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Thread: Em1.3

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Em1.3

    Just to keep all upcoming information in one place lets start this thread.

    What we (I) know so far ...

    1) Same sensor as EM1X - really unfortunate IMO
    2) completely new processor which allows also
    3) handheld high res shots
    4) OLED EVF - not sure about the resolution though
    5) same battery grip as EM1.2 - which is good news
    6) same batteries as EM1.2 and EM1X

    They should also announce a new compact 12-45 F4 PRO lens - not sure anyone needs this as the 2.8/12-40 PRO is stellar and pretty small and light already.

    Are you interested in this body? I definitely am although I would have expected (wanted) at least a 20MP BSI sensor, maybe even a stacked one, but obviously Sony is in no hurry to develop and offer this.
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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post

    Are you interested in this body? I definitely am although I would have expected (wanted) at least a 20MP BSI sensor, .
    I am INTERESTED in this body, but whether I will be interested in BUYING one will depend on the final specs (enough meaningful improvements over the mk2), and the price.
    I very much doubt that I would be an early adopter.
    Ian.

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    Re: Em1.3

    Well that looks like Olympus is stuck with the E-M1.2 sensor.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Are you interested in this body? I definitely am although I would have expected (wanted) at least a 20MP BSI sensor, maybe even a stacked one, but obviously Sony is in no hurry to develop and offer this.
    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Well that looks like Olympus is stuck with the E-M1.2 sensor.
    If this is all true, I'll pass the E-M1.3 like I did the E-MX.
    But let's be optimistic for now and see what Oly comes up with ...
    Bart ...
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    Re: Em1.3

    Generally Iím not interested in Olympus Micro 4/3 but I donít wonder if Panasonic putting more money into L-Mount Alliance further weakened the developmental resources for Micro 4/3. I donít know that thereís a huge market wanting a higher megapixel sensor in a micro 4/3 camera. The rest seems like evolutionary updates.
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    Re: Em1.3

    Obviously I could do with more, but the current 20 MP is just fine for me. Now a better sensor IRT noise at higher ISO and faster read-out times would be most welcome.
    Bart ...
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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Obviously I could do with more, but the current 20 MP is just fine for me. Now a better sensor IRT noise at higher ISO and faster read-out times would be most welcome.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Generally Iím not interested in Olympus Micro 4/3 but I donít wonder if Panasonic putting more money into L-Mount Alliance further weakened the developmental resources for Micro 4/3. I donít know that thereís a huge market wanting a higher megapixel sensor in a micro 4/3 camera. The rest seems like evolutionary updates.
    I can tell you what I want WRT MP: I would be completely fine with 20MP, but please make it at least BSI!

    Of course if BSI would allow also some more MP - say 24MP, I would take it as well, but not if high ISO and DR suffer too much.

    It is as simple ...
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    Re: Em1.3

    Even a BSI-sensor with higher MP and lower High ISO and DR (more noise) would be a No-No for me.
    I just want better IQ from my Ķ43.

    YMMV ...
    Bart ...
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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I can tell you what I want WRT MP: I would be completely fine with 20MP, but please make it at least BSI!

    Of course if BSI would allow also some more MP - say 24MP, I would take it as well, but not if high ISO and DR suffer too much.

    It is as simple ...
    BSI alone doesnít always ďfixĒ high ISO performance. In Fuji cameras BSI made the high ISO performance ďworseĒ while only gaining 2 megapixels. Stacked sensors are great for readout speed but not so much for DR. Itís an answer for quick action but at a cost to IQ.
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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    BSI alone doesnít always ďfixĒ high ISO performance. In Fuji cameras BSI made the high ISO performance ďworseĒ while only gaining 2 megapixels. Stacked sensors are great for readout speed but not so much for DR. Itís an answer for quick action but at a cost to IQ.
    Hm, kind of have to agree, but I guess in Fuji cameras it was the reason that they also increased MP count from 24 to 26 MP while introducing BSI. I am pretty sure if they had stayed 24MP the high ISO performance would have improved - it actually has to, as there is more surface for entering light once you go BSI.

