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Thread: EM1X or not - just spitballing

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    EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Just spitballing. I just don't feel I have a satisfying bird photography rig.

    I've really been round and round trying to determine best bang for buck plus best weight for my age.

    I currently use the X-T3 and 100-400 and it a good set-up. Far, far better than the G9+200/2.8 I was previously shooting with. I hate to sound like I am trolling but the DFD system on the G9 is just plain poor. Now, I attempt bird in flight situations with success which before I would just say, "too bad, not worth trying".

    There are two big drawbacks with the X-T3 and 100-400. Firstly, the controls of the camera are not really set-up for action photography. There are no dedicated custom setting buttons so I am forever madly tweaking the front and rear control dials - where with the G9 I would just switch the control knob from C1, C2, C3 etc which I could do by touch very easily.

    Secondly, the 100-400 is a great optic but it is slow (f5.6) and is a tad weak at the long end. It lacks the kind of sharpness you can only get with a prime lens. In bright summer sunlight it is absolutely super because I can easily stop down to f7.1 or above but as soon as you enter the dog days of winter here in the UK, it is a constant fight to get below iso3200 at max aperture. Actually, iso3200 on the X-T3 is pretty damn good (far better than on my G9) and usable but even so, I'd love to shoot at iso1600 or even less.

    The X-T3 also lacks IBIS although the 100-400 does have OIS. Here is the funny thing, though. If you engage OIS at high shutter speeds it actually causes blur in the photos, something I never recall happening with the G9 and 200/2.8. Sure, the AF would miss but locked on the photos were sharp. I never even thought to turn off the IBIS/OIS whereas I have ruined a few photos with the X-T3+100-300 at high shutter speeds by forgetting to turn the OIS off.

    I know this is long winded but if you stick with me I'll get to the point. So my criteria for a bird photography kit is:
    1. Bright prime lens, maximum f4 (e.g. Nikkor/Canon 500 f4 prime).
    2. Rugged, weather sealed camera which can be set up with 3 or more custom modes at the turn of a wheel/control button.
    3. Weight as low as possible - I cannot lift a D850+Nikkor 500/f4 - just not realistic and I definitely would not be able to cart that rig plus a tripod any long distance (unlike carrying my X-T3 rig which I can sometimes rack up 10K when hiking).
    4. IBIS which is less temperamental than the X-T3 which really does seem to cause problems above 1/500th in my experience.

    Now, I have been evaluating several systems:
    1. Canon 7dMkIII plus 300 L IS f4 (plus 1.4x TC when necessary) - a great rig by all accounts BUT I am not sure I can go back to an OVF. Lots of second hand kit at ridiculously low prices - probably cost me about GBP1500 all in. Well established IQ but how does it compare to modern mirrorless offerings?
    2. Nikon D500 pus 300 PF f4 (plus 1.4x TC etc) - lightest of all possibilities but - again - I have to sacrifice the EVF for an OVF. Lots of second hand kit at good prices - probably cost me about GBP2,500 all in. Also, well established IQ but again a bit long in the tooth.
    3. Nikon Z6+adapter+pf500/5.6 - a prime lens but not as bright as 1 and 2, up to date sensor, very portable but probably about GBP 5,000 all-in as there is no second hand market at present for the 500 pf.
    4. Sony A9+200-600 - agreed to be about the best there is - priced it up today at my local camera store and it will come in at about GBP 4,000 - although I can probably shave GBP 500 by finding a used A9. Not a bright lens at all. Actually, thinking about it, probably not that much better than I have at present with the X-T3 (sorry Sony fans) so why make the change?
    5. Olympus OMD E-M1X + Olympus Pro 300 f4. A bright lens, a great camera body in terms of ergos, lighter than the A9+200-600 but not as light as the D500+300pf. However, incredibly compact for what it is - easily hikeable across 10K. Biggest question mark: sacrificing image quality for body ergos and f4 aperture above iso 2000?

    Now, someone, somewhere following my logic is going to say "what about the Fuji XF 200 f2 with the 1.4tc?" Well, there are two problems. In the UK the asking price is about GBP 5,000. Secondly, the analysis above shows there are entire systems with cameras and lenses and way, way more reach for less than that. It just does not make economic or commercial sense.

