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Thread: 5D and G1

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    5D and G1

    This afternoon I had some time so took the 5D with Tamron 28-75 (my alternative lens for this range--have 24-70L also, but often prefer this one which is very sharp) and the G1 and 14-45--plus the FD 35 f/2.8 and did some comparison shots on tripod.

    I expected a difference in DR--and there is some, but shooting RAW I am able to compensate for that, at least in these shots. I shot at 14/28, 24/48, 35/70 at base ISO 100 and comparable f stops, center focus. I had tried a few briefly when I bought the G1 but nothing with foliage/finer detail (it was winter after all LOL) but I have to admit, I'm impressed.

    I feel the G1/14-45 requires a bit more care in the processing--and def. capture sharpening. I haven't printed these, but plan to but expect for others not to be able to make much distinction. Actually, I liked how the G1 handled some colors better even though I use camera profiles for the 5D (strictly personal opinion).

    I also shot with the 5D at 70mm and used the FD 35 f/2.8. The FD needs a bit of contrast boost, but otherwise is def. a good competitor. All in all, I feel very good about shooting with the G1 in good light. I need to do some interior shots, low available light. I know that the 5D will do very well, but I'd like to have some kind of baseline for myself to consider when/where to pull out the 5D and fast lens.

    Diane

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    pix2pixels
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    Re: 5D and G1

    Diane,
    It would be great to test them in low light, VERY low light. This is where most cameras 'show their true colours'.
    Looking forward for new tests.

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    Re: 5D and G1

    Quote Originally Posted by pix2pixels View Post
    Diane,
    It would be great to test them in low light, VERY low light. This is where most cameras 'show their true colours'.
    Looking forward for new tests.
    I agree--I know the 5D does terrific as I do a good bit of low available light with it--and mostly handheld. I've shot the G1 in pretty low light but have used MF faster lenses (f/1.8-2.8). I'm very careful when I do this and am happy with the resulting images but haven't done a comparison.

    The one thing I know though is that I'm able to MF pretty accurately with the G1--though sometimes its harder than others--and I would not be able to AF under those same circumstances even with a fast lens--and certainly not MF. There's something to be said for that LOL.

    Diane

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    Re: 5D and G1

    I have shot some interiors with the G1 and find it to work well. This is with a shutter speed in the seconds at iso 100. I just published a new post on my blog with some photos from an interior shoot here The prints I have made look great too.

    I love the manual focus ability with the camera. This is what the medium format backs need to implement.

    aaron

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    Re: 5D and G1

    Quote Originally Posted by pix2pixels View Post
    Diane,
    It would be great to test them in low light, VERY low light. This is where most cameras 'show their true colours'.
    Looking forward for new tests.
    I did something like that back in November. Maybe it can work as something complimentary to what Diane will present:

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=30041763

    Here is an image from that post:


    Maybe I wouldn't judge the colors from that, there were no color profiles involved.

    regards,

    --
    Jonas

  6. #6
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    Re: 5D and G1

    Thank you Jonas,

    Judging from the screen resolution images, it looks that from ISO 5-600, the G1 gets noisy.

    What is your opinion, looking at the G1 originals?

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    Re: 5D and G1

    Quote Originally Posted by pix2pixels View Post
    What is your opinion, looking at the G1 originals?
    You're welcome.
    My opinion is that the G1 is a daylight camera, but a very nice daylight camera. One can take snaps at ISO800 but not anything serious. That's me.

    Did you follow the link? The discussion there isn't very long but gets to the point, I think. Let's see what Diane presents, and then we have all the tests done by review sites. What is your concern, or planned application?

    regards, /Jonas

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    pix2pixels
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    Re: 5D and G1

    I noticed the blue channel that was VERY noisy.

    All CMOS based cameras are daylight balanced or better said, optimised for ~5000K degrees.

    I have been using recently for a feature film the RED ONE camera. I shot everything balanced for daylight (HMI, kinoflos... CFL). Sometimes if I wanted a setup to be warmer, I used CTB filters on some of the lights and set the white balance higher than 5000.