    Anyway it would be great to see a substantially improved sensor after 4 years as development of sensor tech definitely moved on meanwhile. Also they could have increase number of PDAF points if only extending AF areas till the edges of the sensor - this alone would be a reasonable improvement. Albeit I fear this all will not happen in the EM1.3 release.

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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Hm, kind of have to agree, but I guess in Fuji cameras it was the reason that they also increased MP count from 24 to 26 MP while introducing BSI. I am pretty sure if they had stayed 24MP the high ISO performance would have improved - it actually has to, as there is more surface for entering light once you go BSI.

    Anyway it would be great to see a substantially improved sensor after 4 years as development of sensor tech definitely moved on meanwhile. Also they could have increase number of PDAF points if only extending AF areas till the edges of the sensor - this alone would be a reasonable improvement. Albeit I fear this all will not happen in the EM1.3 release.
    I think Sony has shown that they will customize to anyone's liking... for a price. I don't know how healthy of a company Olympus is right now to develop a whole new generation of sensors. I also think many people craving more megapixels had decided to choose other formats for those needs.

    Perhaps you can just buy a FF high megapixel sensor (or the like) and keep the Olympus for general happy snaps or your telephoto needs?
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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I think Sony has shown that they will customize to anyone's liking... for a price. I don't know how healthy of a company Olympus is right now to develop a whole new generation of sensors. I also think many people craving more megapixels had decided to choose other formats for those needs.

    Perhaps you can just buy a FF high megapixel sensor (or the like) and keep the Olympus for general happy snaps or your telephoto needs?
    I think the financial health of Olympus camera division is most likely the issue for not getting a new sensor. I also heard that they again delayed the 150-400 till summer (that should have been introduced right now). Same issue -not enough money IMO.

    Now WRT FF mirrorless - this is my opinion as well but currently I would not know what brand to select.

    Sony - I am still not friends with again
    Panasonic - too bulky and heavy for my taste
    Leica - far too expensive and same issues as with Panasonic
    Canon - would need to wait for their next RS camera release to see if I like this
    Nikon - same as Canon, maybe a bit more likely as I was a Nikon shooter so all is more familiar to me

    Anyway 2020 I am sure will bring the solution for me
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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I think the financial health of Olympus camera division is most likely the issue for not getting a new sensor. I also heard that they again delayed the 150-400 till summer (that should have been introduced right now). Same issue -not enough money IMO.

    Now WRT FF mirrorless - this is my opinion as well but currently I would not know what brand to select.

    Sony - I am still not friends with again
    Panasonic - too bulky and heavy for my taste
    Leica - far too expensive and same issues as with Panasonic
    Canon - would need to wait for their next RS camera release to see if I like this
    Nikon - same as Canon, maybe a bit more likely as I was a Nikon shooter so all is more familiar to me

    Anyway 2020 I am sure will bring the solution for me
    Well good luck with that. I know youíve been looking for years now. I think Iím good with Panasonic and Sony... took me a while to get there but mostly because I had to accept that everything was gonna be something of a major compromise somewhere. I love Canonís lens designs but the bodies are atrocious to me. Sony has the least compromises in performance but I donít love the singular body style with all lenses. Nikon is like a worse version of the Sony for me personally. Panasonic is waiting for the technology to catch up to their vision but I also think the reports are exaggerated a great deal... for photography uses because so much info on them is done by video people. Fuji is experiencing some QA/QC growth issues I believe still. Cell phones are doing well. Olympus is in a strange place outside of Asia... I donít think their name carries as much weight.... and Pentax is quietly keeping their users very happy I suppose.
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    Re: Em1.3

    This rumour doesn't forebode well: https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-yes-the...-e-m1x-sensor/
    Bart ...
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    Re: Em1.3