    So, I just cannot see moving away from mirror less and that means 1 & 2, no matter how obvious it is that this makes the most common sense, are ruled out.

    Casting common sense aside - the Z6+FTZ+500pf, really is a bit of a kludge, no matter what anyone says. And it is the largest investment of all (even if you can get hold of the lens which appears to be as rare as hens teeth). Risky, but might be the best IQ of all.

    The decision in my mind comes down to the A9+200-600 or the EM1X+Pro300.

    The problem with the Sony is that I don't think I will achieve anything more than I already have with the X-T3+100-400 and indeed I'll be losing a stop (or is it half stop?) at the long end where I'll probably spend most of the time. Sure, the AF is fantastic, the IQ is fantastic but will noise defeat all these advantages if I am constrained to the lowest aperture being f6.3?

    The EM1X is the best body I have played with in a long time. Easily as good as the G9 which was the best body I owned before that. (For all its wonderful features the X-T3 is a good, not great, body). The ergonomics of the Pro 300 (with its AF/MF clutch) is also very good. Together they feel great in the hand compared to the A9+200-600 I tried. The A9+200-600 feels a bit like the lens 'tail' wagging the camera body 'dog'. Whereas with the EM1X the body is clearly capable of handling the lens even one handed.

    I handled both systems at my local camera store today and came away with mixed feelings. Looking back, there is something about the Sony ergonomics and handling I just did not like. The Olympus was much, much better. But my head keeps on saying "Sony - no risk. Olympus - risky, especially in terms of IQ which may completely negate the bright aperture and ergonomics".

    Not too sure what to do and in fact I'm inclined to do nothing as I am not satisfied that the kit I want exists at present. This down in part to Fuji's failure to give us well priced prime with reach, e.g. a 300 f4. The 200 f2 may be a technical masterpiece but I bet you wont see many of them at the Olympics in 2020.

    I don't know if anyone has had the energy to read all this but your comments would be valuable.

    LouisB

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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Owning and shooting Olympus m43 since many years now and shooting the 4/300 on my EM1.2 I can only say that this is a killer combo. It only can get better with the EM1X which I would own if it had come at a more reasonable price a year ago. Today you can get it new for €2500.- as there is still a rebate of €500.- but I have some gripes with it so I still don't get one.

    Especially in the light of the soon to be introduced EM1.3 (expected February/March this year) that should again become a stellar camera for m43.

    I think you cannot get wrong with Olympus - it all depends how sensitive you are WRT grain at higher ISO - for me even ISO 6400 works well enough with EM1.2 and EM1X (basically same sensor) but your milage may vary. I had shot also the X-T2 with the 100-400 and I always preferred the handling of the EM1.2 to the Fuji setup.

    Also you might consider the soon to be announced Olympus Pro 150-400 (gives an actual reach from 300-800) and has a built in TC of 1.2, but that lens might cost well above 5k€ (my estimate).

    Hope these helps, at least my thoughts from my experience with both Oly and Fuji - anyway looking forward to your decision.
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    It's a painful process, isn't it

    The problem with lens stabilisation, sharpness and high shutter speed is well known. I haven't read about anyone having that problem with IBIS, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't exist. Only last night, I saw Dustin Abott's review of the Tamron 85mm f/1.8 who saw this exact problem after extensive testing.

    Nothing beats the Olympus IBIS in any case, and if you can live with their quirky user interface and menu system, nothing beats the physical ergonomics of the E-M1X. It's as good as or better than the Canon and Nikon top models, only in a package more suitable for normally sized hands. However, if you buy the Olympus, you will sooner or later go for the 150-400mm f/4.5 too, and that won't be cheap. You are hereby warned

    There's one lens for Nikon that you may not be aware of, the 200-500mm f/5.6. It's quite big, but due to its plastic build, not so heavy at 2.3 kg. It's also very sharp, and it's cheaper than any of the lenses mentioned in this thread. I used it extensively for sports with the 36MP D810, and although I criticised it for rendering images a bit "flat", that probably won't be a problem for BIF (it wasn't for airshows and racing cars).

