I still push people to Panasonic for Micro 4/3 becauseI feel they're a healthier company with a more realistic upgrade path (IMO of course) plus a more expanded portfolio of "pro quality" options for photo and video.
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    Re: Em5iii

    Back in the film days, Olympus offered one and a half body styles only, the single digit OM-1/2/3/4 and the double digit 10/20/30/40. In reality, the only significant differences were the build quality/material and the viewfinders. That style lasted for 30 years.

    Currently, they're making four and a half styles, the E-M5 and 10 being close to identical in size and shape. That's kind of progress, but they seem to have failed in the enthusiast market for "rangefinder style" cameras. The Pen-F was probably too expensive and had to go, which is what happened to the Panasonic GX8 as well. That's unfortunate, since Sony seems to be doing well with the equaly expensive A6500/6600, not to speak about the Fuji X-Pro Series, although I suspect that Fuji keeps them in the game more as an intellectual statement than anything else. "We are a film company so we make a camera that looks as if it's using film."

    Being a Panasonic user, I agree that Panasonic has been better at offering cameras for clearly defined niches, currently with five distinctly different bodies, most of them with great ergonomics. Unfortunately, that hasn't resulted in great commercial success. Still, Panasonic seems to be in for the long term, and being the biggest company, they can probably afford to.

    A varied offering doesn't necessarily seem to be the recipe for success in this market. The two market leaders, Sony and Fuji, have totally different policies here, Sony with their two and a half bodies while Fuji has nine(!) if we include medium format (and unless I have forgotten any).

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    Re: Em5iii

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Back in the film days, Olympus offered one and a half body styles only, the single digit OM-1/2/3/4 and the double digit 10/20/30/40. In reality, the only significant differences were the build quality/material and the viewfinders. That style lasted for 30 years.

    Currently, they're making four and a half styles, the E-M5 and 10 being close to identical in size and shape. That's kind of progress, but they seem to have failed in the enthusiast market for "rangefinder style" cameras. The Pen-F was probably too expensive and had to go, which is what happened to the Panasonic GX8 as well. That's unfortunate, since Sony seems to be doing well with the equaly expensive A6500/6600, not to speak about the Fuji X-Pro Series, although I suspect that Fuji keeps them in the game more as an intellectual statement than anything else. "We are a film company so we make a camera that looks as if it's using film."

    Being a Panasonic user, I agree that Panasonic has been better at offering cameras for clearly defined niches, currently with five distinctly different bodies, most of them with great ergonomics. Unfortunately, that hasn't resulted in great commercial success. Still, Panasonic seems to be in for the long term, and being the biggest company, they can probably afford to.

    A varied offering doesn't necessarily seem to be the recipe for success in this market. The two market leaders, Sony and Fuji, have totally different policies here, Sony with their two and a half bodies while Fuji has nine(!) if we include medium format (and unless I have forgotten any).
    I think the success with Sony’s minimal bodies styles has to be qualified. A big part of their success is that they keep the older models in circulation as the value models whereas many other companies release incrementally improved new versions every year. Sony is able to do this because frankly the tech remain competitive for a much longer period. For example the A7Rii is a 4+ years old camera that is technically competitive with the newer more expensive cameras from the biggest rivals... the same can be said for the A6000 which is probably closer to being 5-6 years old. You’re right in your post above that many are buying fewer cameras and upgrading less frequently and I’m an example of that. My newest camera is the A7RII and while I did purchase it a few months after initial release, the two upgrades didn’t really address all of my biggest shortcomings of the camera - namely the base size when used with larger lenses. I won’t say that the ergonomics are bad because I don’t believe they are but I do believe there’s room for a slightly larger body along the size the the Fuji XH1. Ironically this camera received a lot of negative press for the increased size which wasn’t deserved IMO and some negative press which was deserved in the amount of unreliable units at launch. I agree that Fuji offers the most body types and has a “value” version and premium version of each style for all budgets. Theres also the fact that Olympus’ name doesn’t carry the weight it once did but nearly everyone knows Canon, Nikon, and Sony by extension of all of the other products they make. Panasonic will always have a market because of their video expertise and the GH line provided them an elevated level of “street cred” in the hybrid camera space. Fuji started the X like as an “Leica alternative” at a time when the M8 or M9 seemed completely unobtainable for the average photographer with the added bonus of AF lenses.