    Now confirmed it will be introduced on Feb. 12


    • E-M1III to be announced in mid Feburary…maybe with the new 12-40mm f/4.0 lens
    • Same 20,4MP E-m1X sensor
    • E-M1III Has one more joystick
    • Same battery as E-M1II
    • New processor
    • Can do Handheld High Resolution shots

    Meanwhile some shots with my new 1.2/50 PRO and the ancient EM1.2

    https://adobe.ly/2Rit9bI

    BTW all shot at F1.2


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    Re: Em1.3

    The Press Text has been 'leaked' .

    https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-olympus...s-text-leaked/
    Ian.
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    Re: Em1.3

    I can only repeat myself, the EM1.3 looks rather underwhelming for me.

    The following things did not get fixed/improved/upgraded:

    1) Sensor - still the 4 year old design, no BSI
    2) higher resolution EVF - in 2020 at least 3.6MP should be state of the art for a top end pro camera - actually even 5.7MP
    3) I do not see any support for HEIC/HEFC still only old JPEG - this is a bummer and not adequate anymore

    some other complaints:

    4) I guess nobody really needs this 4/12-45 lens (to be announced with the EM1.3) that has almost same size as the 2.8/12-40. They should have brought at least a 10-40/2.8 or better 10-45/2.8

    5) the 150-400 that is delayed again and it is a rather unnecessary lens for me and I guess for most others as well except some selected wildlife and sports shooters - a fast 70-300 PRO would have been what I was waiting for and also telling Olympus since many years ....

    6) while High Res and handheld High Res is nice, I almost never use this feature. I rather had preferred a higher resolution sensor (whatever is possible in m43 like 24MP)

    With all that I am not sure at all if I will invest in this EM1.3 as for me the difference to the EM1.2 is not big enough, and for that money (around €2k rumoured) I can get a much better solution for my needs - or just buy a Fujis X-Pro3 with one or two lenses and have some fun.

    The main reason I am still putting so much emphasis into Olympus and their updates is because I am heavily invested in this system. But I think many other loyal Olympus shooters will feel similar meanwhile and that might not bode well for Olympus.

    Sorry to say!
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    Re: Em1.3

    It's not enough of an upgrade from the MkII for me - I'm disappointed.

    The only useful plus for me, is the joystick.

    If it wasn't for the size advantage of m4/3rd lenses in the focal lengths I use,
    I would now be seriously thinking of moving up a sensor size.

    If the XT-4 will have ............. I would be very tempted .
    Ian.
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    Re: Em1.3

    I'm waiting for the rumoured GX10; smaller, simpler, same image quality...

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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Elderly View Post
    It's not enough of an upgrade from the MkII for me - I'm disappointed.

    The only useful plus for me, is the joystick.

    If it wasn't for the size advantage of m4/3rd lenses in the focal lengths I use,
    I would now be seriously thinking of moving up a sensor size.

    If the XT-4 will have ............. I would be very tempted .
    I am having quite similar thoughts for upgrading! And of course WRT MK3

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    Re: Em1.3

    EM1.3 will have still 2.36M EVF resolution, although it will be OLED

    Man, this camera becomes always more unlikely for me to buy - same sensor and same EVF resolution - they managed to kill the 2 most important reasons for me to upgrade ....

    https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-some-mo...f-the-e-m5iii/

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    Re: Em1.3

    I felt that the OM-D EM-1 MkII had a number of worthwhile upgrades that I wanted over the MKI to justify my trade-up to it,
    but I don't feel that the MKIII offers enough improvements to temp ME to trade-up again.
    Ian.

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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Elderly View Post
    I felt that the OM-D EM-1 MkII had a number of worthwhile upgrades that I wanted over the MKI to justify my trade-up to it,
    but I don't feel that the MKIII offers enough improvements to temp ME to trade-up again.
    I came to the same conclusion, Ian.
    Saving up for the MkIV ...