    While the D500 is the perfect Nikon body for this, a used D810 or D850 is also a great alternative, even for action/wildlife. The D810 shoots 5 fps and the D850 7 fps, and the D810 took nearly 50 RAW files in the buffer when using a fast card. There's obviously also lots of cropping room with those bodies.

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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    There are no dedicated custom setting buttons so I am forever madly tweaking the front and rear control dials - where with the G9 I would just switch the control knob from C1, C2, C3 etc which I could do by touch very easily.
    Curious what settings you are changing from shot to shot with your custom buttons.

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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Hi Louis. Others here may be able to give you their personal experience.

    While I do have a E-M1X and the 300/4 Pro lens, I haven't taken any photos of BIF with it (yet), least of all under low light conditions. However, I have a friend who has this Olympus combo and also the Sony A9 with the new 600mm lens. He takes a lot of BIF photos with both setups (also motorsports). Not surprisingly, the A9 is somewhat better in low light. However, in other lighting conditions, he feels the overall AF performance of the E-M1X with the 300/4 is generally on par with the A9 and 600/4. From the BIF photos he has shared with me that were taken with both cameras/lenses under similar conditions, I agree.

    Depending on how you balance the price/performance/weight considerations, the E-M1X with 300/4 could be a good choice vs the also excellent A9 with 600/4.

    Gary
    Last edited by bensonga; 4 Weeks Ago at 21:13.
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Unless you're desperate, I think it's worth waiting for the rumoured E-M1.3 edition and see how it compares to the E-M1X.
    Hopefully it should have an improved sensor over the current one used in the E-M1.2 and E-M1X.
    Low light performance is Ķ43's Achilles heel, so IMO you're better off with your Fuji system.
    And there is a rumoured X-T4 on the horizon with improved EVF and ... IBIS !

    I'd say: relax and sit on your wallet ...

    Krgds.
    Bart ...
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    I can only back what others say, there are many options now that are definitely tempting for wildlife and BIF besides the EM1X with 4/300 Pro and even the new to be announced 4.5/150-400.

    The 4.5/150-400 would be too limiting for me even being a zoom, as I rarely can think about shooting at 400 (800 FF equivalent). I would have rather opted for a 4/70-300 Pro lens instead, as I rarely shoot above 300 (600) but more often also need a shorter reach than 150 (300). But then - who (from Olympus) asks me

    On the other hand I have high expectations in the newly to be announced EM1.3 (maybe BSI sensor finally?), but also in the X-T4 with built in IBIS as well as a higher res EVF and especially new larger batteries with more capacity. This should become quite a dream camera and in combination with the excellent 100-400 a killer combo for wildlife and birding. I for sure know meanwhile that I highly prefer the flexibility of a great zoom over the small quality differences of a prime and I would not sell my 100-400 Fuji again today in order to get the 4/300 Pro for Olympus.

    SO as already mention wait some more 2-3 months and then all the mention solutions should be out and available and then decide that way to go. I myself am really tempted to go back into Fujifilm X with the X-T4 and the much loved 100-400 as the larger sensor compared to m43 has define advantages WRT resolution, DR, better high ISO noise etc. And considering a flexible easier to carry kit for these situations I still prefer m43 and APSC over any FF solution.

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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    For sure a challenging topic. For birding I shoot 2 systems, namely:

    * Sony A9 with battery grip, 1.4x, 2x TC, FE 100-400/4.5-5.6, FE 400/2.8,
    * Olympus EM1.2 with battery grip, 1.4x TC, 300/4 Pro.

    For me an important aspect to consider is sensor readout time. It is:

    * 1/160 s for A9, A9.2 <- no rolling Electronic Shutter (ES) distortions,
    * 1/60 s for EM1.2, EM1X <- Yup, rolling Electronic Shutter (ES) distortions.

    For birding I use A9 with quiet ES, EM1.2 with noisy Mechanical Shutter (MS).
    Other A9 advantages: blackout free EVF, Eye-AF for humans and animals, industry leading AF performance, including focus tracking.