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    Re: 5D and G1

    One thing I can say about the G1 is the color accuracy seems to be very favorable compared to a lot of other cameras. It even holds them better than many cameras at the higher ISO vallues. Even in the ISO comparison above. While the G1 certainly displays more noise than the 5D, it holds colors more accurately throughout the range. The G1 keeps the red color pretty close to the same from ISO 100 through ISO 400 before the colors shift (slightly.) The 5D shows a more drastic color shift to my eyes between ISO 100 and ISO 200. I don't have any technical data or anything but comparing the colors by eye seems to give the G1 an advantage in that aspect.
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    Re: 5D and G1

    I did some few shots on tripod and handheld in our very dark library. I used the same Tamron 28-75 and the 14-45 and the FD 24/2.8. Yes, the 5D has a wonderful tonality with available light--the difference in DR is apparent IF one puts them side by side. But, OTOH, I learned some interesting things. At 14/28, ISO 400--the G1 was able to focus accurately and the 5D didn't appear to be able to focus as accurately. It didn't hunt, but the image is less sharp, less in sharp focus generally (there are lots of textures and details in the room so it gives a good opportunity to look closely side by side). I gave the 5D benefit of the doubt and put my very good copy of the 24-70L on and repeated at 28mm. I would say its very close to a tie--with the slight edge for detail to the G1 with the14-54. Who woulda' thunk it? (Not that this makes much difference, but I shot commercial interior shots for the furniture and textile industry for a number of years--with strobes. My preference for personal work is always available light).

    Yes, there is more noise at ISO400 (not bad though--VERY dark red/burgundy walls, dark wood carved detailed mantel, dark wood floors--but the rest of the room in quite light neutrals) but so easily taken care of with Noiseware Pro at 'weak noise'.

    Then--in the handheld at ISO800 I used the 28-75 at f/2.8 and the FD 24 f/2.8. Here I got a real surprise. I was able to shoot at 1/20s with the G1 without visible handshake. There was obvious handshake with the 5D. Consequently, I was able to handle the noise with Noiseware Pro and had a very usable image and couldn't use the 5D shot at all--and this was with the FD without IS. Is this the difference in mirror vibration--or what? I'll repeat again, but suspect it will come out the same. I've always believed the heavier camera gave more stability when handheld--but I've been able to handhold FD lenses on the G1 to shutter speeds that I can't with the 5D. That rather makes me wonder--because I'm using the same techniques for stability.

    So--what conclusions did I reach?? If I were to shoot the same dark interiors with available light for commercial use, I would shoot on tripod with the 5D. This would be primarily for that extra dollop of tonality that the 5D gives. However, I don't think I would be afraid to carry the G1 with a faster lens (that's an issue now unless you use MF lenses) and go up to ISO800. That's totally personal--I always process every RAW shot--sometimes sync like shots, but each one gets touched. Yes, there's more noise--but there are other pluses. My preference for low light would be tripod work with lower ISOs--but that's not always possible. This was real world shooting and it was a good comparison. I feel better about the strong points of the G1 and its weak points. One of those weaker points is that I don't think the G1 RAW files will take as much massaging--not 'saving' but just pushing around but generally I don't feel I have to do that too much, but I always 'tweak'. Compromises always, but I feel more confident with the G1, but feel more need of some good fast m4/3rds primes.

    Diane
    Last edited by Diane B; 22nd April 2009 at 06:16.

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    Re: 5D and G1

    [QUOTE=HiredArm;93535]One thing I can say about the G1 is the color accuracy seems to be very favorable compared to a lot of other cameras. [QUOTE]

    Just read this after I posted. I've been really favorably impressed with the G1 colors. When I moved years ago from the Oly E10 to the Canon D60 and 30, I felt the Canon colors were a bit over the top (Canon blues esp) and reds were difficult. At that time once C1 became available, I used it for all reds particularly because they were so difficult. Things are much better and with camera profiles that's improved a lot. Still--I find I really like the G1 colors--I use AWB all the time, shoot in RAW so can adjust those, but all things being equal, often prefer them.

    Diane

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    Re: 5D and G1

    I agree and I moved from a Canon 300D to a G1 for my primary camera. Yes it has a smaller sensor and yes the lens choices are fewer. I really like the flexibility in the G1 platform. I've been really impressed with the IQ for my needs and purposes (not the at the Canon ones were bad at all.) I prefer the flexibility of the G1 and actually have been taking it out with me which is something I stopped doing with the Canon more recently mostly because of size and convenience.
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    Re: 5D and G1

    Quote Originally Posted by pix2pixels View Post
    I noticed the blue channel that was VERY noisy.
    All CMOS based cameras are daylight balanced or better said, optimised for ~5000K degrees.
    So it is and that's why I leave the WB set to 5.500K (so the RGB histogram shows the exposure per channel reasonably well)

    As I said, I performed the ISO test as I was curious. The shady light is a reality when at pubs and clubs and out in the evening streets.