    All of these companies cornered and attacked their own niche of the market which in many ways Olympus did not. I believe now they’re starting to accept the idea (within the last few years) that their niche can be the adventure photographer where size and weight will be of concern. They can provide IQ of a high enough nature and having the highest ISO values doesn’t matter because most are only going to use the cameras from dawn to dusk. I believe this is why their most important products are their tough series compact cameras and the OM-D line. In reality they can and should drop EVERYTHING else and focus on these lines exclusively. Keep the older bodies in production as value options and maybe cut the EM1x price to $2k while adjusting everything else to more rational pricing. As good as that camera may be, the pricing largely had it DOA commercially before it arrived to the stores. They can pretend that it competes directly with the A9’s, 1D’s, and Dx cameras of the world but I’m sure most pro sports photographers will disagree.
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    Re: Em5iii

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I think the success with Sony’s minimal bodies styles has to be qualified. A big part of their success is that they keep the older models in circulation as the value models whereas many other companies release incrementally improved new versions every year. Sony is able to do this because frankly the tech remain competitive for a much longer period. For example the A7Rii is a 4+ years old camera that is technically competitive with the newer more expensive cameras from the biggest rivals... the same can be said for the A6000 which is probably closer to being 5-6 years old. You’re right in your post above that many are buying fewer cameras and upgrading less frequently and I’m an example of that. My newest camera is the A7RII and while I did purchase it a few months after initial release, the two upgrades didn’t really address all of my biggest shortcomings of the camera - namely the base size when used with larger lenses. I won’t say that the ergonomics are bad because I don’t believe they are but I do believe there’s room for a slightly larger body along the size the the Fuji XH1. Ironically this camera received a lot of negative press for the increased size which wasn’t deserved IMO and some negative press which was deserved in the amount of unreliable units at launch. I agree that Fuji offers the most body types and has a “value” version and premium version of each style for all budgets. Theres also the fact that Olympus’ name doesn’t carry the weight it once did but nearly everyone knows Canon, Nikon, and Sony by extension of all of the other products they make. Panasonic will always have a market because of their video expertise and the GH line provided them an elevated level of “street cred” in the hybrid camera space. Fuji started the X like as an “Leica alternative” at a time when the M8 or M9 seemed completely unobtainable for the average photographer with the added bonus of AF lenses.

    All of these companies cornered and attacked their own niche of the market which in many ways Olympus did not. I believe now they’re starting to accept the idea (within the last few years) that their niche can be the adventure photographer where size and weight will be of concern. They can provide IQ of a high enough nature and having the highest ISO values doesn’t matter because most are only going to use the cameras from dawn to dusk. I believe this is why their most important products are their tough series compact cameras and the OM-D line. In reality they can and should drop EVERYTHING else and focus on these lines exclusively. Keep the older bodies in production as value options and maybe cut the EM1x price to $2k while adjusting everything else to more rational pricing. As good as that camera may be, the pricing largely had it DOA commercially before it arrived to the stores. They can pretend that it competes directly with the A9’s, 1D’s, and Dx cameras of the world but I’m sure most pro sports photographers will disagree.
    For me the Sony success mainly comes from really listening to their customers. If you compare e.g. the A7R3 and the A7R4 then you notice immediately that the total haptic has significantly improved over the past 2 years. It is today on a level where it is hard to complain anymore and this is just in the haptics department. But as we all know that is not the only difference and evolution, more importantly there is also the eye AF that works in Sony cameras meanwhile like in no other brand and I dare to say that others will also in the coming years not come close to that and finally there is the 61MP resolution that is currently not offered by anyone else than Sony, although that will change.