    Brgds.
    Bart ...
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    Re: Em1.3

    I see myself upgrading at some point to this camera. Not from the EM1.2, but from the 1.1. The EM1 is a great body to use with my 12-40, 40-150 and 25 pro lenses. Relatively lightweight and robust. The 1.1 is not my main camera (thatís the Pen-F with premium primes). This is my zoom and bad wet weather gear.

    Last year I went to Iceland where cameras like this feel quite at home. Although I thought about getting a new version for that trip, I didnít get to it. The 1.1 didnít disappoint. But it is a bit of a senior citizen* in my camera bag now, so time to count my pennies at some time this year. Skipping a generation means I get to enjoy all the upgrades youíve enjoyed in the past 3 years and then some extras. I do feel that Olympus has re-used as much parts as they could, to release a new model with limited R&D.

    To me thatís fine. With the EM1 and the Pen-F, my photographic needs were pretty much fulfilled. Everything else is just a bonus. But I donít know if this will be attracting many new customers, with other brands offering more jazz for similar prices. Itís just that Iím into indie rock, not jazz.

    * The Pen-F is not much younger, but no version upgrades there alas.

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    Re: Em1.3

    I am pretty much underwhelmed about the EM1.3 as I already mentioned several times in this thread, although then my opinion was based on rumors, but now it is based on real facts.

    I need some more time to understand if I want to buy this upgrade. I almost never will shoot High Res and I almost never do star photography and I can survive with the 3 custom modes of the EM1.2. So not sure if I can qualify this update for me, especially as there are so many other mirrorless systems out there that suit my wishes better, actually much better.

    So definitely I will wait before I either invest into another system (Fuji and Canon are on my shortlist) or if I decide to stay in Olympus land and eventually buy the EM1.3 as soon as prices go somehow down.

    I had expected so much more and Olympus really let me down on this one and I guess many others feel the same way. Which might not bode well finally for Olympus.
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    Re: Em1.3

    Ian.
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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    EM1.3 will have still 2.36M EVF resolution, although it will be OLED

    Man, this camera becomes always more unlikely for me to buy - same sensor and same EVF resolution - they managed to kill the 2 most important reasons for me to upgrade ....

    https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-some-mo...f-the-e-m5iii/
    It's not OLED, it's LCD. The same LCD to be exact :-)

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Em1.3

    I don't know what's wrong with the sensor. I have the original E-M1 ... Hardly use it these days but not because it doesn't perform very well. What's the big deal?

    G

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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    It's not OLED, it's LCD. The same LCD to be exact :-)

    - Ricardo
    Yes Ricardo,

    I had to learn that as well - was obviously just wishful thinking!

    To be exact it is the same LCD like in the EM1X that supports progressive scan. Olympus is very keen to argue the advantages. For me I cam see a little bit better than the EM1.2 but definitely nothing to write home about.

    Peter

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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I don't know what's wrong with the sensor. I have the original E-M1 ... Hardly use it these days but not because it doesn't perform very well. What's the big deal?

    G
    What's wrong is that it is not at least a BSI sensor that would improve DR and high ISO significantly - especially as long as the resolution stays the same.

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    Re: Em1.3

    I thought I read somewhere that Sony already has a m43rds BSI sensor? Or was working on one?

    How can they have one UHS-II slot and one UHS-I slot on this new camera? That smacks of a ridiculous attitude towards their consumers.

    BTW, I am still thinking hard about the EM1X+300/4 for birding. I'm going to wait until after the X-T4 announcement in case Fuji slip in some fixed prime telephotos other than the ridiculously expensive and too short 200/2.

    LouisB

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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    I thought I read somewhere that Sony already has a m43rds BSI sensor? Or was working on one?

    How can they have one UHS-II slot and one UHS-I slot on this new camera? That smacks of a ridiculous attitude towards their consumers.