    Quote Originally Posted by pix2pixels View Post
    I have been using recently for a feature film the RED ONE camera. I shot everything balanced for daylight (HMI, kinoflos... CFL). Sometimes if I wanted a setup to be warmer, I used CTB filters on some of the lights and set the white balance higher than 5000.
    OK, I guess you are investigating movie possibilities for the GH1 then.

    regards, /Jonas

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    Re: DOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    But, OTOH, I learned some interesting things. At 14/28, ISO 400--the G1 was able to focus accurately and the 5D didn't appear to be able to focus as accurately. It didn't hunt, but the image is less sharp, less in sharp focus generally (there are lots of textures and details in the room so it gives a good opportunity to look closely side by side). (../..)--with the slight edge for detail to the G1 with the14-54. Who woulda' thunk it?
    Hmm, methinks the inherent increased depth of field in the smaller sensor might have something to do with this.

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    Re: DOF

    Quote Originally Posted by m3photo View Post
    Hmm, methinks the inherent increased depth of field in the smaller sensor might have something to do with this.

    I don't think so. I adjusted for DOF between FF and 4/3rds. Its just not as in focus at the focal point/plane--and its not front or rear focused. I did notice that the 28-75 didn't zing right into focus, but its known for that--more difficult in low light. I suspected that it just wasn't finding focus accurately but was showing it was--though I made sure to find a good contrasty point for both. The 24-70L did go to focus immediately--as I expected it would--but bringing both into LR and comparing, one would expect at the focus point/plane that the 5D would be at least as sharp (and I've found over the years with it, that often it doesn't need much, if any, capture sharpening), but the very dark conditions seemed to play havoc with the AF--or maybe its something else (I did use the timer the second time but didn't use a remote shutter). i did say that with the 24-70L and the 14-45, I felt it was a tie for detail--but the 5D excelled in its smooth tonal gradations, handling of highlights and noise--particularly noise in shadows.

    With the handheld shots--its def. handshake--which surprised the daylight out of me. I used A--so the cameras both chose 1/20s at f/2.8 and ISO800--its quite dark. I stabilized myself, watched breathing, etc.--and I was better able to shoot with the G1 (usually on a good day, I can handhold to 1/30s in mid range with reasonably heavy lens). That really surprised me. The 5D shot is unusable and the G1 shot needs NR, but its in focus, no visible handshake.

    BTW--this doesn't mean that I still don't think that the 5D is generally the better choice for very low light handheld, but I have carried it for those kind of shots--usually a long day. If I can get good output from the G1 in similar circumstances with fast primes--even if I have to work a bit for it--that will be worth it to me for those situations.

    Diane

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    Re: DOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    (...) If I can get good output from the G1 in similar circumstances with fast primes--even if I have to work a bit for it--that will be worth it to me for those situations.

    Diane
    That's some interesting results Diane. My conclusion is that we can never ever trust what other people tell us. To me it seems as one has to do the testing oneself, all the time.
    What's true for one person doesn't need to be it for many. Thank you for posting.

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    Re: DOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
    That's some interesting results Diane. My conclusion is that we can never ever trust what other people tell us. To me it seems as one has to do the testing oneself, all the time.
    What's true for one person doesn't need to be it for many. Thank you for posting.
    I totally agree. I honestly didn't expect these results, but with a bit different situation, light a bit different, etc.--they could be different yet again. I still just love the output from the 5D, but I feel more comfortable carrying the G1 when there's that possibility of low light.

    I'm glad I bought some faster primes--wish I had bought even faster, but the 40 f/1.8 will help and of course most of us are waiting on the 20 f/1.7--and to see what Olympus will do.

    Diane

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    Re: DOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
    My conclusion is that we can never ever trust what other people tell us. To me it seems as one has to do the testing oneself, all the time.
    HI Jonas
    I completely agree with you . . . there's only one exception . . . if Diane tells you something - you better believe it!
    I've know her for a long time, and with one exception she tells it like it is!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: 5D and G1

    Diane, I can't agree more with u. I reached the same conclusions when I shot an entire wedding with G1 & Nokton 35mm 1.2 in interior light and left my D700 at home. G1 makes u work hard for good results in low light but it delivers. Below's the series shot with 35mm @ f1.2

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/2190267...7614297646834/

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    Re: 5D and G1

    Totally agree, Diane.
    Appreciate the issue and your opinion. Had this feeling but would have never dared to bring it up as may be considered sacrilege.
    The G1 rocks,- imho at lower ISO settings only, so much so, it actually questions keeping the 5d and 40d on amateur level. (if not only for the full frame capability with real wide angle lenses)

    Endre

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