    The Oly EM1X was far too expensive from the very beginning - I maybe had bought it for 2K a year ago, but today I would not even care any longer. What is really overdue is a EM1.3 with a better (newer) sensor (24 to 28MP with better DR and high ISO capabilities) and a very much improved EVF (5.7MP with 120Hz as in the A7R4. If they had such a model ready by early 2020 then I could be convinced to stay with Olympus and not switch to Sony FF. But my hopes have almost vanished and I strongly believe now that we either will never see such a camera from Olympus or if we do so then maybe around 2024 or 2025. And that time span is definitely too long for my liking as I live now and want to use such equipment now and not in 5 to 6 years.

    I hope that these few thought of mine describe now one of the biggest failing points of Olympus today.
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    Re: Em5iii

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    For me the Sony success mainly comes from really listening to their customers. If you compare e.g. the A7R3 and the A7R4 then you notice immediately that the total haptic has significantly improved over the past 2 years. It is today on a level where it is hard to complain anymore and this is just in the haptics department. But as we all know that is not the only difference and evolution, more importantly there is also the eye AF that works in Sony cameras meanwhile like in no other brand and I dare to say that others will also in the coming years not come close to that and finally there is the 61MP resolution that is currently not offered by anyone else than Sony, although that will change.

    The Oly EM1X was far too expensive from the very beginning - I maybe had bought it for 2K a year ago, but today I would not even care any longer. What is really overdue is a EM1.3 with a better (newer) sensor (24 to 28MP with better DR and high ISO capabilities) and a very much improved EVF (5.7MP with 120Hz as in the A7R4. If they had such a model ready by early 2020 then I could be convinced to stay with Olympus and not switch to Sony FF. But my hopes have almost vanished and I strongly believe now that we either will never see such a camera from Olympus or if we do so then maybe around 2024 or 2025. And that time span is definitely too long for my liking as I live now and want to use such equipment now and not in 5 to 6 years.

    I hope that these few thought of mine describe now one of the biggest failing points of Olympus today.
    I think Sony has always listened to many of their owner’s concerns. I do believe that we are at the point where perhaps many simply prefer a small size... and that’s fine for most. I happen to have large hands (even for my height) which is what prompted me to want a larger body because some of my client work has indeed changed from when I originally bought into the system. All things equal though, I’m perfectly happy with the results of their cameras though I do get occasion envy of aspects of some other systems... namely Fuji and Panasonic. I still keep a light kit for Micro 4/3 and I regularly go back in forth on adding a GFX.

    In all seriousness I could get by with two A7III’s for all pro work and have a GFX for pro portraits and the rest of my personal work and be entirely fine with that. I wouldn’t mind an updated Sony 50mp sensor with the improved benefits of the GFX100 camera... simply because o find that the GFX 50S is probably as big of a cameras as I’d want to go. I’m in no hurry and my next camera puts chase is likely the Tamron 70-180/2.8 and the next gen Sony bodies to upgrade my existing ones that are 4-6+ years old. Again... I know that Sony takes heat for releasing bodies slightly more frequently but they keep the older ones around as value options.

    As for Olympus, I worry (somewhat) about their long term future but apparently they do much better commercially in Asia than in USA.
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    Re: Em5iii

    Well my 2 cents, all the stellar lenses from Olympus and PL deserve a better camera, better sensor, and faster, much faster readout time.

    I hadn't shot my E-M5.2 for more than a year.
    Didn't remember much about its user interface.
    But working with it for a couple of hours, it all came back easily.
    Relative to the E-M5.2 the UI of the E-M1.2 is improved.
    I would expect the E-M5.3 to follow that trend.

    At the moment there are 3 cameras that I primarily use, namely Fujifilm GFX 50S, Sony A9 FW version 6.0, and to a lesser degree my Olympus E-M1.2.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Em5iii

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Well my 2 cents, all the stellar lenses from Olympus and PL deserve a better camera, better sensor, and faster, much faster readout time.
    <snip
    The sensor readout time for M1m2 and M1x is apparently 1/60. Except for Sony A9 (1/160), all other cameras have 1/15 or slower readout speeds, AFAIK.

    I assume M5m3 has the same readout speed as M1m2.

    IMO, the main disadvantage and advantage of Olympus cameras is the same: the sensor size. The sensor quality of newer Olympus cameras is pretty good. The dynamic range when shooting above ISO 200 is very close to Nikon Z7 numbers.

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