    For hand holding birding my preference: A9 + 1.4x TC + FE 100-400/4.5-5.6.
    If I didnít already have the FE 100-400 and 1.4x TC, I would insider the FE 200-600 instead as well. Although I have shot the FE 400/2.8 and 1.4x TC handheld, for me itís a bit too heavy for hand holding for more than a couple of minutes at a time.

    Frankly for action photography the A9 (and A9.2) is in a league of its own. YMMV.

    For stationary birds the A7r.4 seems a higher resolution option.
    However, sensor readout time is not competitive.
    Doesnít need to be either for that scenario.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post

    For hand holding birding my preference: A9 + 1.4x TC + FE 100-400/4.5-5.6.
    If I didnít already have the FE 100-400 and 1.4x TC, I would insider the FE 200-600 instead as well. Although I have shot the FE 400/2.8 and 1.4x TC handheld, for me itís a bit too heavy for hand holding for more than a couple of minutes at a time.
    Hey K-H,

    just a question: would you reckon the SONY FE 200-600MM F/5.6-6.3 G OSS to be good enough at the long end ?
    My experiences with tele-zooms is that the long-end is always 'weak' ...

    TIA
    Bart ...
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Hey K-H,

    just a question: would you reckon the SONY FE 200-600MM F/5.6-6.3 G OSS to be good enough at the long end ?
    My experiences with tele-zooms is that the long-end is always 'weak' ...

    TIA
    Thanks Bart. Well, at 600 mm that’s where the lens gets predominantly used.

    For example see here
    https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1608204/
    https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/to...04/66#15111774
    https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/to...04/65#15107390

    or here
    https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1583154
    https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/to...54/44#15107264

    Although I have not used that FE 200-600 mm lens myself, I get the impression that users are quite happy with it.

    I tend to believe the FE 100-400 + 1.4x TC and the FE 200-600 at the long end ought to deliver similar incredibly sharp results. I know my FE 100-400 + 1.4x TC does.

    The advantage of the FE 200-600 + 2x TC is that it can reach 1200 mm whereas the FE 100-400 + 2x TC only gets to 800 mm.

    I hope this helps. YMMV.

    One more remark on the A9, A9.2 cameras. In comparison with other Sony A7r.1, 2, 3, 4 cameras they deliver superior consistent focusing results with fewer mis-focused images, in particular when using Eye-AF. Keeper rate is indeed very high, my impression approaching 9 out of 10.

    I am mostly using multiple shots, ES, AF-C, wide or focus area, Eye-AF, and occasionally focus tracking. The only downside with focus tracking is one has to nail focus on the intended target with the first shot, or one tracks the wrong subject.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks Bart. Well, at 600 mm thatís where the lens gets predominantly used.

    For example see here
    https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1608204/
    https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/to...04/66#15111774
    https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/to...04/65#15107390

    or here
    https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1583154
    https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/to...54/44#15107264

    Although I have not used that FE 200-600 mm lens myself, I get the impression that users are quite happy with it.

    I tend to believe the FE 100-400 + 1.4x TC and the FE 200-600 at the long end ought to deliver similar incredibly sharp results. I know my FE 100-400 + 1.4x TC does.

    The advantage of the FE 200-600 + 2x TC is that it can reach 1200 mm whereas the FE 100-400 + 2x TC only gets to 800 mm.

    I hope this helps. YMMV.

    One more remark on the A9, A9.2 cameras. In comparison with other Sony A7r.1, 2, 3, 4 cameras they deliver superior consistent focusing results with fewer mis-focused images, in particular when using Eye-AF. Keeper rate is indeed very high, my impression approaching 9 out of 10.

    I am mostly using multiple shots, ES, AF-C, wide or focus area, Eye-AF, and occasionally focus tracking. The only downside with focus tracking is one has to nail focus on the intended target with the first shot, or one tracks the wrong subject.

    Thank you, K-H. Your respons gives me the needed information and hopefully it helps Louis too making up his mind ...

    Krgds.
    Bart ...
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    That Sony is a fine lens, but it's f/5.6-6.3. I think low light was mentioned. The small aperture will affect AF reliability.