    BTW, I am still thinking hard about the EM1X+300/4 for birding. I'm going to wait until after the X-T4 announcement in case Fuji slip in some fixed prime telephotos other than the ridiculously expensive and too short 200/2.

    LouisB
    Louis,

    I am so p.....o.. because of reasons like the 2nd UHS1 slot and the mediocre EVF and not using that Sony BSI m43 sensor.

    I guess they plan to introduce another high end cam, maybe the EM1X2 next year with that BSI sensor then and maybe 2x Truepic 9 processors and sell this then as their new high end model- If we are lucky we might then see also another finally better EVF.

    Anyway I have decided to stay with Olympus at least for now so either I go the EM1.3 route (believe it or not it still offers enough improvements for me above the EM1.2 - slightly better EVF from the EM1X, musher faster and better AF with Face and Eye detection and in body charging - finally) or wait for that magic new high end camera sometimes next year. The Olympus PRO lenses are just so good that I do not want to separate with them, especially also the high speed primes like the 1.2/25.

    WRT Fuji X-T4 I have high hopes for this camera and I heard some rumours that they are going to introduce some prime tele lenses with it or a bit later, but before the summer 2020 Olympics in Tokyo. Would make sense.

    I am still not ruling out that wonderful 100-400 zoom lens - if I buy back into the X system this will be a lens I add.
    Last edited by ptomsu; 5 Days Ago at 06:11.

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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Louis,

    WRT Fuji X-T4 I have high hopes for this camera and I heard some rumours that they are going to introduce some prime tele lenses with it or a bit later, but before the summer 2020 Olympics in Tokyo. Would make sense.

    I am still not ruling out that wonderful 100-400 zoom lens - if I buy back into the X system this will be a lens I add.
    I don't need another body from Fuji. The X-T3 rocks for wildlife because you basically have an A9 in APS-C format but a lot, lot cheaper. I knew going into the system that the 100-400 would be a great spring/summer lens but in winter here in the UK I am lucky to get days when I can shoot below iso3200. You might think the 200/2 would then be ideal but even with the crop and the 1.4x extender I am not sure it is long enough (even though it is plenty fast). On top of that it costs more than buying an A9+200-600, or a Z6+PF500/5.6, and much more than the EM1X+300/4. So, the super fast option does not make economic sense. I've even been thinking about adapting a Canon 300/4 IS L with the Fringer EF/XF adapter as a way of keeping my investment in the X-T3 but getting faster glass. Fuji needs to give us wildlife enthusiasts a 300/4 prime lens.

    LouisB
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    "My photography books", Flickr Stream
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  36. #36
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    I don't need another body from Fuji. The X-T3 rocks for wildlife because you basically have an A9 in APS-C format but a lot, lot cheaper. I knew going into the system that the 100-400 would be a great spring/summer lens but in winter here in the UK I am lucky to get days when I can shoot below iso3200. You might think the 200/2 would then be ideal but even with the crop and the 1.4x extender I am not sure it is long enough (even though it is plenty fast). On top of that it costs more than buying an A9+200-600, or a Z6+PF500/5.6, and much more than the EM1X+300/4. So, the super fast option does not make economic sense. I've even been thinking about adapting a Canon 300/4 IS L with the Fringer EF/XF adapter as a way of keeping my investment in the X-T3 but getting faster glass. Fuji needs to give us wildlife enthusiasts a 300/4 prime lens.

    LouisB
    For me the biggest advantages of that rumoured X-T4 would be IBIS and the finally larger battery (I always hated these small Fuji batteries used up till now!)

    I think you might be lucky and we will see such a 300/4 or similar prime lens from Fuji.
    Life is an ever changing journey
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  37. #37
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    Re: Em1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    What's wrong is that it is not at least a BSI sensor that would improve DR and high ISO significantly - especially as long as the resolution stays the same.
    Okay... I guess I just am not very sensitive to these lacks. The E-M1 seems to work very well, I'm sure the newer models work even better.

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
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