    One great thing with m4/3 is that even lenses with a narrow FOV offer relatively large apertures. At 600mm eqv., the Zuiko 300mm is f/4, while the Sony is nearly one and a half stop slower. Fo exposure, the E-M1X needs the extra light, for AF it's a godsend. The superior Olympus IS (more efficient because of the smaller sensor plus dual IS) also helps.
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    One great thing with m4/3 is that even lenses with a narrow FOV offer relatively large apertures. At 600mm eqv., the Zuiko 300mm is f/4, while the Sony is nearly one and a half stop slower. Fo exposure, the E-M1X needs the extra light, for AF it's a godsend. The superior Olympus IS (more efficient because of the smaller sensor plus dual IS) also helps.
    Agree, If you assume similar noise performance of the sensors the Zuiko 300/4 on M4/3 will achieve similar noise/dof as a 600/8 on Full Frame. So then the zoom end 600/6.3 on the Sony is only half a stop more advantageous which is almost negligible. Add to that the much more lightweight set-up and and stellar IS from Olympus then from my perspective for birding an M4/3 is preferred over Full Frame. APS-C can be a good compromise in case you want one system for multiple use cases but will not be as good for birding as M4/3 with a bright lens.
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Thanks Jorgen, I see it differently.

    The Olympus 300/4 Pro indeed is a stunning optical gem that deserves a better camera/sensor than the EM-1.2, EM1X, or the EM5.3. Once such a better Olympus camera is available my 300/4 Pro might well see (more) use again. In that case I might even get the 2x TC for it, in addition to the 1.4x TC I already have.

    I agree with you that the Olympus 300/4 Pro lens has a size/weight advantage over the Sony FE 400/2.8 (that I also own/use) and the FE 600/4 lens that I donít have any experience with. When there is enough light, the Olympus system clearly can deliver stunning results. No doubt about it.

    For available/ low light I definitely prefer my Sony A9 setup, including the FE 100-400/4.5-5.6 lens and 1.4x TC. With the latest Firmware version 6.0 update for the A9, it now uses PDAF for continuous focusing all the way to and including f/16 IIRC. Before the Firmware update it only could use PDAF up tp f/11.

    In order to support my heavier lenses with a tripod, I finally stumbled upon a terrific video head from Manfrotto. It lets my fine tune the small resistance I need to smoothly and fast point my lens into the desired direction. The gimbal head I used so far couldnít do that and is now retired.

    Just for fun I will put my Olympus FT 300/2.8 SHG lens on the Manfrotto video head and see how that works out.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post

    In order to support my heavier lenses with a tripod, I finally stumbled upon a terrific video head from Manfrotto. It lets my fine tune the small resistance I need to smoothly and fast point my lens into the desired direction. The gimbal head I used so far couldnít do that and is now retired.

    Just for fun I will put my Olympus FT 300/2.8 SHG lens on the Manfrotto video head and see how that works out.
    Which Manfrotto head is that? I need a better video head.
    https://www.un.org/en/sections/un-ch...r-i/index.html
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Which Manfrotto head is that? I need a better video head.
    Manfrotto 504HD
    504 Fluid Video Head With 75 Mm Half Ball

    I use it on
    Robus RC-5570 Vantage Series 3 Carbon Fiber Tripod
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    So many great responses here and some great links to samples that give a better impression of both systems.

    (Did I ever mention this is a great forum and people have always been polite and helpful?).

    I'm still inclined to go with the Olympus system and I think one way to do this without losing too much if I decide in practise it is not so good, is to try and source second user equipment. I do this sometimes because if I have to sell it on then the difference is often equivalent to equipment rental. If I buy new then there is already 20%+ depreciation as soon as I leave the store. To some extent that pretty much rules out the Sony system at present because although A9 bodies are coming up regularly at places like MBP which I have used successfully (I have two excellent second user Fuji lenses and MBP were more than happy to take the first attempt with one lens back and let me exchange it for another, so my experience has been good) the 200-600 has not been around long enough for second user lenses to be common. By contrast the number of s/h EM1X bodies and Pro 300 lenses available from respected sellers with warranties is good.

    I'm still hesitant though and may actually do nothing at present as I now have so much non-wildlife stuff to photograph over the next month or so, I'm not even sure I can go birding any time soon.

    Decisions, decisions, eh?

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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    I kind of agree with K-H... if the Sony A9 series is in your budget then Iíd go that route. It has the fewest shortcomings, objectively speaking, for the performance that youíre seeking. I have no doubt that the EM1X is a capable camera but I donít know how hard youíd need to work to consistently attain the results youíre looking for. I have used the A9 on a few occasions and I did use it briefly with a 200-600 (but not to shoot wildlife). It tracked and locked into focus extremely quickly and accurately. Having Hybrid PDAF work flawlessly down to f/16 sort of eliminates the issues that youíre having with either your Panasonic or Fuji lenses that canít accurately focus and track at f/5.6 or f/8 once speed and motion comes into the equation.

    I didnít throw it out there when you were looking at a replacement for your G9 because you didnít want to go the Sony route. I understand that some donít find the experience to be as enjoyable as some other cameras. What I can say though is that they work and they get the shot. Perhaps you can find the enjoyment in not being frustrated by gear that isnít as reliable as youíd like it to be. I have my issue with Sony but I also acknowledge that I havenít found a camera system that works as well for me either when doing paid work. My S1R is my personal camera and I love it for that... but I donít see a way to leave my Sony bodies unless they speed up their processor development or add a hybrid PDAF system to the mix.
    Visible Light & IR Photographer
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Or get bigger and slower birds...

    Will

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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    [QUOTE=iiiNelson;809134...but I donít see a way to leave my Sony bodies unless they speed up their processor development or add a hybrid PDAF system to the mix.[/QUOTE]

    Not wanting to troll... but I knew this would be a flaw in the S1 bodies... I thought, maybe, Panasonic would surreptitiously move to PDAF or similar with the FF bodies (rather like Fuji use a Bayer and not Trans sensor in the GFX series). It came as no surprise to me when reviewers of the new Panasonic FF systems consistently reported AF issues with moving subjects with the camera.

    I hear what you say about Sony. I may have to consider it more seriously. It is actually a lot more expensive, even with the now discounted A9 (vs A9II) than the Olympus/Pro 300 kit. But you make a good point. I might feel more inspired by actually getting the shot than failing to do so. It is a shame their prime glass is soooo expensive (compared to the Pro 300/4).

    More going round the decision loop.... sometimes I feel more like Sheldon Cooper than a wildlife enthusiast...

    LouisB

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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Or get bigger and slower birds...

    mmm, that would be a dodo ...

    Bart ...
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    mmm, that would be a dodo ...


    Sorry Bart, I can't help out with the dodo.
    Maybe this shot of a Steller's Jay will suffice...



    Olympus E-M1MarkII + Olympus ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 300mm 1:2.8 SHG @ 300 mm (600 mm in 35mm), f/4, 1/2000 s, ISO 640.
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    Senior Member Elderly's Avatar
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    This cartoon is from Nathan W Pyle's superb book 'Strange Planet' .

    It doesn't help choosing a camera system but it made ME laugh out loud !

    Ian.
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Not wanting to troll... but I knew this would be a flaw in the S1 bodies... I thought, maybe, Panasonic would surreptitiously move to PDAF or similar with the FF bodies (rather like Fuji use a Bayer and not Trans sensor in the GFX series). It came as no surprise to me when reviewers of the new Panasonic FF systems consistently reported AF issues with moving subjects with the camera.

    I hear what you say about Sony. I may have to consider it more seriously. It is actually a lot more expensive, even with the now discounted A9 (vs A9II) than the Olympus/Pro 300 kit. But you make a good point. I might feel more inspired by actually getting the shot than failing to do so. It is a shame their prime glass is soooo expensive (compared to the Pro 300/4).

    More going round the decision loop.... sometimes I feel more like Sheldon Cooper than a wildlife enthusiast...

    LouisB
    You aren’t trolling IMO... but for what I do and use it for the S1R AF is fine. It’s not as bad as many reviewers say... and I’d even argue that it’s better than I expected based on reviews. I do believe that DFD will get to a place where the difference in systems is negligible. The LUMIX S is a lot better than the LUMIX G in AF. Even still, there’s room for improvement but I will say in photography it is accurate.

    As for the Olympus versus Sony, I think both are great but I just worry that maybe going around to every system that isn’t Sony may be futile and may cost you more in the long run. The A9II May have improved ergos for you (at a financial cost) but either will definitely work in your attempts to getting the shot.
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Louis...I’m sure there are some here on GetDPI who could provide comparable BIF images taken with the Oly E-M1X with the 300/4 and the Sony A9 with the 200-600 and/or 600 lenses. There are probably other websites where you an or have seen similar comparisons.

    As I mentioned, I have a friend who owns both combos and has been taking BIF photos in the SF Bay area for many years.

    Here is a link to some of his BIF etc photos posted on his website. He is primarily interested in raptors.

    Biodan

    Gary
    Last edited by bensonga; 4 Weeks Ago at 13:45.

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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Not wanting to troll... but I knew this would be a flaw in the S1 bodies... I thought, maybe, Panasonic would surreptitiously move to PDAF or similar with the FF bodies (rather like Fuji use a Bayer and not Trans sensor in the GFX series). It came as no surprise to me when reviewers of the new Panasonic FF systems consistently reported AF issues with moving subjects with the camera.

    I hear what you say about Sony. I may have to consider it more seriously. It is actually a lot more expensive, even with the now discounted A9 (vs A9II) than the Olympus/Pro 300 kit. But you make a good point. I might feel more inspired by actually getting the shot than failing to do so. It is a shame their prime glass is soooo expensive (compared to the Pro 300/4).

    More going round the decision loop.... sometimes I feel more like Sheldon Cooper than a wildlife enthusiast...

    LouisB
    Can you rent or borrow some of these systems to test? If I remember correctly, you moved back to Fuji X because the GFX system was heavy. The larger the sensor, the bigger and heavier the glass.

    Also, how are you going to evaluate the results? Will it be with prints? I found the print test the most revealing as you find out how close all this technology really is. It is only when you get to extremes (either in terms of high ISO or pixel peeping) that difference start revealing themselves--keep in mind, I am not a bird photographer (but great bird photography has been around for a long time taken on much less sophisticated equipment).

    Personally, when I get to the point where I cannot decide to make a jump, it means I have not really identified the solution I really need. I usually take a step back and stop thinking about it for a bit to get some distance. I have never regretted not purchasing something I was unsure of (but I do have a box of stuff I purchased that goes unused).

    How did you know I don't get invited to many parties?
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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Louis,

    just got the info that the newly to be introduced EM1.3 will be basically a mini EM1X without the grip and

    1) a completely new processor
    2) allows even better handheld highness shots than EM1X
    3) new EVF (finally OLED, no info so far about resolution)
    4) same batteries like EM1.2 and EM1X
    5) same battery grip as EM1.2
    6) no info about sensor and resolution so far but my guess would be same sensor with small improvements
    7) same number of PDAF points (121) - a bit weird as I thought that could have easily improved

    Price I don't know but should be definitely much lower than EM1X (original EM1.2 price was around 2k€ at introduction)

    I actually would go for the EM1.3 as that new processor is worth it over the EM1X IMHO

    Best regards

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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    just got the info that the newly to be introduced EM1.3 will be basically a mini EM1X without the grip


    Peter
    I wonder if there will be an introductory offer of a free grip?
    Ian.

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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Quote Originally Posted by Elderly View Post
    I wonder if there will be an introductory offer of a free grip?
    When I owned the E-M1 Mark I, the grip never left the camera. If the price of the E-M1X sinks to around the same level as the mark III plus grip, I'll choose the X for sure... I think

    Or probably neither, since the Olympus functionality still bothers me

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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Is there a battery grip available for the Olympus E-M5.3?
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Is there a battery grip available for the Olympus E-M5.3?
    No, not for the EM5.3 - BUT for the EM1.3 - and good news is it is the same grip as EM1.2

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    Re: EM1X or not - just spitballing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    When I owned the E-M1 Mark I, the grip never left the camera. If the price of the E-M1X sinks to around the same level as the mark III plus grip, I'll choose the X for sure... I think

    Or probably neither, since the Olympus functionality still bothers me
    Olympus cameras are definitely not for you

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